Update # 3 - Anyone?

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Just a minor point but since when was being half vampire natural? (Blade) Not sure which origin to fit it in (probably mutant - he was born that way) but certainly not natural...

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Yeah, I'd say Mutant, due to abberant genetics.

I'd say that Blade would be of magical origin, as vampires are mythic/magical/supernatural creatures.

For example, would a Vampire hero be considered "Natural".

No, because we're using a regular avg beer swilling joe as the template.

Think of your avg human.

Now, add vampirism (the supernatural kind).

This produces a Vampire, and the powers that come with it are due to the vampirism. Therefore the Character's origin is magical (because vampirism is magical in nature).

Statesman may have said statesman is natural, but i'm talking about superman.

I'm talking about Superman, and I'm just going to quote the PMs:

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What origin is Superman?

Sent to: Statesman

I've had discussions (who am I kidding, arguements) with people about which of the 5 origins in CoH that Superman would be. Most say he's natural, a couple say he's science, but I seem to be the only one who thinks he's mutant.

I say this because Naturals train to get their powers. Mutants are born with them. Superman got his powers after being under the yellow sun for an extended period, not by training extensively. Sure he had to learn how to use them, but not any further than a human had to learn to walk.

So I'm PMing you because you invented the origins (or at least I assume you did) and am hoping you could put this problem to rest once and for all.

(This was longer than 4 sentences, but that's just for suggestions, right?)



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And his reply:

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Re: What origin is Superman?

From: Statesman

Natural.



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EDIT: On Blade, yes, vampires are magical. But, he is not a vampire. He is a half-vampire, so therefore, he was not inflicted with vampirism, he was born with it, i.e. abberant genetics i.e. Mutant Origin.

There's no genetic abberation however.

If he had developed a mutation that mimicked vampirism, then yes, he would be a mutant.

However, the origin of his half-vampirism powers is not aberrerant genes (because no mutation occured), but instead through the inherent magical nature of his vampiric parentage.

Statesman says Superman has a Natural Origin?

Well, statesman's wrong.

Dude, Statesman can't be wrong about his own game.

And if you want to make Blade a Magic origin, go right ahead.

Since when did this post (about Issue 3 possibilities) (Issue 3 The Good the Bad the Subhumanoid) turn into How certain characters got there powers?












p.s. Superman's Natural

You know, I don't remember...

EDIT: Oh yeah, it started with me showing someone some options for a natural travel power after they asked for some natural-esque travel powers in Update 3. (I'd still like a Batman-esque Grapple for upward movement and Zipline for forward movement, sure it'd take a while but it'd be a blast)
And then someone posted on origins, then I posted how he had a couple errors, then a person posted disagreeing that Superman isn't natural.........

And... yeah.

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Dude, Statesman can't be wrong about his own game.

And if you want to make Blade a Magic origin, go right ahead.

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Ahem, no game can completely duplicate fiction. Fiction is far too fluid, in all reality, the fictional characters mostly fall in between the gaps of the origins.

However, just because you use magic doesn't necessarily mean you have to take the magic origin.

DnD wizards I would not place under the magic origin because a high powered wizard can still be completely independent of any influence by higher powers. A high powered magic origin NEEDS that aid or he falters (limits himself to the DOs). DnD priests and Dragonlance wizards are more analogous to the CoH magic origin.

A D&D wizard studies and studies and studies and hones his body and mind by sheer training to channel cosmic forces. He does not turn to Hermes or Joule or anybody else and say, hey, I want power. That's seems more in the realm of natural to me than anything else. And it is backed up because the naturals use relics as one of their DOs.

Same with a werewolf, unless the werewolf is a priest of some kind, he doesn't demand power from anywhere but himself. As he continues, he grows more powerful, but all the power comes from with in. Sounds more like a mutation than a magic.

To put simply:

Magic and Technology get power from sources outside the hero himself.

Science was granted the power from external sources but afterwards it is entirely internal and not dependent on outside influence save in improving it.

Mutants are generally born with the power or are altered to a degree beyond what a science hero is. They develop naturally.

Naturals build their own power and work very hard to acheive the pinnacle of their ability.

In all cases, the power is the same. Lightning cast by a mage is the same as lightning fired by a tech-blaster.

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Dude, Statesman can't be wrong about his own game.

And if you want to make Blade a Magic origin, go right ahead.

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Ahem, no game can completely duplicate fiction. Fiction is far too fluid, in all reality, the fictional characters mostly fall in between the gaps of the origins.

However, just because you use magic doesn't necessarily mean you have to take the magic origin.

DnD wizards I would not place under the magic origin because a high powered wizard can still be completely independent of any influence by higher powers. A high powered magic origin NEEDS that aid or he falters (limits himself to the DOs). DnD priests and Dragonlance wizards are more analogous to the CoH magic origin.

A D&D wizard studies and studies and studies and hones his body and mind by sheer training to channel cosmic forces. He does not turn to Hermes or Joule or anybody else and say, hey, I want power. That's seems more in the realm of natural to me than anything else. And it is backed up because the naturals use relics as one of their DOs.

Same with a werewolf, unless the werewolf is a priest of some kind, he doesn't demand power from anywhere but himself. As he continues, he grows more powerful, but all the power comes from with in. Sounds more like a mutation than a magic.

To put simply:

Magic and Technology get power from sources outside the hero himself.

Science was granted the power from external sources but afterwards it is entirely internal and not dependent on outside influence save in improving it.

Mutants are generally born with the power or are altered to a degree beyond what a science hero is. They develop naturally.

Naturals build their own power and work very hard to acheive the pinnacle of their ability.

In all cases, the power is the same. Lightning cast by a mage is the same as lightning fired by a tech-blaster.

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Again... I shall quote the origins.
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The magical hero receives his powers from a magical source. These abilities might stem from a mystical artifact that the hero has gained over the years - or perhaps the hero has mastered numerous spells that provide him with superhuman gifts.


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In other words, DnD wizards=Magic.

And yes, no game can completely copy fiction. But out of the 5 origins that are available to us, Superman=Natural.

He uses powers common to his race, i.e. Super Strength, flight, blah blah is no big deal to any Kryptonian who isn't under the influence of a red sun. Plus, Superman when he was 14 is nowhere near as good as Superman at 30. Why? Loads of practice. That pretty much falls in the Natural line too.

well, we'll just have to agree to disagree, because until they provide an SO that doesn't requisite a connection to a higher power, I will continue to consider to common D&D mage as more of a natural than a magic origin

Yeah, I found that a bit odd too... probably one of the reasons I shy away from magic origin even though I am a rabid fan of wizards. Maybe if it was something like Awareness, where you have greater understanding of magical forces.

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I'd like to see other areas of the city. So far we only really have industrial, parks, and commerical areas. I'd like to see some residental areas myself. Or maybe any zone that's a little more sparse and open, kinda like the hollows ony even more sparse.

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Residential Zones (based on zone history) Kings Row, Brickstown, Founder's Falls

Wide Open Zone Eden

They are there, you will find them

Also Atlas and Galaxy look like they might have a few apartments in em. And I'm damn sure those giant skyscrapers in Steel Canyon aren't all office space.

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How about a title...

Expansion 3: A Council of War

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How about fixing the mess that Update #2 has caused before even thinking about a new Update, Statesman. I am finding it very difficult to sign on and play CoH at this point. And even the stuff on the Training Room is not fixing the main problems. Sad... My whole SG is on the verge of cancelling their subscriptions.

*Strolls in casually late*

Besides the things mentioned here:

- Customized Weapons and Power Signature Effects

- Trench Coats

- Super Secret Out of Combat System.(whatever that may be, I know I want it...at least I think I want it.)

- New AT's: Bow, Sonic, Quarterstaff, Dual Pistols...

- Player Bases

- Funky fruit hats & Furry Fruit Bats(make this happen!)

- New Stone and Ice Armor graphics(although I kinda like my Tankers Brown Boy and Cube)

- Improved SG screen(something along the lines of the new Seek Team Screen, showing level and location)

- Animalistic Costume Options

My 2 biggest pie in the sky, never gonna happen wishes for CoH happen to be:

- When you get PvP figured out, actually open a Super Lanes, or call it the Hero Bowl or whatever you want. Put it in Galaxy City. Inside have an Arena area, gladiator style with spectator seating just not as huge. Then have a first come-first served numbered appointment schedule where single or teamed Heroes could square off against each other. No debt. The victor gets to /emote for 10 seconds after the win then walk out , the defeated spawns at the enterance of the Arena area. You could even have a betting system.

Along with the Arena have an actual bowling minigame. You and your friends grab a lane, set up the order, then when it's your turn you click on the ball-getter thinger and the Bowling screen comes up first-person style. Something like those old arcade stand-ups so it would be twitchy which might prove difficult with online lag, which this whole thing would produce a lot of anyway. Or instance it. Have Primary Powers affect the bowling game ala Fire might burn down an extra pin, Ice might crack a pin to bits or weaken it, Illusion might make one disappear, Gravity might yank one out... something like that. Have the difficulty based off of skill first with a bonus for security level. So a so-so Level 40 hero bowling against a very good level 20 hero would have an advantage, but it's not such an advantage that skill couldnt overcome. Or the lower level Hero gets a handicap. Add a utility for leagues and a Powers/no-powers option. This probably isnt practical to implement technically or worth devoting manhours on something so trivial, but I wouldnt mind seeing it and this is a wishlist after all.

- My second lagtastic wish is to have Enhancement Vending Machines. Place them at the Rail stations or in the main public areas. Or for the love of all that is holy to you at Freedom Plaza in Kings Row. Allow one per City Zone(Atlas, Galaxy, Kings for Training. Steel, Skyway for Training and DO's. Talos, IP for DO's and SO's etc..). Players would be allowed to load 10 Enhancements only. Once the Enhancements are loaded they cant be taken back as to prevent the Vending machine from becoming a mule. Seller can however delete or replace any Enhancement. Prices can be adjusted by the seller. When an Enhancment is sold the Influence is automatically added to the sellers total. Price limits would be set. ex: You got a Lv.32 Single Origin Damage drop. In your Origin shop Lv.30 Damage Enhancements go for 30k inf and Lv.35s go for 36k inf. So your pricing window might be between 27k inf to 33k inf. The higher you go in level the wider the gap. As far as a story for why there would be Enhancement Vending Machines, I have no idea. Then again I dont know the story behind Enhancements.



You wouldnt get rich off the Vending Machines and it certainly wouldnt create an economy. What it would do is allow for players to get enhancements at those odd levels when the ones they have(if they didnt combine) yellow out and they cant equip the next level enhancements. Also it would allow the player to combine and squeek out an extra level of effectiveness instead of just dropping the new enhancement over the old. This isnt a problem at the lower levels as Training Enhancements are plenty and everybody can use them. My main is a Lv. 27 Mutation Scrapper using as many SO's as I can. I have gained bucketloads of Natural Enhancements. I can count the Mutation drops Ive gotten on one hand. Yes, I can go out streetsweeping certain mobs to get the right drops but I like doing missions.(Sorry, didnt mean to go off on a tangent there) This is just people helping people, i believe possible technically, and worthwhile in my opinion.

Anyway, there is my nifty wishes. Im rambling and its late(early?)

Oh god, you think these things come out every 2 weeks?

They've had Update #3 in planning since before Issue #2 was even on Test Server. If they have a half a brain between them they'll fix the bugs first.

As long as you can write a story you're happy with for why someone has their powers for their origin what does it matter what others think? My dark/dark scrapper is natural, I consider the dark energies he uses to be the physical manifestation of all his inner negative emotions which comes from no other source then himself.

As for what we'll see in issue 3 I'm thinking bows have a good chance of being in it. A portal to go to a new high level area called Praetorian Earth or something (I'd love to take the war to them). And the out of combat system I'm hoping will be something to do with building up the story and world around your charecter to influence the world in game by people with the best results will get something in game as a reward like prehaps posters in the city with their hero on, or a statue.

The way I see it is the humans in City of Heroes have no limits to what they can do if they put their minds to it.

I've got a Fire/Stone melee who's natural, the Mountain Child's spirit inside him was awakened by a Volcano god, and now he must master the powers he never knew he had.

I say whatever people want to make, they can make it. Really it all comes down to what DOs/SOs you want to use.

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How about a title...

Expansion 3: A Council of War

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So speaks the Statesman. WOOT!!!
So that must mean.....

1) New Hero Creation Options
2) New Fighting classes including Bows & Arrows and Sonic Blast
3) Customizeable weapons and customizable colors of your powers (like instead of purple electricity, you can actually shoot white or yellow electricity
4) Year's supply of cheese to go with all the WHINE!!!

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Mutant: Werewolf by Night (supernatural power that is internally supported), any X-Men, Zelgadis Greywords, Superman (alien, inborn power), Hannibal King, Hulk (his power develops fairly naturally, he rarely tampers with it), any Gold Digger lycanthrope, the High Magus from Rifts (the ones that slowly become creatures of magic), most dragons

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Some of these I have to disagree with. First of all, remember what the word Mutant means. It implies mutation, or even more loosely, evolved. Superman hasn't mutated. His powers come from a natural effect of sunlight mixing with his species' physiology. Any and every Kryptonian is the same. On the same note, any 'Alien', really, would be a Natural, as long as they're a representative specimen of their race. At least until they put in an Alien AT, that is. They're completely normal and natural for their own people. Let's not be prejudice and judge everything by 'Human' standards, everyone.

Hannibal King? I honestly don't know his origin, although I've read him in several comics. I'd always thought he was 'created' with magic/supernatural powers. I could be wrong, however.

Hulk. Science, easily. It was ascientific accident that triggered his change. It triggered a mutation, yes, however it was still a scientific accident, and not a 'normal/natural' mutation.

Dragons and Gold Digger Lycanthropes, I'd have to both argue are Natural. They are both natural creatures/being/animals that exist in nature (Well, in sci-fi/fantasy reality anyway). Now, Tiamat may be a mutation, however dragons as a whole are not. Dragons are dragons. And since GD Lycanthropes are exist in nature and breed, live, and die like any other creature, and have for millenia, instead of having 'The Curse', they're natural as well.

When classifying something as a Mutation, a good guideline is to determine whether or not the 'character' in question differs from the norm of the species/race that he belongs to. That's the way that I look at it.

Couple of more things I thought of over this weekend.

Couple of new indoor map layout ideas.

Museums - People panicing, Egyptian, Greek, Native American etc. artifcats around, with the Velvet Ropes, Magical Artifacts, The Artifact box we already have, portals, Crystals (CoT stuff). - Mission could be stop a villian group from finding an artifact thats the final piece they need. (Goes along with the current theme of some arcs, but this would be a musuem, as oppose to a warehouse or office building.

Banks - This would be a small map, Lobby area, and vault and back employee rooms, with some partitions in the main lobby. and the tellers row. - This is how I thought the layout should be. - You open the outer door, and your in a small area, with a glass door, that you can look in. You'll see lots of villians, and people lying on the ground, (ala hostage style). There's an ATM machine in this little lobby area. The purpose of the lobby area, will be to wait for your team mates who have slower loading speeds, to be in the mission before it "starts", you can get your team buffs ready, then open the door and the fun starts. - Since the levels will be small, you could have a timed mission say, to stop 5 bank robberies, within an hour or so. Even if different zones, like 1 in Steel Canyon, 1 in Skyway, 1 in Talos etc. - In addition to being able to defeat the bad guys, you need to be able to get around Paragon City pretty good and know your way around, including short cuts, like dance party, or Teleport Friend, to help the slower people on your team etc.

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How about a title...

Expansion 3: A Council of War

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So, assuming this is, like the other issue titles, a literary reference, any idea what the reference is? I searched Google for a while, and I only came up with these:

PG Wodehouse : Love Among the Chickens : Chapter XIV. A Council of War
William H. Duquette: Through Darkest Zymurgia! : Chapter 12. A Council of War
Charlotte Perkins Gilman "A Council of War" (short story)

Comments?

You are the biggest tease I know...Slowly...killing..me!

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How about a title...

Expansion 3: A Council of War

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However, and for those who do not know, superman gets his powers from our sun (if I remember right). That being said, is it not possible that superman would have a science origin?

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Except for one problem: All Kryptonians gain the exact same powers from any yellow star/sun, so this becomes a natural property for the Kryptonian race. However, I would still qualify Superman as Science Origin for one very specific reason: he was geneticly altered by his father so that he could escape past the "Eradicator" that Kal-El's grandfather created that kept all of Krypton prisoner on their dieing planet.

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PG Wodehouse : Love Among the Chickens : Chapter XIV. A Council of War
William H. Duquette: Through Darkest Zymurgia! : Chapter 12. A Council of War
Charlotte Perkins Gilman "A Council of War" (short story)


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Treasure Island, Chaper 12: Council of War.

Not sure if that is scarier than the Wodehouse possibility.