That and buck will get you a coffee at Denny's

So when do we get any information about this expansion that we want.No idea how it's gunna work ,no screenies ,just a movie that will be nothing like it's going to realy be like ,and a vague website.Do they not have enough confidence in the game to release in the information?I can't realy lay down money on something just because someone says "trust us ,it'll be cool"

Wish we had more info, for sure, for sure.

Seems a month ago or so, I read a Statesmen post, that led me to believe they had not even started working on it at that point.

Sure wish we knew anything.....

If you know about the Prima guide for CoH and how different it was from the game on release... then consider what it would have looked like if they had written the guide a few months earlier than they did...

Then you'll see why there's no info.

I think that they're a little gun-shy at releasing details on anything at this point. The dev's that chime in here have gotten spanked by players repeatedly for hawking features that don't make the intended deadline for release. (Examples: Loot vaults, Alliance chat, certain persistent bug fixes (TF's, powersets, contacts), SSOCS, Epic AT's, etc.)

I think they've gotten much better at tantalizing players without over-promising them things. Statesman and others have commented that there are about eight(?) levels of development in CoH, the last 3 or four being separate operating versions of the game. Several times they've remarked that made a mistake in where they thought a certain feature or fix was in the pipeline. I'm eager for details on upcoming developments in the CoH universe, but I'll give a pass on CoV info until around X-mas. The game's not due until summer/fall 2005, for heavens sake...

think of it this way- this expansion is likely to come out just over a year after the original. They didn't even announce what the expansion would be until right after this release.

Probably the last 3 months have been nothing but planning- it's all pseudocode and a few proof-of-concept models.

Give em time.

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The game's not due until summer/fall 2005, for heavens sake...

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Where is that date from? I was thinking (maybe just my own wish) it would be around first quarter 2005. Could have sworn I was thinking that for a reason.

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The game's not due until summer/fall 2005, for heavens sake...

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Where is that date from? I was thinking (maybe just my own wish) it would be around first quarter 2005. Could have sworn I was thinking that for a reason.

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As a rule of thumb, For MMORPG's, don't expect any "substantial" expansion less than a year after the original. Non-online games release expansions sooner, but they're more equivalent to the periodic "free" updates.

Release an expansion too soon (under a year) and you run the risk of alienating potential players who see a "cost creep" with playing the game- it's not a bigger investment to get involved. Release an expansion too late, and you risk losing the spotlight.

IMHO, City of Heroes has been on the bestseller list for what... 4 months? It's high on the public scene- and still has a prominent place in many game stores. They don't need an expansion in-store to keep a high profile. They've suggested that some PvP features will be offered prior it's release, so it doesn't need to be rushed for the PvP crowd. I wouldn't be suprised if the release came 1-2 months AFTER the 1 year mark of CoH's release.

No sooner.

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So when do we get any information about this expansion that we want.No idea how it's gunna work ,no screenies ,just a movie that will be nothing like it's going to realy be like ,and a vague website.Do they not have enough confidence in the game to release in the information?I can't realy lay down money on something just because someone says "trust us ,it'll be cool"

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ok

would you like them to post all the info they have on CoV as it is right now, ie not finished, with the certainty that maybe 75% of that info will be changed in some way before actual release?

what good would it do for them to post information that they themselves don't even know if right or wrong?

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ok

would you like them to post all the info they have on CoV as it is right now, ie not finished, with the certainty that maybe 75% of that info will be changed in some way before actual release?

what good would it do for them to post information that they themselves don't even know if right or wrong?

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I understand where you are coming from Irmin. But I do not fault anyone for having expectations fueled by anticipation. After all, we are only super human.

I suspect that once a date is given you will see a torrent posts for which you will despise their impatience.

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The game's not due until summer/fall 2005, for heavens sake...

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Where is that date from? I was thinking (maybe just my own wish) it would be around first quarter 2005. Could have sworn I was thinking that for a reason.

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Back in the days before inactive posts were deleted after two weeks, several industrious CoH fans took notes at the CoH panels during the summer convention season. Jack Emmert (Statesman) commented that the limited PvP Arena would be out - understandably making an educated guess and not stating definitively - around Update #6 and CoV would follow that. At the current rate of Update deployment of 3 months, that puts CoV at a Holiday 2005 release window.

He also commented that after convention season they were going to try and deploy Updates at a slightly quicker pace. The doubling of their staff recently bodes well for that. However, even if they put out Updates every two months after #3 due around November, that's still putting the CoV release date at no earlier than May/June.

My memory is getting sketchier as the days go by, but I do remember the results of the threads reverse-engineering the timeline putting CoV at no earlier than summer 2005, and likely fall 2005. As with all things Cryptic, things change as the situation evolves. And that's okay.

I tend to believe that they don't let information out more because the information can potentially cause people to quit. Why risk that when they can keep us in the dark for a year while we pay and wait in anticipation? I don't blame them, but in the end it would be good of them to give information rather than let those who are waiting for CoV continue to wait and find out in the end that CoV wasn't worth the wait. It may be worth the wait, it may not be, but I doubt it'll compare to the imagination and undoubtedly someone will be let down. That would certainly make anyone mad.

Please -- no conspiracies, no evil plots; it's just common sense.

Right now we are in the early stages of things. We have a lot of ideas about how we want things to work and what will happen. Some only exist in our heads, some are worked out on paper, and a few are starting production. But...

"There is many a slip twixt the cup and the lip."

I've worked on projects where the developers come out early and say "We're going to do this and it will work like this," etc. And you know what? Things changed for all sorts of good reasons -- the system architecture didn't allow it; it was going to take 10 man-years of work to implement; somebody came up with a better idea; and, even, it just wasn't fun.

Right now, if I said "We're doing X," I might not be lying, but that's no guarantee it will happen that way. It is far better to actually get our designs implemented and further down the path and then say, with a lot more certainty, how CoV will work. You'll get better information that way.

So what will help right now? You ideas, especially constructive ones. Just posting "PvP will suck because..." isn't nearly as useful as "I've got a suggestion for how to make PvP fun..." I've seen some good suggestions on these boards which have helped me think through some of the challenges.

And so as not to just complain myself I'm going to start posting some questions to the forum -- things that hopefully get you thinking about those good ideas.

Is it just me... or is the head villain of CoH way more friendly and talkative than the head hero in terms of forum posts...?

as he lulls you into a false sense of security....

good idea, LR.... post those questions, let us help you work things out. Will do wonders to bolster our faith in you.

Just you.

Statesman
Cryptic Studios Lead Designer
Total Posts 527

Lord_Recluse
CoV Lead Designer
Total Posts 20

Lets keep into perspective a few things: CoH is released, CoV is in development. Coh has costumers, CoV has fans and anxious would-be costumers.

Statesman was crazy talkative during beta as were all/most of the dev team. I'm very greatful L-Recluse is talkative, but it would be nice to have input from other peeps on the CoV team as well. I would assume that things will pick up tremendously during Alpha and on into beta.

No disrespect intended towards L.R., just don't like to see the main man get ragged on by those who can't fully comprehend what's on the line and what a crazy heavy load he carries.

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Is it just me... or is the head villain of CoH way more friendly and talkative than the head hero in terms of forum posts...?

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It's a trick; get an ax!

You somehow expect a Dev with the name Recluse to be talkative? Statesman I understand, but Recluse?

It's all in the name... how appropriate.

considering you won't be laying down any money for another year, why do you need information now?

My biggest concern with PvP are AE hold/mez powers. Those really sucked hard in DAoC.

During the four years that Fable was in development at Lionhead Studios, founder and leader Peter Molyneux ran his mouth non-stop about all the spectacular features that would be in the game. Of course less than half of the things he rambled about ended up in game, and most in a diminished capacity at that.

Although Fable is getting positive reviews, many, many players feel that Lionhead created a false expectation of what the game would be, prompting Molyneux to post a public apology for creating such expectations.

I'd rather Cryptic under-promise and over-deliver instead of "pulling a Molyneux".

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Is it just me... or is the head villain of CoH way more friendly and talkative than the head hero in terms of forum posts...?

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Villains tend to be chatty. The hero escapes the trap when, parched from his unending exposition, the villain leaves the room for a drink of water!

Since you are about to die, Mr. Bond, I suppose there is no harm in telling you why I am irradiating the world's supply of marshmallows. It all began when I was a child, and the school bully tortured me by not sharing his hot chocolate with me. I swore revenge, revenge - on him and the rest of the world!! And so I planned, sweated, and dreamed, until I hit upon this, this which I shall now tell you ... *cough* ... pardon me, I must quench my throat. I will return!

I think it's the megalomania, villains can't help but tell an epic version of the story - a version scaled to their ego.

Who's Buck and where do I find him to redeem this Coffee offer?

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I tend to believe that they don't let information out more because the information can potentially cause people to quit. Why risk that when they can keep us in the dark for a year while we pay and wait in anticipation? I don't blame them, but in the end it would be good of them to give information rather than let those who are waiting for CoV continue to wait and find out in the end that CoV wasn't worth the wait. It may be worth the wait, it may not be, but I doubt it'll compare to the imagination and undoubtedly someone will be let down. That would certainly make anyone mad.

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Do I need to remind you of the debacle that was Daikatana? THAT is an example of how badly overhyping a game can be.

Heh...

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recluse

SYLLABICATION: re·cluse
NOUN: A person who withdraws from the world to live in seclusion and often in solitude.
ADJECTIVE: Withdrawn from the world; reclusive.

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http://www.bartleby.com/61/59/R0085900.html

I find humor in odd things, sorry.

[This is regarding the States Vs L.R. arguement a few posts up.

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Do I need to remind you of the debacle that was Daikatana? THAT is an example of how badly overhyping a game can be.

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Ah Daikatana. May Romero burn in hell.

Of course, the master if hype (with a capital Hype) has to be Derek Smart.

BattleCruiser 3000AD can join Romero.