Unthing

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the Mud Pots taunt and slow was auto hit now... Just the damage needs a to hit roll.

I would still say Fire is a better aggro keeper than Granite though.

Putting 2 end reducers in Fire Shield is probably a waste of slots IMO. Fire Shield has a really small end drain.

Congratulations!

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You are using action times. In order to work out rough eps values for the attacks you need to use action time + recharge time.

Stone fist recharge 4, 5.2/(0.57+4) = 1.13
Hurl Boulder, recharge 8, 9.36/(3.83+8) = 0.79

I might as well do the whole lot ( numbers from here)

The others are
Stone Mallet 0.92
Heavy Mallet 0.90
Build Up 0.06
Fault 0.46
Tremor 0.78
Seismic Smash 0.86

This assumes you fire off all the powers as soon as they recharge and they are slotted with equal end reds and recharge. It also assumes you aren't running Hasten.

So every time you get a new attack, it costs you about 0.8ish end per second.

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i use action times yes but i dont wait for recharge because i am using another attack costing endurance in that recharge time. So eps is constantly changing within an attack chain, using your attack chain you would get an average eps. ill go away and be back with shannons in a mo.

Her average chain eps is 4.70 eps with all attacks with an endurance slot in them and base end recovery but with stamina it becomes -2.04 eps and all thats without toggles running as well. Thats how i looks at things. Which is why i say it looks bad but ya have to look at your overall attack chain.

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Seems a bit complicated.

I do this.

Work out the eps per power includung the recharge and sum them. Because the eps of the power includes it's recharge it is about as accurate as your way, so long as you are waiting for the powers to recharge.

So if I have Stone Mallet, Stone Fists, Heavy Mallet and Fault and use them as much as possible I have an average eps of 0.92+1.13+0.9+0.46 = 3.41.

I just worked out Golden Golem's current build.
He uses Combustion, FSC, Incineratre and GFS all slotted 1 end and 1 recharge. This is 2.95 eps, 4.15 with Hasten active.
I am planning to get the Pyre Mastery epic, so I'll be using Combustion, FSC, Incinerate, GFS, Fire Blast and Fireball. With the same slotting this would be 4.37 eps, 6.17eps with Hasten which is far too much. Changing to 2 end reds brings me to 2.74eps , 4.29eps with Hasten. This still might be a little too much for him to handle.

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One end red per attack is usually enough. Attacks generally cost about 1 end per second each

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Look at stone fist action time 0.57secs endurance cost 5.2 points, endurance used per second becomes 9.1228

hurl boulder action time 3.83 secs endurance cost 9.36 points, endurance per second becomes 2.4439

It looks bad dont it, but you need to look at your overall attack chain to know whats bad:P


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You are using action times. In order to work out rough eps values for the attacks you need to use action time + recharge time.

Stone fist recharge 4, 5.2/(0.57+4) = 1.13
Hurl Boulder, recharge 8, 9.36/(3.83+8) = 0.79

I might as well do the whole lot ( numbers from here)

The others are
Stone Mallet 0.92
Heavy Mallet 0.90
Build Up 0.06
Fault 0.46
Tremor 0.78
Seismic Smash 0.86

This assumes you fire off all the powers as soon as they recharge and they are slotted with equal end reds and recharge. It also assumes you aren't running Hasten.

So every time you get a new attack, it costs you about 0.8ish end per second.

@Shannon
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Don't bother taking icicles with fire secondary, get breath of fire instead.

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Your going to be surrounded by mobs from herding you may as well be doing great damage whilst you are doing so. I look at the damage it does to one and times it by 10 (the amount it can hit in total) and then look at the endurance cost and it does looks like value for money to me. Obviously a poor power when you use it on a small amount of foes at a time.

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I'd recommmend Icicles too. Breath of Fire means you need to get out of your herd, risking missing a chilling embrace tick, and you are never going to hit more than 3-4 enemies with it anyway. Normally I can manage about 1-3. Icicles will happily hit 5-6 in most circumstances and doesn't root you.

@MaXimillion
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Don't bother taking taunt early, or at least don't prioritize it high in slotting, you won't need it with CE.

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I'd go with you on the slotting priorities. Generally I've found Taunt pretty good without slots.
Fire has a great advantage over other tanker secondaries for taunting. Given that most of the time you will be spamming Combustion/FSC rather than using your Single target attacks, you can be targetting enemies outside your Aura with taunt and protect your teammates from them.

Why are you so anti taunt?

I don't think Aid Self is needed. I am very happy with the defences of my Ice tank, with no Fighting Pool or Medicine pool.

However I'm sure it will help, but that kind of defeats the point of having a secondary.

Also IIRC Quartz Enimators were broken for most of I6 and didn't get spawned.

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I don't see Taunt in any of the build you proposed so I hope you get a backup, taunting, proper tanker when trying AVs because they'll just ignore you if they're not taunted due to the last changes (unless you 3 slot all your attacks for taunt...) and they're likely to cause some big messes.


[/ QUOTE ]The few I've done so far have been fine. The only change was done changed the way AV's react to damage, gauntlet still applies as normal, as does CE.

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This is not about Ice, it is about SS. Against AVs you are likely to be using Rage in order to gain extra damage. Especially in small teams.
This means that every 2 minutes you lose 10 seconds of taunt time. CE has a tick time and taunt duration of 2-3 seconds, I don't know the duration of gauntlet for the various attack. This means that there is large enough window for a team wipe.
Taunt has a good duration so if you taunt before Rage drops you have a good chance of not killing your team.

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I have a question...
What should I fill my insp tray with? I'm thinking plenty of greens with a smattering of awakens and def buffs....

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Last time I brought all awakens. Def buffs are pointless, Hami is auto hit.

I would personally recommend Awakens and Break Frees. Awaken for when you die, break frees to overcome the stun of the Awaken.

The most importnant and dangerous part of the raid for us is deployment. This is where we all suicidally drop on the same side of Hami whilst taunting and try not to get wiped out. If/when we do a fast awaken/break free combo will allow us to ( as a team ) keep aggro by making sure there is a constant taunt blanket. A couple of greens may improve survivability, I'm not sure by how much.

Hopefully soon after that the Kin cell will get their healing blanket over us and we can relax.

Looks better than the last one.

I don't think the To Hit Buff in Super Jump is significant, you are probably best off putting those 2 in attacks.

Is that the best way to slot Aid Self, I would have thought adding at least 1 recharge would be worthwhile. Either way it is still 6 slots.

Other than that it looks fine. How's your end drain? I tried my new Golden Golem build and the end drain was awful. But I did have 2 more attacks...

If you use it as a res and a res only, 1 recharge is probably enough.

I'm planning on getting it on my Corruptor as my level 35 power.

I was going to slot it 3xRecharge, 3xDisorient so it should ( if Hero Builder is correct ) be a 60 second disorient available every 90 seconds. I believe it is auto hit too.

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Combat Jumping + Hurdle = Fast Jumping speed + moderate combat maneuveribility.

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I've personally never had any problems with CJ + Hurdle and controlling enemy positions.

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Jumping over a single enemy is a herd is easier with just Combat Jumping.

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I thought maneouvres had been nerfed al;ong with the global defence reduction to something like 3% even when enhanced with 3SO's?

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I was assuming that the defender just has an end red in it.

It gives 2.5 defence for defenders according to hero builder.

A total of 2.5 defence means you get hit 5% less than with no defence and so take at least 5% less damage than they would have without it. If you slot it up everyone takes at least 7% less damage.

I didn't explain what I meant about Maneuvers very well.

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Hurdle will still do more for you than Swift since you aren't using Stealth, Fly or Teleport.

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That entirely depends on personal preference.

Combat Jumping + Swift = awesome fine control combat maneuverability + moderate on ground speed.

Combat Jumping + Hurdle = Fast Jumping speed + moderate combat maneuveribility.

One of my high level tanks has Combat Jumping and Swift the other has Combat Jumping and Hurdle.

With CJ + Hurdle I can reliably jump from one side of the spawn to the other, hit someone and jump back.

With CJ + no Hurdle I can reliably spot jump from one place in a combat to another 2-5 metres away in order to finely manage enemies. This cannot be done as easily with Hurdle.

To be honest sometimes I wish I could turn Hurdle off as I would like to be able to do both tricks on both tanks.


As for the OP. It seems like a reasonable build, although I might consider getting stamina earlier ( delaying KO blow ) and also consider Hasten earlier perhaps instead of Resist Elements or Resist Energies ( make sure you get Resist Energies first out of the 2 though ).
Hasten will improve the recharge of Dull Pain and Foot Stomp ( 2 important powers for your survival ) and save you at least a slot in Rage ( 2 recharge + perma Hasten and Rage is always available before or during the Rage crash ).

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Do these powers have a use outside of the "Oh Bleep" desperate measure?

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For a blaster, with Aim and Build Up they normally wipe out everything but Bosses ( with a few others standing ).

For a Corruptors/Defender they are more like "Oh %@~#£!" moves as the 70% base damage and the lack of Build Up makes them less good. Although I'm looking forward to Thunderous Blast on my Kin defender as he should be able to have enough damage buffs to use it effectively.

Some of them also have evil secondary effects on the enemies. For example he sonic nuke has a long disrorient attached to it.

I have an Ice Blaster. I run with no ACCs as I have Targetting Drone. With 1-2 ends and 1-2 recharges in each attack I can blast for ages before running out of end.

Freeze Ray is worth 6 slotting. Without any Holds it is okay, with 6 slots ( ACC, 3xHOLD, 2xRECHARGE for me ) it is truly awesome. You should at least put 3 or 4 slots in it though.

Frost Breath may be worth getting for AOE damage. With 1 range SO you can stand at range and use your 3 blasts, Freeze Ray and Frost Breath. I find it essential for teams.

Bitter Freeze Ray is only really any good as an opener against bosses followed up by Freeze Ray and other single target attacks.

Your slotting order seems a bit odd. It looks like you are six slotting attacks in turn, I would slot things in a more balanced way, giving 3-4 slots and then spreading them around. Ice Blast and Ice Bolt should probably get equal slotting initially, as for the melee attacks, it depends how much you use them. I would 3 slot Aim and Build Up far earlier as having one of these up most of the time at level 22 is a godsend.

I normally only really concentrate on the first 25 levels or so when initially doing a build, anymore seems excessive to me and generally I find that slotting order gets too complex.

I don't see the point of getting Assault either unless you are going to get tactics at 22.

If you a planning a respec at level 26-27ish I would try out some of the powers from your primary and secondary.

Also after having Assault on my Kin, I'm not sure whether Maneuvers might be a better power choice.

It boosts damage by a 18% buff, this is about 10% extra damage for an unbuffed team on SOs. However when you start stacking Siphon Power you can get a 50% buff, meaning Assault is only a about a 7% increase in damage. Once you hit 32 with Fulcrum Shift you can easily hit a 200% damage buff, if not hitting the damage cap, making Assault give anything from 0-5% extra damage.

The other option is Maneuvers which will give everyone at least 5% a less chance of being hit and is also enhanceable.

Most of the Ice toggles cost the same.

Chilling Embrace, Frozen Armour, Glacial Armour and Wet Ice all are about 0.24 end per second. When you get SOs 1 end red is enough. Beforehand you may need more. The first end red cuts it to 0.18, the second cuts it to 0.14. For 4 extra slots ( the 2nd end red in all armours ) you cut your end drain by 0.16 end per second. That really isn't a very good investment of slots, better off putting one end red in one attack which will save you something in the region of 0.2-0.3 end per second.

Thanks Kin. I'm honored that you want me to be the taunt team leader. I guess I'll have to swot up on our tactics.

I'll keep the team as Kinslayer suggests. I think we have a few of the people who were in team in the previous raid.

One important thing to realise is that we had multiple teams wipes on the way to the gathering point. These were due to the combo of group fly and those nasty swarms.

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For reference, my planned ice/axe build (slightly different from what I have, wanted to see if I liked icicles, wasn't worth it):


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But for Ice/SS 6 slotted it is.

Rage + Icicles = 2nd most damaging power I have.

My build + few level extra

01) --> Frozen Armor==> DefBuf(1) DefBuf(3) DefBuf(3) EndRdx(9) EndRdx(17)
01) --> Jab==> Dmg(1) EndRdx(15) Acc(17) Dmg(40)
02) --> Chilling Embrace==> EndRdx(2) Taunt(7)
04) --> Haymaker==> EndRdx(4) Dmg(5) Dmg(5) Acc(9) EndRdx(36) Rechg(36)
06) --> Wet Ice==> EndRdx(6) EndRdx(7)
08) --> Hoarfrost==> Rechg(8) Rechg(11) Rechg(11) Heal(13) Heal(13) Heal(15)
10) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(10)
12) --> Taunt==> Taunt(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Hurdle==> Jump(16)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18) Heal(19) Heal(19)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(21) EndMod(21)
22) --> Icicles==> EndRdx(22) Dmg(23) EndRdx(23) Dmg(33) EndRdx(34) Dmg(34)
24) --> Glacial Armor==> DefBuf(24) DefBuf(25) DefBuf(25)
26) --> Energy Absorbtion==> Rechg(26) DefBuf(27) DefBuf(27) DefBuf(31) Rechg(31) Rechg(31)
28) --> Hasten==> Rechg(28) Rechg(29) Rechg(29)
30) --> Rage==> Rechg(30) Rechg(36)
32) --> Knockout Blow==> Acc(32) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) EndRdx(34) Rechg(37) EndRdx(37)
35) --> Hibernate==> Rechg(35) Rechg(37)
38) --> Foot Stomp==> Dmg(38) Dmg(39) Rechg(39) EndRdx(39) EndRdx(40) Rechg(40)
41) --> Block of Ice==> Hold(41) Hold(42) Hold(42) Acc(42) Rechg(43)
44) --> Ice Blast==> Dmg(44) Dmg(45) Dmg(45) EndRdx(45) EndRdx(46) Rechg(46)

The main mistake I made was 2x end reds in the early toggles. With SOs I think 1 is all that is required. Also if I redid it I would take hoarfrost before Wet Ice.

I mainly played with a Nova form PB, so I wasn't too bothered about damage.

I run Rage perma.

I got taunt at 10 or 12 because I really really hated not having it. Originally it was going to be taken at 22, but I kept on having 'I'll just use taunt on him .. DOH!' moments so I gave in.

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No experience, but in theory an excellent combo. 2 AOEs early, which will allow you to herd and nuke your own spawns. Which is nice.

Short Circuit + EMP may be able to fully bottom a spanws endurance. Needs testing.

[/ QUOTE ] Slotted correctly, 2x Short Circuit generally works.

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Tesla Cage will be very useful to keep your anchor pinned.

[/ QUOTE ] And clearly visible.

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Having played fire in the RV event at 40 (doing normal missions cause I snuck away from RV) and DA they are quite comparible. DA can rescue itself from a much worse state than Fire can, but fire doesn't get into that bad a state as often. The only real time DA shines is Psi, and then it really shines. Wann fight Carnies and Rikti as much as possible, go DA (three guesses at my two favourite enemy groups)

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I have a /Fire brute and a /Dark scrapper.

Fire wins hands down on end usage, it is really cheap, both in end usage and power costs as you only need 3 powers. It has an okay heal that saves you loads and provides most of your survability. Burn may increase survivability a bit. I'm not sure how much though.

Dark is more expensive, it has 3 must run toggles rather than 2 and they are comparable cost. Where it really shines is the self heal. It basically is a full hitpoint heal in many circumstances, that is available twice as often as the fire heal. It unfortunately costs loads of end though. Also Dark gets 3 other option defensive powers, the 2 controlling powers, which increase your survivabilty at the cost of fury and Cloak of Darkness for a small amount of defence.

One end red per attack is usually enough. Attacks generally cost about 1 end per second each, so as you get more attacks slot mroe end reducers. Attacks you use regularly should be 6 slotted, I use 1 acc, 3 dam and then end red and/or recharges.

The fire shields are really cheap, any more than 1 end red SO with stamina is probably a waste of slots.

6 slot blazing aura, put 3 end reds in there.
6 slot healing flames ASAP. Put 3 recharge

I'm not convinced that Consume is worth delaying stamina for as it is only good when 3 slotted with SOs. My Fire/Fire tank does not have it 26 and has felt no need to, with 3 attacks and shields with no end reds.