RamsFan

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Casual gaming is dead. I'm out, /salute.

Take care everyone.

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Unfortunately my SG and I are very close to this same decision. There is no doubt that casual gaming is dead in CoH. It surely was short-lived. If I could see some progress in fixing the problems on Training Room, I might stick around, but the patch notes and actual gaming are not in agreement. Sad!

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... Patrols have been cut in size by half. The mission difficulty fix is being tested on the Training Room server. ...

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If it is really on the Training Room, it is not working. I have tested several missions with copied toons. The missions on TR are spawning just like they are on Guardian.

Additionally the +1 Bosses are chain casting stuns, sleeps, holds and AoEs. For a L11 Scrapper it is impossible to defeat a +1 Boss (Bone Daddy) who is aided by a +1 Lt. Personally I have seen no difference in the missions on TR under the current patch.

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Then do this if you see problems on test after the +1 fix comes out. REPORT IT. You know, /bug. Let the devs know so you all can stop complaining and thinking this was done on purpose.

This was an unintenial side effect to getting ride of front loaded missions. Deal with it. Nothing is perfect. Random bugs occur.

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A patch note on patch in testing on Training Room right now says the +1 problem has been fixed. I have tested it with two different toons copied from Guardian and can tell you it has not been fixed. The missions are still spawning exactly the same as they did on the regular server. I have filed numerous Bug Reports on the problem, but I have some real problems accepting that bug reports do any good at all. If they did, I don't think the problems with Update #2 would have happened.

It comes back to one word... credibility.

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Nah. They said it was a bug while trying to get rid of the frontloaded missions. I have no reason to think that they are lying to us considering the honesty I've seen up to now.

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Maybe not lying per se, but the whole situation casts a lot of doubt on credibility. For instance... in testing patch notes say the fix is on the Training Room. It is not!

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How about a title...

Expansion 3: A Council of War

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How about fixing the mess that Update #2 has caused before even thinking about a new Update, Statesman. I am finding it very difficult to sign on and play CoH at this point. And even the stuff on the Training Room is not fixing the main problems. Sad... My whole SG is on the verge of cancelling their subscriptions.

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Learn to play the damn game better instead of whining on the forums that you can't handle it. If you spent half the time you spend whining on these forums about the challenge of the game, you'd have the tough stuff beat and be done with it.

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I think the problem is they (we) did learn to play the game... and then the game was changed. This is not the same game it was before Issue #2 came out. Some people prefer it the way it was, not the way it is. How is that not a valid point? Some people did find it challenging before and did "die" before, but were also able to occasionally level as a reward for their efforts. Now, leveling takes twice as long because they (we) are perpetually in debt, missions take forever because we have to use hit-and-run tactics on even white and blue mobs. How can you claim there is no validity to a point when a vast number of people subscribe to it? Yes, your point is valid... there should be a challenge. I don't think people disagree with that. But I think what people are saying is that the challenge pre-Issue 2 was, for them, enough... The current level of challenge is too much.

For you to blindly dismiss that point is unfair and thoughtless. Particularly because if enough people share that point of view, they will eventually start leaving the game... and enough of them leave the game, then YOU will have no game to play. If nothing else motivates you to at least recognize the validity of the concern and begin to address the merits of it, then at least look at it from the perspective of your own self-interest in making sure this game sticks around. (And no, I'm not saying I'm going to cancel my subscription, just pointing it out as a fact... If the game isn't fun for people, they stop playing.)

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Extremely well stated! I think this is the problem with many MMORPGs. The power gamers want the game so hard that it drives the casual gamers away. Unfortunately neither wants to see or accept the other's position or feelings.

Personally, I am pretty much a casual gamer and find the changes made in Update #2 along with some serious bugs has just about ruined the fun in CoH for me. I have thoroughly enjoyed the game, which I started playing when the open BETA was available for preorders, until the drastic changes and/or bugs introduced in Update #2.

As stated in a previous message above, it does not appear to me that Cryptic is addressing the problems as Statesman indicated they would. The current patch in testing on the Training Room server does not fix many of the things that are so drastically wrong with the game after Update #2.

Statesman,

If you are still monitoring this thread... I just spent over an hour in the Training Room trying out the latest patch (9/23). My L15 Energy Blaster entered a mission dungeon that he had tried prior to this patch. The problem with +1 MOBs HAS NOT BEEN FIXED. The first room he entered had 4 +1 OJ Lts., and a slew of +1 yellow minions. This was almost the exact same MOB spawn pattern I saw with this dungeon prior to this patch.

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Fine, Statesman, but how about the mission I had today (1 hour timed) to take out Sidokan and His Coven with my L18 Energy/Energy Blaster. The overall mission not too bad in spite of a number of +1 Astral Followers until I got to the Boss (+1 RED) who cast stuns and holds in chains so that the toon could not move, run, attack or anything until dead. He died twice trying to take the boss out and finally gave up and let the mission time out. I have done this mission before Update #2 with other alts and never had this kind of experience. Bug? I have petitioned it.


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It is a bug. Petition away - though we're working on a fix.

Oh - forgot another change - shrunk the size of wandering patrols.

These are most certainly reactions; had we seen this better on the Training Room server we would have changed each and every one.

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Working on a fix for this mission is fine, but that in no way takes care of the 1900 needless debt my toon accrued nor the xp I missed out on because I failed the mission. Since we don't know what missions are bugged, would you then suggest that maybe we just quit playing until the repairs are made?

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I don't know if what Statesman said was truly the intentions or not. I DO know that this rollout went against MANY things he has said previous to this issue. I'll believe the actions for now, thank you.


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Hmmm. So the fact that we've....

1) rolled back stun attacks on Trolls and Outcasts
2) removed stun from Nemesis minions
3) made the Terra Volta trial easier several times
4) fixed the bug where Rikti Greater Swords were doing double their damage
5) Shrunk the level range at the entrance of the Hollows
6) Moved Contacts in the Hollows into safer locations

Does those actions perhaps support my "intentions..." about the lower levels?

I cannot stress enough - the +1 mobs everywhere are a BUG. We did NOT notice them on the Training Room server. It happens. I made a mistake. We're fixing it (though it isn't live yet).

Oh - we did make Nemesis and Rikti more difficult by giving them more powers - at the higher levels.

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Fine, Statesman, but how about the mission I had today (1 hour timed) to take out Sidokan and His Coven with my L18 Energy/Energy Blaster. The overall mission not too bad in spite of a number of +1 Astral Followers until I got to the Boss (+1 RED) who cast stuns and holds in chains so that the toon could not move, run, attack or anything until dead. He died twice trying to take the boss out and finally gave up and let the mission time out. I have done this mission before Update #2 with other alts and never had this kind of experience. Bug? I have petitioned it.

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I believe the fix to the number of +1 mobs is in a patch being tested. I do not know when that'll go live; it depends upon what we find in it.

Mission difficulty slider - I won't make any promises until I'm sure of a date, but I have stated I want this as soon as the schedule allows. Issue 3? I'd love it; but there's a TON of things to consider and I don't want to roll something out that isn't satisfactory.

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If the +1 MOB patch is being tested, it is not on the Training Room server. I just checked as I wanted to recopy my L17 Energy Blaster over and try a mission there he is currently holding. The Training Room version number and the current live version number are the same.

For clarification are you saying that any adjustments such as a difficulty slider will have to wait for update #3?

My personal observation is that if it is going to take another three months to provide some kind of relief for casual players in the +22 group, then many will probably leave for WoW and/or EQ2. The remaining folks in my SG have already stated as much.

I have a L33 Electricity Blaster that I no longer like to play because of the xp grind, severity of mission difficulty and lack of substantive rewards. Most of my alts are approaching the L22 threshhold and when playing them ceases to be fun then I will be gone.

I have really enjoyed the CoH experience up to the UD#2 changes that seem to have been gauged for the power gamers without any consideration for the casual gamers. One of the attractions for me for CoH was the casual gamer friendliness of the game. UD#2 seems to have put quite a damper on that aspect. I love a fun challenge, but I do not like a gruelling gaming experience that is almost impossible to do even with tactics.

Trying not to be negative and just my 2 influence on the situation.

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We're going to be tweaking with 22+ mobs soon...they'll be tougher, and give more XP....

Plus, we'll put in a difficulty slider (can't promise a time yet or else my producer will kill me).

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Hmmm... I am personally not happy about this. Without a slider and harder 22+ mobs, this is one account that CoH will lose. I have really liked the game, but I do not like missions and game play that is so hard as to no longer be fun. Update #2 has really hurt the game IMHO.