Accuracy and Defense the Simple Explination
By
Amauros,
Posted on: 2004-07-27 04:59 in Player Guides
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Geko is the source; he said so in a post of his. But I don't feel like crawling through search results to find it. But I read his post myself when he posted it.
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So, no then? All right, can you at least give a reason why this would be the case?
These Numbers are the last listed by Geko about 3 months ago sorry can't link to the post it don't exist anymore Geko can comment. BTW I am suprised no one copied the original post So many people ask for the hard numbers on Defensive powers and Damage resistance. I still don't know how much acc% aim and Build up do but I do know how much Damage% they both raise =)
Hover 5%
Hasten 5%
Combat Jump 5%
Cloaking Device 6.25%
Stealth 7%
Tough 10% Not Defese(Damage Res to Smash & Lethal)
Weave 10% (its a pool power)
Smoke Grenade 11%(secondarys were said to be better then power pool powers thus 1% better then weave)
Manuvers was 6.25% for everyone but defenders and Controllers they get a AT bonus inherint lil pips hero planner lists it as 7.5% for D and 12% for C.
Grant Invisible 5%
Invisible 7% until you attack something you would then lose this Def bonus.(so only snipers really would attack you while Invisible is on so the Def bonus don't really help in combat its akin to if phase shift gave you a 10% bonus to def. well since stuff can't hurt you a bonus to def wouldn't really help)
Never seen any stats on Superior Invisibilty
alot of the tanker/scrapper powers were listed but Being a Blaster I only memorized the Def Bonus's I could select Power Pool and Secondarys.
Almost all the Def powers of Scrappers/Tankers were listed at 10% but since it was a self buff the SO's give 33% you could get several powers to 33% where as powers that are debuffs on enemies SO's give 20% bonus.
as a FYI Weave is only to Ranged and Melee gives no Def to AOEs such as a 5th colum Shotgun attack.
My goal with defense on a blaster is to get the hardest thing i'm goona fight solo to 50% chance to hit me.
I tend to fight equal con bosses, LTs +2 lvls or lower, Minions +2 levels or anything lower up to anything -1 level to me.
35% total defense and debuffs to enemies accuracy would put an equal con boss to 50% everything else equal con lower, and low enough LTs +2 have around a 60ish% chance to hit.
Now that everything hits you 1 out of 2 times or less you can fight those if they die before they attack you twice. The nice part is if they do hit you the 1 time they attack usually 1 hit will leave you alive though often in the red. Try to avoid anything that can cast a hold or slow power. Immobilize only affect my blaster if it drops a hold on top (they somehow stack with each other) if they only immobilize i just stand where they stick me Firing away.
Now those are the base those aren't exact for all AT's!!!
For example Tough is 20% for Tanks (been tested multitude of times ... go do it yourself if you desire 
).
Tough is 15% for Scrappers ... again tested multiple times 
Weave seems to follow the same standard fo 20/15/10.
Further every single defense you see listed is higher for Tanks (around 7.5% for any 5% you see and Scrappers will usually be around 6.25% for any 5% you see on this list).
sorry if this question doesn't belong here, but i dont know where else to ask it.
From the math provided, and seen elsewhere, it seems that 6-slotting something with the same SOs (like all damages) is almost a waste. The 6th slot seems to only do 5% or so damage. It that true?
If it is, i'd rather use an inspiration for 12% that costs a whole heck of a lot cheaper.
Oh, and about inspirations. THe 33% increase, is that off the base damage? Ie, if i can to 100 HP of damage before enhancements, then, say 300 HP after i add enhancements, will the 33% increase of an inspiration be calculates off the 100 HP or the 300HP? thats the difference between 30 and 100 hp.
Not completely true. It all depends on what you are using.
Lets say you have a max boost of 400% to your attack.
Your base increase from 6 +3 level SO's would be 329.77% ((1.15*6*0.33)+1). Obviously that's below your 400% cap!
But if you start throwing on a 70% bonus from a damage boost from a build-up like power (I don't know the exact percentage from build up) and a % bonus from Assault then you've already exceeded your 400% max and thus no longer get any benifit.
"Your base increase from 6 +3 level SO's would be 329.77% ((1.15*6*0.33)+1). Obviously that's below your 400% cap!"
I was under the impression that every level greater than your level enhancement adds 1%, so wouldn't it be (6 * .36)?
Buildup is 100%.
Whoomp
Nope it's -10% per level below yours and +5% for each level above.
I don't know if this is the place to ask this or not, but...
So, I've been thinking a lot about acc debuffs vs. defense buffs lately before I make my next defender.
The question I have goes something like this...
is an -acc the same as +def ?
I'm thinking not in as much as when fighting a different lvl opponent your +def is effected by the lvl difference between you and the enemy while -acc isnt ?
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thx
Machina Archana lvl31 FF/DB virtue
Machina Diabola lvl28 Ill/SS virtue
thank you great post, some interesting concepts =D
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I don't know if this is the place to ask this or not, but...
So, I've been thinking a lot about acc debuffs vs. defense buffs lately before I make my next defender.
The question I have goes something like this...
is an -acc the same as +def ?
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There are some differences. Some everyone would agree on and some people have different views on.
-Acc is more team beneficial. Something Acc debuffed misses everyone more with all its attacks. +Def only protects you.
From comments made by Geko around the time of the Smoke Grenade change I believe that Acc is Multiplicative where as +Def is additive. Which means that Acc works better the higher the base hit of the mob is, ie better on Bosses and LTs than minions.
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I'm thinking not in as much as when fighting a different lvl opponent your +def is effected by the lvl difference between you and the enemy while -acc isnt ?
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I would think it was the other way around.
+Res isnt lowered by being hit by a higher level opponent so I dont think that +Def would either, although in both cases since the mob would have a higher base to hit and do you more damage you would see an increased threat from the mob.
On the other hand debuffs are well documented to effect higher mobs less.
This is partly balanced by the fact that Debuff Enh give a 33% bonus for an SO while Res and Def Enh only give a 20% bonus for an SO.
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TY very much that was quite helpful.
The issue comes in because I'm looking at possible ways of slotting hurricane and steamy mist and wondered what sort of balance to strike on the -acc vs the +defs.
I know the -acc will only effect those close with this power and the inherent knockback sort of makes that less helpful.
Still wish there was a way to enhance the range reduction on the thing ... seems like I'm constanlty gettign out of ranges vs storm shamans where as they don't seem to get it on me.
oh well.
Cheers
The big difference is that ACC debuffs are proportional to your enemies chance to hit you. Example:
Minion of equal level has a base 50% chance to hit you. A 5% DEF buff, will reduce that chance to 50 - 5 = 45%. A 5% ACC debuff will reduce that chance to 50 - (5% of 50 =) 2.5% = 47.5%. In most cases, DEF buffs are superior, but ACC debuffs are better against extremely dangerous foes (those with over 100% base ACC). Also, as mentioned, ACC debuffs tend to be AE so provide a larger overall benefit against large groups in such cases.
Now, what about accuracy and defense enhancements? I know that Def gives +20% for an SO, and Acc +33%, but I hear that accuracy and defense enhance in different ways:
Supposedly, accuracy enhancements increase your base chance to hit, so one SO would give you 1.33*75% (even con minion) = 100% chance to hit, while defense just subtracts from chance to hit, i.e. Hover gives 5% defense, 6% with one SO, so if the even con minion had hover 1slotted and you had 1 acc SO you'd have 1.33*75%-6%=94% chance to hit.
Does anyone know if this is correct, or whether Acc enhancers just add chance to hit, i.e. 75%+33%=108% chance to hit?
Enhancers always work the same way ... always. If players think they don't then they are doing something wrong or don't know a critical piece of information.
For multiplicitive effects it's always:
BASE*(1+SUM OF ENHANCERS)
For divisive effects (Endurance Reducers for example) it's always:
Base/(1+SUM OF ENHANCERS).
See the link in my sig if you want to get specific examples of DEF and ACC enhancers in action. It'll calculate them for you. A simple example though:
ACC (3 SO even level enhancers)
75%*(1+.33+.33+.33)=149.9%
DEF(3 SO's even level enhancers)
30%*(1+.2+.2+.2)= 48%
Always the same equations Occasionally it may get buried in a large equation (see geko's explination on how Regen works for a complex equation that these enhancements are buried in).
Well, even if they always work the same way, there's the vital point of whether we have a base chance to hit of 100% (so enhancements give 33% more) and minions have a base defense of 25%, or enhancements affect the chance to hit that is determined by target (and thus give 25%).
But I trust that you've tested how it works, so thanks for clarifying.
ok, you are all making a VERY simple concept seem ugly and unweildy.
I'll use my bubbler as an example, all powers are 6 slotted with even level SO's for this example.
Running around with NOTHING on: (it's cold out here)
Even level mobs
Minion = 50%
LT = 65%
Boss = 85%
Combat Jumping = unenhanced
Maneuvers = 6 slotted
Hasten = unenhanced
Defense = 20%
Even level mobs:
Minion = 30%
LT = 45%
Bosses = 65%
that's a BIG difference
Running Hasten, CJ and Man, and OH CRAP!!!! Personal Force field with ONE enhancement (114% bonus to defense) for a total of 134% defense.
Even level mobs:
Minion = 5% (acc floor)
LT = 5% (acc floor)
Boss = 5% (acc floor)
NOW, I think it's like +5% per level up from you for their acc bonus......I THINK
+5 level minion with previous defense = 5% tohit (acc floor) from 75%
+5 level LT with previous defense = 5% tohit (acc floor) from 90%
+5 level boss with previous defense = 5% tohit (acc floor) from 95% (thank heavens for that 5% miss no matter what huh?)
THANK GOD, PFF saves the day again, now to find my buddy in Perigrin Island
+20 minion = 16% Acc (150%-134%)
+20 LT = 31% Acc (165%-134%)
+20 boss = 51% Acc (185%-134%)
Dear GOD, +20s are bad!
SOOOO, there's no reason to make this complex. take your %'s from each defense power you have running, add them up, don't forget hasten, that gives you your defense. Take the Mob's BASE tohit (50/65/85 +5 per level above) and subtract your defense, the new number is how often you'll get hit, to 5% MINIMUN. The mob will ALWAYS hit 5% of the time, and you will get hit 95% of the time MAXIMUM.
Force Shield is the easiest to figure out, but add that stuff up yourselves, taking into account what you normally hunt. There is NO max on defense (ok 400%, but that takes a BUNCH of toggles and a BUNCH of bubbles), BUT you always get hit 5% of the time, no matter what.
I'm pretty sure mobs have a curve not a linear growth in ACC as they get above your level.
Like I said, I THINK it's 5% per level diff, I remember Geko saying something like that about acc and defense, it's damage that's curved he said.....I THINK
Back when the purple patch came out, geko posted some data and gave the ACC of a boss 5 levels higher than the player, I believe the number was 115% ACC but I could be wrong.
Based upon that data from Geko, it worked out to approx 6-7% per level but it is reasonable to expect that number starting small and scaling upwards.
I once saw a chart that calculated out ACC bonus due to levels that came very close to Geko's number, it was basically the same type of math that was used in calculating the bonus for Enhancements based up level difference.
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Level +5 * 1.5 = 75 * 1.5 = 112.5
Level +4 * 1.4 = 75 * 1.4 = 105
Level +3 * 1.3 = 75 * 1.3 = 97.5
Level +2 * 1.2 = 75 * 1.2 = 90
Level +1 * 1.1 = 75 * 1.1 = 82.5
Even * 1.0
Level -1 * 0.95 = 75 * 0.95 = 71.25
Level -2 * 0.90 = 75 * 0.90 = 67.5
Level -3 * 0.85 = 75 * 0.85 = 63.75
Level -4 * 0.80 = 75 * 0.80 = 60
Level -5 * 0.75 = 75 * 0.75 = 56.25
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Has any of these useful numbers been updated since I5?
I am particularly interested in Base accuracies us vs mobs and the affect of lvl differences.
What is the base % of a player to hit you for pvp?
-(Subject 9) lvl 50 Scrapper, Claws/SR, Protector
-(Frenzi) lvl 50 Brute, DM/WP, Virtue
Instead of nerfing the best classes, just bring everybody else up to their level of greatness. Everybody will be happy.
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What is the base % of a player to hit you for pvp?
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Currently 75.
Even more currently, 50%.
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Even more currently, 50%.
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Officially, its still 75% base tohit but with a +25% defense buff against PvP attacks. However, for all intents and purposes, that is mathematically indistinguishable from an adjustment in player tohit down to 50%.
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No, Maneuvers is 6.25% for everyone, even defenders.
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Can you cite a source on that?
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Geko is the source; he said so in a post of his. But I don't feel like crawling through search results to find it. But I read his post myself when he posted it.