T_Immortalus

I'm pretty sure it's "an oversight" in a previous change they made when they adjusted the untouchable application time for resurrect powers.
All of them are supposed to give you time to play the animation of the power, being unable to do anything while it animates, and then have just enough time to try something to avoid dying when untouchable wears off. Rise of the Phoenix especially needs that because it is definitely intended to be used with enemies in close proximity.


Honestly, I think the delay on the untouchable application was possibly there, originally, to allow the damage portion of the power to hit enemies before the player is made untouchable and thus unable to affect the enemies in order to damage them(as per how phase was explained to me in a thread about the new Dimension Shift and my idea to use it to be invulnerable while damaging enemies).
They obviously found a way around that, but must have missed changing the pool version of Rise of the Phoenix when they changed power sets.

I'm not surprised that they missed it, considering that resurrect powers are not that popular when players would rather not be in a situation to use them. Even if they do take them, they very rarely need to use them and thus find out something is wrong.

Yep, they don't seem to change any message unless they absolutely have to.

An example of this is the "standard downtime listing" which says Thursady even though the standard downtime day has been Tuesday for at least a year, especially since Freedom launched and updates the market and WST every Tuesday.
Thursdays are now relegated to "if it needs it" downtime, such as for patches.

Believe me, I am usually up at that time in the morning. I rarely ever worry about downtime on Thursday, but Tuesday is almost guaranteed to have downtime at 6am CT.
Just ask anybody who is usually on at that time of day.



Or, wait until this Thursday and then next week on Tuesday and watch what happens the week after that as well. I bet Tuesday is their main downtime day now, just like I have known for a long long time.

HEY!
Look at both the power set version and the pool version!

They're identical, aside from that 0.25 second delay.

THEY BOTH HAVE UNTOUCHABLE!

So what is the point of the untouchable period if it does not have the opportunity to activate in one version of identical powers?




If they really wanted you to be able to die within a 0.25 second window then the power would not be a resurrect at all. It would instead be a self-targeted Fallout(the power that turns a corpse into a weapon) that does not resurrect or heal or anything the resurrect power really does.


You say "the devs want the delay" but the devs were the ones that added untouchable to the powers to make sure you had time to try to live rather than dying during an animation that you can't break out of.
The developers obviously do not share your opinion due to the fact that both powers use "untouchable".

The argument is over. Everybody else has realized that a resurrect is supposed to give you a chance to live. That is why this was started as a bug thread in the other forums and a question here; people obviously don't see any sense to having a resurrect that fails at the job it is intended to perform.

Any proof they said so?

Also, Hopeling, or somebody else in the other thread discussing this, looked them both up. They are IDENTICAL except for that 0.25 second delay.

Also....
1) 0.25 seconds is not enough time to make one power "inferior" unless 0.25 seconds just completely screws the power, which would be a problem.
2) Common sense says that "if they want you to be untouchable then they want you to be untouchable". They don't want the person using the power to die instantly while they are still stuck in an animation that can't be stopped and while nothing else can be activated.


You're ignoring common sense and I will not continue to argue with you.
That delay is not supposed to be there because it completely breaks the power, ruining its intended purpose.

If it was really meant to guarantee that you had 0.25 seconds to die then it would not be a resurrect. It would be like as self targeted Fallout instead, damaging enemies without trying to bring you back to life.


You're either blindly saying "the devs never make mistakes" or you really don't know how resurrects are supposed to be used, especially ones that damage enemies in a small radius meaning they are supposed to be used in combat after you die to come back and fight.

Are you going to see reason or continue arguing against the design of the power?

I LOL'd.

"Everything's bigger in CoH"

Ouroboros, minus the first 3 Praetorian zones up to level 20.

Very good question.

I don't think I ever encountered a weapon customization recipe, even when I once had IO access, to have any idea how that works.
I imagine the recipe does not check whether you can use it or not before it drops, otherwise I wouldn't have received confuse purples on a brute.

99% sure that it will drop on any character.

Don't let it put you off sticking around.
It's partially a good thing that there isn't so much to do but make alts, rerun stories and goof off.

It's just fun playing with super powers, especially ones like flight and super speed. The costume options can't be beat by any game I know of either.
It's also fun to just team for whatever and "BRUTE SMASH!". LOL

Most games out there are just a thinly veiled grind. The best ones give you options besides the grind, like goofing off. You still can pvp as well, even though it isn't the best out there.

Honestly, this game is pretty good when you boil every game down to its core.

True, but Sappers are first to die in any fight due to "you can't attack without endurance" for everyone, even those without toggles.
They're still a problem with that ability.

And are we sure the developers are really happy with what Sappers do to toggle-dependent archetypes?
They don't really like mezzers detoggling them every 4-8 seconds, but they're happy with Sappers doing so i about the same time, especially when it is pretty much the only ability Sappers have?


I agree with Arcanaville. Powers should always be a choice. The more difficult it is to choose which power to "not take" in a set, the more fun the set probably is, rather than just being obligated to take the biggest effect powers and ditch the ones that seem too small. That is one of the difficult things about a Gravity/Time controller; everything looks so good.


They're just ideas to try to improve the game anyway. I know the enhancements idea and Fitness pool idea are really good though, and they should be done.




Edit:
After all, they made the blaster two lowest tier attacks usable while mezzed(and maybe usable without endurance? or while stunned from that?), which they are dependent on, so it would make sense if they made the toggle-dependent archetypes a bit easier by making the toggles "always on" and less of a pain. They already keep them on while mezzed, but endurance drain is also an issue.
And, how good is a tanker without toggles? I bet a tanker is about as good as a defender without most of its support primary if you take away the toggles. So, it would be a good idea to keep the tanker buffed so that he isn't that weak.

First, Diabolique and the door were put there first. It's not intended that you should get sent to Night Ward, and where you get put could be betetr than such a long way away from a way back.

Second, the "weaknesses in the veil" are in the same places as they are in First Ward. They're the shadowed/lighted paths along the northern area of the zone. If you know where they are in First Ward then you can find them in Night Ward.


Edit:
It helps if you try not to face the door while talking to her, like from off to her side so that the door isn't taking up the whole area behind her.

You have three options, and the first 2 of those stick you right back at square one eventually:
1) Start a new character.
2) Grind to maximize your build.
3) Just goof off and/or role-play.

LOL
I'll admit to that. I'm just throwing out ideas.

But, I don't think the developers' trouble is "figuring out and implementing things" but probably more "coming up with ideas for things to figure out how to do".
I'm sparking imaginations, I hope.

1) Mystic Fortune and Secondary Mutation are not toggles or autos or short duration. They are clicks with a buff that lasts 20 minutes. My idea for consolidating the crazy amount of toggles into something less resource intensive would not apply to them.
None of the other things you mentioned would be affected by this change.

2) If anything would be broken then it would be short duration toggles like the Good Vs Evil Edition Jump Pack, which is currently "broken" in that it refreshes upon entering a loading screen while it is active so that it will last almost twice as long as intended while the recharge does not get extended.
Things already reapply when going through loading screens as the bugs with mastermind pets being resummoned and getting stuck proves as well as the old bug where all your toggles can turn off when you go through a load screen.

Either they already implemented my idea or the bug is already there and may even be made less of a problem by my idea.


(Edit 2: I don't know about the scaling resists of SR, and Widows who share that, but I think they would work alright. First, we could always leave those powers updating as they currently do since they are not completely static like other toggles/autos. Second, does it really update every 10 seconds, or whatever, like other auto powers or is there some other mechanic that makes it update even faster directly with the user health total? Third, there could be another way of handling those powers. One possibility is taking advantage of an effect like "Accelerated/Delayed" that Time Manipulation has such that the scaling resistances could be collected in one "update checking" power that will have each of those be activated by having heir respective auto power in the build. That would condense several powers being tracked across the internet connection into a single one.)




I'm just talking about simplifying, and them making more efficient, all these "self only, always on" powers into something that is truly 'always on", auto powers.

And of course, certain auto powers would improve performance by being baked into stats at the basic level rather than being powers that have to be updated and can be turned off by the "Walk" power, such as the entire Fitness inherent pool.

Seriously, why didn't they just bake all the fitness numbers into the base stats rather than having them be tracked constantly, causing even only a little extra load(which ends up adding up over all the powers in the game, "every little bit counts")?
1) Their justification for making it inherent was "everybody already takes it".
2) It's obviously not a problem just giving it to us at level 2, so why not level 1 baked in?
3) As soon as they made it inherent and freed up more power choices, the first thing begged for was "more enhancement slots" because they still always slotted Stamina and often Health as well. They could just bake in enhanced values.

I also think it would make us feel more "super", which this game sorely needs especially at low levels, because we could jump higher and farther and run faster and fly faster and "suck less wind" due to endurance issues early on if they just baked in SO enhancements levels.

Oh yeah, there is another idea.
How much do TOs suck? Do DOs solve the issue with the very few slots you have at level 12?
How about they just get rid of DOs and TOs and stick with SOs, or maybe even just roll them all into a type called "Basic Enhancements" that replace all regular original enhancements with ones that have no origin and boost to SO levels(which would not be unbalanced because you don't have much slots until the level we normally get SOs).
They could just delete DOs and SOs, change "Training Origin" to "Basic Enhancement" and it would work exactly as I have proposed.
That would also remove the need for that depreciating to-hit buff we have below level 20 as well because people could actually slot worthwhile accuracy enhancements.

If origins really don't matter then why do we even have enhancements with the old origins? It just makes it tougher to find drops you can actually use if your origin isn't the same as the enemy groups you are fighting. So, you end up just selling everything to the vendor and buying what you need with a lot less INF than you need because they only buy for a fraction of what they sell at.



These are all just the "tip of my tongue" ideas I just thought of, including the way to implement some within the existing system.
I bet the enhancements change and the Fitness pool change would do a rather noticeable job of improving performance and happiness of players as well.


Edit:
FYI, I don't even touch TOs anymore. I only use DOs because they are actually "noticeably" good enough to "get by".
I really would love to have SOs available at level 5, or lower, especially considering that certain numbers, like endurance usage and accuracy and recharge don't scale(you'll need as much of that at level 1 as level 50, actually more because you have fewer slots to try to squeeze "adequate" performance out of).

I don't see the harm in the suggestions put forth.
And actually, making TOs as powerful as SOs, in my idea, would do more to "train players" to slot enhancements than "Training Origins" ever did because they would have a noticeable effect that players could see and think "wow, enhancements are worthwhile" and "it seems this type is worth more than this other type, to me" rather than "enhancements suck, none of these TOs seem to do anything with my single slot".

I saw that after my post.


Edit to respond to below:
I was lazy, sue me.

1) LOL@ "$Texas"
2) That sucks. It's too bad the vendors don't sell it as a character item that would go to email to be claimed on whatever character you want, if that is so. That should be how it works so that people can enjoy alts more and have reason to level those alts and grind more and pay to play the game more and/or pay for more stuff int he market and generally stick around.

Seriously, strangely pointless limits like that really do not help a game.

Is it not available from alignment merit vendors or the normal merit vendors?
I think it should be, if not.

Edit:
Or at least, it should be available from the incarnate merit vendors in Ouroboros.

Huh?!?

You lost me.
The purple triangles on certain AVs/EBs/whatever are there to prevent mezzes. That's so that a couple controllers or dominators can't make every enemy in the game completely trivial.
I don't think taunt was even a consideration.

That was my point. Ironblade said that delay was intentional.

The difference between the two powers is, in my opinion at least, so negligible that it must be a mistake, especially since it can make the power with the delay fail under certain conditions which are all too easily replicated.



So, I'm not making a suggestion that it be changed just because "we want it to work the same".
It's a bug that belongs in the bug forum and reported to be fixed.

Those powers are effectively identical. They need to work identically. The fact that they don't, and that the "untouchable"effect that should keep a player alive is failing under predictable circumstances, means this is a mistake and bug that needs correcting.




Also, was it not said that the resurrect powers once all had a delay before the untouchable that was then removed? That would mean that the pool version was "missed" in that round of fixes.

Well, it would likely save graphical load if the self-only toggles weren't all generating separate particle effects(maybe one effect for all of them which is applied if the character owns any of the powers that could apply it, or just relegate the graphics to the ones that affect enemies and could stay toggles and need to be known in PVP and possibly PVE) in addition to your point that it would save endurance cost information.
They could also reduce the need for them to update as often because auto powers are always on, and only affect self in every case I know of, such that they would only need to be applied when they turn on(after deactivating walk or coming out of a load screen) and their status could just be a permanent part of the character data stored for future reference on each client, requiring no information across the net for the power so long as the character's build has not changed since the data was collected.(I've really thought this through.)



I agree that changes tend to mess things up, but we're already at that point. This game has collected too many powers and information with all the incarnate powers, especially those with the 255 target limits and AoEs with 32-40 target limits.
I think it's time to go the other way a little and reduce the amount of stuff.

Consider all the powers we have that use identical animations and nearly identical particle effects. How could the be more efficient?
Could it not be possible to use the knowledge gained from dual pistols to pretty much combine Broadsword and Axe into one power set with a "free toggle", like the swap ammo powers, to change the secondary effects which are almost the only difference between Axe and Broadsword? Parry could probably be handled similarly, only having access to it when you choose the proper "free toggle". Could War Mace even be merged into one set with them?
Or, maybe they could just stuff all those powers into one set with mandatory and limiting choices like Arachnos Soldiers get, where they only get the crab spider backpack if they choose that tree, to limit their weapon costume selection and their powers to that set. IDK (Edit: Actually, they wouldn't need to limit the weapon selection if they all use the same animations. Secondary effects would be the only thing that would change.)


There have to be ideas, and we sure are not getting a better performing game over the years with less "effects overload".
I don't see why we need "obsolete" and "unwieldy" chunks of the game left in when they can remove parts that are mostly not in use or can be done better.




Why does updating a game, or any program, have to always be about "add more add more add more" when it could be about "make existing things better and remove bad things" and we would be just as happy?
Oh right, they switched to F2P so they need to do nothing but "add more", if they can get away with not working on existing stuff, to sell in the market for more money.
(I wish that were a complete joke. )

I'm guessing that the way the "Painted One" ghouls' "make you taunt" power works is by applying a single target taunt power to you that targets the closest 16 enemies in range, or is applied from them onto you 16 times to ricochet to the taunted targets(akin to Jolting Chain), and that shows stacks as it is a sort of "debuff" or because the developers want you to know when you are taunting the enemies around you(other than the resultant aggro).
I surmise it stacks beyond 16 when you have more than one "Painted One" ghoul use it on you. That is potentially a lot of information spam that could cause a network traffic jam, but it is relatively ok so long as it doesn't somehow allow you to exceed the aggro cap(if all 33 taunts counted).

You missed a "/" before your latter "quote".