Vennom

The_SaberCat,

I agree--the EPS for Tactics, Maneuvers, and Assault is probably exactly the same. I'm just posting the raw numbers I get and you can round them how you see fit. I want to avoid putting any human bias into my results so that you can get the best data possible!

In some domain, all of these numbers probably are nice and round, although I haven't figured out what that domain is. It's not endurance-per-second, nor is it endurance-per-minute. In developer-land somewhere, though, you can bet that there are some nice even numbers that people are using for endurance consumption. One possibility is that there is nice round endurance per tick number for each power, but that the tick interval also varies among powers.

I forgot to mention that I'll be redoing the measurements that I originally made on my Scrapper to see if any endurance costs have changed with Issue 2. I have seen posts where people observed apparent changes, so it's worth checking.

Here's an update. Thanks go to Stephen_Starfox, Sillvanor, and The_SaberCat for the measurements.

Note that I cannot edit the original post due to forum permissions (sigh), so replying will have to do. Eventually, I'll start a new thread to avoid too much clutter.

EPS Power
----- ---------------------------
+1.67 Normal Endurance Recovery
+1.67 Quick Recovery (6 even SOs)
+1.25 Stamina (6 even SOs)
+0.56 Quick Recovery
+0.42 Stamina

-2.03 Fly
-1.54 Instant Healing
-1.46 Arctic Air
-1.42 Superior Invisibility
-1.15 Whirlwind
-1.13 Mud Pots *
-0.94 Hurricane
-0.77 Integration
-0.76 Snow Storm
-0.76 Steamy Mist
-0.75 Dispersion Field
-0.75 Blazing Aura *
-0.73 Quills
-0.71 Death Shroud
-0.54 Super Jump
-0.53 Super Speed
-0.46 Tactics
-0.45 Maneuvers
-0.44 Assault
-0.39 Cloak of Darkness
-0.39 Dark Embrace
-0.38 Stealth
-0.38 Fire Shield *
-0.38 Focused Fighting *
-0.38 Personal Force Field *
-0.35 Sprint
-0.35 Targetting Drone
-0.35 Rock Armor *
-0.32 Acrobatics
-0.29 Cloaking Device
-0.28 Invincibility
-0.28 Unyielding Stance
-0.22 Tough
-0.22 Hover
-0.20 Weave *
-0.12 Oppressive Gloom
-0.08 Combat Jumping

* Powers marked with an asterisk are submissions that were measured using some method other than the drain-to-zero method, so I am not able to check their validity. I am listing them here until someone submits drain-to-zero measurements for these powers.

Sorry for the delay in sending an update. My computer died and it's taken me a while to get everything back in order. I'll send an update as soon as possible.

Here's another update. Thanks go to KittyFlame, ZeroG, and Blastinator for the data.

EPS Power
----- ---------------------------
+1.67 Normal Endurance Recovery
+1.67 Quick Recovery (6 even SOs)
+1.25 Stamina (6 even SOs)
+0.56 Quick Recovery
+0.42 Stamina

-2.02 Fly
-1.53 Instant Healing
-1.15 Whirlwind
-1.13 Mud Pots *
-0.94 Hurricane
-0.77 Snow Storm
-0.77 Steamy Mist
-0.77 Integration
-0.75 Blazing Aura *
-0.73 Quills
-0.71 Death Shroud
-0.55 Super Jump
-0.54 Super Speed
-0.46 Maneuvers
-0.45 Assault
-0.39 Cloak of Darkness
-0.39 Dark Embrace
-0.38 Fire Shield *
-0.38 Focused Fighting *
-0.38 Personal Force Field *
-0.38 Stealth
-0.36 Targetting Drone
-0.35 Rock Armor *
-0.34 Sprint
-0.32 Acrobatics
-0.30 Cloaking Device
-0.28 Invincibility
-0.28 Unyielding Stance
-0.24 Hover
-0.20 Tough
-0.20 Weave *
-0.11 Oppressive Gloom
-0.08 Combat Jumping

* Powers marked with an asterisk are submissions that were measured
using some method other than the drain-to-zero method, so I am not
able to check their validity. I am listing them here until
drain-to-zero measurements for these powers become available.

Here's an update that adds EPS for Hurricane, Snow Storm, and Steamy Mist. Thanks go to Overboard for the data.

EPS Power
----- ---------------------------
+1.67 Normal Endurance Recovery
+1.67 Quick Recovery (6 even SOs)
+1.25 Stamina (6 even SOs)
+0.56 Quick Recovery
+0.42 Stamina

-2.03 Fly
-1.53 Instant Healing
-1.15 Whirlwind (base, without knockups)
-0.94 Hurricane
-0.77 Integration
-0.76 Snow Storm
-0.76 Steamy Mist
-0.73 Quills
-0.54 Super Speed
-0.46 Maneuvers
-0.44 Assault
-0.38 Stealth
-0.34 Sprint
-0.29 Invincibility
-0.29 Unyielding Stance
-0.24 Hover
-0.20 Tough
-0.08 Combat Jumping

MrBurke,

I'm not sure why you say that my numbers don't match the devs' numbers, since that's where I got them from. I believe it was a post by Geko, who stated that normal endurance recovery is 0 to full in 60 seconds, quick recovery adds 1/3 of the normal rate, and stamina adds 1/4 of the normal rate. Of course, it appears that this post has since been deleted, although I'm sure that some here remember it.

Normal endurance recovery would then be 100 end / 60 sec = 1.67 EPS.

Quick Recovery would then be (1/3) * (100 end / 60 sec) = 0.56 EPS.

Stamina would then be (1/4) * (100 end / 60 sec) = 0.42 EPS.

If there is some error in the above, please let me know.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the measurements taken in that thread that you mention (I believe it is http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...;Number=967593 ), as ChaoticStreams already indicated that dying and using Awaken skewed his results.

Here's an update that adds EPS for Fly, Invincibility, Unyielding Stance, and Tough. Thanks go to Pitho for the data.

EPS Power
----- ---------------------------
+1.67 Normal Endurance Recovery
+1.67 Quick Recovery (6 even SOs)
+1.25 Stamina (6 even SOs)
+0.56 Quick Recovery
+0.42 Stamina

-2.02 Fly
-1.53 Instant Healing
-1.15 Whirlwind (base, without knockups)
-0.77 Integration
-0.73 Quills
-0.54 Super Speed
-0.46 Assault
-0.46 Maneuvers
-0.38 Stealth
-0.34 Sprint
-0.28 Invincibility
-0.28 Unyielding Stance
-0.24 Hover
-0.20 Tough
-0.08 Combat Jumping

Ian_Of_Moore, does the hero you used have Stamina and/or Quick Recovery? Would you be willing to provide the raw drain-to-0 times so that I can plug them into my spreadsheet? As an example: Fly took xxx seconds to drain endurance from full to 0 on a hero with no stamina or quick recovery. Fly + Dark Embrace took yyy seconds. Fly + Murky Cloud took zzz seconds. And so on. This is the best way that I know to get accurate endurance measurements.

MrBurke, I don't see your measurements as being in conflict with the numbers the devs have published on normal endurance recovery, quick recovery, and stamina.

Here are the EPS numbers given by the devs:
Normal Endurance Recovery: 5/3 EPS
Quick Recovery: 5/9 EPS (1/3 of normal)
Stamina: 5/12 EPS (1/4 of normal)

This equates to 100-endurance gain times of:
Normal endurance recovery: 60 sec
Normal + Quick Recovery (0 SO) + Stamina (0 SO): 37.89 sec
Normal + Quick Recovery (6 even SO) + Stamina (6 even SO): 21.82 sec

As a sanity check on the devs, I verified these times myself, and I was within one second of them. These are also very close to the numbers you gave. I believe that they are within the margin of error for what is measurable for endurance gains.

It is difficult to get a very accurate measurement when endurance is increasing because you are relying on visual cues that are only updated once every few seconds (the endurance bar). I believe that, internally, your endurance is updated at a higher rate. That is why I'm using the drain-to-0 method of measurement, which provides an ironclad cue (powers being deactivated). There's no guesswork.

One thing I forgot to mention is that you can do the character copy after you level but before you've trained. In that way, you can train various toggle powers on the test server. In particular, you may want to take Whirlwind or some other very endurance-intensive toggle in order to get enough of an endurance drain to be able to make measurements.

Have you ever wondered what the endurance effects for your toggle
powers are? Below is a partial table of endurance gains for powers,
measured in endurance per second (EPS). Unless otherwise noted, all
powers have zero slots. I put this together because I noted how
incorrect and inconsistent the available toggle power endurance
information has been.

EPS Power
----- ---------------------------
+1.67 Normal Endurance Recovery
+1.67 Quick Recovery (6 even SOs)
+1.25 Stamina (6 even SOs)
+0.56 Quick Recovery
+0.42 Stamina

-1.53 Instant Healing
-1.15 Whirlwind (base, without knockups)
-0.77 Integration
-0.73 Quills
-0.54 Super Speed
-0.46 Assault
-0.46 Maneuvers
-0.38 Stealth
-0.34 Sprint
-0.24 Hover
-0.08 Combat Jumping

"How did you get these numbers, and how can I help complete the
list?", you ask. That's a good question.

1. Copy a hero to the test server. Read "The Training Room (Test
Server)" message board to find out how to set up your test client at
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/postl...ard=shibboleth
. Look for the post entitled "City of Heroes Character Copy Tool!!!".

2. Strip the endurance recovery and endurance reduction enhancements
from all powers that affect endurance (including Quick Recovery and
Stamina, if your hero has them).

3. Find a combination of toggle powers you can activate that will make
your endurance recovery be negative (you see your endurance bar being
drained toward zero). Not every hero can do this--you must have some
endurance-intensive toggles. Try to find a combination of toggle
powers that results in as slow a drain as possible: at least 5 minutes
to drain from full 100 endurance to zero. Use a stopwatch to time from
the moment you activate the last power (the one that makes the drain
negative) to the point where you hear one or more of your powers being
powered down for lack of endurance. Timing to the nearest second is
accurate enough.

4. Repeat step 3 to measure as many other combinations as you can.

5. Send me the results. Include which endurance-affecting powers you
have active as well as how long it took to drain from 100 to zero
endurance. Don't forget to list Quick Recovery and Stamina if you have
either of these.

I'll plug your results into my endurance spreadsheet and fit the power
endurance costs to minimize the total error of all results. For the
mathematically-minded, I currently have more equations (measurements)
than unknowns (toggle power EPS figures), and am able to fit them with
0.003 total EPS error, so I believe that the results are very
consistent, and I feel comfortable posting them to 2 decimal places.