Why must Exemplar-ing suck?
By
Aaron123,
Posted on: 2004-10-02 18:29 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
the point the exemplar is to help the lower lvl guy get xp faster. stop being so selfish and think of other people for once.
Personally I am done doing exemplaring until they fix the mob run bug. I can't stand getting to a mission and having everything run. You know, like somebody forgot to tell the mob that you aren't lvl 42 anymore?
I think the main reason for Exemplaring is to play with friends who are lower level than you, specifically so you can help out with their missions. The "get rid of debt" is an incentive.
I'm not saying that Exemplaring can't be made more appealing -- maybe an increase in Influence would help -- but I suspect the system was designed more for social reasons than in-game gain.
I can think of a couple of reasons for the exemplar system that explain why they did it that way. The biggest is the eventual (hopefully) ability to do tfs and trials that were missed by high level players. If you got to keep all you powers and slots, it would unbalance the early tfs.
I am guessing that the reason you make no real advancement was to keep people from abusing the system. It is not the best answer, but it was probably the easiest/fastest.
As for a reason to use it now, you exemplar down to exactly your partner's level. Then you both have comparable abilities. SKing brings someone with less powers and slots to close to your level. If you are a high level playing with a low level friend, how much help is that person going to be with only a few powers slotted with a couple of maybe DOs? This way both parties can feel useful. Not very good for a power gamer viewpoint, but nice from a fun/rp viewpoint.
My friends will advance just as fast, or faster if they're Sidekicked to me.
How is that selfish?
they have a tough mish they cant do. asks you for help. you say no since you wont get reward.
games are for Fun. people forget that
The only thing I can think of is that they're afraid some players will try getting to 50 by staying in Atlas Park for 6 months. Seems like a ridiculous thing to be afraid of, to me. If someone really wants to do that, why stop them? Because they'd have to really want to do that, considering how much longer it'd take.
I think they should change it so that you get normal xp for the level you're fighting at, if you have no debt. That's so low compared to higher level xp, but at least it'd be something. Not as incentive, but just so that it won't feel like a complete waste of time.
I don't get the idea that it's only for players who want to be completely selfless in thier desire to hang out with lower level friends.
I can't really defend the current Exemplar system because I haven't used it THAT much, but let me give an example:
My fiance had a mission to kill X amount of Vahz. I play a level 21 Scrapper (on the server with her toon, anyhow) and I don't think there's any Vahz around that are my level. I also had a fair amount of debt (/e shakefist at Tsoo), so I became her toon's Exemplar so we could both get a benefit (her a trusted team-mate and XP for the arrests, me a debt-reduction) and we went to town. I didn't notice the "running" bug, but I've heard about it before so add me to the "fix this" list.
From a "bang for the buck" standpoint, you may be right: we might've been better off street-sweeping with her as my sidekick. We like doing missions, though.
[ QUOTE ]
Personally I am done doing exemplaring until they fix the mob run bug. I can't stand getting to a mission and having everything run. You know, like somebody forgot to tell the mob that you aren't lvl 42 anymore?
[/ QUOTE ]
AMEN to that. Try doing a RSK in the woods of PP, you rush a mob of 20, kill 2, and get cheapshotted for the next 30 min by the runners comin back.
[ QUOTE ]
the point the exemplar is to help the lower lvl guy get xp faster. stop being so selfish and think of other people for once.
[/ QUOTE ]
Funny, I thought the point was to let you have fun with friends that don't play the game as much.
The developers really need to take another look at what they did with the influence rates. The sell rate for enhancements is less then half of what it used to be. Which has really hurt those who do not die often.
A friend and I had thouht exemlar would do the trick, but the influence rate is way too low to be of any use what so ever to the exemplared person. They should, and need to, earn influence at their normal rate for their non-exemplared level without gaining xp.
Do you realize that merely by leveling, and the enhancements going red, that character is now much weaker then if it had not leveled?
I call that a design flaw.
Being an exemplar doesn't suck.
[ QUOTE ]
Do you realize that merely by leveling, and the enhancements going red, that character is now much weaker then if it had not leveled?
I call that a design flaw.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've thought of this once or twice, and while I hate to thread-jack I felt the urge to voice my opinion. On one hand, it could be said that the devs want you to think ahead, and plan for your next group of enhancements before you need them. On the other hand, it could be said that this is really pantsy and a horrible nuisance because sometimes when you're having fun killing things and doing missions, it's easy to forget that "one more mission and I bork my enhancements."
The maximum level on enhancements can't be removed, as that would result in people leaving in lvl 25 SO's and never upgrading (although I can think of ways to curb that), but a more punitive (while not as strict as it is now) system would allow you a bit of leeway, ie: the level an enhancement turns red, it decreases in effectiveness by one tier (from SO to DO effectiveness, DO to Training, and Training to borked). The next level, it takes another step down. This way you WILL notice a big difference, but it's not impossible to re-outfit yourself (I don't know about everyone else, but I rarely have enough influence to buy an entire set of new enhancements when I outgrow my last ones, and non-training enhancements don't drop very often for me (though I don't have enough experience with the high-end to tell if this changes).
Anyway... Sorry for thread-jacking. Just brainstorming.
Yeah, the fact that enhancements are often outleveled before I can afford to replace them it not cool. My solution so far has been to get myself into perma debt. Not only can I afford to buy new enhancements now, but I also get to finish all my missions and story arcs.
(oh and I got the unbroken spirit badge the first day I did that hehe)
[ QUOTE ]
Let's see, for the priviledge of playing with a low-level friend, I get: Reduced power set.
No xp, but debt reduction at 100%
If no debt, I get "low-level" xp converted to Influence.
[/ QUOTE ]
The reduced power set is a good thing. Imagine if I not only had Golden Dragonfly at lvl22 but also has it slotted with 6 damages? I'd be one-shotting everything short of a boss at that level.
[ QUOTE ]
Being an exemplar doesn't suck.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed, it's fun.
Exemplaring does have a sweet spot, it's in the 30s when lots of heroes are powerful enough to take down large groups of mobs fast. So if you're level 40+ and mired in debt, RSK with a level 32+ friend and kiss your debt goodbye.
If I am going to lose all of my powers above the level I am exemplared to, as well as the bonus from my enhancements, etc, I want my debt if I am killed to equal that of a character of the level I am exemplared to... do that, and I'll be satisfied!
^_^
[ QUOTE ]
Not very good for a power gamer viewpoint, but nice from a fun/rp viewpoint.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with the OP. Since I started playing at release and my highest level is 36, I am hardly a power gamer. But going into battle with both hands and one foot tied behind my back doesn't sound fun to me at all. I earned those powers, and I see no reason to give them up.
On the other hand, using the powers and slots at lower levels would be seriously unbalanced. Even if I exemplared my 36 blaster down to 10, I would still be using multiple attacks (6-slotted with SOs) against mobs that are supposed to be challenging to people with few attacks, minimal slotting, and training enhancements. My lower level friends would still be sitting there watching me kill everything -- they would just be getting exp for it.
I don't know if there is a system that will make everybody happy. But I don't intend to use this one.
Mercurial
[ QUOTE ]
If I am going to lose all of my powers above the level I am exemplared to, as well as the bonus from my enhancements, etc, I want my debt if I am killed to equal that of a character of the level I am exemplared to... do that, and I'll be satisfied!
^_^
[/ QUOTE ]
You so poor thing.
[ QUOTE ]
Exemplars get *nothing* of value for doing it. Risk does NOT equal reward here... we're still at risk.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, if you're a badge hunter, there's a great advantage to being an examplar. Not only can you get any of the mission badges you missed, but also work on the kill 100 badges. Of course, being able to do the task forces you missed will also come into play eventually.
[ QUOTE ]
If no debt, I get "low-level" xp converted to Influence.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you have debt, you pay it off 100% as if you were killing mobs at your level, not the lower level character. If you have no debt, you get influence as if you were killing mobs at your level. Exp and Influence aren't lowered to the other persons level.
[ QUOTE ]
Exemplars get *nothing* of value for doing it. Risk does NOT equal reward here... we're still at risk. When we are defeated, we get *more* debt to pay off, and more liklihood of debt as we have gimped powers.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, we get the ability to play with our friends who may not have as much time as we do to dedicate to this game. I've gone from soloing with strangers to playing with friends ALL the time. That sounds like a *HUGE* perk to me.
[ QUOTE ]
In all cases, I'd rather Sidekick them up than Exemplar down. Simply paying off my debt faster is not a reward, and neither is influence.
[/ QUOTE ]
Unless you have three friends at level 20, and you're at level 30. Which two do you leave behind?
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I can also play with my friends if I either SK them, or roll a new toon to level up with them. Both are better options to my mind than using the Exemplar system.
[/ QUOTE ]
Great - so go make a new character and leave those of us who LIKE our characters to go play with our friends.
I found that exemplared I get no enhancement drops anymore. Has anyone else found this too?
I just wish they'd fix it so you could do the TF's you missed already. That's the only thing I wanted this system for in the first place. Oh, well, I'm patient, it'll come soon I hope. 
I agree that exemplars need to retain their full powerset.
If they don't, that's just plain retarded, because they don't get experience either.
I was a fan of this "feature"... until I tried it a few times.
Let's see, for the priviledge of playing with a low-level friend, I get: Reduced power set.
No xp, but debt reduction at 100%
If no debt, I get "low-level" xp converted to Influence.
Reducing my debt is nice, but wouldn't I be better off just continuing to hunt at my level? That's progression, albeit slow. It's not like I'm *not* paying off my debt doing that. Not to mention I'm getting full influence as well.
Exemplars get *nothing* of value for doing it. Risk does NOT equal reward here... we're still at risk. When we are defeated, we get *more* debt to pay off, and more liklihood of debt as we have gimped powers.
Devs, is there a reason why there's no logical reason to Exemplar, other than to *maybe* pick up a couple badges for missions?
In all cases, I'd rather Sidekick them up than Exemplar down. Simply paying off my debt faster is not a reward, and neither is influence.
Suggestions:
Keep the system the way it is, but let us have all our powers. Simply reduce our enhancements down to the appropriate level.
Award *significant* influence when you have no debt. I'm talking like 2-3 times what we'd make off even cons at our own level. *That* would make the risk = reward a little closer, even though high level heroes don't need the influence much anyway.
As it is right now, an Exemplar is at a huge disadvantage, and not getting anything out of it in return. "But you get to play with your friends!"
Yeah, I can also play with my friends if I either SK them, or roll a new toon to level up with them. Both are better options to my mind than using the Exemplar system.