Warkupo

The argument that Fly has an advantage over other travel powers in that you can take short breaks while your character auto-flies to the mission is invalid due to the fact that with any other travel power I can simply *be* at the mission, use the bathroom, and return before any of the fliers on my team have arrived. I still operate under the same rules of time as the fliers do, after all. In doing this I also avoid embarrassingly returning to see my character has spent the last 2 minutes of his free-will trying desperately to move through a solid object.


The argument that Fly has the advantage of going in a straight line, thus arriving faster has yet to be true during my game-play experience. Save for perhaps Grandville or Terra Volta on a Super Speed character, I have never been beaten to a mission by a flier when we both started from the same point at the same time. I have often beaten the flier even when they had a head start. It is often not even the case for me that fliers can even travel in a straight line. Often a building gets in the way before I can reach a high enough altitude to avoid it, meaning I either have to stop going forward and travel straight up, increasing my travel time, or go around the building at a much slower speed than the others would have gone, and risk hitting another building I will have to go around as well, also increasing my travel time.

Assuming I *did* take the time to go all the way up to the ceiling, I now have to descend as well. If the area is particularly crowded I may not be able to simply descend down to the door. If I decide to just drop down by turning of flight so I can get to the ground quicker I risk taking damage, though I'll admit I do like to suicide drop and turn on hover at the last moment as a thrill so maybe you enjoy this sort of thing. I also risk hitting a spawn I might not have seen from so high up in the clouds when doing this, which, if I just plummeted to the earth like a rock, could wind up in a very embarrassing death.


The argument that Fly has superiority in certain maps is inaccurate as well. The Shard becomes far faster to navigate if you learn and use the jump points located all over the map. It does require that you map the area out a bit, but once done it is far quicker to use SS, SJ, or TP to quickly move to a jump pad and reach your destination in far less time. The only real advantage Fly has in the Shard is that it can be useful if the jump pad decides to be cute and throw you into the abyss, in which case you can activate Fly and correct your course. However, you can also just activate your temporary Fly power, which you can have indefinitely, so it's a moot point. The only zones where Fly has an advantage is Terra Volta, and Grandvill, and only against Super Speeders. Teleporting and Super Jumping work just as well they normally do.


The argument that Fly is safer is due to being out of the sight of anything that could harm it is also in accurate. There are enemies in the sky, but they still travel fairly low to the ground, so I will not include them as a threat. Snipers, however, have proven deadly at times for the slower fliers who can take 2-3 shots before getting out of their range, only to clunk their way into the range of another. This is especially hazardous for squishier characters. Conversely, my Super Speeder is typically unnoticed and out of a sniper's range before the shot even goes off, assuming I am even seen at all. He also has the advantage of slotting the (admittedly expensive) stealth IO for perma-invisibility, thus escaping the attention of nearly every enemy in the game. I have also never died from landing in a bad spot with Super Jump, but then, I have adapted the amazing ability to adjust my camera downward so I can see where I am going before getting there. While on this note, every other travel power has the advantage in that it can move the camera without having to worry that it will ruin its’ path. This is not true for Fly (and teleport to some degree). Teleport has the same vertical advantage Fly does, except that it is also the fastest travel power available, so the snipers are a virtual non-issue. Additionally, a Teleporter can keep moving if it gets immobilized, and can be useful for escaping such a situation in a combat scenario.


Fly has a disadvantage in that you have to slot it to get it to an acceptable level which is, unfortunately, still very low compared to all others. Often I will leave Super Jump and Super Speed with only the initial slot until very late levels, if I slot them at all. Fly, on the other hand, forces you to devote slots to it early so that you can even comprehend getting to a mission in a realistic time, and even then, you will still probably just get teleported by someone faster than you. This problem is alleviated somewhat with IO’s such as Blessing of the Zephyr in that they add benefits from slotting a travel power, however, it isn’t as though the much faster Super Speed and Super Jump can’t also take advantage of these IO bonuses and be made even better than Fly by utilizing them, thus negating any real advantage this might have given Fly.

Fly has a disadvantage in its perquisite powers. Combat Jumping and Hasten often make it into my character builds for their min/maxing potential. Combat Jumping costs nothing, can be slotted for defense and travel, both of which offer very good set bonuses for very few slots, offers the same defense as hover, grants immobilization resistance, and does not disrupt the flow of combat. Hasten makes everything faster, thus allowing me to do everything faster, such as attacking, healing, controlling, whatever, at the cost of a moderate amount of endurance which is typically very easy to get around. It is also essential for perma-Hasten, obviously. Builds which achieve perma-hasten are typically the kinds of creatures that are running around soloing enemies designed to be a challenge for groups of eight and more. Recall Friend is useful for getting the flier to your door, and Teleport Foe is useful for dividing a dangerous spawn, after you've slotted it with some range enhancements to beat the aggro radius of the spawn, of course.

Air Superiority offers limited control for melee characters, but lacks enough power to typically stay on my builds, and becomes less useful as my defenses rise and my need for such gimmicks decreases. Hover is much better after the latest speed boost, and can be slotted similarly to Combat Jumping, however, it's endurance cost is much higher, lacks any res protection of any kind, and leads to Fly, which is still the worst travel power available. Unless your build somehow required both powers, for the interests of reaching the soft cap or fitting in another Luck of the Gambler, or concept, there's no real reason to take Hover over Combat Jumping.


Finally, everyone can Fly now with temporary powers, thus negating any vertical penalties the other travel powers may have had. Not only are they handed out like candy, but you can buy them if you do manage to run out of all the free ones somehow for next to nothing. Actual game play experience has also proven to me that despite the reduced speed of these temp powers compared to Fly, I am still capable of arriving to the mission faster than a flier even if I do have to utilize them. In fact, they made me *faster* than I was before, as I no longer have to go around, thus pretty much *ensuring* that I arrive faster than a flier, where before it might have been close. Additionally, if an enemy flies out of my range, I can just activate my temp power and attack them, thusly negating any advantage Fly or Hover had in a combat scenario as well.


I often feel that arguments against flight getting any sort of buff are based on purely on a conceptual basis, and lack any actual practical analysis. After having practically applied flight in various situations for the better part of three years, I can do nothing but conclude that Flight is the very worst travel power in the game with few, if any, redeeming qualities over other selections which are just as easily available, save, of course, for conceptual reasons.

The only difference between a brute and a scrapper is which city they wound up in.

I have the latest version. For whatever reason it saved a power the character couldn't have had, thus there was no way to get rid of it by just clicking it off, which is why I wanted to know if there was a button command. I wound up just remaking the character off what information I did have without the error.

I was browsing through some of my build ideas, implementing new philosophies and what not, and I noticed the level 50 power for my Scrapper is Adrenaline Boost... Which Scrappers do not get. It's not highlighted anywhere in my power list either, and I don't know how to delete it so I can get the preferred Physical Perfection power in that place that I had wanted. Is there some sort of button command to delete powers?

I would agree to upping the damage a bit on broadsword. It was one of the first powers to have it's animation times tweaked, then kinda go outdone when every other 'scrapper' set also had it's animations tweaked.

I also think procs in general need some balancing. They tend to favor quick powersets way too heavily. Maybe have them scale based upon a powers activation time and damage or something. Damage procs would deal slightly more damage dependent on activation times, and debuff durations would last slightly longer dependent on activation times. As always, I leave exact numbers to this idea purposefully ambiguous.

Katana is statistically superior once you add in IO's. It'll probably stay that way too, since the Dev's won't balance around IO sets. Go for +rech, and destroy everything.

The only reason you should take BS over Katana is if you don't plan to get in depth with IO's *and* prefer the aesthetics of a BS.

Because walkie-talkies that heal me are dumb. I took tough/weave instead.

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The Crow, the scene above the bar with the band playing below. “You're all going to die.” (4:10 if you want to skip right to the violence)

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Great scene for sure. Brandon Lee was definately more scrapper like in Rapid Fire, though(just meaning less ranged attacks).

My favorites include: Much of Kung Fu Hustle, both for entertainment value, and some nifty Martial Arts. And most Jackie Chan movies for the same reason, especially Drunken Master, and Rumble in the Bronx(pretty terrible movie, superior fighting).

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I'm a big Dual Pistols + Katana + Martial Arts scrapper fan. And the Dual Pistols attacks weren't much more than the seven feet of most scrapper attacks. Besides, they were borrowed pistols. He didn't come in with any weapons. They must have been temp powers.

Rapid Fire was fun too. Ditto Kung Fu Hustle, Drunken Master, while Rumble in the Bronx sucked, the fighting was fun.

Hmmm, with customizable powers, I'm going to need to finally start a Martial Arts scrapper.

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I feel as though you're hinting at something you'd like done with this post...

I still think Eagle Claw should be a 'teleport' power ala Shield Charge... It just seems so very Kung-Fu to charge across the screen to kick my enemy in the face.

Nothing says "Assassinated" like being split apart vertically~

I'm rather giddy about the MA thing. Not that I have any idea what I want to change since I enjoy all the animations, but I'm still giddy.

I hope there's a way to make my auras turn *off*. Or at least close to off. I'll settle for more subtle colors at very least.

eheheheheh *runs around in circles*

PVP in RPG's is always a joke. It's a constant arm's race, with everyone jumping on the next big 'thing'. The only place PvP works are in action/shooter games. Even if you do have the best 'whatever', you still have to aim the thing/predict where the guy is coming from/set up ambushes/employ actual TACTICS, etc.

At level 50 I just play my character to play my character with IO's as a guideline for where I'm going next. I don't farm to get it done faster. I'm just blowing time either way, might as well be enjoying it.

You might be happier if you adopted a similiar mindset.

Without any consideration of numbers what so ever, I'm just going to say that dual blades never felt "right" on a brute. Not to say it's a bad powerset on brute or something, just, to me, it seemed too.... Finesse for a brute, I guess.

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Defense IS less Dependable at the low levels. That is ENTIRELY by design. If you don't LIKE the design of Defense = Safety, Resistance = Dependability, then maybe you should play Res sets instead?

However, your argument that 12% defense might as well not be there? That is hyperbole and is NOT an opinion, it is simply factually incorrect. 12% Defense takes you from getting hit by half of attacks to getting hit by a third of attacks. That is not insignificant, but is not yet dependable on the scale of SO slotted powers. That is the design.

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"That is not insignificant" <--- This is the opinion part of your argument. My opinion is that it is insignificant. We're both basing this opinion off the same math, which was the fact part.

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No. YOU said "it may as well not be there". I am saying THAT is factually incorrect. Whether it is significant or not IS a matter of opinion, but saying "it may as well not be there" suggests that 12% does Nothing for you, which is demonstrably false.

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*sigh*

Okay. I feel the number, 12%, a number I included in my original post signifying my undeniable realization of this numbers existence, is insignificant. How insignificant do I think it is? I think "it might as well not even be there." That isn't to say that I think the toggle is lost, or stolen, or disbelieve in the toggles existence. Rather, that the toggle is offering very little right out of the box, and due to the nature of defense with it's "all or nothing" approach it "might as well not even be there." which is all part of my opinion based on the numbers I provided in my other post.

In contrast to resistance which is always on and always working. You aren't going to sometimes resist 12% damage and sometimes resist no damage based on some unknown luck factor. You turn it on, you get a set amount of resistance, and that's the end of it. Defense on the other hand can *say* 12%, but what it really means is the enemy only has a 38% *chance* to hit. That doesn't mean you're only going to get hit 38 times out of a 100. sometimes it's 12 times out of a 100. Sometimes it's 100 times out of a 100. However, as you add a higher percentage to your *chance* to get hit, the *chance* of it occurring is going to decrease. You're much less likely to get 100% of the time when you have 45% defense, but that doesn't mean it still can't happen. It just probably won't.

I don't know how to make my opinion any clearer. There's some numbers for you. There's an opinion above that. Go nuts.

20% is usually what I see without too much sacrifices. I'm more than willing to be proved wrong if you'd like to post some of your builds, though.

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Defense IS less Dependable at the low levels. That is ENTIRELY by design. If you don't LIKE the design of Defense = Safety, Resistance = Dependability, then maybe you should play Res sets instead?

However, your argument that 12% defense might as well not be there? That is hyperbole and is NOT an opinion, it is simply factually incorrect. 12% Defense takes you from getting hit by half of attacks to getting hit by a third of attacks. That is not insignificant, but is not yet dependable on the scale of SO slotted powers. That is the design.

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"That is not insignificant" <--- This is the opinion part of your argument. My opinion is that it is insignificant. We're both basing this opinion off the same math, which was the fact part.

I always made the assumption they put things back together with a team of empaths once they were sent to jail.

I'm pretty sure my Talsorian Broadsword doesn't have a 'flat' side, what with being made out of energy...

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The scrapper forum has a lot of vocal number crunching powergamers with apparently unlimited amounts of influence to blow on the most expensive of IOs. But that doesn't mean that you can't get by on SOs. I level up using mostly SOs, common IOs and frankenslotted attacks, which is the power for cheap approach. I can afford better, but I don't bother except on the occasional level 50. Scrappers are just fine without all that shiny, expensive equipment. The shiny equipment just makes them, well, completely overpowered for 99% of content.



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I usually go purely with SO's until level 50, save for the occasional quality of life IO's like KB mez and what not. I've yet to have a powerset combination that wasn't viable to play this way or absolutely required any IO's at all.

By level 50 I start playing the character to get the most powerful IO's possible. Therefore, I build every character to be as good as it can possibly be without any regard to how ridiculously expensive it would be to do so. It's really just an excuse to keep playing the character at 50. I don't see a reason to set a cash limit when I'm mostly blowing time anyway. Either way I'm going to be playing this game.

I assume I'm not the only one who does this based on the number of ridiculous builds I see floating around.

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<snipping the quoteamid>

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Nope, you just don't know how to play your SR. ALL scrappers have weak defense in the low levels.

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I'm going to entirely disagree with this comment with the same amount of factual evidence as you provided.

[/ QUOTE ]Ummm, all scrappers do have weaker defenses pre-22. There's a leap around 10-16 when they get the mez protection, and then at 22 when they (finally) get SOs. The only scrappers that aren't as weak pre-22 are BS and Katana primaries due to the godliness that is Parry/Divine Avalanche, /Regen, which gets Integration and DP, its main tools, pre-22, which, like most self-heals, are viable without slotting for the first few levels.

Dark Armor is staggering under a massive end deficit pre-SOs. Fiery is leaning entirely on HF there, and because of how their mez protection is split up, can't even pick and choose armors. Willpower doesn't get QR until 20, and its main tool for survival being a taunt aura can easily hurt more than it helps pre-SOs, when the other defenses, and itself, are operating below SO efficiency. Invuln's big tool isn't until 28, and it doesn't have SOs for Resists. SR is lacking AoE defense, and is only on DOs. Shields blooms earlier in terms of pure defense, but it still has issues with its other mitigation and Defense DOs only being +10%.


There's some actual facts. Scrappers (as well as Brutes, Tankers, and Stalkers) have issues pre-22.

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My comment was mostly in irritation that Dispari went through the trouble of detailing a well constructed argument and the reply it gets basically amounts to "Well, you're wrong. So there." That's so incredibly annoying when you're trying to have a debate about something.

Anyway, I generally feel defense in general suffers more at lower levels than anything else by the nature that it either works or it doesn't, and you need a lot of it to work well. Regen and Resistance does not. Even if it's only 12% resistance before you can get DO's and SO's, at least it's doing something, even if small. 12% defense, on the other hand, might as well not even be there when it's all you have to rely on.

Even as the powersets grow and start getting their notable powers, click heals, etc., /sr is still stacking on defenses it's whole life until it finally has them all, at which point you take a dramatic turn and become *very* good.


granted, this whole argument is very much opinion based, so your mileage may very.

Poison is too evil, but it's perfectly okay to run around with a broadsword cleaving people in half everywhere I go?

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Still, so long as we are going to discuss it, we might as well say how we feel about it.

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Well, if that's the case, then nerf Parry/Divine Avalanche and give Cobra Strike some more love.

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How about we just buff Cobra Strike and save me the trouble of shoving a sword up your spine~ :P

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Viera: Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Martial Arts
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Storm Kick -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(17), Mako-Dam%(39)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(5), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(15)
Level 2: Focused Senses -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(5), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(11)
Level 4: Agile -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(23), LkGmblr-Def(40)
Level 6: Air Superiority -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg(7), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 8: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg(9), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(17), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(37)
Level 10: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A), Jump-I(13), Jump-I(13)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 16: Dodge -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(40), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 18: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(23), RgnTis-Regen+(40), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(48), Numna-Heal/Rchg(48), Mrcl-Rcvry+(50)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21), P'Shift-End%(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(43)
Level 22: Quickness -- Run-I(A)
Level 24: Crippling Axe Kick -- Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(25), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Hectmb-Dmg(34), Hectmb-Dam%(36)
Level 26: Dragon's Tail -- Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(A), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(27), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Armgdn-Dmg(29), Armgdn-Dam%(34)
Level 28: Lucky -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(42), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 30: Focus Chi -- AdjTgt-Rchg(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(31), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 32: Crane Kick -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), FrcFbk-Rechg%(37)
Level 35: Evasion -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(36), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(36), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 38: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(39), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(39)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(A), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(42), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(42), GSFC-Build%(45), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(46), GSFC-ToHit(46)
Level 44: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(45), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(48), Zephyr-ResKB(50), Winter-ResSlow(50)
Level 49: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- HO:Nucle(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- HO:Micro(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit


This is the MA/SR scrapper I'm building for. It has.... Some recharge. 187% to be exact. Currently it's at level 22. You'll notice it has Air Superiority and Boxing, but no Thunder Kick. Why?

Thunder Kick does better DPS than these powers, that's for certain. But, in the grand scheme of things, it would have actually winded up being more detrimental to my build if I tried to use it as one of my earlier attacks.

Boxing does comparable damage, and grants me easy access to Tough and Weave. Had I not made it a part of my attack chain, I would have had to make a cut somewhere else in my build to fit in those three powers. Without Tough and Weave I'd have a much more difficult time trying to cap my positional defense, and would have a harder time when my HP starts falling with my scaling resists.

Air Superiority is a good attack that also does comparable damage to Thunder Kick, but offers far better mitigation. This is especially important in early levels for /SR while it struggles to get all it's defenses together. I would be quite dead many times if I didn't have this power in my build. Even when my recharge and defense makes this superfluous to use, I can still think of plenty situations where swooping in and knocking the enemy over repeatedly could save an alley from a potential face plant.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it's important to focus on the entirety of the build, not just how much DPS it can crank out. Sure, thunder kick can do better damage, but the things Air Superiority and Boxing offered to my build not only pleased me more thematically, but they also aided me far more greatly than Thunder Kick in a game play perspective as well.

Leadership isn't bad. It's effects is a bit diminished on scrappers, but all the powers have a place still.

Assault: It gives more damage. Can you really argue with that as a scrapper? If you can fit it in, why not? It makes a good base to build of IO damage bonuses.

Maneuvers: Easier to fit into than Weave, and only missing a little bit more defense. This is very good for getting that last little bit of defense you need to soft cap, where every percentage counts. Also another good place for LOTG: Recharge. I liked stacking this with Grant Cover on my /shield to give people around me a 15% defense bonus, which I consider high enough to be worth it.

Tactics: I like this for the wrong reasons. I'm a big fan of the Build-Up IO, but not a huge fan of Focused Accuracy's huge as hell endurance cost. Que tactics swinging in like some great equalizer to satisfy my needs. I'm also a big fan of six slotting this for the defense bonus set Guassian gives. The To-Hit for me and all my friends is a nice bonus.

Then there's Vengeance. I've never taken this on a scrapper for some reason, but it's a frequent player on my Controller/Defender/Tankers. You'r on a team, and you bound around a corner to suddenly run into 2 spawns with an ambush angrily on it's way to cave your skull in. People's HP starts dropping quickly, and some one inevitably goes down. Then you pop Vengeance. The clouds part and the sky turns blue, birds are chirping, Bob Marley comes back to life and starts singing... Vengeance quickly turns the tide of a situation about to go downhill, and does it spectacularly. I may not be able to rez the guy that died, but I'll make damn sure nobody else is going down with him.