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I still don't know why they asked for testing. If it was going to happen as is. The only thing I think they fixed was the -50% D on test. I am just pissed they talked me into doing testing.
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Here you go:
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Statesman:
From memory...
We changed Regen, saw that it wasn't working, changed it again to its current state.
We rolled back minion, lt. hit point increases.
We rolled back a change in Tanker burn.
We made numerous tweaks to the Ancillary power sets.
That's just from memory.
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These changes were all from the first set of Issue 3 changes, not the second portion which radically affected Invulnerability for Tanks and Scrappers.
There was no give, no slight adjustment, no anything for the Inv. changes, save a fix to the drastic bug of having Unyielding give a 50% debuff rather than the intended 5%.
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I didn't build Kript for Nova. I found out how uber Nova is at about lvl 28, when I first saw it in a team.
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So you were ignorant of the power and were lucky to get a good one?
I had no idea Unstoppable could be run perma, nor did I even want to take the power when I first started my Tank.
Then I saw how effective it was.
Show me how you and I differ, and what justifies Unstoppable taking a massive hit while you can still blow things up willy-nilly every few minutes.
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Nova does not allow me to take on a mob of +5s, stand there for 10 minutes, while chatting amiably with SG mates, as I have seen invuln Scrappers and Tankers do in my very own SG.
THAT is the difference.
Hey Sayer that's all fine and dandy, but check this:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...Number=1755265
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The following are Known Issues with the 12/23 version currently on the Test Server:
- If you complete a respec while hovering, you will remain hovering until you zone
- Unable to form Task Force with Woodsman if team leader is exemplar
- System message for Healing Flames indicates that you are protected from Disorientation, but you are not
- Energy Absoption does not give Defense bonus for additional villains
- Enhancements do not increase Toxic resistance on Unyielding
- Mission objectives no longer make sound
- If you are completing a respec a Kheldian, you are not able to assign Enhancement slots to some inherent powers at the correct levels
- Also for Kheldian characters, if you have deleted the level 50 character on your account, your respec may fail. You can fix this by logging your level 50 character in and then completing the respec.
- Tough Hide is named P2055730324
- Deflection Shield does not give Toxic resistance
- Outdoor missions do not count down mission objectives
- Council Mek Men is not visible from afar
- Zone exit not marked on Striga Isle map
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Read what I was replying to. The person sounds like they wasted all their respecs. I might only respec twice in a characters lifetime.
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There was no give, no slight adjustment, no anything for the Inv. changes, save a fix to the drastic bug of having Unyielding give a 50% debuff rather than the intended 5%.
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Without giving an opinion on which is more favorable, this really boils down to just how willing you are to alter your playstyle to fix the hole Unstoppable has left. That and how you're going to use your free respec. In addition, it depends on if the outcry after live is sufficient for the devs to roll back the change.
Their complaints were all the proof that is needed. The devs own statements showed that experienced players and not those who cheated would understand how the kheldians are meant to be played.
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Hey Sayer that's all fine and dandy, but check this:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...Number=1755265
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The following are Known Issues with the 12/23 version currently on the Test Server:
- If you complete a respec while hovering, you will remain hovering until you zone
- Unable to form Task Force with Woodsman if team leader is exemplar
- System message for Healing Flames indicates that you are protected from Disorientation, but you are not
- Energy Absoption does not give Defense bonus for additional villains
- Enhancements do not increase Toxic resistance on Unyielding
- Mission objectives no longer make sound
- If you are completing a respec a Kheldian, you are not able to assign Enhancement slots to some inherent powers at the correct levels
- Also for Kheldian characters, if you have deleted the level 50 character on your account, your respec may fail. You can fix this by logging your level 50 character in and then completing the respec.
- Tough Hide is named P2055730324
- Deflection Shield does not give Toxic resistance
- Outdoor missions do not count down mission objectives
- Council Mek Men is not visible from afar
- Zone exit not marked on Striga Isle map
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Is that still unrepaired, or are we both just guessing?
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I didn't build Kript for Nova. I found out how uber Nova is at about lvl 28, when I first saw it in a team.
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So you were ignorant of the power and were lucky to get a good one?
I had no idea Unstoppable could be run perma, nor did I even want to take the power when I first started my Tank.
Then I saw how effective it was.
Show me how you and I differ, and what justifies Unstoppable taking a massive hit while you can still blow things up willy-nilly every few minutes.
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Nova does not allow me to take on a mob of +5s, stand there for 10 minutes, while chatting amiably with SG mates, as I have seen invuln Scrappers and Tankers do in my very own SG.
THAT is the difference.
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THAT is a lie.
The power crashed every 2 minutes. That means you had to dance around and re-initiate any toggles, as well as taking some healing and endurance inspirations. That is not "standing around, chatting".
As well, since we're throwing around overblown stories, I've seen Nova used to completely destroy an entire group of +3 enemies in only a few seconds.
So let's say that your story is true. I get to stand around and let things +5 beat on me while gaining no XP, while, if my story is true, you get to run into a group (while a Tank holds the aggro off of you) and totally nuke them for massive XP gain.
I'm not saying Nova needs to be changed. This isn't a "nerf call". I will, however, bet that a well-designed Blaster levels far more quickly than a PermaUnstoppable Tank.
They had almost two weeks to address issues they knew were unresolved on Test.
Since there are so many people asking "Why did we have to wait, since you changed nothing!!" I would *guess* that one of the things they DID during the christmas schedule was to fix these issues.
Just a guess... but an edumacated one.
I just want to say one thing to all the people who are complaining about all the nerfs and power changes and changes to bosses, archvillians, et. al.
You have only to thank all the whiners who continually complained that the "game is too easy" or "<insert powerset here> is overpowered. My toon doesn't do one tenth (slight exaggeration) the damage that toon does!!!"
Maybe instead of complaining about the game or someone elses abilities, the whiners should be proud of their characters' abilities, and work to improve them, or delete them and rebuild.
I just don't think I ever read Batman or even Green Arrow complaining that they don't have heat vision.
Ok, I'm done now. On with the complaining..........
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I didn't build Kript for Nova. I found out how uber Nova is at about lvl 28, when I first saw it in a team.
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So you were ignorant of the power and were lucky to get a good one?
I had no idea Unstoppable could be run perma, nor did I even want to take the power when I first started my Tank.
Then I saw how effective it was.
Show me how you and I differ, and what justifies Unstoppable taking a massive hit while you can still blow things up willy-nilly every few minutes.
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Nova does not allow me to take on a mob of +5s, stand there for 10 minutes, while chatting amiably with SG mates, as I have seen invuln Scrappers and Tankers do in my very own SG.
THAT is the difference.
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THAT is a lie.
The power crashed every 2 minutes. That means you had to dance around and re-initiate any toggles, as well as taking some healing and endurance inspirations. That is not "standing around, chatting".
As well, since we're throwing around overblown stories, I've seen Nova used to completely destroy an entire group of +3 enemies in only a few seconds.
So let's say that your story is true. I get to stand around and let things +5 beat on me while gaining no XP, while, if my story is true, you get to run into a group (while a Tank holds the aggro off of you) and totally nuke them for massive XP gain.
I'm not saying Nova needs to be changed. This isn't a "nerf call". I will, however, bet that a well-designed Blaster levels far more quickly than a PermaUnstoppable Tank.
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First:
DO NOT ACCUSE ME OF LYING. What nerve... what RIGHT do you think you have to assume MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES to be fallacy? GROW UP.
Moving on past that CHILDISHNESS:
I watched a lvl 43 invuln scrapper fighting lvl 47 clocks in a portal mission, while [censored] to our SG about the changes in Invuln. He would stand in the middle of anywhere between 6 - 10 +4 clocks, and type. Unstoppable would drop, and he'd live through the 5 seconds, no problem, while continuing to type out his complaints about the nerf.
I thought it highly ironic.
On the topic of Nova... all it takes is one miss, versus even cons, and you're dead. Blasters cannot take the hits... Nova is a gamble. What you have seen is a nova gamble that paid-off, which happens about 2/3 of the time. That 1/3 of the time, you are eating dirt.
Let me put this as simply as I possibly can. NO... OTHER... TANKER... COULD... PERFORM... LIKE... AN... INVULN...
The Devs concern themselves with a little thing called 'balance'. They saw that a SIGNIFICANT portion of tankers were invuln, and recognized that the invuln set was too uber.
I have never seen a DA/SR/or even a Regen scrapper stand up to the same level of damage that an Invuln could. I've seen Invuln tankers wade into mobs that fire/stone/ice tankers would step back from saying "Are you mad?!"
There was an imbalance... and invuln tankers/scrappers got hit because the imbalance was fixed. This is the Smoke Grenade b1tch-fest of post I2, all over again. Everyone who wasn't reasonable/mature enough to recognize that they had an extremely unfair power decided to whine, complain, threaten to leave, etc.
I hope all the people that are threatening to leave over this, do - in fact - exit this beloved game of mine. I will continue to happily play my invuln tanker, as well as my other characters.
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As for the Invulnerability, Kheldian, Burn, etc. feedback - all of it was read and considered. We were pleased with the data we received and thought that the changes met our goals.
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And what was the goal of changing Burn for the blasters? To make a sub-par secondary even more useless? There isn't a single person who would think that Burn made the fire secondary overpowered or imbalanced.
To add insult ot injury, this change isn't even in the patch notes. It's a stealth nerf.
Statesman wrote:
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As for the Invulnerability, Kheldian, Burn, etc. feedback - all of it was read and considered. We were pleased with the data we received and thought that the changes met our goals. That isn't to say that we might not tweak these things further - but by and large, we are happy with the changes.
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That suggest to me that either you did not in fact read and consider the feedback, or your goals for this game are so wildly different from those of the vast majority of your customer base - and certainly from my views - that I no longer have any hope for the future of this game.
I never imagined in a million years that I would find myself saying this, but on the basis of that statement alone I am now heading over to the NCSoft site to cancel my account. I recently purchased the DVD edition to upgrade my existing account, so I'll have at least another 30 days of play to see if you guys actually dig in and make some serious changes, but if your quoted statement above is literally true then I will have to find myself another game.
Very, very dissapointed 
Kal
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Are you playing them solo or in a group? For solo play the kheldians were meant to be a challenge. For players who had played the game and learned the mechanics of proper slotting and power selection and who could determine from the enemies up ahead what powers and what inspirations to be used to win.
Kheldians are not a bash bash the space button character. A lot of complainers are those that powerleveled and therby never learned anything about the game besides how to cheat.
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Kheldians suck solo.
Kheldians suck teamed.
I started playing this game at release.
I Did not powerlevel.
I've played a scrapper, a blaster and a defender...
And I know suck when I see it.
They aren't cool.
They aren't epic.
They aren't ready for primetime.
I will not roll one.
I will not team with them because I don't want to die because of their poor design.
If you enjoy playing them more power to you. As far as I'm concerned they are a wasteful overhyped disapointment. And I can't understand why they were released in their obviously broken state. People played with these things. we tested them, tweaked them.... and they are sub par, by any measure. There is NO benefit to trying to level one of them.
I know that I am going to seem like an idiot for asking this question. I have seen lol and fotm a lot. What do they mean?
Ebony Fists: Level 50 DM/Regen Scrapper, Gloom Piston Robotics/Dark mastermind level 34, QueenFireMare: Level 34 Fire blaster (pure fire),
In the couple of hours I've played in issue 3 I haven't really encountered any problems. 2 of my 3 main characters were nerfed to some degree in this update but I'd say overall this is a nice update. I lost burn, but with the EPP's I think I found a more effective build. My scrapper doesn't have the potential he once did, but I'm sure there will be a build that works in the late game. I do know that at 24 he's more powerful now than he was before the update. I'm sure he'll encounter the problems that the high level invuln scrappers are dealing with but nothing insurmountable.
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As for the Invulnerability, Kheldian, Burn, etc. feedback - all of it was read and considered. We were pleased with the data we received and thought that the changes met our goals. That isn't to say that we might not tweak these things further - but by and large, we are happy with the changes.
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Thank you for clarifying that you do not care about your players.
I'm sorry, but this has changed me from a staunch supporter of yours to a bitter player that has lost all confidence in the integrity of the people running his game. I no longer have any faith that I can spend time building a character and not have it eviscerated due to the moods/whims/convenience/political climate existant at the Dev. offices.
Please enjoy being happy with your changes, and I hope your Christmas was as care free as mine was fretful due to this.
FirePlug
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My god, if you're going to get this upset and bitter over a change in a GAME, do yourself a favor and quit already - or get a life.
Sorry, but the
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Thank you for clarifying that you do not care about your players.
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is completely out of line here. The Devs are looking at the LONG TERM situation with the game. The testing done allowed them to datamine and find if the changes were where they felt they should be. I'm not totally happy with the END cost situation of my SS/Invun Tanker; but it's HARDLY game breaking, NOR does it come across as the Dev Team 'not caring' or going out of their way to screw Invun Tankers.
They reversed some of the Regen tweaks also based on datamining (and not 'player whining') because the data they got from the folks on the Test server showed those changes didn't achieve what they wanted.
I'm CERTAIN the Dev's are aware that a number of Invun Tankers are not happy with the changes, but I think it goes to show that the Devs DO care about the overall playability and enjoyablity CoH even when they go with a 'unpopular' change that may cost them some subscribers in teh short term, but that they see a goos for the game overall in teh LONG TERM.
But without a decent 'test sample' of player data, they connot do the analysis they need to find if a change works as they intended or not; and THAT'S why they need folks on the Training Room server to test things there. If you don't like it, you always have the oprtion of 'voting with your wallet'; but I think you need to grow up a bit when you react as you have above.
BTW - No matter what MMORPG you jump to (assuming you do); changes like this ALWAYS happen and WILL ALWAYS happen for the entire run of a given game. If you can't handle this, I suggest you stick to singlr player games.
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I know that I am going to seem like an idiot for asking this question. I have seen lol and fotm a lot. What do they mean?
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"lol" = laughing, sort of. "fotm" is "Flavor of the Month", or the powergamer's current uber-build. Very often whacked repeatedly with a nerf bat when the next issue goes live.
My first "turning point" in this city was during the Rularuu Invasion, and charging in with my BS/Regen Scrapper. Skyway City, at Level 10. It went...poorly.
Dooooooooom, Dooooooooooom!
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Kheldians suck solo.
Kheldians suck teamed.
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Ah you don't like a challenge then. Kheldians do have varieance in their builds due to the fact you can skip the shape shifting powers. The abilities of kheldians when properly built will quite the whiners. Heck you cannot cookie build them like other powersets so there is challenge.
They have unique story arcs and missions so there is a benefit to actually playing them since each of the epic ATs are two different game play expierences.
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I know that I am going to seem like an idiot for asking this question. I have seen lol and fotm a lot. What do they mean?
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"lol" = laughing, sort of. "fotm" is "Flavor of the Month", or the powergamer's current uber-build. Very often whacked repeatedly with a nerf bat when the next issue goes live.
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lol and for the questions that raised:
lol= Laugh Out Loud
Nerf= have your powers or abilities reduced in some way so that you feel you're attacking with a nerf bat (usually meant to mean you've been made innefective at your ability)
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Kheldians suck solo.
Kheldians suck teamed.
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Ah you don't like a challenge then. Kheldians do have varieance in their builds due to the fact you can skip the shape shifting powers. The abilities of kheldians when properly built will quite the whiners. Heck you cannot cookie build them like other powersets so there is challenge.
They have unique story arcs and missions so there is a benefit to actually playing them since each of the epic ATs are two different game play expierences.
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way to presume what I like. I played a fire/fire blaster through 50 levels. got every debt badge in the game. every badge for damage taken. every badge for defeats. going up against red mobs with no defense and zero resists. and even purples is a challenge. Playing many of the classic AT's is extremely challenging. Playing a kheldian isn't challenging. it's pointless.
-30% damage. the need for 6 team mates to hit base line. so you can fill exactly what role in said team? Survive like a scrapper? nah. blast like a blaster... not really. tank like a tanker? (laff.) Defend? Control? none of the above. they are out classed by already exsistant archetypes in every way shape and form. And unique story lines? I wonder when you're going to have a chance to follow that story line since you'll be busy doing other peoples missions because you can't solo for [censored]?
And btw. I'm not whining. I have no need to whine. I'm not going to play a pleasbreakme or a wimpshade.
I'm disappointed, States. After you posted stating you'd "keep hammering at Issue 3 until it's solid," I had faith that you were determined to avoid an Issue 2-like launch. Sadly, it went out in the same state as the last update.
Maybe the problem is our priorities. There are people who argue that Issue 2's lauch was fine - could be that you're one of them. I think it should have stayed off live until the big bugs were ironed out, but apparently getting it to live is more important than addressing "minor" bugs and gameplay issues.
Again, it could be that those issues were resloved in your eyes. I've got to disagree, but you've got the Big Picture on your side, which trumps everthing, mostly because no one has a clue what it is.
I'd agree that most of what you're looked at in recent updathes needed to be changed, but the fixes you've imposed seem a bit off. I've seen numerous suggestions on the boards on how to better handle these changes, but they were either lost under the tide of rants or ignored completely. I don't want to believe that you've dismissed all of the ideas that have been circulating around in the topics you created, but your post just about killed any hope I had for better solutions.
As with Issue 2, there will probably be a flurry of patches to correct the bugs, but the gameplay issues will remain. Chances are they'll simpy be forgotten about. I've lost faith, devs. I doubt your vision will be inhibited by a couple of disappointed players, and I wish you luck your continued deveopment of the game, but I'm unsure if I'll stick around to see where it goes.
3 not six. Any more will boost the kheldian beyond the damage dealing of blasters if you get the right ats. Also the nova and dwarf forms are for soloing. Nova does great damage and you can aerial bombard the mobs. Four Novas will decimate any mob group faster then several blasters.
And the kheldian is not meant to be a scrapper unless you use the dwarf form. Some people will slot out the dwarf form more. Others the nova form. Also I have never had a problem doing my missions when I play defenders, controllers, tanks. I always manage to get my missions done along with the other people in the team.
And if I outlevel missions so what? Flashback will take care of that. Also since I recall what contacts sell what non power ten I know to do those missions to get what my controllers, defenders, tanks need.
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I didn't build Kript for Nova. I found out how uber Nova is at about lvl 28, when I first saw it in a team.
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So you were ignorant of the power and were lucky to get a good one?
I had no idea Unstoppable could be run perma, nor did I even want to take the power when I first started my Tank.
Then I saw how effective it was.
Show me how you and I differ, and what justifies Unstoppable taking a massive hit while you can still blow things up willy-nilly every few minutes.