Doggabone

[ QUOTE ]
While approaching 9 million paying subscribers, which is more than the Nelson rating of most tv shows, WOW has servers that are labeled PVE and Roleplaying, which have pvp zones and have pvp hot options. Eve Online, MXO, Guildwars, COX, Vanguard, and every other game have the pvp components. Warhammer, Age of Conan, Gods & Heroes: Rome Rising, Star Trek Online, Marvel, DC, Firefly Online, and World of Darkness Online, are being pre built with PVP in mind and that's every major game being released from 2007-2009.

PVP pays the bills. PVE does not.

...

Here is your proof from just one major developer, watch all 7:26 minutes: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZOTRjWGxmjI

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Fair enough. 'killing the myth' etc was a bit grandiose though, don't you think, for such a simple point?

As far as paying the bills etc. I've been playing for 2 and a half years, and I'm still far from bored with the PvE content. Every Issue brings me more, too. You say there's Player-created content from PvP. If you tell me where I can find it, I'd love to give it a go to see how it compares to the story arcs of the PvE game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, well ... every game cited as proof has spent a lot of time and money on PvE content (it's typically the lion's share of the budget, but much of that work goes directly into PvP content too). If it were only PvP that paid the bills, they wouldn't bother at all - you could level up a character based on PvP performance, and trade currency earned in PvP for your upgrades. But despite the FUD elements ("PvP pays the bills. PvE does not." ) and oversimplifications, there are fair points behind the overstatements. I don't think it's willful disinformation, but a lot is being conveniently overlooked. I mean, if you swapped "PvP" for "PvE" throughout, it holds up just as well.

Or, to say that people finish the PvE content and so it's not relevant is as valid as saying that people never finish the PvE content despite years of subscription (in five years, I never got through all of EverQuest!) and so it's all that's relevant. Both statements begin true, yet neither one ends genuinely.

If the only draw of Warcraft were the PvP, the queue for a BG would take days. Imagine being in a lineup 9 million people long!! WoW is a spectacular phenom - you've got a huge number of people ignoring the PvP and working through the PvE alone and slowly getting through it. Plus, you've got a huge number that burn PvE as fast as possible to focus on raiding - a huge chunk of whom are doing so only to be better equipped at PvP. You've got a sizable group, too, who find the perfect twinkable BG and stop levelling to only play that one BG with that character. And the fourth half of 'em are doing some or all of the above ...

One of the reasons cited (you'll have to find the quotes yourself if you need citations, and there is much more involved than what I am about to paraphrase) by WoW developers for changing both the raid and PvP structuring is that those "hardcore" markets weren't sweeping through the game population as they'd anticipated. To sustain those game elements, they needed to soften the curve and broaden the appeal, to get more of the casual, non-raiding, non-PvP players playing the content that would keep them locked into the game. That is, raids and PvP.

Yes, both of those are vital to the game. No, neither one exists in it's own bill paying vacuum. All elements are important to Blizzard's model and they want raiders to quest, questers to PvP and PvPers to quest and raid too. That's the money, baby! (And if there's one thing Blizzard knows by now, it's the money!)

Even Warhammer Online, an IP that just screams out PvP, is working on PvE content (and they may trump all comers by how they blend PvE with PvP by what I've been reading). One of the reasons they've delayed shipping the game is to work on the starting areas for Dwarves and Greenskins. This gives them some opportunities to rework other PvE elements too. And I'm sure they'll be addressing PvP too but if you read the full interview balance and netcode were in place, it was the early environments that needed work.

Mark Jacobs: "The most challenging aspect of development has been the delivery of exciting quests that immerse you in the ongoing war efforts as well as designing, testing and balancing our "Careers." Over the years we have proven that we can create great and lasting Realm vs. Realm systems -- now we have to take both our RvR and PvE systems to the next level. That takes a lot of time, energy and focus to pull off."

The complete interview (about the WO:AoR's delay) can be read at http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/warhammer-o...783684p1.html.

Yeah, the next big thing (okay, one of them) in PvP/RvR is also working on their PvE game too. And why not? If you overlook either side of the coin, you better have a damn good reason. Certainly you can build a pure PvP game and find an audience and you can build a pure PvE game and find your audience but the best way to be popular is to broaden your appeal without pissing anyone off. (D'uh!)

But to say "PvE/P pays the bills, PvP/E does not" is as stupid as saying "Steak is food, potatoes are not". Balance your diet already, and stop talking with your mouth full. The day PvE/P pays the bills and PvP/E does not is the day game companies stop creating PvP/E content. If you were a game developer, would you really turn down all the subscriptions of those who prefer PvE/P to PvP/E?

"Player created content" is the challenge pf playing other players. Look in the PvP zones or the Arenas. You won't always find anyone there but if you keep heading back you will. If you haven't tried it you might be pleased, or you might be bored. Everybody's different.

[ QUOTE ]
Are you serious? You do realize this provides nothing (by design) to a resource strapped, small SG, while providing a large, organized PvP, who can farm a single av for a week and a half, a huge advantage for 15 mintes, aka 1 match.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've summarized why our small, resource strapped, casually playing SG has no base at all. We all agreed that in theory bases are the coolest thing to happen to any MMO any of us have ever played, but since we can't see the math that makes rent ... erm, upkeep earnable within the time we spend playing, we'll never know if they're as much fun in practice as they are in theory. And we're a little baffled by an apparent intent, in this particular game, to close some of the play and features to the more casual and lightweight player. It's not as if there is an in-game economy that really benefits from influence (erm ... prestige ...) sinks. Kudos to the earnest grinders and larger groups tho.

Less NPC's in banks is something we were wishing for tonight in my group ... and hey, why not have a bunch of them cowering instead of jamming up all the doorways? I tell you this - if I'm ever in a bank during a robbery, I'll not be shoving cops and robbers aside, I'll be hiding under a desk with my face buried in the floor.

[ QUOTE ]
Is it just me... or is the head villain of CoH way more friendly and talkative than the head hero in terms of forum posts...?

[/ QUOTE ]

Villains tend to be chatty. The hero escapes the trap when, parched from his unending exposition, the villain leaves the room for a drink of water!

Since you are about to die, Mr. Bond, I suppose there is no harm in telling you why I am irradiating the world's supply of marshmallows. It all began when I was a child, and the school bully tortured me by not sharing his hot chocolate with me. I swore revenge, revenge - on him and the rest of the world!! And so I planned, sweated, and dreamed, until I hit upon this, this which I shall now tell you ... *cough* ... pardon me, I must quench my throat. I will return!

I think it's the megalomania, villains can't help but tell an epic version of the story - a version scaled to their ego.

It does. Short Circuit is currently 5 slotted for end drain, Power Boost has the one recharge in it - both will be six slotted eventually. Using Stealth + Super Speed to approach, Power Boost and Short Circuit will end drain a red boss (or lower) completely. If I keep hammering him, I can keep him empty. It's not perfect - missing with an attack while I'm waiting for stuff to recharge can grant him a window to gain a sliver of endurance back and counter-strike.

Enemy targets with stealth detection can aggro the spawn onto me before I am in melee range for the Short Circuit attack, which is painful! I can miss with the initial end drain and get smooshed, and I have been *noticed* and attacked during the Short Circuit animation. I can burn through my endurance bar pretty quickly spamming Power Boost and Short Circuit atop with my damage cycle, too. But overall, it works very well for me and I have fun with it.

The same tactic works on minions, but it's generally wasted on them. Depending on the group makeup, tho, I will end drain larger spawns sometimes as my AE damage isn't so great and I'll be whittling down the group one or two at a time. I might as well reduce the attacks against me while I do.

Thunderous Blast is decent endurance drain, too - but it's on a slow timer (as it should be), and I will be slotting it out for damage, obviously. Without Short Circuit, I do not have endurance drain as a useful tactical advantage. I'd love to see the other attacks have a more noticeable effect too, and I'd like it if Short Circuit were a ranged AoE. But those are convenience issues and mebbe a little unbalanced. (ie: Short Circuit being a PBAoE adds risk to what is a very large advantage - that's fair to my thinking.)

Until I see what comes with the 40+ game (and maybe after that, I dunno till I get there), I will feel that the electricity endurance drain effect is useful and balanced against the sub-purple content - but that you need to build towards it much more aggressively than the other blasters do to reap the benefit of their secondary effects. (A target that is 30% has its damage output reduced by 30% - one that drained of 30% endurance can do 100% damage output.) Against an AV, I have yet to find that the endurance drain has any usefulness at all. Against an AV, I say its HP drain for the win.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
says the badge requires an arseload of monkeys

[/ QUOTE ]Sorry, I'm having difficulties getting a conversion on that amount, whats that in metric.

[/ QUOTE ]

3.8 boatloads. Not to be confused with buttload, which is of course another imperial measurement.

Oh, and 1 boatload = 48.2 barrels.

Choice 4: Find spots that are away from those in the zone for *real* levelling. It takes marginally more time - not much - and besides, respawns are always popping up, and so if someone who *belongs* in that zone happens to cross your path, you won't be much impediment to them.

This issue will settle down too, even tho some over-crowding and bottlenecking is to be expected with new content, it will abate naturally before any reasonable and temporary could be applied (and subsequently removed).

Mebbe when the self-buff damage nears peak, there could be some screen shake, similar to the effect of a Stone tanker attack ... I love that hammah ....

Also, a little blurring of the fists/weapon, a little *BWOOOMPH!!* noise. Rar!

IIRC, CTRL+TAB is the default keybind for target_enemy_near.