Fire/Fire Tank Guide 2.0

Mephe · 02-21-2005 03:30 PM

Overview of the Fiery Aura primary:
Fire the one tanker primary that is split almost 50/50 offense/defense
Offensive powers include Blazing Aura, Burn, fiery embrace, and consume.
Useful defensive powers include Fire shield, Plasma shield, and healing flames.
Situational (junk for many) powers Temperature protection, and rise of the phoenix.

Why do many consider Fire tanks to be the most balanced tanks in the game?
As with any game/battle that rewards you by defeating a foe in combat you need either overwhelming offense or a good mix of offense and defense, the fire tank has a good balance of offense and defense. Neither the offense or defense is capped; both work hand in hand to give an efficient exp/time investment. Other tanks are almost all defense and the way COH is currently working it is just not needed in most situations. Overwhelming offense is the name of the game in most exp gaining situations. Sun Tzu would be proud.

I3 or Tanker Love fest
After I3 a lot of the complication was removed with using burn. Now you can just turn on your shields and either use BA or your attacks to keep mobs in the burn patch.
I3 also removed a lot of weaknesses (sleep/hold) that made fire tanks not so tanky.

Blazing Aura (BA):
Brawl Index(BI) = .6111 Fire to each mob in its AOE that it hits
Endurance usage per second (EPS) = .75
A blast of fire radiates (about 15-20 feet diameter) from your body and pulses every 2 seconds. This power has gone through a few tweaks since the release of the game and at each stage it has been improved. It is now at the point that most people agree its a mandatory and a near set defining power. Along with the excellent constant AOE damage for relatively low endurance, it also has the punch-voke effect to all mobs in its radius of effect. Some people claim that the punch-voke effect hits even if the fire damage misses.
Because this power has 2 very important uses for any tank I recommend this power be 6 slotted. There are 4 useful enhancements to put into this power.
Endurance recovery One SO reduces the endurance usage down to .56 (.75 / 1 + .33), this is a bit more manageable.
Accuracy One SO or 2 DOs or 4 trainings will put this power above 100% for even mobs.
Damage 6 SOs = a 200% damage increase so .6111 * 1 + 6*.333 = 1.83 BI , so if your brawl hits for 30 damage your BA will hit each mob in its AOE for 55 damage. Thats not gonna take down anything right away but this is almost like free damage.

Taunt Increase I have not seen any numbers for the taunt time of each Blazing Aura tick, but with 0 taunt increasers in this power even +3 Bosses stick around for the full burn patch. The main reason to put taunt increasers in this power would be to become a more efficient herding tank that has to jump from on group of mobs to another. Mobs outside of BAs AOE will quickly target other members of your team so its important that you round up all the mobs and keep them in the AOE. My guess would be the taunt time is equal to the tick time of BA (around 2 seconds), so even 6 SO taunt increasers would only give you about 6 seconds. I personally like to make sure all the mobs are close and have all damage in my BA.

Blazing aura is a power you can use from level 1 to level 50 and therefore I recommend it be your first power you 6 slot.

Q: How the heck am I gonna take down anything doing such low and slow damage?
A: Fire tanks even at low levels are the master of AOE death. Large groups of greens and blues in PP/Hollows/Boomtown are your best source of solo exp if you dont want to run to your missions. I personally recommend joining some larger balanced teams and doing door missions in the hollows, which to me is the most fun.

Q: Scorch has a BI of around 3 shouldnt I just slot that up instead of blazing aura?
A: You can do anything you want but I believe a fire tankers strength shows when they are solo in hazard zones or in large teams. These 2 places mean a large concentration of mobs per spawn, and therefore AOE damage will ALWAYS out damage single target damage. 3/ .611 = 5 so if you are hitting 5 or more mobs with BA you are out damaging scorch. BA also ticks every 2 seconds and scorch can only be used every 3-4 seconds. Scorch uses more endurance per second than BA does, so in all categories if you have more than 5 mobs BA is a much better attack. At low levels I feel you only have 5 slots for damage and I think all 5 would best be used in BA.

Fire shield (FS):
Fire/Smash/Lethal resist : 30%
Cold resist : 10%
Disorient protection : maxes out at 35 (mag 15?)
EPS : .41
A fiery sheath surrounds your character and protects them from the most important damage types in the game. The one change that fire shield got in I3 was the addition of disorient protection. As your fire tank gains in levels this protection increases. Previously this protection was included in healing flames and that was pretty bad, because you always had to use healing flames BEFORE you started a fight when you probably had full hit points. The amount of disorient protection you get with this power is enough to almost never have to worry about getting disoriented. I hear the new war wolves have a ranged power that can disorient if its stacked enough, but to stack it enough you would have to herd them into a pretty large group, and keep them at range.
Slotting fire shield:
The only slotting that makes sense is 6 slots of all resist. The EPS is not high enough to sacrifice the loss to resistance.
6 SOs for Fire/Smash/Lethal = 30 * 1+ 6*.2 = 66%
6 SOs for Cold = 10 * 1 + 6*.2 = 22%
6 Trainings for Fire/Smash/Lethal = 30 * 1 + 6*.05 = 39%

Q: But Mephe I thought tanks cap resistance to 90% how the heck are we suppose to get 90%?
A: Ahh yes the Fire tanker conundrum, take em down faster than they can take me down or dip into the fighting pool to give us some assistance. More about the power pools later.

Healing flames (HF):
Heals about 20%? of your HPS
Toxic resistance (New for I3!) 20% for 60 seconds(stackable!)
Recharge time = 60 seconds
Endurance per cast (EPC) = 15
How lighting yourself on fire with these special flames heals you I have no clue, personally I would have liked all incoming fire damage heals you for 60 seconds, but thats just me. This is an excellent power though. The heal helps increase your tanking potential both at low levels when your shields suck and at high levels when 50+ +3 mobs are slowly lowering your health bar. This is not a power you need to six slot right away but it one that you should 6 slot by 50.
When you do the math on this power the most heal over time is 4 heals + 2 recharge + perma haste or 3 heals + 3 recharge.
I do not recommend putting endurance reduction in this power because the recharge time is too long to worry about 15 end.

Temperature protection
Fire resistance 20%
Cold resistance 10%
Auto power
Wow each power set needs a stinker and this is Fiery Auras stinker. The fire protection is only useful when both your fire and plasma shields are down because with those shields you have capped fire resistance. The 10% cold resistance would be nice if a larger percentage of mobs did cold damage. As the game is now post I3 pre I4 I see no reason to take this power. The only reason somebody would have to take this power is if pre level 22 they wanted more fire protection (before they can get SOs to cap fire) and they at 24 respeced out the power. I would not even advise in doing that.

Q: Why dont the devs fixs this obviously bad power?
A: Well not being a dev I dont know, but play a Fire Tank and then play a Mind/Emp controller and tell me Fire tanks need more help. Dont forget to change your forum handle because burn wont have anything on the flames you will be catchin.

Consume:
BI 1.111 fire AOE
Recharge 180 seconds
EPC 2
You send out a blast of fire about 15-20 feet around you and all hit by this fire fuel your endurance for more attacks. Even without any endurance increasers in this power hitting 3 even con mobs will refill your entire endurance bar. The only downside to this power is the horribly long recharge time. If this recharge time was 90 seconds I would say Fire tanks dont need stamina, but at 180 seconds you just cant get it to recharge fast enough to fuel your endurance usage once you have all your toggles. How do I know this? I went 33 levels on my fire tank without Stamina only using Haste and Consume to refill my endurance. I didnt use BA at all (back then it was just damage), and I had to watch my endurance usage all the time. Once they allowed respecs I picked up stamina and I have to say its a big relief. I still can easily run my endurance down, but with consume 3 slotted and perma haste I have never run out since getting and 6 slotting stamina. I dont have ANY endurance reductions in my powers except for acrobatics. There is a good reason everybody loves the epic power conserve power and thats because the games pace picks up with the more endurance you have. Is endurance management a fun part of the game? Personally I like the faster pace and I dont think managing endurance adds to the games challenge other than figuring out how to fit stamina into your build. Expect some major changes to endurance in the future of COH, the pace of the game helps differentiate it from other MMOGs.
Slotting for consume:
1 SO Slot for ACC or 2 DOS or 4 Trainings
All other slots should go into rechange.
You can put endurance recovery increasers in here for good effect, but you should always have so many mobs around you at all times that its just over kill.

Q I see that consume does AOE damage, should I slot damage into it?
A You can but that would be a Bad Idea. Damage on this power is low and its use is really to give you end not to hurt anybody. But with fiery embrace and build up this can do some nice AOE damage; just dont slot it for damage!

Plasma shield:
Energy/Neg/Fire: 32.5%
Hold/Sleep protection : variable but they max out at 35(15 mag?)
EPS: .41
The other set defining shield for fire tanks. I3 turned this shield into a sometimes useful shield into a must have it or you arent a tank shield. The addition of sleep and hold protection to the fire aura set was a godsend. Prior to I3 anything with a sleep power would be near insta death for fire tanks and thus we became the masters of cherry pickin street mobs in hazard zones. This lead to my eventual shelving of my fire tank until after I3 was released. In that time I took a level 1 Ill/Rad troller to 43! I imagine if this shield was like it is now prior to I3 I would have a level 50 fire tank now. Life is cruel sometimes.
Slotting plasma shield:
6 resistance SOS = 32.5 * 1+6*.2 = 71.5%
Notice with fire shield you now have 66%+71.5% = 137.5% to fire and thus temperature protection is just junk.
This power should be 6 slotted around level 30 because thats when you start running into a lot more energy attacks. Without the 71% resistance to those attacks Ritki will chew you up and spit you out at range.

Q: Should I get this power at level 12?
A: Tough question, and the short answer is yes. Its a good power and the sleep/hold protection will help ya out in those rare cases you have to fight things pre level 22 that do sleep or holds. Dropping your shields in a battle is almost like death because in most cases you will have 10+ mobs all wailing on you. If you dont think you need sleep/hold protection before 22 then I say hold off until your 20s, but no later.

Burn(Burn or NerfFireTanksNowClubPosterChild)
BI: estimated at .2777, but in 10 seconds it does about 45 ticks
BI@10 seconds = 12.5!
BIper second (BIPS)= 1.25
End cost = 7.5
Rechange = 10 seconds
Base ACC (unenhanceable = 95%) (speculation)
Burn.. wow burn. It is the set defining power for fiery aura. Without this power the whole set would be just another crummy scrapper secondary, worse in total defense and usage than any other scrapper secondary. Notice the BI of 12.5, this is like a blaster level 32 power but it takes 10 seconds to do that damage, so when you look at damage per second its not all that exciting and thats where our defenses are required. In order to get a mob to sit out the total 12.5 you gotta make sure they hang out in the burn patch for 10 seconds. In that time they are going to be using all their powers to send you to the hospital. The 95% accuracy means that this power is great for +1s, +2s but after that not so good. You cant add accuracy to this power so Fire tanks have a sweet spot of herding +1 minions/lieuts and using burn to melt em all away. Most people believe that this power is a summon (cast it in the water and you will hear a splash), and that when you summon one if another was already there it will disappear. Phantom army has much the same behavior so its a reasonable theory.
Slotting:
6 damage and anything else is a Bad Idea.
Once you get this power at 18 (and you should get it at 18, all slots until 23 should go into this power. Its convenient that at 22 you can put damage SOs in this power and your path to the fire side will be complete.

Q: If burn is so good wont it be nerfed in the future?
A: Short answer is no clue, I am not a dev. IMHO I dont think so; it has already received a large nerf in I1, and a couple of tried and failed nerfs in I2 and I3. I think the devs are happy with how this power works for the time being. The BIPS is I think lower than what any good scrapper can do for 10 seconds (not AOE though) and you have to compare our damage output to that of a scrapper because we certainly dont have the defenses to justify being called a tank.

Q In the 1.0 guide you had a large section about using burn. How do I use it now?
A Burn is now much easier to use. Here is the order
See a group of evil mobs that you think you can tank for 30 seconds.
Turn on BA, FS, and PS.
Run twords them.
Drop burn when they are right next to you.
If you want you can use taunt but its not really needed.
If anybody is still standing drop burn again.
No more healing flames, no more provoke. Easy.

Fiery Embrace (FE):
+100%damage fire 30seconds
+100%damage non fire 10 seconds
Recharge: 180 seconds
Endurance 11.5
Youre cooking with gas now. A buildup like power that fits better with the fire tanks burn em over time approach. The major hindrance to this power is it has no effect on burn. Yeah burn doesnt need much help but with the only in set benefit to BA, RotP and consume its sorta lacking that you really need this power oomph. Its sorta like an expensive slow to recharge no accuracy expensive buildup if you dont have fire attacks, and therefore you should only get this power if your secondary is fire. Guess what this guide is for Fire/Fire so we will be using it in our builds.
Slotting: Anywhere from 0 to 6 recharge reduction slots is useful depending on how much you want to use your secondary attacks.
6 SO recharge + perma haste = FE up every 48.64, thats 18.64 seconds after the effect goes off that its back up. Not perma but not to shabby. To put it in perspective its like adding 3 damage SOs to all your fire powers while its up. This combined with build up and your secondaries will make you a reliable scrapper in a fast moving team.

Rise of the Phoenix (RotP):
BI 4.0268 (fire)
Recharge: 300 seconds
Umm yeah if it wasnt for the fact that we dont care about debt at 50 I would say this is another stinker in the fiery Aura. Any power that requires debt in order to function is a bad one in my book. Awakens are easy to come by and dont cost a precious power slot. I do hear the animation is nice on this power. I3 did add in a couple of needed changes to this power. 1 for a few seconds after you use it you are immune to all damage. Enough time to turn on your toggles and get debt again from the things that just killed you. 2 It will knock back and disorients foes around you (enough to piss em off so they come after you again).
Slots: If you slot this power you must know something nobody else knows about it.
Put a heal in the default slot. If you have to put a recharge in the slot you are dying too much, time to rethink what you are doing.

So thats all the fiery aura powers. Next up the Fire melee powers

Scorch:
BI: 2.3333 + 0-5*.2778 (avg of 3.0) fire
Recharge: 3 seconds, Activation of 2 (so you can never use it faster than every 2 seconds)
EPC: 6.5
Scorch is not a bad starting power, and for any other primary it would be good to slot it up. But minor/moderate damage single target attacks are not what we want as a fire tank. Blazing aura at lower levels does the damage job much better for cheaper and Incinerate at higher levels does the job much better.
Slotting:
1 default slot stick an ACC in it.

Fire sword:
BI: 1.3889 lethal + 2.2778 fire + 0-5*.2778 = 4.4 avg BI
Recharge = 6, Act = 2
EPC: 10
An expensive not so good damage single target attack, yuck. If you want a sword go make a Katana or Broadsword scrapper.
Slotting:
You actually got this power? Respec it out at 23 and get something usefull.

Taunt:
AutoHit
EPC free?
Recharge ?
Prior to I3 this power was a single target accuracy checked taunt. The devs saw that almost no tank took this power and instead they took the AOE version in a power pool! Yes, the AT defining power (from the teams point of view) was in a power pool. No longer do we have to take provoke. Taunt is now AOE and auto hit. The animation for the power is kinda long, but livable. If you dont have BA you have to use this power to keep mobs in your burn patch.
Slotting: Maybe just the default if you are more scrapper oriented, if more tank oriented 6 slotted will make any team happy and debt free.
Taunt durations are nice, recharges are of minimal effect because of the animation time, and range increasers are kinda nice.

Combustion:
BI: 1.3889 fire + 8*.2778 fire = 3.6113 AOE
Recharge: 12 seconds, Act 3
EPC: 13
Ahh the first AOE in the AOE heavy secondary, and its . GOOD! It has a larger radius, higher BI and lower cost than spine burst! The big downside is that over half of the damage is done via the DOT portion of the attack so it takes 8 seconds or so to do full damage. At higher levels the healing rate of large hit point mobs sorta dulls the effect of this power. The other problem with this power is that BA and burn cover DOT damage pretty well so this is just more damage on the stack. If you pick this power up at level 10 you will not be so happy with it because you will focus on the 1.3889 number and not the DOTs. Much like BA it requires 3 or more mobs around you to really make it shine. In your late 30s is a good time to get and 6 slot this power.
Slotting:
1 ACC SO, 5 Damage

Breath of Fire (BoF)
BI 1.8889*2 Fire + 0-5*.2778 = 4.46 avg Fire Cone
Rng: 10
Recharge 16
EPC: 14.5
This power does not get many high marks among fire tanks. The cone range is pretty small and usually mobs will be around you and not very conducive to cone attacks. I guess in some herding situations this power could do a lot of damage real fast for pretty cheap but most fire tanks skip this power.
Slotting: If you get this power 1 Acc 5 Damage would be best.

Build Up(BU)
+100% damage
+50% Acc
Recharge: 90
Duration 10
Ahh build up, the stats above pretty much say it all. Its a nice power to increase 1 or 2 powers and then you wait until the next mob to take em down. Until your 40s alpha strikes are not what you do so this power can be put off for a long to or forever with out much impact to your effectiveness.
Slotting: recharge SOs are the only ones that make any sense.
6 Recharge SOs + perma haste = up every 24.32 seconds or so.

Fire sword circle (FSC)
BI: 2.1556 fire + 2.1556 lethal + 0-5*.2778 fire = 5.0 AOE!
Recharge: 20
EPC: 26.5
With great power comes great endurance cost! ¼ of your bar will have you gasping for air pretty quick. This is a great Alpha strike power once you have it 6 slotted and can use either FE or build up (or both!). 5.0 BI + FE(5.0) + BU(5.0)+5 Damage SO(8.325) = 16.665 BI. I dont know if thats enough to take down an even con minion but it looks pretty close, and if its not and you have BA it too gets the +200% damage from FE and BU.
Slotting 1 ACC 5 Damage

Incinerate:
BI .6944*10 = 6.944 Single Fire
Recharge: 10
EPC: 10
Now this is a single target attack. It is DOT (anybody know how long it takes to do the 10 ticks?) but its a very efficient one for putting a little bita extra cookin on a boss/AV/Monster. Its all fire damage so it can take advantage of the 30 second duration of FE.
Slotting:
1 Acc 5 damage

Greater Fire sword (GFS)
BI: 2.7778 Lethal + 4.0 Fire + 0-5*.5556 = 8.1668 Single AVG
Recharge 12
EPC: 18.5
This is the end of the Fire secondary, you cant get this till 38, is it worth it? Its that old damage now for a high cost or DOT for cheap. If you find you team with a lot of defenders that increase your endurance recovery this is a great power to get. If you solo you are much more efficient with the DOT powers. Just like incinerate this is a good power for bosses/AVs/Monsters.
Slotting
1 Acc 5 Damage

Power pools that are useful to a Fire Tank:
Fitness: Stamina is I am afraid to say required to be efficient. The good news is we have 4 stinker powers that we dont want to take. Here is the match behind why stamina is needed for a fire tank: (Courtesy of docbuzzard)
End Regen from 6 slotted stamina: 2.91
Toggles running and cost:
Acrobatics (1 end red SO) .24
Combat Jumping .08
Fire Shield .41
Plasma Shield .41
Tough .23
Weave .27
Blazing Aura (1 end red SO) .62
Usage: 2.26/sec
Net recovery: .6 end/sec This illustrates the need for consume or even conserve power to get enough end to use your attacks. The accolades for +5 end (atlas and portal jockey) are also important to increase your end recovery rate.

Fighting: Tough and Weave are very useful in bringing up our defenses to a minimal tanker level.
Tough base resist to smash/lethal = 20% with 1 SO = 24% + 66%(FS) = 90% (cap)
Weave base def to all but AOE/Cone = 12.5% with 6 SOs = 27.5%

Leaping: Super jump is a very nice travel power, but the real reason leaping is good is because of acrobatics. The fire tank has no inherent protection to knockdown. Thats bad.
Combat Jumping: cheap+ 5% def + Immobility resistance+ unlocks SJ
Super Jump (SJ): fast, fun and easy to use toggle.
Acrobatics: high resistance to knockdowns and ok resistance to hold (stacks with PS?)

Speed: Haste is the reason we dip into this pool at all. Haste adds 2 SO recharge reducers to every power while up. With 5 GREEN SOs in haste its up all the time.
Haste: 5% def

Recap of defense a fire tank can have in there late 30s with all toggles on:
FS+Tough+PS = Fire/Smash/Lethal = 90%
PS = Energy/Neg = 71.5%
FS = Cold = 22%
Def
CJ 1 SO = 6%
Haste = 5%
Weave + 6 SO = 27.5%
= 38.5%
So even minions have about an 11.5% chance to hit you, and when they do they will not do much because of our resistances.
Healing flames when fully slotted 4heal/2rechage + haste = 50% health every 25 seconds.
The above defenses should enable a smart fire tank to take on very large amounts of even to +3 mobs just what every 8 man team will want you to do!

Epic power pools:
Fire has the looks but comes up short in usefulness for a fire tank. The only power pool that would be good (besides for flavor) is the Energy power pool. And the only reason you want the energy power pool is because of conserve power.
Patriot_of_War states:
It works like this, by the time your endo goes down to 25 percent, you hit consume to get to full. then you come back to the halfway mark and you can hit conserve power and your bar will climb while relentlessly launching your attacks. then by the time conserve power wears off the consume is recharged and so forth.
So there you have a way to non stop attack at level 43. Very interesting indeed.

My build for a more defensive oriented Fire tank.
Archetype: Tanker
Primary Powers - Defense : Fiery Aura
Secondary Powers - Melee : Fiery Melee
Slot[01] Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Blazing Aura /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Levels 3,3,5,5,7
Slot[02] Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Scorch /Acc
Slot[03] Level 2 : Healing Flames /Rchg,Heal,Heal,Heal,Heal,Heal
Levels 13,13,15,15,17
Slot[04] Level 4 : Fire Shield /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Levels 7,9,9,11,11
Slot[05] Level 6 : Combat Jumping /DefBuf
Slot[06] Level 8 : Consume(T) /Acc,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Levels 17,42,43,45,45
Slot[07] Level 10 : Boxing /Acc
Slot[08] Level 12 : Swift /Run
Slot[09] Level 14 : Super Jump /Jump
Slot[10] Level 16 : Taunt /Taunt
Slot[11] Level 18 : Burn(T) /Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Levels 19,19,21,21,23
Slot[12] Level 20 : Plasma Shield /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Levels 23,25,25,31,31
Slot[13] Level 22 : Acrobatics /EndRdx
Slot[14] Level 24 : Health /Heal
Slot[15] Level 26 : Stamina /EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec
Levels 27,27,29,29,31
Slot[16] Level 28 : Tough /DamRes
Slot[17] Level 30 : Weave /DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf
Levels 34,34,36,36,36
Slot[18] Level 32 : Hasten /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Levels 33,33,33,34
Slot[19] Level 35 : Fire Sword Circle(T) /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Levels 37,37,37,39,39
Slot[20] Level 38 : Incinerate /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Levels 39,40,40,40,42
Slot[21] Level 41 : Fiery Embrace /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Levels 42,43,43,45,46
Slot[22] Level 44 : Build Up /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Levels 46,46,50
Slot[23] Level 47 : Combustion /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Levels 48,48,48,50,50
Slot[24] Level 49 : Rise Of The Phoenix /Heal

Some important ideas to understand:

But Mephe, you dont really get any fire attacks until level 35!
Burn and Blazing aura are far and away your most damaging attacks OVER TIME. The over time part is key because that means you have to sit in the middle of a bunch of mobs with only one thing on their mind : Make sure you are utilizing your health insurance benefits. Yes thats right all evil in COH stems from the HMO that runs the Paragon city hospitals (much like the real world). In order to keep our benefits costs down (lord knows the blasters are not helping!) its up to us tanks to make sure we dont waste money in the hospital. So our defenses need to be maxed out ASAP.

At level 33 I no longer have 2 of my attacks that I had before: fire sword circle and combustion. Why? Well the biggest reason is lack of slots. I want to concentrate on being able to tank. 6 slotting 2 attacks (BA and Burn) is pretty endurance efficient so thats all I can spare until level 36.

So um why do you have consume at level 10, when you have stamina at 26?
Consume is a nice power to have and after going without it in a previous respec I decided that without the slots to put in combustion the utility uses of consume (even 2 slotted until 39) is very useful. Six slotted stamina pays for your toggles and when burning even level minions you wont have much want for end. But with tough and weave and a 6 slotted healing flames you can tank higher level bosses, AVs and monsters. These fights will drop your end bar because you will be using burn and healing flames over and over. With consume ready to go when you need it you can also cycle in scorch and boxing to add a bit of spice to the boss fight. If you are paying attention consume will make sure you never have end troubles again.

What no epic pool? Are you insane?
Yes I have no epic pool. People ask me if I an insane all the time I wonder if I should worry. In my opinion the epic pools for tanks are rather useless relative to the other powers we can pick. A defensive pool heavy fire tank is already low on power picks so I cant imagine wasting a power on a single target hold or a ranged damage power when I can get fiery embrace and build up to help out my 4 already six slotted attacks. I have taunt for ranged usage, so I am not too worried about ranged attackers picking off other members of the team.

So is the above build the only way to make a fire/fire tank?
YES! You have no free will its all an illusion. Whoops flashback from Sunday church. Of course you dont have to use the above build; its very tank/defensive with just enough damage so you can solo any of your missions. But, its not a big damage dealer in a fast moving team until the late 40s. Its takes time to orient a group just right, fire off burn, and wait for them to stop smoking. Using FSC and combustion with fiery embrace and or buildup is much quicker when you have nova happy blasters.

I want a fire scrapper like I had pre issue 3, can it be done?
Sure, and this time I even made you a hero plan for it.
Archetype: Tanker
Primary Powers - Defense : Fiery Aura
Secondary Powers - Melee : Fiery Melee
Slot[01] Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Blazing Aura /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Levels 3,3,5,5,7
Slot[02] Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Scorch /Acc
Slot[03] Level 2 : Fire Shield /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Levels 7,9,9,11,11
Slot[04] Level 4 : Healing Flames /Heal,Heal,Heal
Levels 17,17
Slot[05] Level 6 : Hurdle /Jump
Slot[06] Level 8 : Consume(T) /Acc,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Levels 33,39,42,50
Slot[07] Level 10 : Combustion /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Levels 36,36,36,36,36
Slot[08] Level 12 : Hasten /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Levels 13,13,15,15
Slot[09] Level 14 : Super Speed /Run
Slot[10] Level 16 : Health /Heal
Slot[11] Level 18 : Burn(T) /Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Levels 19,19,21,21,23
Slot[12] Level 20 : Stamina /EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec
Levels 23,25,25,27,27
Slot[13] Level 22 : Plasma Shield /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Levels 29,29,31,31,31
Slot[14] Level 24 : Build Up /Rchg
Slot[15] Level 26 : Fiery Embrace /Rchg
Slot[16] Level 28 : Fire Sword Circle(T) /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Levels 33,33,33,33,33
Slot[17] Level 30 : Taunt /Taunt (with the changes on test BA should hold agro for burn)
Slot[18] Level 32 : Rise Of The Phoenix /Rchg
Slot[19] Level 35 : Incinerate /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Levels 36,39,39,39,39
Slot[20] Level 38 : Greater Fire Sword /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Levels 39,42,42,42,42
Slot[21] Level 41 : Char /Acc,Hold,Hold
Levels 42,45
Slot[22] Level 44 : Fireblast (Fight) /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Levels 45,45,45,45,45
Slot[23] Level 47 : Fireball / Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Levels 48,48,48,50,50
Slot[24] Level 49 : Stealth /Empty

This build does without tough/weave and adds more attacks (even fireball!) earlier in the build. This build should be used like a scrapper because your defenses are about the same as one! You only hit the resistance cap on fire and your only defense comes from haste (5%) and stealth (7.5%) for a total of 12.5%. Endurance usage is greatly increased in the short term so consume becomes pretty important (fire off Fiery+buildup+FSC+combustion+fireball+burn and you will be sucking wind real quick even with stamina six slotted). Your single target power is pretty good also with (fiery+buildup+incinerate+fireblast+GFS) This build should be able to hang with any spines/inv build out their.

Hey numbnuts! You put Taunt after burn! I thought you said you have to use taunt before burn will work.
Why you little. Oh yeah thats really me asking these questions (hm.. I bet a shrink would be really interested in my self to self conversations) Ahhem! The new punch voke code seems to be in one word: amazing. Taunt is great for being a good team tank that makes sure no mob is left with high self esteem, but if you are more of a scrapper you dont need it as long as you start off your fights with an AOE power. On test they added BA and consume to the list of powers that do punch-voke so just running BA will ensure the mobs sit tight while you cook the bottom of their feet. Plenty of agro for any scraptanker (some times it may be too much, and thats why you have healing flames 3 slotted).

So now I have a lot of damage powers, pretty good defenses, bring on the AVs!
I dont think so. Think of yourself as a scraptanker. Certain scrapper builds have much better staying power than you do. You got no knockdown protection, your smash/lethal resist is topped out at about 72% and you have almost no defense. You have more HPs than a scrapper, but your attacks costs more and do less damage. Your attacks also do punchvoke so without another tank on the team you may be getting more agro than you can handle. But with all those attacks it should be fun, just make sure all your heath care benefits are paid up. Fast arresting lots of minions is your main job.

What should I kill at each level?
1-6 - do your missions!
7-12 - go to perez park or the hollows and fight large packs of greens and maybe blues solo, and/or do missions. Watch out for bosses, they can kill you fast.
13-17 boomtown/hollows greens/blues and missions. Again bosses will kill you in most cases.
18-20 - boomtown, bosses cry when they see you, minions melt.
21-23 zombies in DA
23-28 yellow/orange captains in TV This is when you feel most uber, relex that will pass soon.
29-30 zombies in red zone of DA. Or freaks in TV. Tank smashers are nasty though, so I chose DA. Captain groups are up to 28 AFAIK.
30 manticore TF is pretty hard at this level, but with a good group or SKing you should get good exp.
31 39 you can get into Creys but its nothing like TV or DA so watch your back. 6 slotted plasma shield is required here. Ritki monkey exp is worthless.
30-35 Brickstown is pretty good for easy exp but it is getting pretty crowded. Prisoner exp is worthless.
39 + PI is pretty easy at 39 stick close to the ferry and melt away some nemesis, watch out for carnies and their PSI damage though.
41+ Ritki crash site hazard zone spawns and its empty. If you have good tactics this is the place to go.
41+ Firebase zulu hazard zone spawns and its empty. Much like the crash site but a bit easier to get to.
40+ missions, especially the portal ones spawn large spawns and since you set your mission diff to unyielding these are good exp. Add a few teammates for even more fun.

22+ - Large 8 man indoor missions are now great fun. You are a useful tank (thanks to your SOs) and with your team mates and mass kills you can rake in the exp pretty well. Much more fun that street grinding. For max mission exp set your missions to unyielding.

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Rhysem · 02-21-2005 11:48 PM

Thought I'd toss this out:

I seem to get 2 burn patches down at once with no problem when I have hasten up. Numbers above mobs increase from dense to ungodly dense during the brief overlap, and I get 2 "immob free" burn buffs on my bar.

Maybe I'll waste some of my precious cash (hah! Guess who has a lvl 50 blaster?) on recharge redux and test out a max recharge burn to try to settle that question tomorrow.

TheScruple · 02-22-2005 12:54 AM

After spending most of my post-respec (level 24) time in Terra Volta, I can say with great confidence that Sky Raider Captain groups go up to 29.

There is one U-shaped warehouse in particular where they spawn all around, and at both ends of the U, they fight with Freak Tanks. Should be in the Savage Waste Disposal area of the zone, if my memory serves me right.

On a side note, the level they spawn at seems to depend on who else is in the area, the spawns went from 29 to 27 after a level 26 Spines scrapper infringed upon my hunting territory. If you, the level 29 fire tank, are alone in the area, you should have no trouble finding some nice fleshy groups of Sky Raider Captains, ripe for burnination.

Deatheven13 · 02-22-2005 01:49 AM

andi thought firey embrace only did +60% dmg? just curious ive seen different numbers for it ... nice guide I did pretty much the same with mine except on my last respec ive gone pretty different ... mostly character things and dropping fighting

energy mastery is very nice even if just for conserve power ... I dont have consume although I do plan to reget it for those (oh crap) situations but for the most part conserve power serves me well and keeps me in combustion and greater fireswords

Quicken · 02-22-2005 05:48 AM

Hi - I'm relatively new to the "Fire/Fire Tanker".

Instead of using "Combat Jumping", and then going for Acrobatics for the knockdown protection, I use "Hover" so I could get access to "Fly".

"Hover" doesn't give knockdown protection - but instead of being knocked down, you do a little "loop-de-loop" and can attack immediately. So you lose 1 second or so for that animation, instead of 5 to 7 for being knocked on your butt and having to get back up. I can live with that.

The killer question - Will "Burn" work with Hover running, or do you have to have both feet firmly on the ground ?

If Hover negates using Burn, I'll have to respec (once I do the mission) to using Combat Jumping / Super Leap / Acrobatics for knockdown protection. Which is a pity, since "Fly" fits my character concept, and super leap only vaguely fits it.

Anyone know if Hover negates using Burn ?

Thanks

Alyssa_NA · 02-22-2005 06:26 AM

If you're not on the ground, it negates Burn.

Rhysem · 02-22-2005 07:11 AM

More accuratly, if you aren't on the ground you can't drop a burn. Once it's down you can move as you like.

Iskallt · 02-22-2005 07:13 AM

5 star guide Mephe. Thanks. Been following much of the 1.0 guide so far and im doing pretty good. Just hit TV last night and its more fun than i had last time i was there with my ice/ice blaster.

ThunderMace · 02-22-2005 08:40 AM

Great Update Mephe! was hoping you'd do this. Thanks! (A question about the hover thing earlier, has anyone that wants to be a flying Fire tank have a bind to do the Hover-drop-burn-hover thing? IS it even possible? to bind that?)

SuperSolar-Fire/SS H.A.C.S. -Virtue
Capt. Solar-Inv/Fire Tank-Liberty
PowerStrike-Fire/Mace Tank-Virtue
Mighty Marvel-PeaceBringer-Virtue
Power X -Claws/Fire Scrapper-Virtue

Rhysem · 02-22-2005 09:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Great Update Mephe! was hoping you'd do this. Thanks! (A question about the hover thing earlier, has anyone that wants to be a flying Fire tank have a bind to do the Hover-drop-burn-hover thing? IS it even possible? to bind that?)

[/ QUOTE ]

It'd be pretty easy to do if you knew you wanted to restore hover after a burn. A bind like... (and my syntax is off becuase I don't have any ability to look up the right command names)

bind rshift "+toggleoff hover"

might do what you're looking for. You'd have to hit the shift key and then while you have it down hit whatever key you use for burn. (bind something near shift to powexec_name burn maybe?)

Alternatly, you might be able to use a dual-file setup to have it do something like:

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
drop_burn.txt:

bind rshift "+toggleoff hover$$bind_load_file hover_burn.txt"

hover_burn.txt:

bind rshift "powexec_name burn$$powexec_queue hover$$bind_load_file drop_burn.txt"
</pre><hr />

but I haven't tried anything like that (for one thing, I don't have flight to try it, tho I do have a respec so I could copy to test to try). If that worked, you'd hit&hold shift till you hit the ground and passed the "I'm really landed", then release it and it'll activate burn, followed by re-hovering.

It'd take some skill to get the timing down tho.

docbuzzard · 02-22-2005 11:20 AM

Nice guide. About the only objection I could suggest is that you have over slotted build up. There is generally litle reason to use fiery embrace and build up simultaneously since all your attacks should be at 266% boost (5 damage). With FE and BU, you go well above the cap to 466%, while the cap is just 400% of base damage, thus the second power is only adding 33% boost. Having just one or the other available at any given time is a better idea. If this is your goal, and you have six slotted FE with hasten, the base slot in build up will allow it to synch. Not sure where you'd put the freed up slots, maybe health or scorch.

Too many alts to list.

Mephe · 02-23-2005 12:07 PM

This thread below has some interesting information about burn and putting recharges in it. It seems most now agree burn can be stacked. Personally I thought it did because it seems to have more floating numbers for the overlap time you get with haste.

Burn math

Because the above post will eventually get auto deleted some day I will give a summation:
With haste the most DPS is 4 damage and 2 recharge.
Without hast the most DPS is 3 damage and 3 recharge.
(much like any controller summoned pet, its all the same math)
The biggest drawbacks are:
Increased endurace usage to get increased DPS and
Decreased amount of time you can use for other powers like secondary attacks, healing flames etc.

Personally I think 6 damage is best but the good news is you have options that can work with your style.

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Bobartig · 02-23-2005 03:00 PM

Something like 2 health, and 2 End Recovery in RotP will ensure that you rise with 90%+ health and endo. Its good for trials and TF's, and missions set to Invincible in a team of 8 in the shard.

icaros · 02-23-2005 05:31 PM

great guide i am following it - just started a new fire/fire tanker and got him to lvl 10 in no time and its great fun!

question about your build:

why do you propose boxing at 10? you could move it to lvl 26 and therefore get stamina by 24 - or is there a drawback?

i don't feel i am missing an extra single target attack at 10 and would like to know if there is some special reason u put it at 10 and not at e.g. 26 (tough with 28 fits that perfectly).

that could then be:
lvl 10 taunt
lvl 12 swift (i think i'll go for hurdle :P)
lvl 14 ss
lvl 16 health
lvl 18 burn
lvl 20 plasma shield
lvl 22 acrobatics
lvl 24 stamina
lvl 26 boxing
lvl 28 tough
..and so on..

i am aware i have to be carefull with taunt at 10, cause we still are a little bit squishier than later on, but as i obviously am already doing some tanking for grps (even if its only duoing with a blaster and blazing aura lets some mobs get free and start smacking him) i think it would be more fun than boxing which i wont really use anyway.

thanks for your advice!

Alyssa_NA · 02-23-2005 11:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
great guide i am following it - just started a new fire/fire tanker and got him to lvl 10 in no time and its great fun!

question about your build:

why do you propose boxing at 10? you could move it to lvl 26 and therefore get stamina by 24 - or is there a drawback?

[/ QUOTE ]

Drawbacks are as follows:

At level 22, you start facing alot of foes that do more damage, and hence, you need more resistance to smash/lethal.

I last exponentially longer against large herds of Freaks and Sky Raiders with Tough than without. About this time, you'll also want Stamina, since running acro, FS, PS, and CJ actually puts you at a deficit of endurance when you start burning on top of those toggles.

By exponential, I mean 10-20 minutes longer than without Tough.

Running without Acro is very, very bad post-20 or so. KD is horrid and present in about 90% of your foes (mostly luteys and bosses).

Running without Stamina after 24-ish makes you VERY susceptible to toggle drops, especially when facing end-draining foes en masse.

Moral: Get Stamina for the added drain of more toggles. Get it by 22 latest. Get Acro next for knockdown. Lastly, Tough is needed to cap smash/lethal. Boxing is needed for Tough, so get it out of the way early so it's not an issue later.

Fire tanks are VERY tight builds for those who wish to actually tank, and not be glorified scrappers. VERY tight. There is one wiggle possibility, and that's Taunt. Anything else moved later reduces the effectivness of a tanker-type fire tank DRASTICALLY.

I've actually observed this firsthand, both from my tank (correct build) and 5 other fire tanks (incorrect builds) who I have teamed with.

I've also come to the conclusion that slotting anything BUT resistance in your shields is a BAD move. Each SO reduces damage by quite a bit. It makes a DRASTIC difference.

Also, one mistake I continually see or hear: more than 2 resists in Tough/Weave with 6-slotted FS is a complete waste. With 2, and +2 green SOs, you are in the 106% s/l resist bracket. You're at 98% with white (even) SOs. Just don't do it; only 1 or 2 foes reduce damage resistances and they are all post-40. Don't worry about it, it doesn't happen that often.

icaros · 02-24-2005 03:23 AM

cool!

yes, i most definately want to play as tanker, and not scrapper - so i appreciate your info's. and thanks for your special tips too.

reading your post i would conclude that taking boxing at 26 would make more sense than at lvl 10, like in the original mephe build. by doing this i get stamina and acrobatics at 22 and 24 (2 lvls earlier than in mephe's build). i'll probably want to take stamina at 22 (as you said, toggle-drop is not very life-supporting) even tho the knockdowns till then will strain my nerves..

apart from those changes in order, its exactly mephe's build.

icaros · 02-24-2005 04:31 AM

just found this in another thread from 16. feb. 05

[ QUOTE ]
Hi all,

I just hit 50 yesterday with my fire/fire tank Violator X on Champion and here is my input. I had combustion (resp it out), FSC and Burn and I happened to notice that combustions long activation time just made it annoying to use in the cycle of attacks and unnecessary. It seemed that with hasten, by the time the power actually actually hit, burn was ready to go again. You could drop the even and +1-3 with a cycle of Burn, FE and FSC and burn. If there are higher level bosses in there you will want to be targeted on them and in that slight down time between burn and FSC, you can hit him with incinerate or GFS or both. Other wise i found that you will be standing there with burn and combustion for the end of the battle with the boss after all the minions and leut are dead. Also when fighting an AV, you want to constantly cycle through burn, GFS and Incinerate and occasionally drop a FSC in the down time.

Now you may ask "how the hell do you have the endo for all that?" The answer is Conserve power with the epic pool. 6 slot it!!! You dont need combustion, you dont need Rise of the Phoenix. Although I am level 50, I do have to train to my last power at 49 and my last slots at 50. It didnt really matter because it let me upgrade my enhancements upon level so I didnt feel the urgency to pick and would rather not wait on a 44 respec if I dont have to. I just couldnt decide between Build Up max output, Rise of the Phoenix for convenience and visual effect, or superspeed for convenience and partial stealth in missions. Looking for some advice on that.

Now mathematically, numbers may add up to X being more efficient than Y over time or per second. But in terms of the game play from a hunting, soloing, Kraken killing, wolf herding, and AV killing, once the minions drop you dont want to be there for an hour finishing off bosses and leut. You want to have some punch to kill things off and you want to be able to constantly cycle though all your attacks and have the endo to make it possible for the AVs and Monsters. If not for the long animation time on combustion, i may feel differently, but in the time that it took for it to launch, i found that i could hit the boss with a burn, GFS and an INC and launch burn again and have the boss drop with the rest of the minions.

Just my input. And Mephe, I really like your guides and used them to build my character when i wasnt sure how to start off or if i was on the fence with a decision, but I really do feel that conserve power is a no brainer since it works great with consume. It works like this, by the time your endo goes down to 25 percent, you hit consume to get to full. then you come back to the halfway mark and you can hit conserve power and your bar will climb while relentlessly launching your attacks. then by the time conserve power wears off the consume is recharged and so forth.

So i feel between blazing aura, burn and FSC, i have the aoe to get the job done quick on the mobs. With Burn, GFS and Incinerate and Conserve power I have the goods to take down the bosses and do my part with the AVs.

Looking forward to some responses and always looking to learn more.

[/ QUOTE ]

looks like i'll switch combustion for greater fire sword (gfs), too - it sounds very much like my own playstyle. prolly put it in at 43

and prolly put in conserve power, too - seems to be quite effective.

meaning the post 40 plan could be:

41 gfs
44 conserve power
47 fiery embrace
49 build up

but thats only my reading up and no experience really yet could the build work without combustion and with gfs for it instead?

Alyssa_NA · 02-24-2005 11:13 AM

Yes. Attacks are inconsequential as long as you have the primaries and defenses in place. They are just icing on the burn cake.

icaros · 02-25-2005 02:19 AM

hm, another thread got me thinking again :/

i read about the single target damage powers of energy melee, being: energy transfer + total focus (both delicious single target damage!), whirling hands being the replacement for FSC.

thinking bout the post 35 game i and my experience with other characters it does feel good in your tummy when you know you can take those bosses down rather fast (or even just a sapper).

maybe the point for me here is:
if i want to take GFS i might as well reroll fire/em
if i'll stick to mephe's proposed combustion i'll concentrate more on fire's speciality - ae's.

i don't want to turn this into a "energy melee vs. fiery melee" thread - i'd just like some help to decide what fits me most.

my fire/fire tanker is already 14 and i am enjoying him a lot, but i'd be ready to throw the 14 lvls overboard to restart, cause both f/f end f/e would have the same identical build up to 35, where fire would take FSC and energy would take whirling hands.

all these choices :P

Alyssa_NA · 02-25-2005 12:10 PM

ALL fire tank builds (built for pure tanker and not scanker or scrapper-tank or whatever) will be the same up to level 30-ish.

Attacks are just switched out with the level 16 attack, and final two in the line (generally, not sure about ice and stone melee).

EM is great with single-target damage but long recharge. So far, I've made it to 32 with the build and have managed to just get Wirling hands, which is an excellent AoE unslotted, and looks to be wonderful when fully slotted.

ET and TF will be used vs. bosses heavily, but only after Burn runs its course and gets rid of minions. To spam EM attacks would make endurance become a pretty heavy issue with all the toggles, even with Stamina. I've had to add Consume back into my build plan to ensure enough End recovery is present, due to the cost of WH alone.

Fire's going to have a couple of nice heavy hits, but it won't match the front-loaded damage that EM gives you. It's mostly DoTs and, while nice, there's just a few opponents (AVs, bosses, etc.) I wanted to be able to hit heavily.

Also note that your punchvoke will get bigger in sphere the more damage done. Buildup + ET or TF must give some pretty insane aggro from what I've seen thus far on EM tank builds in the 40s.

Mephe · 02-25-2005 02:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
don't want to turn this into a "energy melee vs. fiery melee" thread - i'd just like some help to decide what fits me most.

[/ QUOTE ]

Energy melee actually "fits" better with a fire tank than fire does because of burn. Burn and Blazing aura are good enough to take down minions if you have the time. You get more time if you can herd all the minions into a big pile and cook em all at once. So that leaves us with lieuts and bosses to deal with. Lieuts are pretty much 1.5-2 burn patches or 1 burn + BA + 1 AOE... pretty good for the extra exp. Bosses on the other hand are between 3 and 4 patches + attacks depending on level and type. These are the guys that are AOE inefficient if you want to stick around (Of course they are also exp vs risk inefficient... another reason AOE is king in this game). So because we have an efficient method for taking down everything but the bosses we could use energy post 35 to shore up the single target damage area. Energy's high BI attacks are:
Energy transfer(ET) = 4.3333 smash + 8.3333 energy + hp cost based on damage done (bad with stacked mobs) end = 14.5 level 35 power
and
Total focus(TF) = 2.7778 smash + 7.1111 energy
with build up and 5 damage SOs on these powers you are doing really good (better than MA scrapper) single target damage, but the end cost is pretty steep at 27, level 38 power.
Add in perma haste, Energy punch or Bonesmasher, a full tray of cabs and you are crushin the bosses hard.
A BI of 12 and 10 + buildup will always out damage a 7(incinerate) and 8 (GFS) + fiery and/or buildup.
Not to step on any fire/em guide's toes but I would personally not take whirling hands because relative to burn or BA its pretty crummy for AOE.

Of course the big probem is for single target damage either way you have to wait 37 levels (fully slotted Inc or ET). Solo, Energy is the way to go, on a team I say its a bit less value because your tanking ability is of primary concern. A blaster will always out damage a tank versus a boss. Controller pets will almost always outdamage a tank versus a boss. Some defenders can outdamage a tank versus a boss. All scrappers should be able to outdamage a tank versus a boss (crits chances higher). It comes down to style, if burn is too slow for your team fires AOEs are very nice(+for fire), and if you want to solo bosses quickly(+for Energy).

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TygerTyger · 02-25-2005 02:41 PM

After reading some of this, I am a bit worried that I am going to encounter serious diffculties with my build at a later juncture. I want to know if we are talking about the game being harder (which I have no problem with) or if we are talking about it being so difficult as to be impossible.

Here's what I have so far:
Fire/Fire, Magic Tanker, level 14.

(1) Fire Shield (Dam Red x6)
Scorch (Acc x1)
Brawl (Acc x1)
(2) Blazing Aura (Dam x6)
(4) Healing Flames (Heal x3)
(6) Taunt (Taunt x1)
(8) Hover (End Red x1)
(10) Consume (End Rech x1)
(12) Combat Jumping (End Red x1)
(14) Fly (End Red x1)

So thats where I am now. I have used the Hero Planner, and planned out the rest something like this...

(16) Plasma Shield
(18) Burn
(20) Boxing
(22) Tough
(24) Swift
(26) Health
(28) Stamina
(30) Fiery Embrace
(32) Fire Sword Circle
(35) Incinerate
(38) Super Jump
(41) Acrobatics
(44) Weave
(47) Build Up
(49) Greater Fire Sword

Okay, I have read the forums, and I think that I may be in some trouble, particularly getting Acrobatics late (though I use Hover to protect myself from Knockdown) and I know that a whole lot of people really hate Fly, though it fits my character's RP far more than any of the other travel powers. I also am a bit concerned about the lack of Hasten, but again, it just fits his RP better.

So... am I in a lot of trouble having Tough and Stamina so late? Have I chosen anything that is going to completely destroy this character? Please keep in mind that I am not looking to min-max him (not that there is anything wrong with that, but I am more of a RPer) but rather just wanting to make sure that I am not being suicidally stupid with this build.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

icaros · 02-26-2005 03:57 AM

yay - mephe & alyssa - thanks for taking the time to answer. great help!

so my dilemma is solved:

i'll stick with fire/fire cause aoe is the name of the game. fire/em is most probably really fun too, but its goal is different. with this char i'll stick to killing much and that fast, meaning when solo i might help fill the psychiatric wards with bosses who have started feeling lonely without their minions and lts

as u have said, this game is basically fastest in the "player vs >4 mobs" mode, which seems a fire/fire speciality.

when i've had enough of this build i'll make an inv/em tanker, in my eyes a very nice *real* meatshield with only barrage, whirling hands, energy transfer and total focus from the secondary. this should be quite fun, especially after the fire/fire tankers very tight build - inv/em seems a lot more loose, leaving some space to play and do stupid stuff, not gimping your char *grin*

btw, i have made some minor changes to the defensive build in the teens up to lvl26 , please have a look at it, cause i find they do make a difference (my changes in orange:

Archetype: Tanker
Primary Powers - Defense : Fiery Aura
Secondary Powers - Melee : Fiery Melee
Slot[01] Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Blazing Aura /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Levels 3,3,5,5,7
Slot[02] Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Scorch /Acc
Slot[03] Level 2 : Healing Flames /Rchg,Heal,Heal,Heal,Heal,Heal
Levels 13,13,15,15,17
Slot[04] Level 4 : Fire Shield /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Levels 7,9,9,11,11
Slot[05] Level 6 : Combat Jumping /DefBuf
Slot[06] Level 8 : Consume(T) /Acc,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Levels 23,42,43,45,45
Slot[07] Level 10 : Swift /Run
it feels like a waste at lvl10 to get boxing :P i didn't use boxing anyway yet, so swift gave me a better feeling in the tummy
Slot[08] Level 12 : Taunt /Taunt
ofcourse with selective use in groups, cause we cant really "tank" yet, but i must say very usefull already, blazing aura simply doesn't get it all. also usefull solo already.
Slot[09] Level 14 : Super Jump /Jump
Slot[10] Level 16 : Plasma Shield /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Levels 17,25,25,31,31
well, this looks like a less minor shift from originally 20 down to 16. i didn't feel like i had a choice to take it later, because especially outcast and clocks were already taking down my toggles every other fight. i only changed the order for slotting for the slot at 17, and exchanged it with the first conserve slot 17<->23.
Slot[11] Level 18 : Burn(T) /Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Levels 19,19,21,21,23
Slot[12] Level 20 : Health /Heal
well, stamina is coming up 2 levels earlier because boxing is moved down
Slot[13] Level 22 : Acrobatics /EndRdx
maybe switch this with stamina? dunno to be honest, i'll decide when i'm at the trainers to up to 22 and see how my end usage feels
Slot[14] Level 24 : Stamina /EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec
Levels 25,25,27,27,31
well, yeah
Slot[15] Level 26 : Boxing / Acc
not gonna miss not getting a fun power now, i got stamina and burn + my defense starting to be good, so i'll surving no new *thrills* at his level
Slot[16] Level 28 : Tough /DamRes
Slot[17] Level 30 : Weave /DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf
Levels 34,34,36,36,36
Slot[18] Level 32 : Hasten /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Levels 33,33,33,34
Slot[19] Level 35 : Fire Sword Circle(T) /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Levels 37,37,37,39,39
Slot[20] Level 38 : Incinerate /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Levels 39,40,40,40,42
Slot[21] Level 41 : Fiery Embrace /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Levels 42,43,43,45,46
Slot[22] Level 44 : Build Up /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Levels 46,46,50
Slot[23] Level 47 : Combustion /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Levels 48,48,48,50,50
Slot[24] Level 49 : Rise Of The Phoenix /He

still thinking of a way to fit in conserve power from the epp's tho, but i'll think about it more when i'm >=35.

/em smiles happily, thinking this is a very helpfull and constructive guide and discussion

icaros · 02-26-2005 05:00 AM

gotta add my binds here :P

post fight bind, when i want all shields off with superjump on to look for next grp of mobs. its a nice bind, cause you just hit it once and you are ready for travel:

/bind X "powexec_toggle_on super jump$$powexec_toggle_off plasma shield$$powexec_toggle_off fire shield$$powexec_toggle_off blazing aura"

i'm thinking bout leaving plasma shield activated, because superjumping all over the place tends to let the mobs fire off a first attack, which mostly isnt very harmfull. but if this attack is a hold and plasma shield is off .. well, mostly i am far away enough to be safe, but you never know.. so just delete plasma shield.
--
pre-fight bind to turn on toggles without clicking all over the place. you just have to hit this key 4 times. gotta be little bit careful tho, cause u need to pause between each key-hit for like 0,2 seconds cause of activation time. on the other hand, because it uses powexec_toggle_on/off you cant accidentally turn em off again, so you are quite safe:

/bind X "powexec_toggle_on blazing aura$$powexec_toggle_on combat jumping$$powexec_toggle_on plasma shield$$powexec_toggle_on fire shield"

important also with last bind is, that coh works off the command line from back to front, so it will activate fire shield first, then plasma shield and so on. so just change order to fit your preferences.
--
hope you like them (tho i am sure u have much better one's simply cause you've played your tanker longer :P

naturally you have to replace the "X" with a key of your choice..

Alyssa_NA · 02-26-2005 05:27 AM

You'll want stamina first, then acro.

End useage works this way for me: Running BA, PS, FS and 1 toggle (CJ) eats up end but allows for SLIGHT regen. When you start Burning, your End will SLOWLY go down.

Add Acrobatics, and your end is toast. It actually starts decreasing (gradually). Add Tough and it starts to stack up and your end goes down quickly.

With Stamina with one slot, you're good to go with all toggles running and having a decent end regen. Stamina first, or you'll have a harsh level where you are trying to run toggles but loosing end.

Your bind for turning shields on will not work properly. Binds do not allow for stacked commands (activate 3 powers). When you do this, it activates the last power on the chain. But you'll find that out.

I just put them at the end of my active power tray, and when needed, I just hit the number corresponding. At level 32, I have 7 toggles to run (PS, FS, BA, CJ, Tough, Weave, Acrobatics). I suggest just leave them running. Log in, turn them on. It's really messy when you jump into a mob and don't have one thing or the other active.