Screwloose

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true, but Geko's post also does not deny it.

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It certainly could be clearer.

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it we take Geko's explanation literally then his explanation only applies to dual damage type attacks (the MELEE, RANGED, or AoE component is not considered).

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That is because the only thing that was bugged was +Def vs multiple damage types.

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but if we look at the intent of Geko's explanation . . . "Only the highest +DEF value counts". well then, my eyebrows raise.

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His quote also makes it clear that +Def from multiple powers adds up to a total +Def that is then applied to any attack.

So it is not the highest +Def power that is used and all other +Def powers ignored, but all the +Def from all your powers is added up for each category and then the highest is used.

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so the question is what exactly does "Only the highest +DEF value counts" refer to? just the damage-type aspects of the attack, or the melee/ranged/aoe-type aspecs as well?

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I agree. And it is possible that even if there wasn't a problem before that the changes that were put in have somehow made +Def vs Damage Type and +Def vs Attack mode non stacking.

Certainly some people have been gathered evidence that this may be the case and if it is then it would seem to be a bug to me. Some comment from the Devs to put minds at rest would be good.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

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the new Invicibility provides +DEF(melee,ranged)
Tough Hide provides +DEF(lethal,smash,fire,cold,energy,neg energy)

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That is what Invincibility has always done.

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i just picked up Tough Hide to boost my survivability against attacks with annoying side effects (end drains, etc). i have noticed no significant improvement since picking up Tough Hide and now i know why.

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Mostly I would suspect it is because with 3 or more mobs the +Def from Invinc is much higher than the +Def from Tough Hide so it isn't easy to see.

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since Invincibilty and Tough Hide provide 2 completely different types of defense my Tough Hide power is doing absolutely nothing.

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My reading of Geko's post doesn't support that. His post only mentions +Def vs damage types so there is no indication that +Def vs melee would not be added to +Def vs Fire for a fire melee attack.

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it was a wasted pick and im just glad i havent put too many slots in it before seeing this thread.

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I am not going to say it is not bugged, there is enough evidence to suggest that something odd is going on and also plenty of people just don't like Tough Hide becuase of it's small +Def, but I think it is a bit over the top to blame a possible coding error for you not liking a power.

The only other easy combo I can think of to test this stacking or lack of stacking would be a Stone Tanker with Weave. +Def vs a type of damage from one of their Stone Armours and +Def vs vs Ranged and Melee from Weave.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

Nice guide.

Old Fantasy Nukers Rule; It is not your job to do the first 20% of the mobs HP early, but to do the last 60% of the mobs HP quickly.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

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Hmm...
it does debuff the mobs' accuracy...
but I'm still getting knocked down...
it would need 6-slots to be fully effective...
Quills + Death Shroud = mobs constantly attack me...

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point 1. Yes it does.
Point 2. KD is annoying but not fatal and if they are Acc Debuffed the mobs are hitting you less therefore KDing you less.
Point 3. Like any power the more slots the better. I find it needs an End and I like to put an Acc in it to increase the chance it will hit on the first pulse. After that as many To Hit Debuff as you can spare, I went with 3.
Point 4. The mobs will be attacking you as much as they normally do, no faster.

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What do you think? Is CoF worth picking up now? At what level?

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I think that you need something on top of the Resistance shields, CoD and Dark Regen to make DA viable in high threat situations.

OpGloom is great for nullifying minions, but does nothing to help you vs LT's or Bosses.

CoF Debuffs everything.

Personally I went for both, because I like having more tools than I could possibly need and then trying them in different combinations in different situations.

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For your convenience, this is my build, with slotting up to level 40. I'm currently level 28, as yet untrained.

Whaddaya think? Thanks in advance for any advice.

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Overall looks prett good, much the same as mine, couple of comments.

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Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Dark Embrace /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes

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I'd consider an End reducer in DE. IMHO toggles that you have on all the time are good candicates for End reducers.

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Level 2 : Spine Burst /Acc,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg

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I went for an extra Dam over the End reducer on this and Throw Spines. Generally I try to pick my fights so that I only need one burst of AE's then some pulses of DS and Quills to KO the minions in a pack of mobs and even with one End reducer the AE's use too much End to be useful vs a single target.

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Level 30 : Cloak Of Darkness /EndRdx,EndRdx,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf

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Not sure the seconds End reducer is doing you a lot of good here, but it is a power that I leave on all the time, in fact I use to tell teams that if they could see me I wasn't ready to attack (% .

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Level 41 : Oppressive Gloom /Empty

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Single Acc does well here, I went for a Diso duration as well just for kicks.

regards, Screwloose.
50 Spines Dark Armour Scrapper Justice.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

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Hi. I just spent time reading this first post of this guide ... and don't understand a damn thing.

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NP it isn't all obvious.

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How do you even get these numbers??

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Well some of them were made up for the example, but some have been dropped in posts by dev's about how the system works. Most of those Dev posts are now deleted in forum clean ups so we only have commentaries that mention them.

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20 endurance to use and recharges in 20 seconds use
2 SO endurance reduction enhancements which are 33.30% each
2 SO reload reduction enhancements which are 33.30% each
(both even with your level) which gives a 1.00 each

would work like this: 20 / 1.66 (where does this number come from???) = 12.05.

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The formula for an Enh that reduces something is
Modified value = Base value / (1+total Enh vlaue).

Enh value for most SO's is .33. For 2 SO's that would be .66.

So for a power with some base value of 20, say End cost, 2 SO End reducers would give a modified value of 20 / (1+ .66) = 12.05 approximately.

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The formula for determining exactly how much boost an enhancement at a specific level is as follows:

+3 = *1.15
+2 = *1.10
+1 = *1.05
0 = *1.00
-1 = *.90
-2 = *.80
-3 = *.70

So, say you're level 31. You have a level 29 SO, and a level 34 SO. The level 29 SO gives you a 26.6% boost, and the level 34 gives you a 38.3% boost. This works the same, whether that 34 is a plain 34, or a 32++.

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And this? Can anyone please explain in simple terms?

I'm begging here because I can't understand all this short lingo stuff and haven't found a thread that simply explains it.

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Enh that are higher level that your level give a greater bonus. If you are level 25 and you have a 25++ or 27 Enh, that is 2 levels higher than yours, then the bonus that Enh gives is 10% bigger, ie multiplied by 1.1.

Similarly Enh which are lower level than you give a lesser bonus. If you are level 26 then your level 25 Enh only give you 90% of their usual bonus.

So an SO that normally gives 20% bonus, say a Def bonus SO, would give you 22% if it was two levels higher than your character and 18% if it was one level lower than your character.

Hope that helps.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

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Heh - nice guide. Lotsa nice information.

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Ta

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Just dinged 38 and got Ustop. Now im looking forward to the EPPs. Think i will go for EShuriken, guess i will be an AOE Monster.

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Weapons seems to be the least popular EPP, but I think the EShuriken on top of the rest of your AE will be pretty nasty. One thing I did have wrong for a while was that you can get the top EPP power at level 47, like any other PP you only need two prereqs for the top power and you can take those at 41 and 44. The trick will be getting everything else you want in before 41.

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One Question:
Most ppl advice against Stealth on Spiners. I myself made very good experience with it as it does not impact aggro itself but only the aggro range. So all mobs near enough to be in my SB range, get aggroed while those more far away dont notice me (Thats very nice for postI3 Inv scrappers as i dont want them to use ranged guns on me - but its prolly bad for herding guys).

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I don't like Herding anyway so it never bothered me. I think Stealth is fine. As you say you are going to damage agro everything nearby, especially with Throw Spines so that is not so much of a problem. I have found that some players, even ones I play with often, forget that the mobs can't see me and move so close they agro stuff further back, but they tend to work it out after a couple of times.

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Do you see any synergy with open PPs to Spines in general?
(I agree on Hasten and Stamina being nearly mandatory for a AOE monster).

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I wish Stamina was less useful (% . I don't find myself needing it on my ofhte AT's maybe it is just that Scrappers feel more Scrapperish as little dynamos of action.

Hasten is good for just about any character, if it needed a Pre Req then I would say it might be a harder decision, but if you have a PP choice open then it is very hard to go past.

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As i went Leaping (Superjump) i have chossen JumpKick instead of the more popular CJ. Imo a heavily underrated attack. It offers KB at 100% - this means, when i cycle it with Ripper under PermaHasten i can keep a strong boss on his butt 50% of the time in average - a very nice addition to our SpineSet which misses CC options like KB. Your opinion on that?

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If it works do it (% .

Generally I have a fairly vanilla design style for any AT, I take a lot the Primary and Secondary and few PPs. If I can't see 7 powers I want in a Primary or Secondary then I don't take it.

For the most part IMHO PP attacks are overall less effective than Powerset ones, however as you say where it gives you an effect that your Powerset doesn't have then it can give you some very effective combat options.

And that certainly is one of the reasons to take something form a PP, if it gives you some option or capability that makes you play more fun that you couldn't get from your Primary or Secondary.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

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People always talk about "respecing out of those weak attacks", but often, you can't. You can sometimes reduce the # of slots in them, if you have something early that needs slots (Buildup and HASTEN for me).

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The log jam of powers to be selected from in the early levels is a sneaky way of making sure that you can't end up with a character with no useful powers.

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I also took Murky Cloud early because "I HAD TO", didn't want DS or Gambler's Cut.

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I earmarked MC as a power I wasn't going to take as soon as I created my DA Scrapper. My theory at the time was that having two toggles that I couldn't use at the same time was going to be annoying enough without having to swtich between 3.

Since I got to 50 without MC or Fighting or being able to use DE most of the time after about level 20 I tend to discount other posters views that MC and Tough, Weave are absolutely necessary. Certainly there are situations where MC will save you from taking a lot of damage, but there are few situations in which the a majority of the incoming damage will not be Smash / Lethal and therefore IMHO MC is a more marginal choice than DE (which is not really a choice at all).

In my post I3 respec build I did take MC, but couldn't squeeze it in until level 41.

regards. Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

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My Dark/Dark Build as Morcalivan, the Nictus Scrapper.

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Overall pretty good, just a few comments.

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Slot[07] Level 10 : Obsidian Shield /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes

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At some point you will find it pretty much mandatory to run Ob Shield in every fight to avoid Status ERffects, so an End reducer in it is a good investment IMHO.

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Slot[16] Level 28 : Cloak Of Fear /Acc,HitDeb,HitDeb,HitDeb,HitDeb,HitDeb

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Cloak of Fear has a pretty high End cost, similar to other Offensive toggles, an End Reducer in it is highly recommended.

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Slot[17] Level 30 : Invoke Panic /Acc,Acc,EndRdx

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This is for an AE Fear tactic combined with CoF rather than the more usual ToF + CoF combo?

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I might boot out Opressive Gloom and Soul Transfer and one of the epics for Stamina. Haven't decided yet.

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IMHO Op Gloom is a great power, effectivly nullifies all minions that you can get in melee range. Yes Fear will sort of shut them down too but some minions you don't want taking any actions and Fear'ed mobs will still take non attack actions, like healing other mobs.

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All I know is I want Dark Tentacles so that my Death Shroud and Cloak of Fear can take full effect after I cast Provoke.

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Why do you think that you need an Immobilise to make your Fear's work? Fear and Provoke use to be a combo because Fear made things run away, but now Feared mobs stand still and cower, you don't need to Provoke them to keep them near.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

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How fast can you guys get Dark Consumption? Imo it's what makes DA reach it's full potential.

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Dark Consumption is available at level 18.

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Sure Stamina is good but if you can fill up your whole bar while at the same time causing moderate damage to every enemy in range, then why would a Dark/Dark need it right? Depends on how fast it can recharge with perma-hasten and a couple rech enhancements.

When I'm done enhancing I will have 5 rech on hasten (6 is a complete waste) and 3 rech with 1 acc on my dark consumption.

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With perma Hasten and 3 recharge reducers you should have DC available every 67 seconds, not bad.

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With DR followed by DC combos, and soul drain beefing up the death shroud, it becomes pretty easy to kick some [censored] with this set and make the fights short and sweet.

Granted, downtime between fights is a pain in the [censored] without stamina,

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And that is why some people prefer the steady always on End recovery of Stamina, it doesn't give you the big highs of powers like DC but it also doesn't give you the long waits while your uber combo recharges.

Not that there is anything wrong with the playstyle that you have suggested, it certainly works, but making a character that relies on it does also come with draw backs, as you have noted.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

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I have a question on how you slotted out the resistance shields mine are 1 endredux and 3 dam resist. Do you know the slotting off hand for maximum resistance (now that scrappers have a 75% cap?)

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Base resistance numbers (Thanks Romance)

Dark Embrace: 22.5% Smashing/Lethal Resist, 15% Negative Resist Toggle. Cost: 0.39 E/ps (Endurance per Second)

Murky Cloud: 26.25% Cold, Fire, Energy Resist, 15% Negative. Cost: 0.39 E/ps

Obsidian Shield: 37.5% Psychic resist, Sleep, Hold, Disorientate Resist. Cost: 0.39 E/ps

5 SO Resistance Enh will double those values, 6 will give you 2.2 times.

So even with 6 SO's only Ob Shield will reach the cap.

I also have a number of 15% for base Resist for Tough, which would mean Tough and DE both slotted with 5 Resist Enh would take you exactly to the Res Cap for Scrappers, but that is looking more like an wannabe Invuln Scrapper than a Scary Scraptroller.

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Also I toyed with the idea of getting the body mastery pool but when I found I couldn't get conserve power perma I dropped the idea. Do you have end redux slotted on any of your shields?

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I slot an End reducer in every toggle, except OpGloom, and find it does help significantly with End costs.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

six slotting means ... putting 6 slots into a power. Basically since 6 slots is the most you can put in a power it means putting as much Enhancement into a power as you can.

You will want to do this with powers that you find particularly effective for your playstyle.

Powergamers use it as a short hand which roughly translates as "this power is the uberest".

Min / Max is the philosophy of Minimum investment for Maximum gain.

Basically it assumes that all abilities have some sort of break even point at which they produce the maximum effect for the investment made to get there and above which you get less return for your investment.

For individual powers this is not hard to work out, but sometimes combinations of powers give additional effects by synergy and start to generate enormous mathematical proofs that doing thing in X fashion produces 2% more efficiency that doing it Y way.

People who need to know that their character is absolutely as powerful as it is possible to be often get involved in this sort of shenanigans.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

Little bit of self promotion.

Thoughts of a level 50 Spines Scrapper (Long).

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

I hadn’t wanted to really concentrate on builds in my ramble, but I get PM’s every so often asking me what powers I took, so here is some more about that.

Screwloose – the pre I3 build that I took to level 50.

Archetype: Scrapper
Primary Powers - Melee : Spines
Secondary Powers - Defense : Dark Armor
Slot[01] Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Lunge /Acc, End, 4xDam
Slot[02] Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Dark Embrace /End, 5xRes
Slot[03] Level 2 : Death Shroud /Acc, End, 4xDam
Slot[04] Level 4 : Spine Burst /Acc, 5xDam
Slot[05] Level 6 : Hasten /6xRecharge
Slot[06] Level 8 : Build Up /2xRecharge
Slot[07] Level 10 : Impale /Acc, Range, End, 3xDam
Slot[08] Level 12 : Obsidian Shield /End, 5xRes
Slot[09] Level 14 : Super Speed /Run
Slot[10] Level 16 : Hurdle /Leap
Slot[11] Level 18 : Health /Heal
Slot[12] Level 20 : Stamina /6xEnd Recovery
Slot[13] Level 22 : Quills /Acc, End, 3xDam
Slot[14] Level 24 : Dark Regeneration /Acc, 2xEnd
Slot[15] Level 26 : Cloak Of Darkness /End, 4xDef Buff
Slot[16] Level 28 : Ripper /Acc, End, 4xDam
Slot[17] Level 30 : Cloak Of Fear /Acc, End, 3xTo Hit Debuff
Slot[18] Level 32 : Throw Spines /Acc, 5xDam
Slot[19] Level 35 : Oppressive Gloom /Acc, Disorient
Slot[20] Level 38 : Whirlwind /End
Slot[21] Level 41 : Recall Friend /Empty
Slot[22] Level 44 : Teleport /End
Slot[23] Level 47 : Swift /Run
Slot[24] Level 49 : Teleport Foe /Empty
Slot[25] Level 1 : Brawl /Dam
Slot[26] Level 1 : Sprint-Prestige /Leap
Slot[27] Level 2 : Rest /Recharge


My goal after I had chosen Spines and Dark Armour was to see how well they worked with a minimum of Power Pool reinforcement.

I liked the look of all the Spines powers, except Taunt (now Confront) as I didn’t want to be that sort of Scrapper, and I decided that I could probably do without one of Barb Swipe or Lunge.

All the Dark Armour powers looked pretty useful too. Except that I decided changing between 3 non stacking shields would probably be a pain, so I would drop Murky Cloud and just live with the pain of that decision. Soul Transfer also was never in my plan as I dislike self rez powers.

I had a pretty tough time of it from levels 20 to 30. After level 20 I found it not worth while to turn off ObShield as there was so often some minion that would have a chance to Stun me taking down all my toggles. Shortly after taking Cloak of Fear I noticed someone posting about the strength of it’s To Hit debuff and gave it a go, after one mission it had become the foundation of my tactics vs Bosses.

Once I got OpGloom I hardly ever turned it off and is made my life much easier, nullifying a huge proportion of the minions that I faced after that.

My power selection after 35 was pretty much just filler powers. By that time we had some indication that the APP were coming so I didn’t want to take anything that I would like so much it would be hard to drop, and I still wanted to see how well Dark Armour could protect me without something like the Fighting pool.

It also probably helped me because I didn’t put any slots into those powers so my earlier powers became very heavily slotted, something I wouldn’t be able to do once I was taking APP powers at 41+.

As it was I enjoyed TPort and Swift so much that I decided to drop Superspeed and Hurdle and change to TPort as my movement power.

Screwloose – post I3 respec, with Stacking Shields and Darkness Mastery APP.

Archetype: Scrapper
Primary Powers - Melee : Spines
Secondary Powers - Defense : Dark Armor
Slot[01] Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Lunge /Acc, End, 2xDam
Slot[02] Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Dark Embrace /End, 5xRes
Slot[03] Level 2 : Spine Burst /Acc, 5xDam
Slot[04] Level 4 : Death Shroud /Acc, End, 4xDam
Slot[05] Level 6 : Build Up /Recharge
Slot[06] Level 8 : Hasten /6xRecharge
Slot[07] Level 10 : Impale /Acc, 3xDam
Slot[08] Level 12 : Recall Friend /Recharge
Slot[09] Level 14 : Teleport /End
Slot[10] Level 16 : Obsidian Shield /End, 4xRes
Slot[11] Level 18 : Swift /Run
Slot[12] Level 20 : Quills /Acc, End, 2xDam
Slot[13] Level 22 : Health /Heal
Slot[14] Level 24 : Dark Regeneration /Acc, 2xEnd
Slot[15] Level 26 : Stamina /6xEnd Recovery
Slot[16] Level 28 : Ripper /Acc, 4xDam
Slot[17] Level 30 : Cloak Of Darkness /End, 3xDef Buff
Slot[18] Level 32 : Throw Spines /Acc, 5xDam
Slot[19] Level 35 : Cloak Of Fear /Acc, End, 3xTo Hit Debuff
Slot[20] Level 38 : Oppressive Gloom /Acc, Disorient
Slot[21] Level 41 : Murky Cloud /End, 4xRes
Slot[22] Level 44 : Petrifying Gaze /Acc, 2xHold
Slot[23] Level 47 : Dark Blast /Acc, End, 2x Dam
Slot[24] Level 49 : Tenebrous Tentacles /Acc, Cone Range
Slot[25] Level 1 : Brawl /Dam
Slot[26] Level 1 : Sprint-Prestige /Leap
Slot[27] Level 2 : Rest /Recharge

This is a respect build from 50 so order of the powers is less important, until I am Exemplaring.

Trying to get Hasten, a movement power and Stamina all in early does push back powers that I would like to take as soon as they are available. I would like to be able to do without Stamina, as I have on some other characters, but even I can’t avoid the end issues with Spines Dark Armour.

Regards, Screwloose.
50 Spines DA Scrapper Justice.
“I am not young enough to know everything.”

Spines can be a fun and effective powerset. It is slightly different to other Scrapper powersets in that the strength of its AE attacks make it more effective against larger numbers of minions than powerful single targets, but not so much so that it is ineffective vs single targets.

Spines got me to level 50 in a reasonable time while soloing a fair bit, doing lots of missions, story arcs and task forces and contributing to any team I was in. Most importantly IMHO it was also fun.

The following is a bit of a ramble and all MHO, but might hopefully give some people some ideas as to how to give Spines a go.

Caveat.

This ramble is written from my experience of what worked for me. Just because it got me to level 50 doesn’t mean that what worked for me will work for you. And even if it does maybe it won’t be fun for you.

Your own experience is always a better indicator of what will work for you than what some bizarrely named anonymous person on an internet forum writes.


Primary Powers.

All the Spines powers are good. Okay a couple might not be quite so good, but generally you can’t go too wrong taking a lot of the Spines powers.

A quick word on the two less good Spines Powers.

Confront. The new Scrapper Taunt. I didn’t take it when it was the old Scrapper Taunt and I don’t intend to take it in my /respec build because I didn’t want to play that sort of Scrapper, but if you do then it works fine.

Barb Swipe is odd and most people avoid it. I think that there is a place for Barb Swipe in a Spines build that relies almost totally on AE. If you have Barb Swipe then any other single target attack makes a nearly complete attack cycle that you can use to fill in time while you wait for your AE’s to recharge. Since you are using a bare minimum of single target attacks you have more slots to throw into other things, but it seems a pretty marginal tactic to me.

After that your attacks fall into two camps. Your single target attack cycle and your AE Alpha-Volley.

You need a solid single target attack cycle. Your AE’s cost too much End to use vs single targets and take too long to recharge. Early on Brawl, Lunge and Impale will do a decent job. Add Ripper in later and you should be able to keep a reasonably constant cycle of attacks going. Don’t be concerned that your damage may seem low or slow because hopefully you will be attacking mobs that have already taken a large chunk of damage from …

Your AE Alpha-Volley. This is basically everything AE you have at maximum overload. Eventually it will be Throw Spines, Spine Burst and Quills with Build Up. You want to maximise your consistent damage with the Alpha-Volley so slot an Acc then as many Damage Enh as you can in your AE’s. Vs non-Resistant level+0 minions an Alpha-Volley well slotted with SO’s should KO every minion you get in the AE’s.

You can maximise your AE damage on a normal pack of mobs in their initial standing position by carefully choosing you line of approach and by queuing your attacks.

Try to pick a mob on the far side of the pack with equal number on either side of the line between you and the targeted mob. Close in to a comfortable distance just outside agro range. Hit Build Up, Follow and queue Throw Spines. You will fire Throw Spines at the maximum range and if you have the furthest mob targeted you should cover most of the pack of mobs. As soon as you see the Throw Spines fire off hit Spine Burst. This should get Spine Burst to go off just before you get to the target mob, again getting a good proportion of the pack in the AE. Hopefully that will leave you with either a pack of KO’ed mobs or give you just a little clean up to do. As they say in the classics, Practise well.

It costs the same End to AE one mob as it does to AE ten mobs, so if you can survive the return fire getting more mobs into your AE’s is good, especially if you can find a faction and level of mob that you can KO with just your Alpha-Volley. Wiping out a pack of mobs fast then moving on can be great exp even if the mobs are slightly lower level.

If a pack of mobs is too spread out to effectively AE then you can concentrate them by agroing them then breaking line of sight by going around a corner or over a fence. They will move to re-establish a line of sight to you which should bunch them up nicely.

Quills is a power that some people don’t like, but I really do. It’s damage isn’t world shaking, but it is constant and if you are getting more than 3 mobs in the AE IMHO worth while. I often find that the little hits of Quills damage are the things that KO a mob that would otherwise have hung around with a sliver of HP continuing to attack me or my team mates. It is also important because of the Recharge debuff.

The Spines Recharge Debuff is hard to notice when you solo a lot because you just get use to the speed that mobs attack, but vs anything that you don’t take out immediately it is effective in giving you more time between the mobs slow recharging big damage attacks.

By the time you are hitting mobs with two waves of Spines AE and running Quills over them you will be cutting their Recharge rate way down. This is a particular leveller for Spines Scrappers when fighting Bosses and other mobs that you can’t Alpha-Volley KO. It also slows down how often mobs can use powers like Self Heals, which is particularly of use vs AV’s


Slotting Spines

Generally for any attack I find that an Accuracy Enh is a good investment, then as much damage as you can get. If you are serious about an attack it should get at least 4 slots, and if you weren’t serious about an attack then why did you take it?

For your AE’s you want to hit hard and consistently, one Acc and as many Damage as you can get is my recommendation.

If you consistently fight level+3 or higher mobs then you might want to think about 2 Accuracy Enh in your attacks. IMHO minimising misses is more important than doing a little more damage so you need to slot enough Accuracy Enh to ensure you are always near the max 95% hit chance.

I found that the Range on Impale is exactly the same as many mobs agro range. So any Range Enh in Impale meant that I could get my wind up and throw off before the mob started to react to me rather than having the mob spot me and start to shoot back while I was still winding up. Once I was opening all solo fights with the Build Up and AE Alpha-Volley this became less important, but in early levels it gave me the option to get a solid hit on a mob before they even knew the fight had started.

I think it is useful to have at least one of your faster recharging attacks slotted with an End reducer. No matter how well you set up fights you will get to the situation where you and the last mob are both on a sliver of HP and you are at the bottom of your End bar. When that happens you need an attack that recharges fast and uses little End. For Spines that is going to be Lunge or Barb Swipe slotted with an End reducer.

Quills has a pretty high End cost so I put an End reducer in it too, as well as a Acc and then as many Damage as I could find.


Secondary Powersets.

IMHO most of the Primary and Secondary combos for Scrappers are workable, although some do have small synergies that can give extra tactical options.

Regen. It is often said that Spines is an End hog, if so then maybe teaming it with a powerset that has an End recovery power is good, or maybe teaming it with an End hog Secondary is bad. Spines Recharge Debuff IMHO goes well with Regen. Being attacked less often, especially with a mobs slow recharging big damage attacks has got to be good for Regen.

Super Reflexes. I can’t see any strong synergies between SR and Spines, but they both work as long as you take the powers and slot them reasonably so they should give you a solid combination. Again to a degree the Recharge debuff will help SR as less swings means less chances for you to get snake eyes.

Invulnerability. There is a synergy between Spines and the Invuln power Invincibility. Invincibility makes you harder to hit and more accurate the more mobs are close to you and lots of mobs close to you is where you want to be to maximise your AE’s total damage. Other than that Invuln is a solid Secondary that will work as well for Spines as anything else.

Dark Armour. Well I got to 50 before the changes to DA as well and it is just looking better and better to me. Overall I would say that DA is still going to be a tricky powerset to use. If you like tricky then it might be for you. If you want simple and straight forward then maybe choose something else.

Many of DA’s AE effects can work well with Spines.
If you are going for an AE strategy then why not go the whole hog. Death Shroud can add significant damage particularly in the Alpha-Volley phase when Build Up is active and will double up with Quills to finish off mobs left with a sliver of HP.
Cloak of Darkness can get you closer to the mobs before they agro on you, generally close enough that you will get Throw Spines off before they agro on you.
Oppressive Gloom nullifies any minions within range and IMHO works particularly well with Spines as if mobs with a ranged attack (ie nearly all of them) are agroed with Throw Spines they will start to use their ranged attack and then fall into the Op Gloom field, becoming stunned in a standing attacking pose rather than a walking pose, which seems to limit the annoying stunned wander effect.


Pool Powers.

Nothing is necessary, but Hasten is good.

If you are pursuing an AE Alpha-Volley strategy then you want Build Up and your AE’s recharged fast so you can use them often. Hasten is IMHO the best way to do that. You could slot a couple of Recharge reducers in each of the AE’s, but that would lower the damage resulting in less effective Alpha-Volleys. If Hasten had a prerequisite then I might not recommend it, but if you have a power pool free it is IMHO hard to go past.

Spines has no more need for Stamina than any other powerset. If you find you need Stamina for your other characters then you will probably want it for your Spines Scrapper.


APP’s

This is mostly based on pure conjecture. I have tried the Darkness Mastery on test and was very happy with it. Also written with a slight emphasis on Spines DA.

I think that levelling from 41 to 50 with APP’s is going to be much more interesting and easier than it use to be as the APP’s give you a lot more interesting choices than the regular PP’s that we previously had to fill the 41 to 49 power slots.

-Body Mastery:
*Conserve Power: self, endurance discount
*Focused Accuracy: toggle: self +acc
**Laser Beam Eyes: ranged, moderate dmg (energy), foe -def
***Energy Torrent : ranged (cone), minor dmg (smash/energy), foe knockdown

-Darkness Mastery:
*Petrifying Gaze: ranged, foe hold
*Torrent: ranged (cone), minor dmg (negative), foe knockback, -acc
**Dark Blast: ranged, moderate dmg (negative), foe -acc
***Tenebrous Tentacles: ranged (cone), moderate dmg (smash/negative), foe immobilize, -acc

-Weapon Mastery:
*Web Grenade: ranged, foe immobilize, -fly, -recharge
*Caltrops: Melee (location AoE), minor DoT (lethal), foe -spd
**Shuriken: ranged, minor dmg (lethal)
***Exploding Shuriken: ranged (targeted AoE), moderate dmg (lethal)


I think each APP offers something to the Spines Scrapper.

Body Mastery’s best offers are IMHO Conserve Energy and Energy Torrent
Conserve Energy reduces End costs to practically bugger all for 90 seconds and with 6 Recharge reducers and Hasten I think has a recharge of 162 seconds.
Energy Torrents Knock Down will be a useful set up for Throw Spines and Spine Burst or to disrupt a pack of mobs while you wait for your AE’s to recharge.

Body Mastery’s powers will require some slotting.
If you want to use Conserve Energy as a regular tactic then you will need to slot a lot of Recharge reducers in it.
Focus Accuracy, by reports, uses a huge amount of End so 3 End reducers are probably not too much.
Laser Eye Beams like any attack to get decent performance requires slotting, I try to get at least 4 slots in any attack I want to use seriously. And if you aren’t serious about an attack why take it.
Energy Torrent. Well one reason is that you might be using the attack for it’s secondary effects. If you are using Energy Torrent mainly for the Knock Down I’d still go for an Acc and a Cone Range Enh.

Darkness Mastery is the only APP I have tried out on test. Petrifying Gaze and Tenebrous Tentacles look good as does Torrent and Dark Blast is a solid dependable attack that fitted straight into my single target attack cycle.
Petrifying Gaze will let you Hold a single Minion or LT. This can remove a seriously annoying mob like a Sapper from the fight. For DA scrapper it can also reduce the variety of damage types you might be facing, possibly allowing you to drop one Shield.
Tenebrous Tentacles is a Moderate Damage Cone, with an Acc Debuff and Immobilise, all good. TT, Throw Spines and Spine Burst then stand around while the TT DoT, Quills and Death Shroud finishes the Immobilised OpGloomed non responding mobs off, sounds like a tactic to me and TT has a very cool graphic.
Torrent not quite as useful as Energy Torrent as it Knocks Back rather than Down, but you could use it to sweep mobs up against a wall for maximum AE carnage.

Darkness Mastery will require some slotting.
Petrifying Gaze has a much shorter duration and longer recharge than the Defender version. If you want to get any Hold on a Boss you will have to slot very heavily. IMHO it is probably worth 2 or 3, I will be going for an Acc and two Hold durations.
Torrent’s low damage makes it a poor choice for slotting Damage Enh. If you are going for the Knock Back effect an Acc and a Cone Range are probably worth while, that’s about it.
Dark Blast slot like any other attack you would take.
Tenebrous Tentacles I’d give at least an Acc and a Cone Range Enh. It’s Moderate Damage should give you a decent return for Damage Enh if you can spare the slots.

Weapon Mastery’s Exploding Shuriken is probably it’s pick for Spines, although Caltrops can be useful too.
Exploding Shuriken is a Moderate Damage AE. Another AE attack to add to your Alpha-Volley, excellent.
Caltrops, well there is a reason they are still used. Drop it on some mobs they will be slowed and will spend some time trying to get off the Caltrops. The damage is a bonus. Also a power likely to have a good synergy with Op Gloom.

Weapon Mastery’s attacks will require slotting.
Web Grenade is pretty good right out of the box. Slot an Acc in the slot it comes with, nothing else about it is really worth Enhancing.
Caltrops also are pretty good as is. I’d go for Slow over Damage as the Damage is small and if you Slow them more the mobs will stay in the AE longer.
Shuriken, low damage won’t give you a good return for slots, put an Acc in the slot it comes with and leave it.
Exploding Shuriken, if you have taken this then you should be pursuing an AE Alpha-Volley strategy, so slot it up for all it is worth. I’d go an Acc and 3 Damage.


Missions and Teaming.

Spines is good for doing missions solo or in groups.

I missed out on levelling my Spines Scrapper with the Difficulty slider available, but I would probably have gone for only one difficulty increase. More minions are not an issue for Spines when you are going to AE them all.

Warning about the Difficulty slider. If you want to maximise the amount of plot content you see then you will need to not increase the difficulty of your missions. If you get a larger amount of exp for a smaller number of missions then you might outlevel some mission based plot content. If you don’t care about the mission based plot content then go crazy.

IMHO duoing missions can be very good for Scrappers and Spines in particular. You can work well with almost any well played other AT. The Buffs and Debuffs from a Defender or Controller can make an enormous difference. The mob control of a Controller or Tanker can greatly reduce the threat of mobs letting you KO them with a lot less risk. For a Blaster you can play Tanker and let them do the hard work while you take the Alpha Strike that they have difficulty dealing with. And two Scrappers can be a hoot.

As well as benefiting from your partners powers an extra person bumps up the number of mobs without increasing their level giving the Spines Scrapper more AE Alpha-Volley fodder. Try hitting your Find Member button and picking up a loose player. If you do then do some of their missions too, it will make them remember you fondly and get you exp without using up your missions.

In bigger groups Spines Scrappers don’t suffer quite so much from the lack of a role that other Scrappers can. You have more stuff to AE, you just have to be careful about grabbing too much agro.

If you are the only melee in the team then you can do a decent job of Tanking as your AE Alpha-Volley will grab at least the initial agro of most of the mobs. Again this can be good unless it is too much. And the Recharge Debuff provides some protection to all your team mates by slowing the return rate of attacks.


Being Uber, Not.

Most of my Spines levelling career I picked fights with level+0 and level+1 mobs and mostly in missions. Every couple of levels I would look for some packs of +3 and +4 mobs to see where my limits were and to try out new powers and I was always happy with my success rate.

I have no experience soloing monsters or AV’s.

When grouped without being sidekicked and facing a sea of red and purple I did often get KO’ed if I drew too much agro, but I also often got comments about how much damage I was handing out to any horde of mobs that were silly enough to pack around the Tanker.

I have no experience herding large hordes of mobs on the streets or in missions. Occasionally my regular team would gather 2 or 3 packs of mobs inside a mission to clear it more efficiently, but our desire to keep everyone involved stopped us from sitting around waiting for the Tanker to herd up the whole floor before KOing it in a single AE volley. Solo I’d much rather try to get the perfect AE Volley “strike” on a naturally standing pack of mobs than herd them into a dumpster and KO them.

I did have fun with my Spines DA Scrapper all the way to 50, probably not enough to want to do it again, but I do look forward to the Flashback mode that will give me the chance to see how well I go at various levels without a one armed Secondary.


Summary.

Spines is not the prettiest or fastest Scrapper Primary.

It does not do the biggest single target Damage.

It is not always the most End efficient.

However it is very effective and can cause great carnage. You will shine against medium sized packs of mobs and provide good solid output of damage in groups.

There are several guides and faqs regarding Spines and they are all good, definitely worth tracking down in the Scrapper Guides and FAQs thread at the top of the Scrapper Forum or the Guide to Guides in the Guides and FAQs forum.

Regards, Screwloose.
50 Spines DA Scrapper Justice.
“Be the change that you want to see in the world.”

Con is shortened from Consider, which was a term used in a lot of text muds for the process of working out how tough a mob was in relation to your character.

This often wasn't an automatic process, but a skill that you had to use on each mob and not always possessed by all character classes.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

[ QUOTE ]
4. No “Calling Out.”

Do not create threads/posts asking for a Dev or Red Name to address an issue, or respond. Instead, create a well thought out post with a descriptive title. Devs and Red Names read the boards regularly and will see your post. If they have a comment about the issue, they will add it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You might want to rethink this forum rule, especially if you are not going to enforce it.

An unenforced rule just makes people think you are not serious about the other rules and enforcing it will be a nightmare.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

Anyone looking at the tendency of Disorientated mobs to ocassionally skate off at very fast speeds and to still jump over things that are the max height they can jump?

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

[ QUOTE ]
1. DA, Ice Armor, Stone Armor - the f/x are going throug a redo and the powers will be made stackable. I'll tell you when as soon as the schedule is solid.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this was already asked, but re Dark Armour. Is stacking as far as the redo is going or will End costs be tweaked and other issues be loked at?

[ QUOTE ]
2. The changes to Fear are being worked on now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just for Mind Controllers or for all powers that produce a Fear Effect, like Cloak of Fear, as opposed to a panic reaction like Freezing Rain.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

I've seen a friend use that anuimation for an attack, unfortunately I believe it was for the Electricity secondary power Thunder Strike.

I don't think any Super Strength power uses this animation, although I could be wrong my SS Tanker is only 20 and hasn't got a lot of SS attacks yet.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

Very nice guide.

I'll just mention one trick that I thought the "Scrapper formerly know as" might have mentioned.

Cloak of Fear (like all Fear effects) has a To Hit Debuff.

I've only just started using it vs Bosses, who won't run from the fear but seem to get the debuff because it feels like I am being missed a whole lot more.

regards, Screwloose.
36 Spines Dark Armour Scrapper Justice.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

Each of your 5 contacts deals with a different origin type.

If you read the info for each contact you should be able to narrow down which one is going to sell you SO's of your origin and work on getting that Contact to max friendliness.

Note that this availability of nonPower10 Enh from contacts is still being fine tuned on the Testing Server, so it may not be completely bug free on the Live servers and will be undergoing further tweaks.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

If you see a mob you haven't encountered before open the action menu and click on Info.

You will learn something about the mob, maybe something that will effect how you fight it.

regards, Screwloose.
"If everybody is thinking the same, then somebody isn't thinking.

Just to throw my 0.02 Inf in.

I can see why mobs are given powers above there level, but I think two issues have to be considered in doing that.

Firstly it often means that the players have no possibility of having anything that could counter it. Which can be more than mildly frustrating.

Second many players gain enjoyment from working to get cool new powers. It can be a bit disheartening to see a mob using a power on you 15+ levels before you even have the chance to get it.

A sort of related point with Issue #2 and the Hollows zone.

I use to like the gradual introduction of new factions. You worked up from Skulls and Hellions to Lost and Vahz and Outcast and Trolls. Now it all seems a bit jammed together in a muddle. I guess I haven't seen anything in the Hollows that I can't find in Steel or Sky or Boomtown, but from the times I have been in the Hollows the loss of that gradual unveiling has seemed to be missing.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

Okay can't find anything about what chance mobs have to hit players.

There is some info about what chance players have to hit mobs in a Geko thread entitled "More Changed coming to Villain Difficulty" from a fair while ago, maybe that's what I was thinking of.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

[ QUOTE ]
You've just reversed the concept. Floor or cap, its the same thing, you will hit a cap of 95% and you can't have more defense during any given combat situation. Having more defense available just allows you to hit the cap against higher level mobs.

You will never have a defense higher than 95%, and surplus goes to counter debuffs and level differences, this is what a hard cap is. A soft cap is something else.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes thats pretty much it. Defence is a soft cap, based on the chance the mobs you are fighting have to hit you, not a hard cap based on some arbitary figure, like Resistance or Damage.

Chance to be missed is a hard cap, but that's a different thing to Defence, which is a game term with a particular meaning.

[ QUOTE ]
A useful piece of information would be what % of defense and damage change occurs with level differences, I've been asking that question on a couple forums and I havn't gotten a response yet. Does anyone know?

[/ QUOTE ]

I know I have seen the figures you are talking about for the chances for higher level mobs to hit, I think Geko (or maybe Poz) posted them in a thread about the famed purple nurf.

If I can find it i'll post the link.

Regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."