The_Killbot_5000

Yep, that's the appropriate method and most probable way of reducing swearing on channels in-game.

That's why this is a thought-exercise. It's a clear cut what-if scenario, the bare bones of the ethical dilemma and nothing more, no awkward national loyalties to get in the way and bias us all. You're not meant to look for a real-world scenario and work with that, you're just meant to go with the question as asked. Tricky that way isn't it?

How dreadfully nationalistic and xenophobic. As far as I'm concerned if it's human and on this planet, it's my people.

While I tend to agree with the sentiment expressed (and it applies to the whole world in my opinion) that doesn't change the rules.

I don't think he missed your point, but rather actively avoided it. Much easier to try and undermine your argument that way.

I lol'd! We can see which end of the spectrum your morality lies...at least for mind-games anyways.

Wow! You really are Super! I think I'll call you Fish-boy! Don't forget to hold your breath!

What are you doing in this Red sector Blue 17? Don't worry, the emergency mind reclaimation bots will be here shortly. Remember to smile for the scalpel!

Nice thought about a Computer contact in Praetoria though!

Fair enough. I'm getting to the point where I'm willing to believe that the Clockwork King may have nothing to do with the Praetorian Clockwork's creation, but I still think that it'd be a really neat storyline to develop. Something for me and the Mission Architect to work on perhaps.

I'd like to do a Poll about who people think will be most likely creator but I can't seem to figure out how. Did we lose that ability on these forums?

Regardless, the idea of the 'evil scheme', I think is brilliant, and if the 90% who fail Chimera's programme just get killed, well, quite frankly I'd be disappointed with that tale.

I prefer to base the discussion of moral relativism around this argument. For the purposes of the debate, none of the below question is negotiable or changeable, just use your imagination to come up with a scenario if it makes you happier but this question is a doozy for any philosopher.


You learn that millions of people are about to die through an act which you can only prevent by killing hundreds of thousands. What do you do?

So it's been stated by Hero1 that Praetoria has no Clockwork King? Hrmm. Are there any other details you can give me about what was said of the Clockwork King?

Hi Silas. This is proof of what? That Paragonwiki has information about the current incarnation of Clockwork from Praetoria that's on the live servers in a few missions? That the info says that they are the creators, that's excellent. I'm referring to the new Going Rogue incarnation of the Praetorian Clockwork which as yet doesn't have any official backstory that I'm aware of.

So, essentially the existing info from the Tina MacIntyre arcs only provides the most basic of information about them. They are created by Anti-Matter to prove his worth to Tyrant and Dominatrix. That these versions of the Clockwork look physically different from the new Going Rogue versions and that there is nothing specifically outlining the process he went through to create them.

I can imagine numerous ways in which the two story-lines can be converged. The Clockwork seen in the Tina MacIntyre arc were designed by Anti-Matter as copies of the version he'd seen on Prime Earth, that way they'd be less likely to expose his inter-dimensional nature. This wouldn't preclude the idea that back on his home dimension of Praetoria a different version (the Going Rogue version) of Clockwork are actually the shells for the mind-controlled Supers who have failed Chimera's induction programme.

Although I've linked the Clockwork King of Praetoria (existant or not we do not know) to the Praetorian Clockwork's creation it's not essential that he be involved at all for the crux of my theory to be correct. That those shiny blue and silver 'robots', may actually be Supers who failed Chimera's induction programme.

The Prateorian Clockwork seen already in the game (sprocket and cog types) who turn out to have been created by Neuron and Antimatter could easily be explained in several ways. First, they could well have been inspired by Prime Earth's Clockwork King and his version of Clockwork to create their own robots for their nefarious plots in our dimension. Alternately, Emporer Cole could be claiming that they are Neuron and Antimatters technological creations as a cover story for rather unsettling idea that inside those metal skins are the hearts, minds and bones of your sister Kim who should be 'overseas' fighting the good fight.

It leads nicely into the idea that the Resistance are aware of this and probably other aspects of Cole's evil scheme, and so do all they can to get the news out.

It is the absense of information about the Prateorian counterpart to the individual who on Prime Earth became the Clockwork King, that makes me think that he may be central to the conspiracy. We have had a lot of information about the new Praetorian Clockwork, we've seen screenies, live gameplay demos, costume code giveaways, but in all this has it specifically been mentioned who their creator is? If not, why not? I would think because it's central to the storyline and not something that they'd want to reveal except through gameplay.

If there is an offical NCSoft / Paragon quote from a Redname somewhere that specifically states that the Prateorian Clockwork (in their Going Rogue incarnation) are the products of Neuron and Antimatters tech skills then I'll happily drop the idea of the Pratorian Clockwork King being behind them.

Even if that's the case though, I'm still firm in my convictions that their presence on the streets of Praetoria as a 'servant' class to do 'menial' labour, therefore contributing to Cole's 'greater good', plays perfectly into the seditious thought that they are the failed output of Chimera's induction programme.

I see one of two scenarios:

• The Clockwork King as such never came to be. Blue Steel didn't do the big bad on him (one of those alter/mirror universe duality thingies), he didn't turn to evil etc. He was taken into Chimera's programme and passed, thus becoming one of Cole's lackeys to do his bidding.
• He was inducted into Chimera's programme when his psychic talents were noticed by Mother Mayhem and her psychic friends network. He failed, Mother Mayhem and her merry band of mind-riders now control him and he controls the Praetorian Clockwork.

On the topic of their appearance, it's very 'un-clockwork' like isn't it, barely a sprocket or cog to be seen. Their appearance is more akin to a regular human, and look, they come in male, female and huge, what do ya know?

Too tempting...