[ QUOTE ]
From what I'm hearing, it sounds like it would only take one small tweak to accomplish what the devs seem to want while still making itvery useful.
Someone has suggested that for the 10 seconds, instead of no attacks permitted, apply a massive (99%?) damage reduction on your attacks. Taunt still works, the provoke-attack still works. It even fits the concept, after the rage wears out your attacks will land very weakly on your opponents.
[/ QUOTE ]
Another great idea, among the other eleventy billion good ideas that this thread has produced. It's been said before that this game and the way things work can be/are shifted by our playstyles.. well how about it? When can we get some form of response, even if it's the Lucas "This is my vision, my art" level of response. Some of us are really losing that spark..
Since aggro from the punchvoke depends upon damage dealt, a 99% reduction in damage would prove just as disastrous as not affecting the enemy whatsoever.
Not every Superstrengther has the taunt of Invincibility to take up the slack, you realize. And there are other tankers (like me) who cannot stomach the unheroic tauntbot role and don't have Taunt to use for aggro backup. I refuse to take Taunt, I hate the very idea behind the power. We're supposed to be a threat because we make the enemies hurt, not because we make the enemies blush.
As has been said before, since the base damage of Superstrength is in reality Boxing Strength, Rage is NOT overpowered, but rather brings the the set on par (but only just) with the other sets like Energy, Fire, and Axe (in that order). I have no problem with a penalty to defense when it drops, it fits the idea behind the power. But anything else, especially if it can get you and, by extension, your team, killed -- anything like an Endurance drop or being unable to affect enemies for 10 seconds -- is unacceptable.
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."
"Nothing is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man."
- Thomas Jefferson
This punchvoek thing makes no sense to me. Enemy aggro has always been based on amount of damage dealt. How is this anything new? A blaster tossing out a heavy AoE or a scrapper landing a critical will just steal the aggro from us... just like it used to.
Before you flame me for being "ignorant" on the subject of punchvoke.. keep in mind that the tank I play readily is Invul/Fire... Invincibility and my harsh AoEs have worked for me before punchvoke and I haven't noticed any real change since.
[ QUOTE ]
This punchvoek thing makes no sense to me. Enemy aggro has always been based on amount of damage dealt. How is this anything new? A blaster tossing out a heavy AoE or a scrapper landing a critical will just steal the aggro from us... just like it used to.
Before you flame me for being "ignorant" on the subject of punchvoke.. keep in mind that the tank I play readily is Invul/Fire... Invincibility and my harsh AoEs have worked for me before punchvoke and I haven't noticed any real change since.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, let me cover how punch-voke works in a nutshell. As you know more damage=more aggro, this is why we used to have to use Taunt and/or Provoke like mad in the old days. We did tolerable damage, but not enough in many situations. What punch-voke does is it makes mobs in the "punch-voke envelope" get more aggro at you, the more damage you cause to any mobs in this area (I believe it's roughly equal to your melee area or slightly larger, although I know LBE has some of this too, since I can pull a half dead Boss off my BS/Regen Scrapper friend with one LBE shot, so it may also be a small area or just a single target for Tanker ranged attacks, which are few anyway) the more aggro you get against them all! It does not kick in till 5th level and then it scales up as you level. It still is more effective, the more damage you cause, just like normal aggro, but it affects all mobs in this area. It's quite nice in the 40s-50. I can hold a ton of mobs on me, by attacking and I also have Taunt to cement them to me.
Tomorrow, I shall be testing some Rage aggro theories, and shall report my findings. Let's see how this shall work out.
Extensive testing last night (okay okay it was just a couple of missions) would seem to indicate that new Rage presents almost zero risk to the soloing tank.
Make up your own mind as to whether or not that is a good thing.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
Something occured to me last night, that makes me question the real reason why Rage was altered.
Let's look at Hasten, a power most people use and slot up to make it perma:
If I make Hasten perma'ed, I get the equivalent of 2 recharge reduction SOs, saving me 2 slots that I can apply elsewhere, and allowing all of my skills to recharge faster than their base times, all for the cost of one power pool slot and 4-5 slots with recharge reduction SOs.
Now, apply the same logic to Rage 1.0:
If I make Rage perma'ed, I get the equivalent of 1 accuracy and 2, almost 3 damage enhancement SOs, saving me 3 slots that I can apply elsewhere, and allowing all of my attacks to hit harder and more accurately than their base values, all for the cost of 3 slots with recharge reduction SOs, without hasten or 2 slots with recharge reduction SOs, with hasten.
Next, apply the sort of thinking that was going on that caused Unstoppable to get altered to its current form:
If I make Unstoppable perma'ed, I can use a respec to move all the slots I had in my passive and/or active resistances and put them into my attacks, allowing me to hit really hard.
Now take that same sort of logic, and apply it to what Rage 1.0 allowed you to do, given my previous example:
If I make Rage perma'ed, I can use a respec to leave my attacks with only two slots, filled both with endurance reduction SOs, thus allowing me to attack using very little endurance, all the while still maintaining enough offense and accuracy to allow punch-voke and Taunt to maintain aggro.
Could this be the actual reason why Rage was changed, and why Statesman said this?
[ QUOTE ]
Many players complained about the stun at the end of Rage because it turned off toggles and left them helpless. At the same time, hardcore players with perma-unstoppable or Unyielding were able to avoid the Stun effect. Thus the casual player was getting penalized and hardcore player wasnt getting the desired penalty. We're still looking at the issue - so feel free to post your thoughts & ideas!
[/ QUOTE ]
Please feel free to poke holes in this idea; in fact, I really hope someone does poke a very large, legitimate hole in this theory. I don't want to be right. 
After getting rage and using it on various enemies last night, not once did I have a problem. grouped, soloed, etc. with my final conclusion I express this:
Why in gods good name would you still complain about rage. Having a 400-500 hit knockout blow with two recharge SO's in it, is amazing. Also there is like LITTLE penalty. Most likely by the time you jump into a big fight you'll already have shot off a taunt and hit a few enemies, thus securing aggro for the few moments you're not able to fight.
By the time you get back in, if the aggro is broken, taunt will be up to the task.
Most tankers aren't having the same experience as you, Fei.
Case in point:
[ QUOTE ]
Point: The Tanker's role is to control enemy aggression.
Point: Rage's downside temporarily negates the tanker's ability to control aggression.
::Therefore:: Rage makes a tanker LESS effective.
Case study:
Last night my 29 tanker was running with a 33 blaster and a 21 Defender /sk'd to 28. We were running the blaster's missions. Difficulty was heroic.
We were fighting 33's and 34's.
3 times last night during the middle of fights, Rage's penalty kicked in. Due to the inherent LOW DAMAGE (this is what it says during Character Creation) I had not done enough damage to enough foes to keep aggro locked on me during the down time.
The result? Team wipes. Both my compatriots were unable to escape fast enough when the group of 5 enemies suddenly lost interest in me and charged them, especially with there being no way for them to know that I was "down" fast enough for them to change their attack patterns.
The current state of Rage 3.0 makes Super Strength tankers far less useful on a team. And since Super Strength is just about THE LOWEST damage of the Tanker Sets, soloing is far harder for a Super Strength tanker than for say, a Fire or Axe tanker.
Conclusion:
Current Rage makes Super Strength an unviable build for both team and solo.
This by definition is "broken".
-----------------------
On an emotional note, this pisses me the hell off, as I am a 90% team player. Great. I made a team friendly tank all the way to 30, and now he can't effectively team if I wish to do anything other than stand there and be a taunt-bot...
... Taunt-botting makes me feel OH SO HEROIC!!! Doesn't it you? 
[/ QUOTE ]
He's not the only one, either. Rage 3.0 does not work, especially in pick-up teams where people don't know or understand each other's playstyle. Rage needs to be made so that it is useful in both solo and team play, while keeping it balanced. Right now, it falls far short of doing so.
What I understood about Punch-voke was that it not only affected and area around you but it also created more agro than the damage you delt inorder to keep agro off allies. For example I hit for 50 damage but it creates 100 points of agro so that the scrapper next to me hitting for 95 doesnt take the agro.
I have also noticed that the duration on this agro is fairly short if you miss to often or dont keep punching away regularly you cant keep agro. Thus your low end fast rechargeing attacks are usefull for keeping the agro chain alive.
[ QUOTE ]
Why in gods good name would you still complain about rage. Having a 400-500 hit knockout blow with two recharge SO's in it, is amazing. Also there is like LITTLE penalty.
[/ QUOTE ]
Because of the universial forum WillyW quote, sir:
"But Wither, don't you understand that ANY change to ANY tank power EVER will immediately cause instant death to ANY and ALL teammates including the tanker himself upon use, regardless of preparation, information, strategy, or intelligence?"
Seriously, I was in a group of 8 heroes last night fighting the Madam of Mystery. They called in my hero after failing repeatedly because I must have taken her down 10-20 times in the past. Since I had the experience, I entered the mission, info'd everyone, and instructed them at will. I told the SS/Invul tanker point break: "Before we aggro her, go Rage."
The battle lasted for 10 minutes. Every member of the team (including 4 blasters and a defender) were in melee range. The tanker used Rage everytime it was available. No one noticed the 10 second penalty. He still kept aggro. NO ONE DIED.
This afternoon I'll be testing Rage's penalty with Iron Vixen. Though I already know that, if we come back with positive results, we'll get the same "Well it's different for every other tanker out there! Statesman screwed us!" reply.
Hmmmmmm...
You are lvl 29, and you're wondering why you got your butt kicked by minions, liets, and bosses lvls 33-34.
Note to whining tankers-- you were never meant to fight groups 5 levels higher than you on a regular basis. Rage is fine. You are filled with uncontrollable Rage for a brief period and when it is done, you're tired (which makes sense if you step back and actually THINK about it). If you want to fight lvl 33s and 34s and survive, get another toon to SK you. Whining about your inability to survive attacks against plus 5 lvl baddies will earn you ZERO synpathy points from devs and other players. You will have to (GASP!) adjust your play style. No more running around taunting and fighting purple minions. You will have to adjust and fight minions 2 or 3 levels higher at best. That is what all us other ATs do (I play a lvl 29 tanker myself, along with a 43 scrapper and a lvl 15 controller).
Don't like it?
Fine. That's cool.
Leave.
WoW is waiting for you. Take your whiny butt over there, build a sword, fish, and fight dragons. We'll be fine here, enjoying our balanced game.
[ QUOTE ]
After getting rage and using it on various enemies last night, not once did I have a problem. grouped, soloed, etc. with my final conclusion I express this:
Why in gods good name would you still complain about rage. Having a 400-500 hit knockout blow with two recharge SO's in it, is amazing. Also there is like LITTLE penalty. Most likely by the time you jump into a big fight you'll already have shot off a taunt and hit a few enemies, thus securing aggro for the few moments you're not able to fight.
By the time you get back in, if the aggro is broken, taunt will be up to the task.
[/ QUOTE ]
I will be on test here soon, checking aggro retention. I think Rage 3.0 looks workable. It is absolutely fine soloing. Just need to see if it's ok in team for aggro. If it is, then Rage 3.0 is far better then 2.0 would have become, barring the no end loss bug.
[ QUOTE ]
Don't like it?
Fine. That's cool.
Leave.
WoW is waiting for you. Take your whiny butt over there, build a sword, fish, and fight dragons. We'll be fine here, enjoying our balanced game.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, couldn't this same logic be applied to you and this forum?
No. I'm not a whiney player complaining I can't take on plus 5 minions and bosses.
[ QUOTE ]
No. I'm not a whiney player complaining I can't take on plus 5 minions and bosses.
[/ QUOTE ]
But you are whining about public discussion in a public discussion forum. 
[ QUOTE ]
Hmmmmmm...
You are lvl 29, and you're wondering why you got your butt kicked by minions, liets, and bosses lvls 33-34.
Note to whining tankers-- you were never meant to fight groups 5 levels higher than you on a regular basis. Rage is fine. You are filled with uncontrollable Rage for a brief period and when it is done, you're tired (which makes sense if you step back and actually THINK about it). If you want to fight lvl 33s and 34s and survive, get another toon to SK you. Whining about your inability to survive attacks against plus 5 lvl baddies will earn you ZERO synpathy points from devs and other players. You will have to (GASP!) adjust your play style. No more running around taunting and fighting purple minions. You will have to adjust and fight minions 2 or 3 levels higher at best. That is what all us other ATs do (I play a lvl 29 tanker myself, along with a 43 scrapper and a lvl 15 controller).
Don't like it?
Fine. That's cool.
Leave.
WoW is waiting for you. Take your whiny butt over there, build a sword, fish, and fight dragons. We'll be fine here, enjoying our balanced game.
[/ QUOTE ]
First of all, you sir, belong under a bridge, bothering billy goats.
Second, and a far more civilized response, I wasn't whining, I was giving a case study, reporting results.
The only point that you made worth recognizing AT ALL was the fact that I was fighting +4's and the occaisional +5. Other than that, you gave no valuable input other than flaming me. I will refute what you said, then move on.
1) I wasn't getting my butt kicked, the 33 blaster was. I dropped once, because I had to train a room away from my team so they could awaken and stagger out. Other than that, I did not fall in that instance.
2) Therefore your argument about "WHINING" does not apply.
3) Therefore please take your mindless antagonism somewhere else, preferably to somewhere that reasonable people, like myself, do not have to interact with your vitriol. It leaves me feeling like I've been touched by something dirty.
Why do I say that my scenario was an acceptable example?
Because of my play style which you claim needs adjusting.
I'm an aggro tanker.
This implies that I've taken powers and abilities with that goal in mind.
1) Unyielding has 5 slots of +2 Damage Resistance
2) Temporary Invulnerability has 2 slots of +2 Damage Resistance
3) Resist Physical damage has 1 slot of +2 Damage Resistance
4) Resist Energies and Resist Elements have 4 slots of +2 Damage Resistance
5) Invincibility has been slotted for lowered End cost so that I can run it all the time.
6) Stamina has been taken and 4 slotted to run more toggles effectively, 6 slots is planned
7) Hasten has been Perma'd so that Jab, Punch and Taunt cycle more quickly and can be used to keep aggro.
Theoretically, with that build, I should have no problems whatsoever holding aggro of a +4.
My complaint was not at all that "I can't take them! I am TeH G1MP!!!".
My complaint is that Rage, in it's current 3.0 form, interrupts my ability to draw aggro. Thus it makes me less able to fulfill the role as designated by the developers.
Statesman himself has been quoted as saying that his desired vision for Tankers is to be able to hold aggro primarily by attacking. Rage 3.0 is counter-productive to this goal, in its current state.
Now if you care to have a logical debate about the merits of my actual points, I would welcome it. If you'd rather have a childish tirade and ridicule my points without actually arguing them or presenting and backing up any of yours, please allow me to add you to my ignore list.
Thank you for your time. 
Happy gaming!
-SunderX
Sset - 50 DM/Regen Scrapper - 8 years of out-tanking any tank but Granite, with 5x the DPS.
**Making Altaholism a socially acceptable disorder**
"Scrappers are just like chainsaws. Somewhat hard to handle, EXTREMELY dangerous, and by far the most fun when wielded by the slightly insane." -Alissara
[ QUOTE ]
No. I'm not a whiney player complaining I can't take on plus 5 minions and bosses.
[/ QUOTE ]
Keep posting! It'll make my snarky anti-tanker comments seem almost mundane.
It has been my experience that no other archetype can reasonably expect to do their proper job in a team when fighting opponents that are 4 or 5 levels higher then them. Healers can't be effective enough at healing people, buffers' buffs don't help enough, debuffers don't hit often enough, controllers can't stop the mobs well enough, blasters can't hit enough or do enough damage, nor can scrappers. Why should /Invuln tankers be the exception to this rule? Why should they be the only ones that can do their proper job on a team when fighting opponents 4 or 5 levels higher then themselves? Granted, there are a few builds that can solo opponents like that, but that's a bit different then doing your job on a team with opponents like that.
Now, I'm sure someone here will bring up the fact that they have an X archetype or saw an X archetype on a team who was 4 or 5 levels lower (or even more) and seemed to be doing their job quite fine. Just to head that sort of comment off at the pass I will point out these are a tiny, tiny exception that proves the general rule, and the purple patch itself is pretty much positive proof that this goes against what the designers had intended for the characters.
Infinity:
Ellen, 50 MA/Inv Scr
February Night, 14 Ice/Ice Blstr
Guardian:
SilverSwordmaid, 29 Kat/Rgn Scr
Vicious Killer, 33 Emp/Enrgy Def
Electromagness, 40 Rad/Rad Def
Sense of Humor, 50 Fire/En Tank
Virtue:
Kickfest, 50 MA/SR Scr
Freedom:
Glorious Ending, 29 EM/DA Bru
Again, no. There is no "public discussion" when a player is whining about something stupid. When someone is upset that they can't take on plus 5 minions and bosses, that's not discussion. That's whining. And when they continue to whines because this or that doesn't work the way it used to and prevetns them from attacking said plus 5 baddies, that too is whining. And for some reason, you're defending the whining.
In reponse to more of your whining:
1) The blaster SHOULD have been getting his butt kicked. He's a blaster with only a lvl 29 tanker available to take the damage the baddies are laying down. I'm curious to know how many groups you were fighting, becuase if it was 2 or more groups, you SHOULD have a hard time and you SHOULD get your butt handed to you.
2) Complaining about not being able to handle a grp of plus 5 baddies with a lvl 29 tanker is whining. Pure and simple. You offer nothing constructive or useful becasue you upset that a broken exploit has now been fixed. It is extremely difficult for anyone to handle large grps of high lvl cons, except tankers. That's why they were changed. The AT was broken, and now they are fixing it. Rage is yet another fix, and you will have to adjust your playstyle. No more attacking plus 5 cons in multiple grps with, essentially, only a blaster teammate at the con's level.
3) I state again, you should NOT be able to agro and take on plus 4 or 5 cons. It is literally THAT simple, especially if those cons are multiple groups. I believe the devs have targetted this as an OBVIOUS exploit and/or broken feature and they are correcting it. Tankers used to agroing plus 4 or 5 level cons (and getting moocho xp from the agro) will have to adjust and fight lower lvl cons... like the rest of us.
Again, don't like it? fine. Play WoW. Hephaestus is dead on with his/her comments! Whiney tankers doing mssns with blasters 3-4 levels higher than them are complaining that they can't hold agro against plus 5 cons in multiple groups. Plz, cry me a river. Defenders, controllers, and even some scrappers cannot be as effective in such a situation unless they are sked, which means less xp and slower lvling. Tankers, you used to not need an sk, are now whining that they have to lvl like the other ATs. That is what this is about.
Again, cry me a river.
I'm getting a little tired of reading whiney tankers (and it is moslty tankers) complaining that their AT has been altered and leveled off. You same people biattched and moaned like old women on a stoop when they altered Invul, even though it was obviously broken. Yet, like all other dev alterations, people eventually saw that the changes were needed and liked, and the whiners left and/or were ignored.
The same will happen here.
[ QUOTE ]
Point: The Tanker's role is to control enemy aggression.
Point: Rage's downside temporarily negates the tanker's ability to control aggression.
::Therefore:: Rage makes a tanker LESS effective.
Case study:
Last night my 29 tanker was running with a 33 blaster and a 21 Defender /sk'd to 28. We were running the blaster's missions. Difficulty was heroic.
We were fighting 33's and 34's.
3 times last night during the middle of fights, Rage's penalty kicked in. Due to the inherent LOW DAMAGE (this is what it says during Character Creation) I had not done enough damage to enough foes to keep aggro locked on me during the down time.
The result? Team wipes. Both my compatriots were unable to escape fast enough when the group of 5 enemies suddenly lost interest in me and charged them, especially with there being no way for them to know that I was "down" fast enough for them to change their attack patterns.
The current state of Rage 3.0 makes Super Strength tankers far less useful on a team. And since Super Strength is just about THE LOWEST damage of the Tanker Sets, soloing is far harder for a Super Strength tanker than for say, a Fire or Axe tanker.
Conclusion:
Current Rage makes Super Strength an unviable build for both team and solo.
This by definition is "broken".
[/ QUOTE ]
I submit my INV/SS tanker as proof that Rage has not "broken" my powerset.
I can tank and hold aggro on any group with or without Rage. If I know that the fight is going to last longer than Rage's duration (meaning others will be in harms way when I can't attack for 10 seconds), then I do not use it. I simply tank with my own attacks. Aggro is not a problem.
Hitting the enemy + Invincibility (auto aggro) + inherent tanker 'hate' = all the enemies on me. No Rage needed.
I use Rage when fighting a big boss, or when soloing and I want to mow the enemies down quickly. My friends of lower levels SK into my Unyielding missions all the time, and they don't die, because the enemies ignore them.
Thats how it was before I ever got Rage.
That's how it was when I was running Rage all the time with Unyielding.
That's how it was when I never used Rage (when the fallout was ALL your endo)
That's how it is now with or without Rage as the situation calls for.
My powerset is just fine, and so is my toon.
Rage makes sense now. Would I rather have it with no penalty that actually effects me (like it was before)? Hell yeah, but then again I'd like everyone in the world to give me a dollar too.
Thank you, Eviltrickster. Good post.
The issue here is some tankers (not all, but some) are just mad that they can't level as fast as they used to. Rage was meant to be a "last resort" power, like MoG. You need a big boost to take out a boss, AV, or monster? You got into a rage, and kick its butt. Rage was not meant to be turned on or off like a shield, nor was it meant to be an "everyday" power like Swipe or Thunder Kick. Rage is like Nova. You now use it when you have to make a big offensive punch, and then afterwards deal with the side effects.
Many tankers don't like this because they were used to hitting rage all the time and slicing through plus 5 lvl cons and getting massive XP. NOBODY else can do this. It's an exploit. An obvious exploit. An imbalance in the game.
I'm very happy the Devs find these imblances and fix them, and then ignore whiners who complain about the fix. It shows they care about the game, and how it is supposed to be played.
Bravo to them. Best devs in the business when it comes to costumers, no question.
[ QUOTE ]
It has been my experience that no other archetype can reasonably expect to do their proper job in a team when fighting opponents that are 4 or 5 levels higher then them. Healers can't be effective enough at healing people, buffers' buffs don't help enough, debuffers don't hit often enough, controllers can't stop the mobs well enough, blasters can't hit enough or do enough damage, nor can scrappers. Why should /Invuln tankers be the exception to this rule?
[/ QUOTE ]Again, missing the point entirely.
The point is not that I should be effective against them. The point is that I should be overpowered by them when I try to draw their aggro. If I try to keep their aggro, I should drop, due to their overwhelming power.
This is not the case. The reverse is true. I was unable to keep aggro, and they were unable to drop me.
This is the issue I'm trying to make.
Since my sample was so "flawed", I'll go and repeat it, running my OWN missions on both INVINCIBLE and HEROIC and see if I can get some teammates to come along for the experiment.
I can already tell you that the results will be the same regardless of "enemy level differences"
When you have a team of 4+ players, and running Invincible missions, you'll routinely be facing mobs that are +4 to the person whose mission is selected, so the argument that my sample was flawed is actually invalid. However, to appease the bean-counters, I'll demonstrate the invalidity of this.
One more time, just in case you missed it:
My contention is not whining that I can't take on +4's
My point is that I can't do my job role due to the inability to keep aggro during Rage 3.0's downtime
I would have been happy if I had been able to keep aggro during Rage 3.0's downtime, and had fallen like a blind roofer, earning debt
Now, please quit confusing the issue.
Happy gaming!
-SunderX
Sset - 50 DM/Regen Scrapper - 8 years of out-tanking any tank but Granite, with 5x the DPS.
**Making Altaholism a socially acceptable disorder**
"Scrappers are just like chainsaws. Somewhat hard to handle, EXTREMELY dangerous, and by far the most fun when wielded by the slightly insane." -Alissara
[ QUOTE ]
In reponse to more of your whining:
[/ QUOTE ] Please learn to read.
[ QUOTE ]
1) The blaster SHOULD have been getting his butt kicked. He's a blaster with only a lvl 29 tanker available to take the damage the baddies are laying down. I'm curious to know how many groups you were fighting, becuase if it was 2 or more groups, you SHOULD have a hard time and you SHOULD get your butt handed to you.
[/ QUOTE ] One group, of even cons, of 5 or 6 enemies. I lost aggro, both other teammates went down. I did not.
[ QUOTE ]
3) I state again, you should NOT be able to agro and take on plus 4 or 5 cons. It is literally THAT simple, especially if those cons are multiple groups. I believe the devs have targetted this as an OBVIOUS exploit and/or broken feature and they are correcting it. Tankers used to agroing plus 4 or 5 level cons (and getting moocho xp from the agro) will have to adjust and fight lower lvl cons... like the rest of us.
[/ QUOTE ] You are confusing "agro" and "the ability to arrest enemies". Please quit doing so and confine your "debates" to a single subject. As it is, these types of arguments are used by the worst sort of politicians.
[ QUOTE ]
Again, don't like it? fine. Play WoW. Hephaestus is dead on with his/her comments! Whiney tankers doing mssns with blasters 3-4 levels higher than them are complaining that they can't hold agro against plus 5 cons in multiple groups. Plz, cry me a river.
[/ QUOTE ] If you are going to attempt an intellectual debate, I would suggest:
1) That you keep your comments to the topic at hand, i.e. Rage.
2) Refrain from sarcasm, as it only cheapens and degrades your point, making you seem as if the only point that you have is that you need to feel superior and are willing to degrade any viewpoint that's not your own in order to do so.
3) Learn to spell, type, or correct whatever your issue is so that you are not seen as incompetent, inferior, or otherwise out of your league.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm getting a little tired of reading whiney tankers (and it is moslty tankers) complaining that their AT has been altered and leveled off. You same people biattched and moaned like old women on a stoop when they altered Invul, even though it was obviously broken. Yet, like all other dev alterations, people eventually saw that the changes were needed and liked, and the whiners left and/or were ignored.
[/ QUOTE ] And this is constructive and on the Rage topic how??
Buddy, please please please, grow up.
Happy gaming!
-SunderX
Sset - 50 DM/Regen Scrapper - 8 years of out-tanking any tank but Granite, with 5x the DPS.
**Making Altaholism a socially acceptable disorder**
"Scrappers are just like chainsaws. Somewhat hard to handle, EXTREMELY dangerous, and by far the most fun when wielded by the slightly insane." -Alissara
Dear Devs:
Rage 3.0 is now Live, and it addresses some of the concerns voiced by the community. It now will not guarantee death for ourselves and our team. However it does still hurt us in teams, to the point where we're requested to *not* use it. Rage 4.0 is eagerly awaited by the tanker community and the heroes they protect.
In light of the concerns voiced in this thread and elsewhere by concerned parties, could we please have an official response of some sort? The information vacuum is creating much useless speculation, to the point where we're not even sure we're still being heard.
At a bare minimum we need to have taunts, inherent or otherwise, restored to the penalty phase. Otherwise you have created a power no one will take, except perhaps for dedicated RP types and passive-aggressive sadists who like watching teammates fall in battle. Other ideas have been bandied about on the boards and in this thread specifically that I don't need to address them again here.
Also, I'd like to know, yea or nay, whether the tankers affected by this will get another respec to replace the one wasted by the timing of this change. Personally if I'd known any changes were under consideration at the time the free respec was granted I'd have held onto it or gotten out of Rage entirely. I wasn't a big fan of the original, but I also hated having Hasten like 99.8% of the heroes out there -- especially since it fit my concept poorly. I'll go out on a limb and guess that most SS tankers if given the chance now would drop Rage for Hasten to get their damage output up without risking their team. My impression was that you wanted to encourage a diversity of power selections, with no one power so 'uber' that everyone had it. You've gone the opposite direction by messing up Rage.
So in conclusion, please when you make further changes to Rage think for a second about the logical outcome of the change and its effect on the game dynamics. You say on one hand you wish to encourage teaming, but then introduce a penalty that makes use of a power a danger for the team. Please remedy that. Also, do a better job of communication, even if it's to say, "We're still regularly reading these concerns, and are working on solutions, but have no time line at this point." Just something to let us know this is still on the radar and that our ideas are contributing. Lastly, whatever state Rage ends up in, please *strongly* consider giving affected tanks another respec due to the lack of notice for the original changes.
Yours,
Proletarian
Crey Threat Assessments: Proletarian & Shoe