Archvillains: Not working as planned.
By
Aegys,
Posted on: 2004-09-14 04:09 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I'll just add that I think AVs should be considered just like the Group Only missions where you have to hit more than one switch. Keep them out of my story arc missions. That's my preference, at any rate.
As far as AVs themselves, I don't think they should be soloable. Sure Spidey fights Doc Ock alone, heck Batman fights several AVs at the same time when he is solo, but the AVs in this game are the pinnacle and should not be soloable...
Perhaps by Epic Archetypes though...
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Wait till you finally reach 40+. We'll see what you're saying then.
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I am 40+ and I LOVE Archvillains in normal missions. It's good I don't have to waste 3-6+ hours to see one in a TF.
To the OP, The bigman himself posted this on soloing this game in another post
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The Statesman has stated, recently, that everything in CoH should be soloable for every AT.
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That is NOT what I said. Every Archetype can solo. Everything? Certainly not. Every Archetype, if they don't feel like teaming up, can at least go out and fight crime on the city streets. Many missions are solo-able - but not EVERY mission.
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It should be stated that Statesman likely meant even-con minions, in reasonable numbers, and not Archvillains, should be soloable by all ATs at a decent rate of speed.
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This is closer to the spirit of my statement - but the crux here is "decent rate of speed." Some Archetypes do it faster than others. Controllers, and to a degree Defenders & Tankers, solo slowly. That's totally acceptable.
What isn't acceptable right now is that some Archetypes solo slowly AND aren't so needed in groups. And that's what I'm focused on at the moment.
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I think it sums up his ideas, especially the part about "Solo everything? Certainly not."
You know I really have to hand it to the dev team for responding to people, I have never seen this type of feedback in any other game.
Plus, I have been the lvl 33, 34, and now 35 scrapper to help take down the Envoy of Shadows Archvillian on many occassions. I am more than happy to help out anybody. I hope when I finally get to the mission for myself that people are the same 
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I soloed Dr. Vahz..................when i was 3 levels higher than him. And it was still hard.
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When I met up with Doc Vlaz I couldn't beat him alone. I burned an entire END bar plus an entire tray of Catch a Breaths and I was only able to get him down to about half HP. After that he healed faster than I could do damage. Lucky thing he hits like a little girl. My Crane Kicks were barely doing any damage at all though, even with Focus Chi up. I eventually had to go back and find a blaster willing to help me finish the job.
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I really want to know if there is a AT that can take down a +2 or +3 AV solo...
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I was level 17 doing the Positron mission with the Clockwork King at the end. (I started it at level 16 and leveled during the task force as part of normal task force xp.)
The King was only orange to me, but our whole group got wiped out multiple times (I had on the order of 4200 debt when we gave up. That was about 6 quick death's worth.)
We gave up, but just quit rather than end the task force. We agreed to try again the next day at 11 AM (it was a weekend.) I logged on at 11:15, and two others were there, having cleared out the repopulated mission of almost everything but the AV. I helped them finish it off. We tried again (defender, controller, and me, a scrapper.) I hit hasten, clicked follow up, and started wailing away (very well-stocked scrapper, btw.) Wiped out very quickly. Tried again using pets first (my bad, didn't know the controller had 'em.) and did much better, but still got wiped.
We went outside to do street monsters for awhile to try to level up the 3 of us and try again -- so close, just one monster to go for the SO.
Didn't level up, but while doing that, a fourth logged in, and was surprised to see he was still in the TF. "What the hell", he said. A tank, fortunately.
This time we went back in. I had bought six heals with me, along with two acc, one damage, and one shield inspiration.
This time, we did it. I died though, just before the AV was killed, er, arrested. I got the xp, but did NOT get an SO.
1. Do SO drop for Positron's task force?
2. If so, do they always drop, or just sometimes?
3. Does being dead, but still in the mission, mean you won't get the SO? Does it have anything to do with it, or was I just unlucky, my death having nothing to do with it?
"Hey! You knocked generic cola all over your precious D20 books!"
ED: Now I know how Nancy Kerrigan felt: "Why...?!? Why...?!?"
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I think a better solution would be to have an alternate, AV-less mission to choose whenever an AV mission comes up
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Only if you get a permanent hit to your influence for "being a coward". Seriously. Who would hold in high regard a "hero" who made other heroes do the dirty work.
This is especially true for those who do the mission, then get a level 50 to kill the AV for them.
Some sort of anti-badge, a badge of shame, should be awarded, and it should show up on the person's info when in the targetting window, like their supergroup, so you can see it immediately on targetting them.
Eh, there also should be badges of shame that so-and-so never fought any tough monsters, just went around AOE-blasting blues and whites, running away from lieutenants.
"OMG, you're the loser from the stats kiosk!" When will that go live?
"Hey! You knocked generic cola all over your precious D20 books!"
ED: Now I know how Nancy Kerrigan felt: "Why...?!? Why...?!?"
Uh people team up withing minutes to defeat Dr. Vhaz. It usually only takes five minutes after a broadcast to get the needed help and that is often a full team.
Hell duos can take him out.
A rad defender or forcefield defender and scrapper and he is toast.
I have met scrappers who could have soloed him if they had stamina at level 17.
A level 20 blaster, a scrapper sidekicked to 19 and a level 18 FF defender made mince meat out of a level 18 Dr. Vhaz. He ran from us. Hell at four levels above he couldn't touch my blaster. I could have brawled him to death.
Your pal and you are just big wussies.
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I think a better solution would be to have an alternate, AV-less mission to choose whenever an AV mission comes up
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Only if you get a permanent hit to your influence for "being a coward". Seriously. Who would hold in high regard a "hero" who made other heroes do the dirty work.
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Mandingo, how I grok your mouth music!
Well Devs i love AVs i wish there were more in the game. I also wish there was a level between boss and AV that we would see more like "Super Villian" or something along those lines that we could solo easier.
By the way i soloed Bobcat with my tanker. She's cake just all damage and then you get her down some and she does most the work for you by using unstoppable. She does like 10K damage to herself once it wheres off. You just have to weather the inbetween time which isn't to hard(Just gathered all her minions around me so Invincibility was jacked up through the roof and healed with dull pain whenever she actually hit me which was mostly just with the streak breaker hit). Bile was pretty easy to solo too as was Nemesis.
Now no way in hell could i solo Anti-Matter or The Carnie AV. All kinds of fun tricks they pull out.
But those are the most fun kinda fights that take lots of stategy to overcome. Standing there and taking a half hour to slowly grind down an AV solo is no fun at all. I want a tough interesting fight that is very challenge but maybe only lasts 2-3 minutes top. Flashy and adventurous thats the way a Super Hero game should be! I also want to get knocked through the wall behind me by the AV then i get up and knock him through the wall behind him. Then we continue to duke it out.
So AVs are awesome Devs and i inspire to fight as many as i can. Can't wait to take on the Tyrant. I plan on trying to solo him as much as possible before i even go get a group if i must.
Cuz think of it! If i can solo him i can take the Statesman!!!
(Still waiting for destructable terrain...comon it would be sweet)
Now officially fed up with the "if you like to solo why do you play this - or any other MMO - game?" response.
Answers (pick all that apply)
- None of your business.
- The option of grouping or soloing should be at the players sole discretion. It is pleasant to have both options.
- Why does your taste in playstyle dictate my choices in game?
- Really none of your business.
- I understand that you don't get it. You are not required to get it.
- Constant updates, ineresting settings and plots, the superhero genre, and yes, I loved Freedom Force and have played it through several times. If you don't get the difference between that game and this, you weren't paying attention.
And of course: really, truly none of your flicking business.
"The correct way to punctuate a sentence that starts: "Of course it is none of my business but --" is to place a period after the word "but." Don't use excessive force in supplying such moron with a period. Cutting his throat is only a momentary pleasure and is bound to get you talked about." -
-Robert Anson Heinlein
My scrapper doesn't need an AoE. She IS an AoE.
Positron has no AV at all.
The clockwork king which is Synapse in Skyway and a Portal mission (as the portal corp missions should be refered to) is often a team wiper if the team does not load up on rages and attacks at once.
If you waste time being an idiot the team will die and you will not recover. Psychic damage from AV is a one shot killer.
All tfs give SOs if you have an open tray slot were present most of the tf and most of the time in the final map.
At level 17 he will not con orange but deep purple. At 22 he cons red to damage dealers. He is set at level 20.
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- Why does your taste in playstyle dictate my choices in game?
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Its not my play style per se', its the style of MMO's. I understand your complaints and your answer as to its none of my business. But buying a game that is based around other people being in the game and getting angry that you have to play with other people just is a weird concept to me is all.
I don't buy RTS games and complain that is has too many strategy elements. But, like you said, to each his own and it is none of my business.
Carry on.
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"The correct way to punctuate a sentence that starts: "Of course it is none of my business but --" is to place a period after the word "but." Don't use excessive force in supplying such moron with a period. Cutting his throat is only a momentary pleasure and is bound to get you talked about." -
-Robert Anson Heinlein
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Now that /I/ grok 
I've done every AV and monster in the game and all of them were doable with a team of equal level intelligent players. Lazy people will seek level 50 help, smart people will just pound them.
My, my. People STILL are questioning others and the way they play???
Unbelievable. If I want to solo in a online game how hard is that for you to understand?
Listen, take a poll. Ask the percentage people solo as opposed to teaming. Go ahead, I'll wait.
You're gonna be suprised by the answer. In this MMORPG and ALL others there are tons of paying customers who love to solo.
They also love to be able to chat whilst doing so. And to see other "real" humans interacting within the game.
But what ever reason a person has for soloing it isn't wrong just because you don't understand it.
Who said MMORPG meant you had to group?
Its arrogant and simple minded of you to even question others and their play style.
That aside. Thank You Statesman for responding in this thread.
I hear what everyone is saying, and I understand most.
But I still think that if I want to follow a story arc, solo I should be able to. Come on its not that hard to code in.
Just give me two choices on the mission screen.
Go take down villains in the lab(with AV)
Go take down villains in the lab(without AV)
Sound easy? I bet it would be.
Done. Simple, painless.
my broadsword/regen scrapper soloed an equal level vahzilok. he was 17 (21), I was 17. took me a while, but I found a nifty trick. I had superspeed, and a contact right outside. I'd grab 4 enrages, 4 lucks, 2 CaBs, and pound, retreat. my haste and dull pain recharged fast, and so I taunted over his fallen body.
He might have nice guns, but nothing is a match for my lazer beam swords, which are sword powered. 
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As far as AVs themselves, I don't think they should be soloable. Sure Spidey fights Doc Ock alone, heck Batman fights several AVs at the same time when he is solo, but the AVs in this game are the pinnacle and should not be soloable...
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I'd have to disagree with that. Doc Ock is a Boss. Almost all of Batman's nemeses are Bosses. Just about any nemesis of solo heroes are Bosses. Galactus is an Arch Villain, Doctor Doom -- on his good days -- is an Arch Villain and it takes the entire Fantastic Four to defeat them. Thanos and Kang/Immortus/Rama Tut are Arch Villains and takes the whole Avengers to defeat them. Magneto is an Arch Villain when he's not a good guy and takes on the entire X-Men.
A nemesis (Doc Ock, Bane, etc.) is not always an Arch Villain but an Arch Villain can also be a nemesis, but usually to an entire group, not just a single character unless that character is of an appropriate power level (like Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock, etc.).
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But I still think that if I want to follow a story arc, solo I should be able to.
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I still think that if I want to solo a TF and Hamidon, I should be able to...
[quoteAny decent scrapper should be able to outright beat him down at even level.
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By that measure, there are no decent MA scrappers.
Infinity:
Ellen, 50 MA/Inv Scr
February Night, 14 Ice/Ice Blstr
Guardian:
SilverSwordmaid, 29 Kat/Rgn Scr
Vicious Killer, 33 Emp/Enrgy Def
Electromagness, 40 Rad/Rad Def
Sense of Humor, 50 Fire/En Tank
Virtue:
Kickfest, 50 MA/SR Scr
Freedom:
Glorious Ending, 29 EM/DA Bru
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Where was this touted then? (not being critical, just curious)
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A lot of game mags and articles mentioned the fact that when this game was released,
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So in other words no place in particular. I just re read the three top
online PC game magazines (by readership, not by popularity or accuracy)
articles written about it and the updates they wrote in may and June.
All mention team play. In fact two say it is difficult to get around without a good team.
Not for nothing, so far I'm not seeing much at all to back up this claim.
I understand your personal position, but so far nothing in writing and
most certinaly nothing from any cedited (Cryptic/NCsoft)source.
I don't see any problem with this, as long as you forfeit the souvenir if you skip any AV fights. After all, you certainly have no need for the Envoy of Shadow's true name if you never try to banish him. And I don't see Statesman thinking enough of you to give you one of his face plates if you grow a yellow streak every time a Praetorian pops up.
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AV's are intended to be a challenge for several heroes.
If you come across one, I would suggest going out and recruiting help!
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In other words...
JUST FIND A GROUP!
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
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And I don't see Statesman thinking enough of you to give you one of his face plates if you grow a yellow streak every time a Praetorian pops up.
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Heh, yes I know what you mean. It takes real bravery to call up 7 of your friends to beat up one villain.
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I'd have to disagree with that. Doc Ock is a Boss. Almost all of Batman's nemeses are Bosses. Just about any nemesis of solo heroes are Bosses. Galactus is an Arch Villain, Doctor Doom -- on his good days -- is an Arch Villain and it takes the entire Fantastic Four to defeat them. Thanos and Kang/Immortus/Rama Tut are Arch Villains and takes the whole Avengers to defeat them. Magneto is an Arch Villain when he's not a good guy and takes on the entire X-Men.
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I'll buy that, in principle. Basically it means (to me, at least) that Arch Villains are way too plentiful in the game and should be replaced (as suggested above) with Supervillains. Something tougher than a boss, but not quite of a Doctor Doom stature. Something that a hero with a full tray of inspirations and a good deal of strategy may have a chance of defeating alone, very challenging but not impossible.
Arch Villains would only be taken on in Epic Arcs, which would require a group from the beginning. Somewhere between the story arcs of now and the massive time commitments (MTC)required by a TF. MTC being a relative term I am sure, your mileage may vary.
i am a lvl 25 dm/reg and took down claymore with only a 24 emp/dark def so just pick up a healer and if your good enough youll be able to pull it off (i was lvl 25 and used my inps correctly)
Ps my build sucks can wait for respec ....i have no idea y i thought maneuvers was a good scraper power
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Go solo Bobcat. Yeah right, people solo AV's all the time. Sheesh, you think I don't know how to play my AT?
Yes, AV's are suppose to be hard.........Thats why they should be kept in trials and Tf's.
Not solo players normal missions.
This game is steering away from being the casual, solo player type game it was touted as.
Why oh why do we still have to equate Hard with Fun?
Yes a challenge is always good. But not to the point where you feel the need to by-pass it.
Getting a lv 50 to finish off your mission will be the normal way in the future, mark my words.
What kind of fun is that?
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Why do people want a multi-player game to turn into single player game. If you don't have the time to play Online games there are alot of single player games out there. The best part of online games is the community and it's need of each other.
Nothing destorys the joy of an online game then being so easy it could be soloed with ease, at least for me.
Not a slam on you just don't understand people that want to solo instead of grouping in this game or any multi-player game. Soloing should be allowed, of course, but it shouldn't be the norm in a game.