Tetsuko_NA
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Well, that's a relief.Originally Posted by MajorPrankster
No.
Exclusive promotions annoy a very small percentage of the customer base. (snip)
Oh, out of curiosity, roughly what percentage is that?
And how did you come up with your numbers?
Thanks in advance! -
I love costumes and particularly auras in CoH.
I do not love them as much as I hate Twitter.
If the Devs were seeking to remind me (and, apparently, some other people) of that fact, they have succeeded.
Is there any chance we can get some feedback on how much content will be forever locked behind chance-oriented mechanisms like Grab-A-Code and SuperPacks? Just so the tiny fringe of us who don't like those things can know how much content we'll be expected to miss? -
Quote:Yeah, but that "BAM" bit is pretty much the definition of "Watch that first step - it's a doozy!"Originally Posted by Tenzhi
You gotta say "YOU! SHALL NOT! PASS!" and then *BAM!* you have the power of white.
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Quote:Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Because this is an internet forum?
That's what we do here.
I was wondering why you were referencing a poster you (apparently) don't agree with.
I was asking if you thought their opinion was the majority opinion - in which case your comments about few people being like SG are hard to parse - or if you thought their opinion wasn't - in which case, why you thought it would carry any weight is hard to parse.
(emphasis added)Quote:Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Did I stutter? No? Then why are you confused?
I don't want a store option, period.
If they insisted on a store option I would be less hostile to a price point reflecting the high end of what super pack buyers spent than the 'usual' market price. But it would still cost them my commerce on future super pack releases.
Why is that, when you could almost certainly get it cheaper through the SuperPacks?
This is why I seem confused - if you wouldn't accept any price point for a store option, why are you concerned with saying you don't want a specific price point?Quote:Originally Posted by Nethergoat
The price of the Elemental Order set is fluid, potentially differing for each buyer.
I wouldn't accept a price at the "average"- then you're shafting the people who spent more than that for their sets.
You are opposed to that price point, and twice that price point, and twice that price point, too, yes?
You are opposed to all price points of any sort, so having a discussion about them makes no sense, yes?
At present, the Devs apparently agree with you.Quote:Originally Posted by Nethergoat
You don't "earn" super packs, you buy them.
The elemental order set isn't about 'work', it's about spending money.
I don't care that they added the Vanguard stuff and whatever else to the store- not having a life schedule that generally has space for 'raiding' I mostly ignored it, aside from grinding War Zone missions for enough merits to grab the katana for one of my older characters.
In game effort is an entirely different currency than $$$- all you've spent is time, when you'd presumably have been playing the game anyway. You just focused your attention on a certain area for a while.
Cash isn't like that.
If you're going to make a game prize available at a certain price point to one group of players, there's going to be trouble (one way or another) if another group of players is offered the same prize at a different price.
And when that price for the first group of players is a variable....well.
I feel the devs would be well served by leaving this lie.
Thank you for your time - you've written a lot in response to me, and I appreciate what you had to say, regardless of our level of agreement. -
Quote:Do you think Snow Globe is typical of the community at large? If so, why oppose their viewpoint? If not, why bring them up at all?Originally Posted by Nethergoat
It would be a pointless effort on their part- raising the price enough to mollify those who'd already burned various amounts of points on superpacks would likely enrage those who currently want to buy the pack through the store.
Wanting a store option is basically wanting the costume pack at a discount.
If they were offered in the store at a suitable premium the characters we have here complaining about "gambling" would instead be complaining about price gouging.
See Snow Globe's generous offer to pay 400 points and not a jot more.
So - and perhaps you can understand why I am confused - you were earlier saying that a store option would be tolerable if it were priced high enough, and now you are saying it is impossible to price a store option high enough to be tolerable?
And, if pricing the store option to the average level of SuperPack purchase would result in cries that it is overpriced... did that actually change the price? Or just give us the Real Numbers?
Actually, I don't think I am all that unusual in my attitude towards other people getting things in this particular community. It has been my experience during previous incidents of costume availability increasing that there are a few individuals who complain about all of the 'work' they put into obtaining an item, and that it becoming generally available has ruined it for them. These people are usually laughed off by the general playerbase, not just some supposed philosophical upper crust.Quote:Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Clearly you are an enlightened soul and are entitled to look down on the rest of us with bemused tolerance- gratz!
That's just been my experience, of course.
Lastly, I'm sorry if my honest desire for as many people as possible to have the things they want in some way offends you. I don't know if it's enlightened, and I certainly don't feel entitled to condescend. -
Quote:But presumably, you feel you're not typical of the playerbase, then, in your reaction to this, am I reading you right?Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Because it's a bad idea that will piss many people off.
I'm philosophically against liberalizing availability of stuff, but I generally get why they do it- they make the calculation that the goodwill they'll earn will exceed the ire from those who previously 'bought' the item by whatever means.
(snip)
A lot of players bought a lot of super packs in the recent past.
Put Elemental Order in the store anytime soon and brace for the firestorm.
What you see in this thread is skewed because the people who're happy with the status quo are mostly not posting. People *with* a complaint are much more likely to participate in these things than people without.
Support it?
No.
I think the status quo is fine and don't see why an alternative should be supplied.
Tolerate it?
Sure, provided the convenience fee for avoiding the packs was high enough to offset the premium payed by pack buyers.
You'd tolerate it, but most people wouldn't?
(Personally, I am for as much liberalization of non-combat stuff as possible - I want everyone to have the greatest possible opportunity to create the costume they wish, and I have never felt the slightest resentment at someone else getting something I have, or have had access to.)
Lastly,
Why does that only work in one direction?Quote:If they price it what it would take to "normally get them", then people can just buy packs, no?
Given typical pricing, if the EO set were not offered as a bundle, but only as individual pieces, what would the total cost for the set come to? Would that comparable to the 'average' SuperPack purchase to get it?
I'm not sure how to go about answering that question. -
Quote:(emphasis added to highlight my question)Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Yes.
It is a fact of human behavior that if you mislead customers, they get mad at you.
Correct me if I am wrong, but when these were announced, the Dev team said that they had no plans at that time to release the costume pieces any other way.
Of course, almost every single other once-exclusive item is now available through multiple means, such as capes, auras, Alpha slots, etc. Why would this be different?
I'm not saying you're wrong, but that's why I'm asking the question I'm asking. Most people appear to be saying something between "I'd be a little annoyed, depending on price point," and "I don't really care," but then turning around and saying that those guys over there would really be mad. I myself haven't seen more posts saying "I'd be really angry if they offered them," than I have "I'm really angry they aren't offering it."Quote:Originally Posted by Nethergoat
As this thread demonstrates there are a couple of people who're upset with this system of distribution and refuse to engage it, or engage it under protest. Their unhappiness is the equivalent of a pleasant summer breeze compared to the hurricane of rage that making them generally available now, after many, many, many people bought piles of super packs chasing them would whip up.
Actually, if I remember correctly from Beta, several people who disliked the idea of the SuperPacks said they would prefer to buy the costume pieces, even if it cost more than the average rolling for them with the Packs.Quote:Originally Posted by Nethergoat
The only way it would work would be if the price point was high enough to make Super Pack purchasing the more cost effective option- that is, if super pack buyers got the set at a discount compared to the store price.
Which, as you can see from this thread, would do little to mollify the protesters.
So, you would support a high-price-point separate purchase system?
Ok, thanks.Quote:Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Initially no- I bought a couple out of curiosity to see what they were.
But the costume bits did inspire me to purchase the discounted 25 count bundle of Superpacks.
So, you wouldn't support a high-price-point separate purchase system?Quote:Originally Posted by Nethergoat
It's a fun way to collect a prize that interests you.
If you're asking "would opening super packs which contained a random selection of undesirable junk appeal to you", the answer is no.
The mechanism derives the entirety of its appeal from the rewards it offers.
If they are going to have super packs and expect people to buy them, it MUST have an exclusive prize that players A: strongly desire and B: can't get anywhere else.
Theoretically, that item can be anything.
But given the historic predispositions of this game community, I can't imagine anything more effective in the role than costume sets. -
Quote:Ok, gotcha, thank you for the feedback.Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
It would depend on the price point. I would expect them to cost more than the current costume pieces. At least 1000 points for the set. If they were released at the same price point as regular costumes then I'd probably be a bit annoyed.
So, in your opinion, there's at least a 600-point disparity between this costume set and other costume set bundles because of the SuperPack inclusion.Quote:Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
It depends a lot on the price point. I can accept paying a premium to get it early but if the premium is to high then I'll wait (for what it's worth I tend to use the price of a 24-pack of super packs as my price point for the costume set so I'm comparing the costume only price to the 1440 points price for a 24-pack).
Do you think Paragon has been vastly underpricing their Costume Set Bundles if they're actually worth 1000 to 1400 points, or is this set in specific worth that much? -
Quote:Alrighty then - do you agree with him?Originally Posted by Nethergoat
he's saying if they offered junk previously available exclusively via super pack for direct purchase, he'd never buy another super pack.
A reaction I'd say would be epidemic among players who picked up bundles of packs to get the costume set.
Is the only thing tempting you to buy SuperPacks the exclusivity of costume pieces?
You're indifferent to the SuperPack mechanic itself? -
Quote:So - and I want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding you - you aren't interested in the SuperPack mechanism per se, just what's in the packs. You'd be just as happy with the merchandise if it was offered as a bundle or as a SuperPack, yes?Originally Posted by Venture
Would I be unhappy about it? No, but....
...it would mean I wouldn't touch the next set with someone else's hand. -
It has been bandied about a goodly bit that a reason to not release the EO Costume parts separately is the bad will it would generate with the people who have already bought Super Packs in the hopes of getting the EO Costume.
Oddly enough, most of the posts I have seen raising this point have been assuming that "some people" or "those people" will be the ones upset.
May I ask, directly: if you bought the Super Packs, would you be unhappy about the EO pieces being released as a bundle at some point?
Would you feel slighted or cheated in any way?
Would you feel your expense - of whatever sort - was a waste?
As a corollary, would you be less enthusiastic about buying the next round of Super Packs if you knew the costume set would not remain exclusive to it forever? -
I think we should get the Golden Girl TF where we free the Cimerorans from the rule of Imperious. (J/K!)
In all seriousness, I'd love to have some of the Black Knight bits (the armor, the staff weapon model, and especially their archery effects!) become available.
And (more long-term) wouldn't a new AT based off of the Animus Arcana be a nifty idea? That would be a sort of neat way to allow for an even greater degree of 'mix-and-match' powersets. I dunno, just a thought. -
As I said in another discussion thread, I saw a lot more fails of the ITF when it first came out. Can we all now agree that it was too complex and pretty much impossible for a PuG to do successfully?
I had to run about a dozen Reactor Respec Trials before I got on a winning team. Clearly impossible, can we all agree?
Or can we learn from things that have gone before, and avoid the whole "It's too hard/PuG's can't do it!" maybe just this one time?
Today's bloody impossible is tomorrow's routine run, and next week's half-watching the screen. The Magi Trial does not require anything like an optimized League to succeed. It does, however, require a minimum of direction-following capability on the part of the players involved. Some people find that fun, some find it uninspiring, and some find it impossible. That the latter exists isn't really the fault of the Dev Team.
(cue "But This Time It's Different!" arguments that are, ironically, never different...) -
I dunno, the mechanics of the Magesterium Trial just don't seem all that complex to me, even the final fight: if something looks like a big lightning strike, don't stand there. If something looks like a pool of light, stand there briefly and click a power. Otherwise, blast the big boy.
Of course, simple doesn't necessarily make it easy. Marcus 'It's got to be as big as I am tall' Cole hits quite hard indeed and regens at a fairly ferocious rate. Still, I saw a lot more struggling with the ITF initially then I am with this. -
Worth every penny I paid for it!
*raises glass*
Here's to more Free Stuff, even small Free Stuff! -
Peter O'Toole in Caligula.
Iggy Pop in The Adventures of Pete & Pete.
Tim Curry in Annie.
Yup. -
The (I believe Image) comic character Troll had a run-in with three (ex-)Leprechauns in a half-episode entitled "A Wee Donnybrooke" (sp?). They were Angus the Archer, Brendan the Blade, and Cormac the Cannon, if I recall correctly.
I suppose I could go look it up if it's actually important. *grin* -
Quote:And my point is that you might consider the cost unreasonable, others don't.Originally Posted by HwaRang
Respectfully, you missed the entire point of my posts. They have nothing to do with your last sentence. My posts have been very clear. In fact, 2nd post has summarized my position.
Please don't overreach in analysis, just follow what I stated. Here is your snip of what I said:
"The Panther travel power is mostly aesthetic and has very limited utility in game across all current and future characters. So you must pay roughly 2/3 of a Powerset that is for future character play in which this powerset's utility value greatly exceeds a "vanity" travel?
Given the amount of points one must spend on a "vanity" travel power for 650 points whereas a Powerset is 800 points--the overall cost comparison is still justifiable?
Realistically, there's a huge discrepancy in what you are paying for and what you are getting. This was my point. "
If you don't want a given powerset (in the way I don't want Beam Rifle), then its utility value is zero, for you.
If you do want a vanity travel power, its utility value is whatever you are willing to pay for it. That might be as much as, or more than, any given powerset. If I have a Claws Scrapper with the background of a were-panther, the travel power will have vastly greater value to me than Beam Rifle. If I am a member of a themed SG involving a pack of Claws Scrapper were-panthers...
My point is that this is not an objective issue, it's subjective. You're entitled to your opinion on it, of course, but to insist that your subjective opinion is the only realistic conclusion seems deeply arrogant.
And I say that when - let me reiterate - I personally consider the Panther Travel Power not worth buying myself. -
Next up: Swan travel power. Rating jumps to MA.
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Quote:Well, this is highly subjective, of course.Originally Posted by HwaRang
(snip)
The Panther travel power is mostly aesthetic and has very limited utility in game across all current and future characters. So you must pay roughly 2/3 of a Powerset that is for future character play in which this powerset's utility value greatly exceeds a "vanity" travel?
Given the amount of points one must spend on a "vanity" travel power for 650 points whereas a Powerset is 800 points--the overall cost comparison is still justifiable?
Realistically, there's a huge discrepancy in what you are paying for and what you are getting. This was my point.
Was never an issue of current versus future "abilities".
Unusually for it's MMORPG generation, individual character aesthetics are very important to CoH development. Judging by the responses in this thread, there are more than a few people happily willing to pay the price for this ability, even given that it is primarily aesthetic in nature.
Speaking for myself, I'm not interested in the power and won't be buying it. My spouse, on the other hand, has a South-American Jaguar-Goddess character, so it's a mortal lock for her.
If you're saying the abilitiy isn't worth it for you, that's fine - personally, I agree.
However, you appear to be saying that it's not worth it for other people and that's apparently just not true. -
Quote:To paraphrase Han Solo, "I dunno, I got a pretty good imagination."
You are like an impetuous child! Let me be more direct then! I will not allow any further ascensions while I have a say in the matter. And, should you attempt to do so before I permit it, our paths will cross one final time. When that day comes, you will submit to my judgement or I will bring a force to bear upon you unlike any you have ever imagined.
It's interesting - rather a number of NPC's have told us, at various times, "Do/Don't do this or you'll have to deal with me!". It seems like a pretty decent number of them have been... dealt with.
Might not be the best kind of threat to make, is all I'm saying. -
Quote:Might help explain why the Ritki seem so negative on 'Birth Bodies'...Originally Posted by Mallerick
If that's what Rikti females are actually using for IUDs, I don't think I ever want to meet a Rikti female - even on an Incarnate trial with 24 other +3 Incarnates.
... just sayin'. -
Quote:This is interesting.Originally Posted by Mazey
Except people aren't robots who follow simple logical rules.
There are many many people who enjoy obtaining things randomly but, if presented with both the random way and a deterministic way, feel obliged to take the deterministic way out of principle, even though it ultimately results in less enjoyment for them.
To apply this to the super packs, there are people who enjoyed getting the costume set randomly, but would have bought it as a pack on its own if it was available that way and, then, because the super packs no longer contained the costume they wanted, wouldn't have bought as many, or possibly none at all, even though they might well have still enjoyed them.
Those people would have then both spent less points and had less fun. A lose-lose situation for NCSoft and the customer.
I'm not certain I'd presume a large number of people would do this - although I certainly would think some would.
The question is if they would have made enough of a difference to make the Packs by themselves less successful than the Packs plus separate sales. With the baseline established for exclusive content, I wonder if we'll ever know.
Anyway, I'm clearly being boring on this topic, so I apologize and I'll shut up now.
Sorry for the derail. -
Quote:And a good way of determining this would have been to have done just that.Originally Posted by Bosstone
In fact, synergy is a very real possibility. Had Super Packs had nothing exclusive, they might have only sold 200,000 packs and 200,000 EO sets.
I can't say how probable this would have been, only that it's a possibility.
Had that happened, none of us - including the Devs - would be wondering. We'd know.
Now, if you want to make the argument that that knowledge is less valuable to the Dev team than the extra sales (if any) they made by offering Super Pack exclusive stuff instead of pack with separate purchase, then I'm all ears.
But I don't think that's a slam dunk case. -
Quote:Except that they weren't the same Costume Set, with the same appeal.Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
Its apples to apples because you're comparing straight-up costume sets to costume sets plus. The straight-up costume sets get you the baseline.
And if Paragon based any of their sales decisions on the basis of 100% customer satisfaction or bust, then there wouldn't be a Paragon Studios.
Some players didn't like the Super Packs. Some players loathed them. They still sold 600,000 of them.
Comparing the same costume set to the same costume set plus would have given a very good baseline for the popularity of plus, right?
Better than costume set 1 vs. costume set 2 vs. costume set 3, plus, yes?