heh, believe me, I tried. Even with all Endurance assossiated EHN removed, I still couldn't get myself to 0 end. I do belive it started ticking down, but at that rate, I would grow grey before I hit 0.
My method of testing End cost is ease, though about as scientific as drunk midget tossing uphill in the wind.
At full Endurance, I start turning on powers, from what I know to be least draining, to most draining, 1 by 1, and record how far from 100 my End will drop. Lowest I can get it, is it'll tick 96 for a milisecond, every 7 or 9 cycels of recovery. Using this simple method, i've figured out how to slot everything to max defence while minimize drain. Result:
SS and Sprint, both with just one End red SO in them, drain the most of all my powers. I do not use sprint, as I always have SS on. I'm thinking of adding another slot to it, just for end reduce. Combat jumping takes 0 END. I know this not to be true, but the number is so low, 0 is a safe number to base my slots upon. CJ is all Defence Buffs. Tough is another power like CJ. Though it does drain a tiny bit more, its not enough to worry about. With both CJ and tough toggeled on, my end never dips under 100. Cloaking device drains quiet a bit however. I have it 4 defence buffs and 1 End reduce. The 1 end reduce makes a sizeable difference. Targetting drone is a pig, compared to my other toggels. I have it 6 slotted, 4 ToHit, 2 End red.
As I get more powers, I can post my Simple Man solution. Possily, when I hit 44, i'll pick up flight on Training Room... er nm, can't, 4 pools...
Maybe whirlwind?
Here's an update that adds EPS for Hurricane, Snow Storm, and Steamy Mist. Thanks go to Overboard for the data.
EPS Power
----- ---------------------------
+1.67 Normal Endurance Recovery
+1.67 Quick Recovery (6 even SOs)
+1.25 Stamina (6 even SOs)
+0.56 Quick Recovery
+0.42 Stamina
-2.03 Fly
-1.53 Instant Healing
-1.15 Whirlwind (base, without knockups)
-0.94 Hurricane
-0.77 Integration
-0.76 Snow Storm
-0.76 Steamy Mist
-0.73 Quills
-0.54 Super Speed
-0.46 Maneuvers
-0.44 Assault
-0.38 Stealth
-0.34 Sprint
-0.29 Invincibility
-0.29 Unyielding Stance
-0.24 Hover
-0.20 Tough
-0.08 Combat Jumping
[ QUOTE ]
SS and Sprint, both with just one End red SO in them, drain the most of all my powers. I do not use sprint, as I always have SS on. I'm thinking of adding another slot to it, just for end reduce. Combat jumping takes 0 END. I know this not to be true, but the number is so low, 0 is a safe number to base my slots upon. CJ is all Defence Buffs. Tough is another power like CJ. Though it does drain a tiny bit more, its not enough to worry about. With both CJ and tough toggeled on, my end never dips under 100. Cloaking device drains quiet a bit however. I have it 4 defence buffs and 1 End reduce. The 1 end reduce makes a sizeable difference. Targetting drone is a pig, compared to my other toggels. I have it 6 slotted, 4 ToHit, 2 End red.
As I get more powers, I can post my Simple Man solution. Possily, when I hit 44, i'll pick up flight on Training Room... er nm, can't, 4 pools...
Maybe whirlwind?
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Well.....you're supposed to take the end reducers out of your powers too. With a training room copy losing enhancements doesn't matter (and base end use is what is being looked for).
And yeah, whirlwind would be a good choice for a training room power pick. If you look on the list he has already, it has a fairly high base drain to it.
Culex's resistance guide
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SS and Sprint, both with just one End red SO in them, drain the most of all my powers. I do not use sprint, as I always have SS on. I'm thinking of adding another slot to it, just for end reduce. Combat jumping takes 0 END. I know this not to be true, but the number is so low, 0 is a safe number to base my slots upon. CJ is all Defence Buffs. Tough is another power like CJ. Though it does drain a tiny bit more, its not enough to worry about. With both CJ and tough toggeled on, my end never dips under 100. Cloaking device drains quiet a bit however. I have it 4 defence buffs and 1 End reduce. The 1 end reduce makes a sizeable difference. Targetting drone is a pig, compared to my other toggels. I have it 6 slotted, 4 ToHit, 2 End red.
As I get more powers, I can post my Simple Man solution. Possily, when I hit 44, i'll pick up flight on Training Room... er nm, can't, 4 pools...
Maybe whirlwind?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well.....you're supposed to take the end reducers out of your powers too. With a training room copy losing enhancements doesn't matter (and base end use is what is being looked for).
And yeah, whirlwind would be a good choice for a training room power pick. If you look on the list he has already, it has a fairly high base drain to it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I relize that training room is unimportant. What you quoted above is my Live server build, tested on training room.
With no Endurance recovery, or reduction cost, it would seemingly takes me years to hit 0 stam at my current build. With all toggels on, and no ehn what so ever, my End bar ticks down 100-99-98-97-96 and is then full again.
ah....probably just copy over whenever you get to a level where you can change a skill and pick whirlwind on test. I had to copy over and choose super speed there so I would have an end drain.
If you look at the table so far, Whirlwind is about half of the end regen you would get from normal regen and an unslotted stamina. Toss sprint and super speed on top of that and you have a bit of a drain.
Culex's resistance guide
Has anyone been able to figure out the cost for Temporary Invulnerability?
On my scrapper, all I can tell for sure is that Super Jump, Sprint, and TI combined are not enough to offset basic endurance recovery. This is without Hasten, and without any Endurance cost reducers.
Back again. =]
Any new numbers on Tough, Weave and Acrobatics?
Anyone have new data?
Testing, and getting a value for tough at -.2028 EPM, which concurs with the posted -.20, I arrived at a value of -.2027 for Weave.
Will try acrobatics soon.
Then again, my controller with acrobatics cannot get down to low enough endurance consistantly (without enemies) to test for acrobatics, and unfortunately... as a mind controller... will not be level 28 for quite some time, for me to pick a new power in training room.
Note: For those who may be wondering, the best way i found to test is to activate whatever toggle power is in question, and continue teleporting in place (well, almost in place... put the cursor just left of the endurance bar with an overhead view) until you do not have enough endurance to teleport again. Then slide the cursor to the bar and when the number drops one last time for the last teleport, start the stopwatch and note that number. When your endurance hits the first number in the 90's, stop the timer and note the end number. Divide the amount of endurance recovered by the time passed to find EPM.
Anyone have data for tactics?
Noble one, great job testing! Thank you.
What server are you on?
Thanks.
Glad to help. I'm on Liberty server. Anyone who wants to help the cause is welcome to help my Controller level. :-)
Here's another update. Thanks go to KittyFlame, ZeroG, and Blastinator for the data.
EPS Power
----- ---------------------------
+1.67 Normal Endurance Recovery
+1.67 Quick Recovery (6 even SOs)
+1.25 Stamina (6 even SOs)
+0.56 Quick Recovery
+0.42 Stamina
-2.02 Fly
-1.53 Instant Healing
-1.15 Whirlwind
-1.13 Mud Pots *
-0.94 Hurricane
-0.77 Snow Storm
-0.77 Steamy Mist
-0.77 Integration
-0.75 Blazing Aura *
-0.73 Quills
-0.71 Death Shroud
-0.55 Super Jump
-0.54 Super Speed
-0.46 Maneuvers
-0.45 Assault
-0.39 Cloak of Darkness
-0.39 Dark Embrace
-0.38 Fire Shield *
-0.38 Focused Fighting *
-0.38 Personal Force Field *
-0.38 Stealth
-0.36 Targetting Drone
-0.35 Rock Armor *
-0.34 Sprint
-0.32 Acrobatics
-0.30 Cloaking Device
-0.28 Invincibility
-0.28 Unyielding Stance
-0.24 Hover
-0.20 Tough
-0.20 Weave *
-0.11 Oppressive Gloom
-0.08 Combat Jumping
* Powers marked with an asterisk are submissions that were measured
using some method other than the drain-to-zero method, so I am not
able to check their validity. I am listing them here until
drain-to-zero measurements for these powers become available.
Vennom, great job with the list! A small concern however; according to you, Stealth actually drains MORE then Cloaking device. Acording to in-game discription along with personal experience, this is false. I think the numbers are just reversed. Would you be so kind as to retest these two powers?
After a couple hours of testing...
Invisibility has a big drain of 1.49916, or a EPS value of -1.50
What about tactics, anybody?
Dunno if I did this right or if this is even helpful, but here's what I tested.
Removed all 6 enh from Stamina. No Endurance reducerers in any powers.
Turned on SS (1 run), Sprint (1 run), Cloaking Devices (1 def), and Targeting Drone(3 to hit). Only toggles I have.
After about an hour running this, no endurance lost was noted. Lowest number I ever saw was 95.
I don't have enough toggles to make a dent, so I don't know if I can be of more help.
[ QUOTE ]
Vennom, great job with the list! A small concern however; according to you, Stealth actually drains MORE then Cloaking device. Acording to in-game discription along with personal experience, this is false. I think the numbers are just reversed. Would you be so kind as to retest these two powers?
[/ QUOTE ]
It kinda makes sense that cloaking device would be less end cost than stealth. Since they both have the same def bonus and the same concealment factor and stealth is a pool power it should somehow be worse than cloaking device. not better. But I have absolutely no experience with either power so I could easily be totally wrong.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Vennom, great job with the list! A small concern however; according to you, Stealth actually drains MORE then Cloaking device. Acording to in-game discription along with personal experience, this is false. I think the numbers are just reversed. Would you be so kind as to retest these two powers?
[/ QUOTE ]
It kinda makes sense that cloaking device would be less end cost than stealth. Since they both have the same def bonus and the same concealment factor and stealth is a pool power it should somehow be worse than cloaking device. not better. But I have absolutely no experience with either power so I could easily be totally wrong.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, however stealth says that because of its speed penilty, it costs less END,
I don't have anyone wwith cloaking device, but will try stealth when I get a chance, maybe tonight. Then we can see which number it agrees with.
A really quick check (since my last post) gave me a value for stelath of -0.375, which concurs with the posted -0.38, so I guess that one is right.
I sent in some more measurements. Until we get Vennom to update his list or dispute my results, a temporary update for the following powers:
-1,46 Arctic air
-0,59 Quills
-0,47 Tactics
Call it a bumpfuzzle, but I really don't want to see this uber thread die.
Yes, the number for Cloaking Device is too low, if the other numbers are correct. My Ice/Dev blaster has static End, meaning no loss and no recovery, bar stays as is, with the following toggles on:
Targetting Drone: .36
Sprint: .34
Acrobatics: .32
Cloaking Device: .30 (?)
CJ: .08
The total of of those numbers is 1.40. If normal End recovery is 1.67, then I should be recovering End slowly, but I'm not. That means one of those numbers is too low. I suspect it is CD, because getting CD is what started to cause major End problems for this character in spite of some End recovery buffs I get from teammates. CD feels like a big End sucker.
- felicity
[ QUOTE ]
Copy to test server, take enhancements out of stamina.
You can take enhancements out by clicking on it and dragging to the trash bin...it might take a few tries. Yes it does work...took me a bit to get it to work myself, but it was easier after the first time. It's really picky on what you have to click on.
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It's not so much picky on what you click on. You can click anywhere on the enhancement. You just need to hold down the mouse button without moving it until your cursor picks it up. Takes about 1 second.