baron_inferno

When you rate something, it doesn't have to give specifics. That's never been a mandetory part of a rating system. When one talk about specific details, they're referring to critical reviews. When and if feedback becomes mandatory, people would just stop rating because it would be a hassle.

The millions of surveys handed out to people to rate products of every industry shows that feedback is optional. In essence, ratings in general are only meant to give the creator a basic idea of how the "general populace" react to his material. Of course there will be times when the ratings given won't *necessarily* be justified but that's a inherent risk with every new material being published for public consumption.

[ QUOTE ]
I doubt that there's an InfForCash.com storefront anywhere. Or a cube farm with rows of goldfarmers. More likely, they work from small private areas, like Sum Gai's basement, just like the CD and DVD pirates would. Having a storefront/warehouse/base of operations, business licence, etc just cuts into costs anyways.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not exactly. A lot of the workers doing the grunt work of gathering loot are teenagers or young college adults doing it as a part time gig while in school. They operate mostly out of the many internet cafes that are all over China. They also tend to work in shifts through out the day and multiple employees can share one account to keep the cost down. I learned all of this by seeing it with my own eyes and also by talking to some of them. It's actually kind of interesting how complex it is even though the concept sounds so simple. Strangely enough, none of them has heard of CoX but they've all done some work with WoW and Lineage 1/2.

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I'd rather be a real rogue and play both sides against the middle. That's what I'm hoping going rogue will be instead of the whole switching side stuff.

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Well you can stop hoping because it has been confirmed a long time ago that it is actual side-switching.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sigh, this is why I never bother to roleplay in MMOs. The roles are already set for you, all you have to do is let the storyline prod you alone. Well, I guess when the time comes, I'll just have to decide whether blue side farms and BM will be enough to entice me to switch sides. Well, definately not my SoAs, there's just something unnatural about that.

[ QUOTE ]
In essence, institute a maximum number of levels gained per hour.

[/ QUOTE ]

This idea only resulting in breeding mediocrity and incompetence. It's been shown to be true historically time and time again. If there's an artificial cap on reward and advancement, people will simply stop trying to be efficient. There's no point to doing your "best" to achieve a goal quicker since heck, that only means you'll hit the pre-determined cap sooner. For the remainder of the time, you'll just be twiddling your thumbs.

Lastly, this idea seems to be a rather subtle attempt to balance the playing field between power gamers and casual gamers. I'm definately against this, not because I play 10 hours a day but because I don't believe in enforced fairness.

[ QUOTE ]
If you focus on one thing you'll burn out in a couple of months.

[/ QUOTE ]

People were already burning out on the regular content prior to the introduction of AE. I personally go with the pattern of playing for 3 months, unsubscribe for 1-2 months, rinse and repeat. The subscription numbers for CoX reflects this pattern quite transparently as well. Steady decline during months between issues and a spike in subscriptions during months of new issues.

Let's be honest here, CoX content in general just don't have much variety. There's kidnap, blinkies, destructibles, rescue, kill all, kill a certain mob, survive x wave of ambushes and that's pretty much all the mission objectives. It's not like we have a real crafting system to use as a time sink to keep people occupied like other games. CoX went with a simple game design to begin with. With or without AE, people will get burned out until a new issue is released regardless. Diversification into areas where a good percent of players have absolutely no interest in such as PVP or rolling certain ATs will only serve to annoy them, not make them play longer.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why all the talk about Bane being squishy, and constantly comparing it to Night Widows. Bane is vastly superior in every facet of gameplay, minus the slow casting and no elude.

The damage output is ridiculously high, and as for smacking around heroes, a fully slotted Bane Spider has no problems doing it. As far as soft capping on defenses, wasting power slots on the fighting or leadership trees is pointless. Just spend the money IO'ing your toon out with purples and other expensive sets, and you'll be fine. I have a lvl 50 Bane God. So my advice is simple...stop comparing it to NW's, its a different class, different style, and better in my opinion. Of the VEATS it is clearly the strongest, anyone who claims it isn't, either has never played a Bane Spider, or just has no skill.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think somebody here really overrates their own so called "skillz". It always happens in discussions like this.

"d00d 1f j00 7H1nK 7H15 CH4|24C73|2 5UCK5, 7H47 jU57 M34n j00 g0t n0 5K1LLz"

Next thing you know, he'll be challenging anyone to a dual in the arena to prove his m4d 5k1llz.

I'd rather be a real rogue and play both sides against the middle. That's what I'm hoping going rogue will be instead of the whole switching side stuff. Real world isn't so black or white. Some might percieve one's action as heroic but others can see it as villainous too! As a SoA, it would be something along the lines of a double agent working with both Longbow and Arachnos. That would be interesting to say the least.

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You think "all the travel" in this game is bad, take a look at other MMOs (to be fair the only other I've really looked at was WoW, which left me feeling me very "unWow'ed" - but I hear stories)

[/ QUOTE ]

West Karana without SOW.

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Oooh, I remember that.

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Try getting to Kunark via the boats when The Ruins of Kunark was the ONLY EQ expansion.

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Then there was that problem of falling off the boat while zoning :P

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I'm going to guess that this particular name was blocked, not taken.

I know I would have petitioned it if i had seen it in-game. Pretty juvenile, IMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently sarcasm is not your forte. The punchline of the story is how *short* my latest attempt to play blue side was. Of course I knew the name was not available but it was just an afterthought considering I wasn't serious about playing heroes in the first place. *rolls eyes*

[ QUOTE ]
I'd imagine in time people will come up with farms are are both profitable and enjoyable (beyond just the rewards). Perhaps they already have. I would guess that the Devs main goal regarding farming is to make sure that whatever people farm they also at least somewhat enjoy (at which point, by Castle's definition it would no longer be farming), and yes AE is a great vehicle for that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Shrugs, I'm already enjoying the current farm missions, even the generic 52-54 boss ones. To me, the people on the team, not the mission itself is what makes the game fun. For example, yesterday I started a 54 boss team with my Kin. We had 3 good brutes on the team and we were fighting 4-5 groups of mobs at once. Sure there were a few close calls but it was also exciting (and amusing). It was a laugh-fest from beginning to end and we finished the mission in about 10 minutes. That was quite enjoyable and fun to me.

The other day I tried to start a blue side stone tanker named Alabastard but the name was taken. That was my shortest stint on hero side ever.

[ QUOTE ]
People that think they require a stone tank or brute either lack an imagination or aren't very analytical.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll second that opinion. I have a SA brute and yes, he is extremely tough at 42-44% Def and 88% resist to smashing/lethal while in Granite form. However, my WM/SD and SS/SR brute can be the lead in any level 54 AE boss or Recluse AV farm just as effectively.

[ QUOTE ]
The Ae is working as intended? no problems? What a load of crap. A vast majority, almost all of AE usage is for farming. Farming is an exploit. Not working as intended.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not working as intended? Are you so delusional as to believe that your interpretation is even remotely correct? Per Websters, exploit is defined as:

"to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage"

Last I checked, the developers of CoX made their content to give out rewards whether it is exp, inf or drops. They also allow almost all of their content to be repeatable. So just how is farming exploiting the game mechanic or unfair? Are you saying that by repeating a particular content whether it is a AE boss farm, paper/radio or TF, a person is exploiting the game? According to that absurd logic, just about 99.99% of the CoX players have already engaged in exploitive behavior. Now don't even try to draw a fine line between the farmers who repeat content for rewards and the players who only repeat content for *fun*. Repitition is repitition regardless of the motivation behind it and as a result, the current game mechanic literally forces rewards upon you (you can turn off exp but you certainly can't turn off inf or drops). It's not as if farmers aren't having *fun* by repeating contents either. Frankly, the logical fallacy behind your argument is astounding. I don't even need to read to the rest of your drivel filled post since your very initial point is a colossal fail of historical magnitude. Four years of playing this game and you still don't know s***. The fact that you'd resort to dooooom perdictions shows how out of touch you are. You're the perfect example as to why vet badges isn't a guarentee of anything except for someone having paid his subscription fees for a certain period of time.

Lastly, you need a reality check so I'll force feed you the prescription which you desperately need. You don't make the rules nor do you have the authority to. You certainly aren't qualified to define anything for anybody. Even the developers of CoX (nor any other MMO I've personally played) don't dare to claim what you have claimed and unlike you, they actually have the authority and means to back up a claim of that sort. Yet, they choose not to so what does that tell you? The saddest part of this whole thing is that you sound so arrogant about your radicalism as if you actually believe that you have some moral imperative to dictate to us how the game should be. Well, you're not special. You're just another anonymous subscription paying nobody like everyone else. As a result, your anecdotal observations regarding the direction and current state of CoX is inconsequential, insignificant and irrelevent. Go preach your sermon to a real life crowd and see how quickly you get waved off as just another incoherent, babbling buffoon.

Here's the build info I promised. Sorry for the delay but I keep getting sidetracked. Anyways since I don't know what your budget is like, I didn't want to include too many purple sets in this build. It is still a pretty expensivebut you could achieve similar results (while losing a bit of global recharge) by tweaking the build a bit with cheaper IO sets.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Euthanasist: Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: War Mace
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Pulverize -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(3), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Deflection -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def/Rchg(5), GftotA-Def(5), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40), ResDam-I(40), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(43)
Level 2: Jawbreaker -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(7), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Mako-Dam%(46)
Level 4: Battle Agility -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(9), RedFtn-Def(9), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(25), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 6: True Grit -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(13), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(15), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(43), Aegis-ResDam(45)
Level 8: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(15), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(17), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(17), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(19), GSFC-Build%(46)
Level 10: Clobber -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(21), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Mako-Dam%(37)
Level 12: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 16: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(37)
Level 18: Whirling Mace -- Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(27), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Armgdn-Dam%(29)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(29), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(31), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(39)
Level 22: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 24: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(45)
Level 26: Shatter -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(31), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(33), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33)
Level 28: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(45)
Level 30: Boxing -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Crowd Control -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(33), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(34), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Oblit-%Dam(48)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(36), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Oblit-%Dam(46)
Level 38: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(39), Aegis-ResDam(39)
Level 41: Weave -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-EndRdx(42), RedFtn-Def(42), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(42), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Super Jump -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 47: Grant Cover -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/Rchg(48), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Fury



<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>| Copy &amp; Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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[ QUOTE ]
It's not that I'm saying Champions Online is better. I am saying that there are ways to limit abuse of content that can be "baked" into the content piece itself.

The real problem is, old engines are not designed for that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can agree with this. Of course a custom content system that was designed from the inception is going to fare a whole lot better than a patchwork system implemented post release. That's what I meant by PS putting themselves into a no-win situation by adding AE to the game. After spending all the energy promoting it and then finally implementing it, they can't very well just take it out or gut it so drastically that few players would want to use it. Such an action would be an outright admission that AE has failed miserably and it'd generate a PR nightmare, both within the CoX playerbase and the MMO industry in general. The best they can do at this point is limited damage control and let the playerbase use it for farming, PL or whatever other purposes (within reason of course).

That's also the reason why I think the "don't farm the AE" statements made the devs to be a bunch of hogwash that was based on neither reality nor logic. You don't need to be an MMO veteran to know that whenever a flawed system is implemented, there will be tons of people just waiting in line to beat it. Just look at our IRS tax code.

[ QUOTE ]
Exactly. So logically, if more and more people act in this fashion, and become players that a non-farming individual most likely wouldn't associate with, then most likely there are less players to team with for those who just want to play and not farm.

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That falls into the realm of an individual player's perogative to decide how they want to play the game. Other players in MMO don't exist just to provide you or anybody else with teaming opportunities. The same argument can be made for some soloists, husband/wife teams or those who group exclusively within their SG/VG.

Now, if farmers choose to associate exclusively within their circle and cut off contact with non-farmers, nobody has the authority to tell them otherwise. They're playing the game based on what is most enjoyable to them and if their choice means that you won't be able to find teams easily, that's entirely your problem.

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This is unavoidable, but that doesn't mean the Developers of any MMO should simply stop trying to find ways to allow people to create their own content and at the same time develop counter-measures so that the content isn't exploitable.

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The cost effectiveness issue comes into play here. In terms of corporate balance sheet, the cost of quality control/compliance/auditing is an expensive proposition. Not only do they need to create software capable of capturing and monitoring such data, they also need a sizable staff to operate the systems and to review the results. That's why a lot of MMOs have shot down the idea of player created content. Imagine the manpower (and the salaries they command) it would take to monitor the thousands of content pieces that are undoubtly submitted each day. The magnitude of that task is unimaginable for a small game development company. This is why PS has opted to let the playerbase do the vast majority of content reporting and monitoring which in itself is a bad idea also. It's like asking the customer base to police themselves with nothing to go on but the honor code. The truth of the matter is that PS has put themselves into an impossible position where either way they go will be a no-win situation for them.

[ QUOTE ]

Farming has been discouraged basically since the game started, and has been sytematically nerfed nearly every patch and or issue, any other opinion is wishful thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]

These days, MMO developers discouraging farming is just the result of knee jerk reactions passed down from the days of EQ. Developers may say one thing but actually carrying it out is an entirely different story. Through out the decade long history of MMO, developers haven't exactly tried to eliminate farming entirely. They know it is unfeasible to try something so drastically without alienating a lot of customers so they tolerate it to a certain degree.

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MA farming was specifically verboten basically from conception, regardless of how fast or how well they have curbed it since.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry but that means little. One of the main reasons why many other instance based MMOs did not introduce player created content (even though they had the capability to do just that) into their game was primarily due to the farming/enforcement issue. I know that for a fact and straight from the mouths of several game developers that I know here in the bay area. It's an impossibility to trust the players to not create farm content and even harder to monitor them. I certainly hope Paragon Studio developers weren't really naive enough to think that those rules don't somehow apply to them. You know what those disclaimers were really meant for? It's so the developers will have an excuse later to modify the tool at their discretion. Pre-emptive disclaimer is a common enough practice in the business world but it generally carries little weight.

[ QUOTE ]
perhaps even feeling a bit entitled now based on your post above.

[/ QUOTE ]

Farmers don't feel entitled to anything. Farming as a activity is very reactionary. As you said, farmers go where the the best risk to reward ratio is whether it is AE or regular missions. That certainly does not convey a message of entitlement in any shape or form.

[ QUOTE ]
Regarding your 'worries' about people "trying to impose their will" and your last paragraph, it should be plainly obvious that players have no 'vote' in what the devs choose to do with the game, all we can do is voice an opinion, and i'm pretty sure that the bulk of those never get read by a dev anyways, so anything I or anyone says here has about as much affect on you as me 'telling you' to jump in a lake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait, if anti-farmers really aren't attempting to influence the developers, why are they so insistant in posting a bizillion "AE fix suggestions"? I understand that people like hearing themselves talk but isn't this a bit ridiculous? I suspect that the reason why a lot of anti-farmers post so much is because they *do* hope the developers will read it and falsely believe that the majority of the players are in favor of getting rid of AE farming.

You also forget that anti-farmers don't exist only on the forums, they often try to force their beliefs onto others in-game. Not a day goes by do I not see some anti-farmers spouting their beliefs in Cap or Mercy.

[ QUOTE ]
That being said, I have no doubt at all, that step by step, AE farming will be nerfed, not only because of previous history though,

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't doubt this part at all. I think people are just disagreeing on how *much* AE should be nerfed. Some people want to see the system gutted to the point where no farmer (or anyone who has a remote interest in exp/reward) will ever frequent it. Others just want to bring it down a notch or two but still rewarding none the less. I'm more in the line with the second option and I suspect the developers feel the same way too. Their business is for profit and it's generally not a smart move to alienate a large portion of their revenue source.

[ QUOTE ]
in the simplest sense gross farming is bad for the long term future of the game, the devs know this, its an intrinsic element of the chosen business model.

[/ QUOTE ]

How could you possibly know that farming is bad for the game? This portion of your post sounds a lot like the dooooom predictions people have been making since the days of UO. Name one MMO that was literally brought down by farming or PLing. I personally can't think of any. In fact, the holy trinity of farming (EQ/WoW/FFXI) are still around. On the other hand, right off the top of my head I can name 5 or 6 other MMOs brought down by flawed game design or concept. In essence, "farming is bad for the game" is little more than a myth perpetrated by people who are on the opposite end of the ideology specturm.

[ QUOTE ]
And it is not me telling people to play like me, but rather me making a suggestion of how the Devs can cajole people into playing the game how they want people to play it (or at least how I presume they would want).

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, you are telling people to play like you. After all, it is you (and many other anti-farmers/PLers) that put forth all of these suggestions, not the other way around. In fact, almost all of the "AE fix" suggestions on the forums have been advocating for limiting farming/PL or the outright elimination of it. I personally haven't ran across any threads where farmers/PLers are actually asking for a further proliferation of such content (I could be wrong of course). In anycase, I don't know about you but all of that to me looks exactly like a group of people trying to impose their will onto other groups of people. Your suggestion may have been more mild and subtle in comparison to some of the other ones but it is still contributing towards that misguided goal none the less.

Back to your original suggestion. What difference would such a drastic reduction in rewards (exp and in consequence, inf) make you ask? All the difference in the world since if AE missions don't yield the best potential rewards, the farmers/PLers wouldn't have been using it in the first place. To cut that rewards in half and to also restrict access would most definately have the effect of turning a good portion of players away from AE, if not the game entirely.

Lastly, the developers are the ones who made this bed and now they have to sleep in it. The farmers/PLers are just making the best of it while the game tools are available to them. Should any changes come about that will drastically alter that landscape (which I very much doubt because farmers/PLers pay subscription too), it will be at the developers discretion. It is not the place of other players to tell the farmers/PLers that they're wrong and how things should be because the *other* group really can't claim that they know any better. It is that very reason which illustrates why MMOs should never be a subscriber based democracy and players should never be allowed to govern.

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so iv have a few brutes, i have a elec/fairy aura lvl 40 and a ss/sd thats 38 or 39 and i had a ss/ fairy aura at one point that was fun i was wondering if /stone would be fun but i don't know what my primary would be any ideas?


[/ QUOTE ]

WTF is /Fairy Aura?


[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sure that given half a chance, someone in the Suggestions Forum could come up with 9 powers for that set.

[/ QUOTE ]
...hell, I'd play it.

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Next issue. Create your own power set. That would just make my CoX career.

*edit for double post*

There's nothing you can do to increase the recharge rate of the power. It says so in the power description.

I'm surprised that nowhere in that questionarie did they discuss Blue Steel's original occupation which as we all know, was male super model.

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not ones that I could breeze through half-awake.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've just described 99% of the content in this game.

Really now, CoX is not exactly the most difficult MMO out there. Ever since IO sets came out the vast majority of the content which was balanced around SOs became trivial. Unless you actually manufacture challenge for yourself, such as trying to solo every AV in this game or 2 man the LRSF, the challenge factor in your average run of the mill content is minimal. I'm not trying to sound like I'm this amazingly skilled player who can breeze through 99% of the CoX content with just one arm and both eyes closed. I'm just saying that CoX wasn't designed to be a wipe til you cry, 50 man raid on a 100 million HP uber mob type of game. I've played those types of MMOs, a lot, and the difficulty level in those MMOs is tear inducing when compared to CoX. The way I see it, the difficulty level between your typical level 53/54 farm and your average TF/SF/story arc is negligible.

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I know quite well what happens in an AE farm. I've been on one, several due to the inability of the ones running the farm to properly articulate that they're farming bosses nine times out of ten. The problem isn't who is doing the work, it's that the bosses in question are almost always set up to deal as little damage as possible, while dozens of /FF lieutenants follow the team around with dispersion bubble on. I'm not particularly "anti-Farm", but I don't see how this sort of thing is enjoyable. I mean, we do play this game to enjoy it, right?

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Actually it's not so much about having farm mobs dealing as little damage as possible since the playerbase really have no control over that. The developers do. It's more about setting the mobs up to only dish out the most commonly resisted damage types such as smashing or lethal.

I personally have not been on a lot of allies heavy 52-54 farm missions. It is more common on lowbie farm missions since the characters aren't as decked out and could use the buffs. As for level 50 farming characters (especially the tankers/brutes doing the actual tanking/herding), their benefits are negligible and their presence only serves to generate graphical lag. More trouble than they're worth if you ask me. Of the half dozen or so farms that I consistant run, none of them includes buffing allies.