Syntax42
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Without Hasten, you won't be running the top DPS chain. Trust me. It makes a big difference when you run a good chain on a AV fight when the rest of your team is composed of low-DPS characters. Hasten's endurance cost is minimal if you factor in the duration. Even with the high endurance cost of the attack chain, you can still pop blue inspirations every 15-30 seconds or so to keep fighting. There is also a good chance your team will have some sort of recovery buff. Empathy and Radiation are popular sets. Don't avoid your best DPS potential just because you can't do it solo for an extended period of time. Your job on teams is to do damage, and the better you do it, the smoother the team will get through content.Originally Posted by Dr_Occult
I'm really thinking of dropping Haste completely since I hardly seem to use it. I"m also thinking of dropping Focus Chi down to two slots (1 to-hit and 1 rech) and using the two slots freed up to put endredux in toggles to try and tame the end burn beast.
Focus Chi does not need to-hit enhancements. I can't think of any situations where bypassing defense is a major issue and enhancing a build-up buff will make the difference. Just leave it with 1-3 recharges, depending on available slots. -
You can back the defense down to 32.5% and not lose much survivability. You need a small inspiration to soft cap either way. The slots you spent on going past 32.5% could be used to improve global recharge instead.
The main reason Breath of Fire is not popular is that it is the lowest damage per animation time (DPA) attack you have, and it requires you to move out of a group of enemies to make decent use of it. The time you spend moving out of a group is time you could have been doing other attacks.
You have poor accuracy (around 75% for most attacks) against +4s with this build.
Procs add a lot of DPS and shouldn't be neglected.
Four slots of a purple set is generally a waste of INF. The damage bonus is extremely small compared to other sources of damage bonus. The recharge bonus is why most people use purple sets. I'm referring to Fire Blast, in case you didn't see it.
Have you looked into attack chains? It seems like you're just going to be pressing buttons as they recharge instead of optimizing your DPS. You generally need close to perma-Hasten in order to run a good attack chain. You're missing a lot of LOTG 7.5% recharges if you want to optimize your build for DPS. -
Posting your goals and how you want people to respond to would help. If you're just bragging, or if you're looking for advice it would be nice to know. Also, use short forum export. The long forum export adds a bunch of wasted space to scroll past that I'm pretty sure nobody reads because all that information is in Mids' when we look at the build.
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If you go with Soul Mastery instead, you would have Gloom. I think I posted about it being as good as KO blow for DPS in your other thread. You would be able to get rid of Hurl Boulder, saving yourself some slots. You would still be able to take an equivalent targeted AoE attack and AoE immobilize to slot the purple sets in. Your slots saved could help you enhance Rise to the Challenge so you get some decent regeneration out of it.
I also noticed that you have more than 5 purple sets granting 10% recharge. Swap one of them out for a lesser recharge set.
The slots in your epic pet could be used for recharge time instead. Look at the pet recharge sets.
Do the math to make sure each power recharges fast enough to run Jab -> Gloom -> Haymaker -> KO Blow -> Gloom -> Haymaker. That attack chain is mostly important when fighting AVs. You would still have the same amount of AoEs for fighting normal groups, so I don't understand why you are giving up so much single-target damage and taking Mu instead.
The Gladiator's 3% defense IO is adding a lot of cost to your build and not much survivability. If you needed it to reach 32.5% or 45%, I would say keep it. However, you are nowhere near either mark, so it is not helping you soft cap defenses. -
Quote:As a mid-game build, he is low on slots and just needs Active Defense to be up all the time. Toward the end-game is when he should consider double-stacking it to achieve 95% defense debuff resistance.Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
I recommend a minimum of three recharge enhancements in Active Defense.
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Your job as a tank is to hold aggro so the team doesn't die, and stay alive long enough for the team to kill everything. Any damage you do is optional, unless you're solo farming. Dark Melee has a heal in the form of Siphon Life. That adds more survivability to any armor set when tanking AVs than any other melee set can. For regular groups, no power set really outshines the others that much. A taunt aura and an AoE attack are generally enough to keep enough critters distracted that your teammates won't get attacked too much.
If you want to do damage, don't pick Stone Armor. You will likely be spending almost all of your time in Granite Armor, which has some hefty penalties for its superior survivability. If you think you can play out of Granite most of the time, you should realize that you would be intentionally gimping your performance and there are better sets for playing without the penalties of Granite Armor.
I don't have my Granite Armor build templates on this computer. Search these forums for my posts in other Stone Armor threads and you might find my current build as well as an easy template that can be adapted to any melee set. -
You don't need as much accuracy as you have. You can check your chance to hit +4s by changing the base to-hit in Mids' to 39%. You probably won't need the Kismet and you won't need to turn on Focused Accuracy unless critters are debuffing to-hit or perception.
It is also better to ED-cap Focus Chi's recharge instead of slotting it the way you have it. The bonuses you are getting from 4 Gaussian's are insignificant.
Pounding Slugfest's stun proc probably isn't very useful. A damage proc would be better, I think.
Here is how I would modify your build. I got it closer to perma-Hasten without using more purple sets. I also made it possible to run SK -> CAK -> SK -> CS attack chain seamlessly while Hasten is up. That chain consumes ~4 end/s with the build below. With your defensive toggles running and only doing that chain, you will run out of endurance after about 1 minute of fighting and there isn't much that can be done about it other than popping inspirations. That number doesn't account for Performance Shifter procs or Practiced Brawler end cost, but the procs will definitely help.
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If I had the time, I would completely redo the build with more recovery bonuses in mind. I didn't realize MA's best attack chain was such an end hog. -
I think it is better to make a level 50 build and build your character towards it as you level up. Otherwise, you may end up with a power you don't use at 50. Your build looks fine, though. A Gaussian's set would be nice, but set bonuses are hard to get before 50.
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Don't worry about going over the rule of 5's on unimportant bonuses. Regeneration, HPs, and damage bonuses are small and make very little difference in your character's overall performance. The important thing is that you get enough defense and recharge, first. After that, work on regeneration and HPs.
Storm Kick is your best DPA attack. It should be given the "royal treatment" when slotting it. Put 5 Hecatombs in it, including the proc. Put another proc in the 6th slot if you have enough slots to spare. SK is used twice in your chain, so procs in it are more valuable there.
Cobra Strike has 5 Touch of Deaths in it. That set does not give worthwhile bonuses unless you need the defense from 6 ToDs. A recharge set would be better.
Agile is over-slotted. It only needs 2 defense IOs. Move its set to Evasion.
I would move Gaussian's to Focused Accuracy and put 2-3 recharge IOs in Focus Chi.
Psionic defense isn't really needed. Save yourself a slot by not going past 5 Scirocco's. -
True "leveling builds" are rare because standard enhancement slotting is common-sense and IO sets are not going to make enough of a difference (for most power sets) while leveling to be worth the respec at 50. If you need advice on how to slot specific powers, the forums are a good place to ask.
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Quote:I'm pretty sure procs make Smite your biggest DPA attack. That's why I use it first. It is only a small difference, though. Soul Drain might make MG higher DPA because damage bonuses don't affect procs, so I could be doing it wrong. I would have to check the math, but I don't have my DM/SD build on this computer.Originally Posted by Gaidin
MG>Smite>SL>Smite (Usually you want to lead off with MG so that you can cycle it the most within a Build-up/Soul Drain.)
MG -> SL -> Smite requires 455% recharge for Midnight Grasp. The base recharge time is 100% and Hasten adds 70%. You probably have about 110% or so global recharge from sets so you can obtain perma-Hasten. With the tier 4 Spiritual Alpha, you might have 130% recharge enhancing MG. That's a total of 410%, or a .35s gap in the chain. With a SB, it is quite possible to perform that chain gapless.
Gloom does more base DPA (unenhanced, no procs) than any of your other attacks. Its recharge would prevent you from using it more than once per chain though. The activation time is only slightly longer than Smite, so replacing a Smite in the chain would make it slightly easier to obtain the necessary recharge for MG. -
Quote:The build I posted was intended to be ran with a small defense inspiration during tough encounters. The inspiration lasts 1 minute and puts you at the soft cap. With 5-10 in a tray, you should be able to tank any encounter in the game long enough for your team to kill everything.Originally Posted by Crazy_Larry
It guess to make my question more specific:
Which is better: A) 35% defense to all positions, or B) Soft cap to smashing/lethal, 30 something% energy/neg and 20 something% to everything else?
A: 32.5% defense is the goal, not 35%. A small inspiration is 12.5% and that plus 32.5% equals 45%. Being soft capped to all positions will protect you against all attacks, except for a handful of weak psionic attacks that mostly do very little damage.
B: Soft capping to S/L is good, but energy is almost as common, especially in new incarnate content. A better option would be to go for 32.5% S/L and E/N. That would leave more slots for global recharge while still putting you in range of soft capping the most important damage types with 1 inspiration. Global recharge is valuable for both DPS and recharging your heals faster.
Dark Melee's build-up power is the best in the game. As mentioned before, it has the best single-target attack chain, but you probably won't have the recharge to run it without sacrificing defense. Still, Dark Melee would likely be higher DPS than Super Strength. Epic/Ancillary pool powers, your damage aura, and your teammates can take care of AoEing the minions. -
The biggest problem I see right away is that you don't have Hasten. Without it, you won't be able to use your high DPA (damage per activation time) attacks. The key to doing high damage on any character is NOT damage bonuses. Instead, it is recharge bonuses so you can use your best attacks more often. The other advantage of high global recharge would be the ability to double-stack Rage all the time. At a whopping 80% damage bonus per application of Rage, it makes your 22% bonus from sets pathetic. Read my post above again to see why set damage bonuses have minimal impact on a build.
KO Blow is your best attack in terms of DPA. Gloom from Soul Mastery is equal DPA to KO Blow. Those are the two essential attacks you should have if you want to make a DPS chain.
I'm pretty sure the best attack chain for a SS/WP Tanker would be Jab -> Gloom -> Haymaker -> KO Blow -> Gloom -> Haymaker (can replace Haymaker with AoEs if desired). Your 22% damage bonus and low global recharge would pale in comparison to someone running that attack chain with double-stacked Rage, even with minimal or no damage bonus from sets. If you can't understand why attack chains are much better than obtaining damage bonus from sets, try asking in the Scrapper forums. Maybe someone there can show you some math.
Doing that attack chain would require a lot of recharge bonus in both Gloom and KO Blow. You can calculate the required recharge times for each power by dividing the base recharge by the total shortest Arcanatime animation times between uses of a power. For example, Gloom gets used twice, but the shortest recharge time required is while Haymaker and Jab are animating. Remember that a power does not start recharging until it is finished animating. The Arcanatime (Mids' can be set to display this in the options) for Haymaker is 1.716 seconds and Jab's is 1.32 seconds. So, Gloom's base recharge (12s) divided by the shortest total Arcanatime animation time between uses (3.036s) is 395.3% required recharge. Every power has a base of 100% recharge and can be enhanced by 95% or so with enhancements. That leaves 195% global recharge to obtain through set bonuses and Hasten.
Your "missing" level 50 slot is in Ball Lightning. Turn on slot levels to see it. -
Ranged energy damage is fairly common in incarnate content so far, and it looks like Praetorian Clockwork will continue to be a major part of incarnate trials. It is better to be protected against the second most common damage type with both defense and resistance than to only be protected against S/L.
If you aim for 32.5% defense, that puts you within 1 small inspiration of the soft cap. You can do that with S/L and E/N if you want to save a few slots for other bonuses, but you wouldn't be protected against the rarer damage types: F/C and psionic.
Charged Armor is underslotted in your posted build. The closer you get to the resistance cap, the more effective each additional point of resistance becomes. You could get to 90% S/L resistance (or very close) with careful slotting and the tier 4 Cardiac.
If you haven't made the character yet, Dark Melee would increase your survivability for team tanking AVs more than the other melee sets. Here is the build I came up with.
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Most defense debuffs are a 7.5% value. With 95% defense debuff resistance, you will be debuffed 0.375%. I wouldn't even bother with a buffer unless you end up with extra slots. You will likely go over slightly anyways and 1% would be enough to absorb almost 3 debuffs. You can always pop an inspiration if things get bad enough. The most enemies you could have auto-hitting you at once is 17, so you would be debuffed by a maximum of 6.375% in the worst, unluckiest situation.
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Quote:Those Scrappers probably had low-end builds or didn't optimize for damage. Given equal budgets, a Scrapper build will out-DPS a Tanker build with minimal effort if it is focused on DPS. The differences lie in how much effort a Scrapper has to spend to achieve the same level of survivability as the Tanker. Some Scrapper power sets require giving up a lot of DPS to come close to Tanker survivability.Originally Posted by MrLiberty
Actually, yes you can. Looking at the Rikti Pylon thread, there were 50 some scrappers who posted with DPS lower than my Fire/SS tank. (Who isn't built for ST DPS) So its very possible to out DPS certain sets.
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Mids' can display base damage per animation time if you go to powerset comparison. Take the fewest single-target attacks you need to form an attack chain and add some AoEs. Some attack chains may have AoEs in them.
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It depends on what you want to farm. You could have a character for AE (Architect Entertainment) ticket farming only, or you could have a character that is good for killing anything and be survivable enough to team. Either way, defense from set bonuses and pool powers is the best way to make your character useful again.
For ticket farming, you would only need fire defense. You can set up your critters to only do fire damage, then you can take advantage of your high resistances.
For team play and generic farming, there are two ways to do it. You can either focus on S/L and E/N defense, or melee + ranged + AoE defense. The first option would give you less protection but more flexible slotting while the second is less flexible but protected against everything. It is fairly easy to reach 32.5% defense then depend on small inspirations to reach the soft cap (45%) for the tougher fights. Reaching 45% defense requires sacrificing defense in other categories and leaving yourself "weak" against certain damage types.
I don't have my builds on this PC or I would post one. If you search these forums, you might find my posts in other Spines/Fire threads. I have posted my current build with 32.5% melee + ranged + AoE defense and a build with just S/L and E/N. -
Quote:That's what I meant. I made a typo by putting Cobra Strike in my post twice.Originally Posted by Dr_Occult
EDIT: Isn't the chain SK -> CAK -> SK -> CS?
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The rule of 5's for set bonuses is important to remember. You can't have more than 5 of the same bonus.
I think you have made many threads about this and you are trying too hard to find something that doesn't exist. If you want to do damage, aim for 32.5% defenses and put the rest of your set bonuses into recharge. If you can reach perma-Hasten (or close to it), you will have enough recharge to run a decent attack chain, but you will NEVER out-DPS Scrappers or Brutes. The base values on Tankers' attacks are lower because Tankers have higher base survivability values.
Edit: I just read your post in your other thread.
Chasing damage bonuses from sets is futile effort. You can gain 3-4% here and there, but it will not make a noticeable difference because of the attack mechanics. Damage bonuses add to each other, and your enhancement values.
Let's say you have an attack enhanced to 95% damage bonus and have Rage double-stacked for 160% more damage bonus. Your 100 damage attack now does 355 damage.
Now let's say you add 30% damage bonus from sets. That is a lot to get and would severely impact your survivability. Your 100 damage attack would then do 385 damage, or 7.8% more damage.
If you really want to do damage with a Tanker just get a Kinetics person to keep you buffed. You can try for your build but I think you would get more satisfaction from making a Scrapper survivable than making a Tanker do DPS. -
I have a Cold/Sonic and AV's just melt insanely fast. Being able to debuff 100%-150% resistance is very overpowering. Your team will do plenty of damage. You shouldn't worry about how much damage you do. Also, defense debuffs are almost worthless. Tons of power sets (not just Defenders) have them, so chances are someone else on your team can debuff defenses. It is incredibly easy to get 95% chance to hit everything when you play on a team. When soloing, accuracy enhancements and set bonuses should be more than enough to hit even-level critters once you get to SO's.
Here is my build:
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The chain is Smite -> Midnight Grasp -> Smite -> Siphon Life. You can calculate the recharge required for each power. Divide the base recharge of a power by the shortest total Arcanatime animation times between uses and subtract 1 for the base recharge speed. That means Smite needs to recharge in 2.112 seconds because Siphon Life animates faster than Midnight Grasp and Smite doesn't start recharging until it is finished animating.
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I would highly suggest taking Weave. You already have Tough, so it isn't hard to fit Weave in the build. In addition, you wouldn't have to use as many slots for defense and you could have a lot more global recharge. More global recharge means you can run a better attack chain for more DPS. DPS is your main contribution to the team and doing more of it makes you a better Scrapper as long as you can stay alive to do it.
You probably don't need as many attacks as you took. I haven't done full DPS calculations for all combinations of MA attack chains, but it looks like the best chain is Storm Kick -> Cobra Strike -> Storm Kick -> Cobra Strike. That means you can skip Eagle's Claw and Crane Kick.
Here is a Super Reflexes template which should help you hit the soft cap more efficiently. Add Hasten and slot your powers for global recharge. Change the powers around as much as you need as long as you keep the set bonuses somewhere in the build.
Code:Long forum export takes up an excessive amount of space on pages and doesn't provide any information we can't see in Mids'. The data chunk and link are the only really important parts of the post. Short forum export shows enough for people to copy your build without Mids' if they really want.| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1031;511;1022;HEX;| |78DA6592DB6ED34010867713A721696862D2242D3DA1560809844505F7082848850| |6425321D1422DE36EE2A5966DD9A6C45CF10C5CC00B002D0FC7E10DCC7866630E5E| |C9FABCFFFCBBFEC79AFE64ABC1D8FBDB8CCFDD73AD2832877668058108EB7BC2763| |CDFF5C709AB32C656A605B32F5C218C47D213B1B4CD3B716CD9C76B79754B8C8417| |0963F826DBED8A912B2622D2B73D4784C28B8DE9CBF981EFBBC603397662E98D1BB| |8DB1156001B1D37DBDE898CE42BE9CA38694ECB47228C1C19E8F703691B77FDA3C4| |EC5B512CC26401225E86E7B9CED44A2B6C04D864F531C141342462EE35E118D1CF3| |AE478AAC43A3C934A2D421BF1180C5C1938193432686478028632197879152F9D21| |EC43A28A4A54D9075C61AD03C48517849788F9438289E0705F954EB16A0A8B0D605| |BA32FB0DA35BCBA0BD2ACFAE82CA56ACC23B213E953283755B949615A8432547475| |97DE839715B60B525B49EDEBE8D240EAA8A63B747D979AEE52D387D05A8F426ABD1| |33CB3F09630415C4C08EF1007605F547F62F173299356BF10BE124E1197CE08DF10| |4348B1A4BA58A2F8CB84345F7BE0595749D729E90625DD68F37FADFFAD652D9F178| |62EB6A6E5B3905E2D546F1494CD8272B3A0DC2A283B0565A0A9CF82C251A9B560A6| |4849BFD7F30154D59F7F14CE9F6197330F79363B3F0ADE5FF5BFC6F713FED6731F0| |81F11BF01F301E280| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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I just did a quick DPS calculation for a SS/WP brute doing: KO blow -> Haymaker -> Foot Stomp -> Punch -> Haymaker. I think that is the best possible attach chain for SS, but I could be wrong. Rage was double-stacked and Fury was at 75%.
It came out to 200 DPS. That doesn't account for Rage crashes.
For comparison, DM/SD Scrappers have reported over 280 sustained DPS in the Rikti Pylon results thread
Edit: Just calculated for 100 Fury (not realistic because it can't be sustained) and it came out to 221 DPS.
Here is the simple Brute build I used:
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I don't have the time to calculate it right now, but I'm pretty sure my Electric/Dark build is tougher than an Invuln when I have a small defense inspiration active.
Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1411;693;1386;HEX;| |78DA6593594F135114C7EF74A1525ADA02A5ACB20985026327F26E5430C1D0A489E| |89BA9431DDA915AEACC60E4CD8FA0A0F10BB83EBB7D01F7F809DCFD002E4FC60519| |4FCFFF524866D2E9EFCCB9FF7BCEB9E7DE9BBB3C1B11E2CA61A1448E5574DB2E2CE| |AD515C30AE6F49259142121443F3C855963D9A8DA863A57318A8E65160B47AC0BAB| |564A8EE68C8A61A8B3BAB50233315F2D1B965175D41D239A5F5DADA8C7CD52D931A| |BA5087F2D187A8D3E12FC315FBD64DAE69259319DF5D8CEF039C3B2CB662D395733| |8BEA516BCD310AB9B5424EB71DC35AEFA2F226E87D1AA33F855EE1FAC50C199AF06| |5018D11981275FC6C16F2718362995DE9122353664C9BC07986B6C27846D115440F| |2A35760D5D648C588C0336E0006B8C5F94CB2F73F9FFFAB88A2D46D33FC6BE6DC06| |50CD5C59A7841B982C8A504517413F09246421811A11419FDE237A5C08A5CD19C61| |D52B52B5C84EB49CE4B5471681538CF824EB9E932E0A9D2F8A8EB5A263ADE8D81F0| |A1C93E5C710288E406D08D4865675A0551DE8E66B9A92904526A6D9A5D0196A9745| |B6BBF4083F7992B2C624727722772772F760C501D2A5648DA9248F74750071C849D| |02D9BD50D410F045B547D2F9F0837D87B8B1BDC771BB8C3D87F17B807DC67A442F5| |AE2261FF5B760DBEC3EEBC67444930202B1A40C241241C444509120C4BC13004231| |08C40B04D858DCAB68EA26763388163388163E8671A472F8D269FA5B3312E678D5F| |E54013D7800D609391B90EDC60E8346B12B302930F38D0D443E011F018A7FD09638| |9E4AA94AB1F7CF5561CFC087C023E33B42F8C37B4D559B9AF596C585FA071BDE857| |DFEA058F271F9037953C0A7B26028DCBEBE6C3F5BD847D668FADEFB197F6D8CDF1C| |62573BF861BD75446FEE6F17CDFF528CA0932D2227C9A9BF56377C4A7DCE4DD0E6F| |30B44D46D6B3948CC7A3793C331ECF218FE73FA9E7FCEE| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|