Smiling_Joe

I also disagree with only putting one slot in a PEACEBRINGER stamina in some circumstances. On a Warshade, you've got Stygian Circle up every time you swing a corpse, and inherent stamina wasn't even needed on my Warshade.

On a Peacebringer, you're fine with one slot so long as you spend most of your time in forms. If you spend any time at all in human form, however, an extra slot in stamina is never a bad thing. We're not THAT slot-starved.

I did the math earlier up in the thread. In case you missed it, giving Build Up to Nova form (for example) increased its dps from 101 dps to 104 dps.

It isn't enough to merit the work.

You will still have to be in dwarf mode to execute the heal, which means you'll still have to go through the three second form-shifting animation, which would still be interruptible. AND you'll have to keep your finger on the key until the heal fires.

Worse yet, because it does activate dwarf mode, all your other toggles that aren't compatible with dwarf mode will detoggle.

HOWEVER, once the heal fires, dwarf mode ends automatically when you let up on the key.

SO... if you think of it as a heal with a three second interruptible animation then the answer to your question is yes. And bear in mind that shapeshifting doesn't root.

Think of it as an "Aid Self" that can't be slotted to reduce interrupt time. AND detoggles EVERYTHING.

Which basically severely limits the bind's usefulness in pvp.

To the OP - Toggle key binds can only use two commands, so there is no way toggle-bind more than two powers that I know of.

But let me think about it and see what alternatives I can come up with. I don't think you're going to be able to do a true double stomp without an auto-fire, though.

Interesting idea. Lemme guess. You got that from this part of the first post:

...Right? I'm not in a position to test it out right now, but I think that probably the end result will be three seconds of shifting animation with you back in human but no heal. The reason is that the powexecauto command will only set the power to autofire. It's possible that the toggleoff will happen BEFORE the power can actually fire. In fact, I'm betting that the toggleoff will happen before the dwarf power will actually finish activating, and therefore cancel it out.

Now if shapeshifting were instantaneous...

But I can't say without testing it myself. It's not a bad theory, though.

I can also think of two other ways off the top of my head whereby you might accomplish this, depending on how you intend to use dwarf.

If you're mostly human form and only using dwarf for the extra heal, then just put the dwarf heal on auto fire and leave it that way. Then use the following bind:

/bind [key] "+down$$powexec_name white dwarf"

The +down designates it as a toggle key (and I'm not even sure the "down" after the + is necessary), so that when the key is pressed down the white dwarf power will activate, and when it is let up the white dwarf power will toggle off. If your heal is on auto it will fire immediately after the white dwarf animation finishes.

In fact, now that I think about it, I see no reason why you couldn't use Dremster's bind for what you want:

/bind [key] "+down$$powexec_auto white dwarf sublimation$$powexec_name white dwarf"

Be careful, though: if you let up on the key before the animation finishes, I'm betting nothing but the animation will happen - for the same reasons as above.

The most reliable method involves two binds, and is more useful if you're planning on using dwarf more:

/bind [key] "goto_tray 4$$powexec_name white dwarf sublimation$$powexec_toggleon white dwarf"

/bind [key] "goto_tray 1$$powexec_name solar flare$$powexec_toggleoff white dwarf"

Insert whatever power you want in place of solar flare. In fact, since my dwarf tray is so empty I like to use macros that transform me into human form and execute different powers based on the situation.

So to clarify (because I haven't been in game for longer than five minutes since I20 went live and haven't been able to test for myself - stupid real world) you're saying that the target_enemy_next must now come FIRST in the bind? I'll edit the OP accordingly - thanks!!

DOH! Another one I forgot! Both here and in game - keep forgetting to get that one!

...where's a pen and a sticky note? Gotta start writing these things down...


OP, glad I could help!

Knew I forgot to mention something!

What a ridiculous statement. Of course they can.

UNSLOTTED - the shields plus lightform yield 75% resistance to all but psi. Slotting them puts you well past the cap.

A slotted light form ALONE caps a Peacebringer's resistance.

Now, if you had said Peacebringers cannot PERMANENTLY self-cap their own resists, I'd have been more inclined to agree, but I'd have had to point out that Warshades cannot get Eclipse Perma without major Invention investment and even then have to have living enemies (contrary to other powers) to saturate that eclipse.

And while I'd also agree that Peacebringers can't pull off the same things that Warshades can, I'd also point out that just as much of that amazing capability in Warshades is due to Extracted Essence (damage multiplier and aggro soaker) as much as to Eclipse.

Okay, to the OP, some general tips first:

Don't waste an endmod IO in Nova or Dwarf. Stamina works in forms now, so you'll have very little problem with endurance when in form. That being said, I'd really recommend investing in three performance shifter procs - one for nova, one for dwarf, one for stamina. You won't regret it.

Invest in Achilles' Heal procs. You don't have to buy them all at once, just put some lowball bids on the market and let them set, picking up the bids you win over time. Spend some merits on them. They go especially well in form powers
There are those who will tell you that more than one is wasted since it doesn't stack, to which I say pppthhhhbbbt! One Achilles' heal -resistance proc in each nova attack gives you around a 75% chance that at least one of them will fire over the course of a complete attack chain (bolt-blast-scatter-bolt-blast-detonation). A 75% chance for 20% extra damage? Hell yes. I have one in each nova attack and one in each dwarf attack, and I spent LESS THAN A MILLION on the whole lot by low-balling the bids. Got them all over a two-week span. DO EET!

Take Hasten. Slot it. Kheldians get so much more from hasten than other archetypes because of their power-starved attack chains that it's just a damned shame to see a kheld without hasten. You'll REALLY thank me when you're locked in light form if you do.

Your heals are VASTLY underslotted. At least four slots in both human heals and the dwarf heal is essential to your survival. You want a monster Peacebringer that can survive against the odds? Slot your heals. Resistance isn't enough. One of the reasons Hasten is so important is to bring your heals back quicker, but if you don't slot them all that recharge goes to waste so far as your healing is concerned.

Unless you're just using it as an oh crap button, White Dwarf is also underslotted. If you're going to spend any time at all in Dwarf form you'll want to max its resistance with three (that's right: three) resist IO's and one performance shifter proc.

You're wondering where to get all these slots, right? Okay power by power then:

Glinting eye: Remove three slots. You'll never use this in the higher levels.

Incandescence: Remove the status resistance slot. Too little bang for the buck when you've got dwarf form, and you can use the slot elsewhere.

Shining Shield: Okay, how much time do you expect to spend in human form. Me? I'm only in human form when Light Form is up, so I originally found that a single resist damage IO is sufficient for my purposes, because a well-slotted Light Form will cap your resistance anyway. In fact, I dropped all shields from my build altogether and haven't looked back.

Bright Nova: A single Performance Shifter proc is sufficient here, but you might consider another slot for a Rectified Reticle +perception (BITE ME NIGHT WIDOWS! Stupid blinding powder) or even a Gaussian's chance for Build Up. Those last two are strictly optional, though.

Essence Boost - Four slots at least, please. Me? I'd five slot it with Doctored Wounds for the recharge bonus, as well.

Radiant Strike: IMHO Four slots are plenty for this power, but if you're going to put five in there then for Pete's sake get that Focused Smite out of there and replace it with a fifth Crushing Impact for the recharge bonus.

Gleaming Bolt: No. Do NOT take both Glinting Eye and Gleaming Bolt. DROP this power from your build. Take Hasten instead here and keep both slots in. Add a third if you can and fill them all with recharge.

Build Up: That Adjusted Targeting is wasting potential recharge enhancement with Tohit enhancement. Add another slot and put two Generic level 50 Recharge IO's in here.

Thermal Shield: Okay, this is the slot where you SHOULD have taken Incandescent Strike. Don't put that one off. As far as Thermal Shield goes, personally I'd drop this one, but if you REALLY want to take it go ahead, but I'd recommend only the default slot and take it at 22. Me? I'd take Maneuvers or Stealth at 22 and drop a Luck of the Gambler +recharge in there. OR you could drop a Kismet 6% ToHit in there (enhancement says 6% Accuracy, but it's ToHit)

White Dwarf: As mentioned, this power needs at least three or four slots, three for Resist Damage, and a fourth for a performance shifter proc. if you can swing it.

Incandescent Strike: Take this power at 18. I'm really wondering about your slotting philosophy on this. Why wouldn't you go for FIVE Crushing Impacts? Remove the sixth slot and use it elsewhere.

Quantum Shield: Another shield, another excuse to free up a slot and/or take something else. I suggest Combat Jumping for the LoTG recharge IO. Or how about Pulsar? Keep the extra slot and slot them both with accuracy. Even better, take Reform Essence at 24 and swap whatever this power ends up being with that (at 30)

Conserve Energy: Swap this with Solar Flare. You're really not going to need it much, but it is good for mitigating the end crash after dawn strike, so take it at 35 instead.


Reform Essence: you should take this earlier. Five Doctored Wounds, if you can. But AT LEAST four slots.

Light Form: If you're keeping the shields, two Generic Recharge IO's and have done with it. If not, slot it more. Like I said above, you can cap your resistances with Light Form alone, but you'll want to slot it for resistance AND recharge.

Photon Seekers: If you're going to take it, SLOT it. Might I suggest five Expedient Reinforcements for the recharge bonus?

Nova powers - Judging by the sheer number of slots here, you're expecting to spend a lot of time in nova, and you're not too worried about set bonuses. My go-to slotting for the nova attacks takes up just four slots:

The lv 50 Acc/Damage from the set of your choice in the first slot.

Two Centriole Exposures

One Achilles' Heel chance for -resistance.

Total Enhancement:

26% Accuracy+100% Inherent Accuracy from the Power+9% ToHit from Nova=more than enough (Especially if you slotted the Kismet +ToHit in a defensive power as suggested earlier)

67.2% Damage from 2 Hami's+26% Damage from the IO= 93% Damage Enhancement

67.2% Range Enhancement=comfort

WITH room for a chance for -resistance.


Dwarf Attacks: I tend to five slot these so I can proc them out with damage/Achilles Heel procs. Four Mako's Bite in each attack gives you two proc slots and a nice little damage bonus too.

Dwarf Heal - five slot with doctored wounds, please, for the recharge bonus.


Slotting for recharge bonuses is one thing that is valuable for a Peacebringer. It brings your heals, light form and photons seekers back earlier, but more importantly it smooths over attack chains and makes them seemless, which is something kheldians as a whole need. Nothing kills a dwarf faster than standing around waiting for attacks to recharge. Want to survive more? Kill faster. I used hero merits and reward merits to give me five LoTG's and five slotted five powers for a 5% recharge from doctored wounds or Crushing Impact, but truth be known that - and the 6.25% you'll get from expedient reinforcement in Photon Seekers - is probably all the recharge that's practical for a Peacebringer to have, since you'll never be able to make Photon Seekers or Light Form perma as it stands now.

I slotted that way so I could go for the Musculature rare in the Alpha Slot for better damage potential, but you might look into the Spiritual Alpha too.

Well, hope that all helps a little - much of what I said is up for debate, I'm sure, but it's helped me out, so YMMV.

Like Hellion Golf.

Go as far south in Atlas as you can and find a Hellion (Clockwork will do, but there aren't as many) and knock him as far north as you can. If he lands in the pool behind Miss Liberty, it's a hole in one. If he lands anywhere else, you have to go to where the body landed, find the nearest Hellion (or enemy from the same group if you used someone besides a Hellion) and try again.

Atlas Park is a par 4, IMHO. Don't forget to shout "FORE!!!" in broadcast each time.

This is a good point, and one I'd like to hilight. I've actually worried about this a bit, but one thing keeps popping up in that cluttered head of mine. In order for something to be nerfed, it has to be demonstrated that it is actually overpowering other key aspects of the game.

With incarnates tossing out judgment AoE's on every other spawn, Soldiers of Arachnos soft-capping entire teams and Fulcrum Shift completely trivializing entire spawns, I don't see how Warshades are overpowering anything in the game that wasn't overpowered already by a dozen other archetype/powerset combinations already.

But that's my point: you can prove empirically that Peacebringers are underperforming when compared to the vast majority of the game in general, but the only thing you can prove with respect to Warshades being overpowered is that they're overpowered when compared to Peacebringers. With everything else in the game, they're holding their own. In other words, they're balanced.

The problem is that Peacebringers' aren't. So I'm not really worried about any kind of nerf sports equipment visiting Warshades any time soon.

Remember that thread you recently pointed to that I started?

For reference, here are the links again to the spreadsheets referenced therein:

Peacebringer

Warshade

Now, if you'll go in and look at those spreadsheets, you might notice that - apart from the pets, Peacebringers have the following Single Target damage potential (expressed in dps):

Human: 99
Dwarf: 74
Nova: 101

Warshades have the following damage potential:

Human: 68
Dwarf: 77
Nova: 91

AoE is as follows:

Peacebringers:

Human: 119
Dwarf: 96
Nova: 214

Warshades:

Human: 76
Dwarf: 143
Nova: 177

Single Target, Peacebringers HANDS DOWN out-damage Warshades outside of pet/nuke damage, so far as those spreadsheets are concerned (important caveat, there). Even Black Dwarf with its double mires only pulls ahead of White Dwarf by 3dps.

These numbers are due to two things: The power of Incandescent Strike, Radiant Strike, and Solar Flare (which, despite its knockback, is up more often than its Warshade Counterpart Gravitic Emanation) and the efficiency and consistency of Build Up verses the long recharge and accuracy-dependent nature of Sunless Mire.*

*The catch is rather large, however; you have to drop to human form and use Build Up every time it's recharged. In that sense the numbers will be heavily dependent on player skill at switching forms and hitting the power to keep up the damage (in a way, kind of like brutes have to keep their fury going, not that I'd ever compare the two) Human Form Peacebringers have less trouble with that, obviously.

AoE-wise, Warshades need to hit much more than three with their mires to compete with Peacebringers until the pets are taken into consideration.

In other words, it's not that Warshades are that much better at doing damage than Peacebringers; it's more like Extracted Essences are that much better at adding to the damage than Photon Seekers.

Outside of the pets, the two archetypes are pretty balaced, damage-wise. Asking the developers to go in and disrupt that balance by buffing multiple powers for Peacebringers when all that would suffice would be to fix a single pet power that's clearly broken is not something I would do, but whatever floats the nova, I suppose.


One thing to note: Since Cosmic Balance works in forms now as well as human form, Dwarf and Nova can cap their resistance the same way Human Form can. I can't tell from what you wrote, so you may well have meant to say it and I'm just thick, but it is a valid point that - since Dwarf Form can cap its resistances from Cosmic Balance now (and couldn't when Castle made that decision) then there is more reason to take Dwarf than just mez protection, and by extension that giving some sort of mez protection to human form (or at least defensive shields) might be something worth revisiting.

As a dedicated triformer who really doesn't have a stake in the debate one way or the other, I'll leave the finer points of that argument to others.

Don't forget about Hami-O's. They're a nutritious part of a balanced slotting plan!

I wouldn't be against it by any stretch, but it still doesn't address the discrepancies between the two kheldian archetypes specifically. But I sure wouldn't turn it down, nope nosiree...

However, keep in mind that a well-slotted dwarf has 65% damres in the first place, so a solo dwarf with this change would hit its head on the cap so hard the nova would bruise.

On the fence about this one. Seems like everyone wants to take over the tanking role, lately. I can see problems with it. For example give my Peacebringer a taunt aura with even a little +regen and you're asking for some serious balance problems. I don't even need a full team of damage dealers to be at the resistance cap. At the resistance cap with even half of what Willpower's +regen aura gives - combined with health that works in the forms now - and I'd be frickin' unkillable.

Not that I'd complain. I'm just saying that an kind of taunt aura effect that increases the dwarf's tanking ability REALLY needs to take cosmic balance into effect, so much so that I'd wonder a little if it's even possible, balance-wise. After all, a dwarf kind of needs to be on a team to tank, no?

ON THE OTHER HAND, I would be frickin' unkillable, so why would I say no to that?

Been there, done that. As the link says, it would bring human form damage potential up from 112dps to only 134dps. Given that a Warshade's damage potential - after the extracted essences are taken into account - is 189dps, I don't think it would be enough of a buff on its own.

But check out the link in that post to the spreadsheet and decide for yourself on that.

Remove the accuracy debuffs and normalize your passengers' speed with yours and I'd take it. I've been on too many verticle maps with superspeeders, I suppose.

Hell, give it a little defense and let me slot another LotG in there. Not likely, but more likely than dropping it entirely.

Yes. A thousand times, yes. Keep it typed defense if you must, but make them defense. I might actually take them then.

But what to do with Light Form if that's the case? Make it a clone of Elude? Just don't think they'd let you have that level of layered mitigation.

My vote would be for the hold.

Not /signing this one at all. Cottage rule notwithstanding, I like Photon Seekers as Pets. You've already got a nuke.

Besides, my "pet" suggestion is to give each seeker a small radius (10-12 feet) pbaoe damage buff that lasts for 30 seconds, to the amount of 15%, and shorten the recharge to 90 seconds. That's 15% +damage for 30 seconds per seeker, for a grand total of a possible 45% defense for a maximum of 30 seconds.

Used as they are typically used now, this brings PB damage potential up from 112dps in human form to 158dps, provided all three seekers explode at or around the same time and explode within 10-12 feet of the caster.

It's also a potentially nice team buff if you've teammates fighting in close range of you. They're flexible, in that you can release them all at once for maximum buffage to stack with build up, or you can use them from range (like in nova form) allowing them to protect you from meleers and let their buff fall on you - and/or your teammates in range - in layers.

And you don't have to break the cottage rule. You're essentially assigning an additional buff power to the seekers. It could also be done by the same means by which Fiery Embrace was buffed - give the caster an extra 15% energy damage on each attack per seeker exploding. (since they're pets, however, I'm not sure how doable that would be).

Pie is also acceptable.

Rectified Reticle: Increased Perception goes very nicely in Nova for just that reason.

I'll take it! Just to have them acknowledge that they need looking at is encouraging!

So, yeah. Yay!

Same here. In trial or out. Ninja Run and Beast Run are both unusable.

Two powers need changing. Two. Changing one power will double your dps. Changing one other power will increase your survivability. What sounds more likely to you: convincing the devs that the entire archetype is crap and must be changed, or convincing the devs that two powers are seriously underperforming and need fixed?

I don't disagree that the archetype needs major help, but there's nothing wrong with being pragmatic, either. If changing two powers will change the archetype, then I'm all for focusing on those two powers. Hyperbole will not convince them. Reasoning by one or two players will not convince them. Know what else won't convince them? Putting on our walking shoes and discouraging other players from playing them.

Only datamining on their part will bring any kind of change, and you want to deprive them of that data by staging some sort of mass walkout on the archetype? That's wrong on two levels. First, even if you get everyone reading the forums to stop playing Peacebringers, you've got... only the people on the forums not playing Peacebringers. People playing the game who don't read the forums vastly outnumber us, as if you didn't already know that, and would still be providing that data.

Second, thousands upon thousands of blasters walked around at the debt cap for the first few years of this game, and it was that huge amount of blaster debt that convinced the developers to scrap Defiance 1.0 and come out with Defiance 2.0. People sure didn't avoid the archetype.

Same with stalkers. People might not have teamed with them, but they sure as hell didn't suffer in terms of population. The developers saw that the vast majority of them were in pvp and were solo in pve and decided to help them team.

If I had my way, I'd convince EVERYONE who could to play a Peacebringer to at least 38 not only to share in my joy of the archetype (languishing though it is) but also to provide the developers with enough data to hilight the problems with it. A walkout is counterproductive to that goal.

If you're going to quote the numbers from those spreadsheets I made, you might want to go back and look at the reasons for those numbers.

Peacebringers do half to 2/3's the damage of Warshades for one reason and one reason alone: Extracted Essences. Remove the level 32 pets from the equation and Peacebringers are pretty much dead even with Warshades, with a slight nod given to Peacebringers in human form and a slight nod given to Warshades in Dwarf Form.

Buff the Photon Seekers=buff the archetype.

Same goes with survivability. Warshades have ten times the survivability as Peacebringers due to one power: Eclipse. If Light Form were up as often as Eclipse, you'd see the combination of that and the self-contained heals propelling Peacebringers up to par and even past their darker halves' durability.

To the OP -

My advice is to roll with the tri-form, but switch forms from spawn to spawn instead of from attack to attack. If there are two spawns in close proximity, go dwarf. If there's a high ceiling in the room, try nova. If Light Form is charged and you need extra damage, pop hasten and light form and don't look back.

Hami-O's are your friend. Grab some range/damage IO's for around 100,000 apiece (last I checked) and slot two of each in nova attacks along with one accuracy (for an example)

One IO I would heavily invest in: Achilles' Heel chance for -res. Snatch them up every chance you get and don't stop until you've got one in every attack. That's right. Every attack. There are those who may consider this wasteful, given that it doesn't stack, but what you're doing is stacking the RNG in your favor.

And use binds and macros. For example:

/macro stomp "powexec_toggleoff white dwarf$$goto_tray 1$$powexec_name solar flare"

fits very nicely in your dwarf tray for the final aoe of an almost dead spawn. Many more like that in the link in my sig.

Good luck!

I have to laugh at this part even more than the Fire/.

Really? Don't roll Ice/? A set with a click soft-cap defense power, a damage taunt aura and a -damage taunt aura, max hit point/heal AND a tier 9 Phase that - with SO slotting and Hasten - is up almost as fast the 30 second phase rule allows?

Yeah. Don't roll Ice/...

Can't speak for willpower, but I can speak for the battle axe and pool powers.

Beheader: Listen to New Dawn. SLOT Beheader! You can't afford to pass up using a 20% resistance debuff, and if you're going to use it, you might as well slot it.

Build Up: You have tactics, and Build Up is the one you six slot with Gaussians? Put the Gaussians in tactics and put that Rectified Reticle here. It's a global increase in perception and so it's not tied to the power activation. Oh, and two more slots can be removed from Stamina and put on this for Generic Recarge IO's.

Whirling Axe - Obliteration does just above bubkiss for endurance reduction, and endurance reduction you ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE in every power in the battleaxe set, even with QR and Stamina. ESPECIALLY on the AoE's. If you don't need the melee defense bonus, consider using one of those Obliteration slots for a generic END Redux IO. Me? I frankenslotted mine to maximize damage, accuracy and end reduction, adding in an explosive strike proc for a little extra damage.

Explosive strike procs, by the way, are dirt cheap and will fit into every single attack. Just thought I"d mention.

Cleave: Cleave is a very narrow cone, and as such does not take melee sets. So if you're hellbent on Obliterations this is another good spot for it. But see what I said above about endurance reduction. You're going to need it. LOTS of it.

Pendulum: You know what I"m going to say, right?

Tough/Weave/Maneuvers/Tactics - massive end drain when coupled with so many aoe's in your attack chain that have full sets of obliterations. Off the top of my head, I also don't believe Mako's offers all that much in End reduction, but I could be wrong. I'd keep tough and weave, but swap out maneuvers for combat jumping, tactics for Focused Accuracy (from the energy epic) and (since you won't meet the requirements for it) Vengeance for Physical Perfection.

That's pretty much it at a glance, but before I go let me say again to SLOT FOR END REDUCTION!! All those LoTG's, Hasten and all those toggles will likely drain your end bar before you get through three complete attack chain cycles. EVEN with stamina and Quick Recovery.

When you think you have enough, slot some more end reduction.

And go for the cardiac alpha. You're gonna need it if you're slotting nothing but obliterations in your aoe's.

I'd say Darkest Night has ALOT to do with it. Might also be who you're fighting. My Icer is softcapped to everything but Psionics, and has a fair set of recharge bonuses, as well. Arachnos, Carnies, Council/5th (to a much lesser extent), Rikti (magi, mentalists, and - surprisingly enough - rikti monkeys in large numbers), - all are much more common than not at the higher levels. On the other hand, if you're fighting mainly CoT, Malta and Praetorians maybe you don't have so much trouble. My Icer used to get hit all the time by psionic attacks until I contributed some set bonuses for ranged.

Besides. It's not like it's hard. Here's the build from above, but with a little more recharge and 31% ranged defense (and a bit more added to that s/l softcap):

Almost nothing's given up to achieve it, so why not have that extra layer?

Actually, I've had similar experiences on my Peacebringer. In the long, drawn-out fight situation where my team doesn't have the dps to bring down an AV quickly, even though my PB outdamages a WS, it's not enough to turn the tide. There's never been a time when this happens when I could say "I'm glad I brought a Peacebringer and not a Warshade," because my Peacebringer only did marginally better than a comparably kitted out Warshade.

How do I know? My wife plays a comparably kitted out Warshade alongside my Peacebringer. Many's the time she's had me drooling with envy in large groups over what her Warshade and her "kooshball floatilla" could do, but the only thing she truly envies is light form's costume swap. That, and my dwarf tanks a little better than hers.