Thoughts of a level 50 Spines Scrapper (Long)

Screwloose · 01-27-2005 02:38 PM

Spines can be a fun and effective powerset. It is slightly different to other Scrapper powersets in that the strength of its AE attacks make it more effective against larger numbers of minions than powerful single targets, but not so much so that it is ineffective vs single targets.

Spines got me to level 50 in a reasonable time while soloing a fair bit, doing lots of missions, story arcs and task forces and contributing to any team I was in. Most importantly IMHO it was also fun.

The following is a bit of a ramble and all MHO, but might hopefully give some people some ideas as to how to give Spines a go.

Caveat.

This ramble is written from my experience of what worked for me. Just because it got me to level 50 doesnt mean that what worked for me will work for you. And even if it does maybe it wont be fun for you.

Your own experience is always a better indicator of what will work for you than what some bizarrely named anonymous person on an internet forum writes.

Primary Powers.

All the Spines powers are good. Okay a couple might not be quite so good, but generally you cant go too wrong taking a lot of the Spines powers.

A quick word on the two less good Spines Powers.

Confront. The new Scrapper Taunt. I didnt take it when it was the old Scrapper Taunt and I dont intend to take it in my /respec build because I didnt want to play that sort of Scrapper, but if you do then it works fine.

Barb Swipe is odd and most people avoid it. I think that there is a place for Barb Swipe in a Spines build that relies almost totally on AE. If you have Barb Swipe then any other single target attack makes a nearly complete attack cycle that you can use to fill in time while you wait for your AEs to recharge. Since you are using a bare minimum of single target attacks you have more slots to throw into other things, but it seems a pretty marginal tactic to me.

After that your attacks fall into two camps. Your single target attack cycle and your AE Alpha-Volley.

You need a solid single target attack cycle. Your AEs cost too much End to use vs single targets and take too long to recharge. Early on Brawl, Lunge and Impale will do a decent job. Add Ripper in later and you should be able to keep a reasonably constant cycle of attacks going. Dont be concerned that your damage may seem low or slow because hopefully you will be attacking mobs that have already taken a large chunk of damage from

Your AE Alpha-Volley. This is basically everything AE you have at maximum overload. Eventually it will be Throw Spines, Spine Burst and Quills with Build Up. You want to maximise your consistent damage with the Alpha-Volley so slot an Acc then as many Damage Enh as you can in your AEs. Vs non-Resistant level+0 minions an Alpha-Volley well slotted with SOs should KO every minion you get in the AEs.

You can maximise your AE damage on a normal pack of mobs in their initial standing position by carefully choosing you line of approach and by queuing your attacks.

Try to pick a mob on the far side of the pack with equal number on either side of the line between you and the targeted mob. Close in to a comfortable distance just outside agro range. Hit Build Up, Follow and queue Throw Spines. You will fire Throw Spines at the maximum range and if you have the furthest mob targeted you should cover most of the pack of mobs. As soon as you see the Throw Spines fire off hit Spine Burst. This should get Spine Burst to go off just before you get to the target mob, again getting a good proportion of the pack in the AE. Hopefully that will leave you with either a pack of KOed mobs or give you just a little clean up to do. As they say in the classics, Practise well.

It costs the same End to AE one mob as it does to AE ten mobs, so if you can survive the return fire getting more mobs into your AEs is good, especially if you can find a faction and level of mob that you can KO with just your Alpha-Volley. Wiping out a pack of mobs fast then moving on can be great exp even if the mobs are slightly lower level.

If a pack of mobs is too spread out to effectively AE then you can concentrate them by agroing them then breaking line of sight by going around a corner or over a fence. They will move to re-establish a line of sight to you which should bunch them up nicely.

Quills is a power that some people dont like, but I really do. Its damage isnt world shaking, but it is constant and if you are getting more than 3 mobs in the AE IMHO worth while. I often find that the little hits of Quills damage are the things that KO a mob that would otherwise have hung around with a sliver of HP continuing to attack me or my team mates. It is also important because of the Recharge debuff.

The Spines Recharge Debuff is hard to notice when you solo a lot because you just get use to the speed that mobs attack, but vs anything that you dont take out immediately it is effective in giving you more time between the mobs slow recharging big damage attacks.

By the time you are hitting mobs with two waves of Spines AE and running Quills over them you will be cutting their Recharge rate way down. This is a particular leveller for Spines Scrappers when fighting Bosses and other mobs that you cant Alpha-Volley KO. It also slows down how often mobs can use powers like Self Heals, which is particularly of use vs AVs

Slotting Spines

Generally for any attack I find that an Accuracy Enh is a good investment, then as much damage as you can get. If you are serious about an attack it should get at least 4 slots, and if you werent serious about an attack then why did you take it?

For your AEs you want to hit hard and consistently, one Acc and as many Damage as you can get is my recommendation.

If you consistently fight level+3 or higher mobs then you might want to think about 2 Accuracy Enh in your attacks. IMHO minimising misses is more important than doing a little more damage so you need to slot enough Accuracy Enh to ensure you are always near the max 95% hit chance.

I found that the Range on Impale is exactly the same as many mobs agro range. So any Range Enh in Impale meant that I could get my wind up and throw off before the mob started to react to me rather than having the mob spot me and start to shoot back while I was still winding up. Once I was opening all solo fights with the Build Up and AE Alpha-Volley this became less important, but in early levels it gave me the option to get a solid hit on a mob before they even knew the fight had started.

I think it is useful to have at least one of your faster recharging attacks slotted with an End reducer. No matter how well you set up fights you will get to the situation where you and the last mob are both on a sliver of HP and you are at the bottom of your End bar. When that happens you need an attack that recharges fast and uses little End. For Spines that is going to be Lunge or Barb Swipe slotted with an End reducer.

Quills has a pretty high End cost so I put an End reducer in it too, as well as a Acc and then as many Damage as I could find.

Secondary Powersets.

IMHO most of the Primary and Secondary combos for Scrappers are workable, although some do have small synergies that can give extra tactical options.

Regen. It is often said that Spines is an End hog, if so then maybe teaming it with a powerset that has an End recovery power is good, or maybe teaming it with an End hog Secondary is bad. Spines Recharge Debuff IMHO goes well with Regen. Being attacked less often, especially with a mobs slow recharging big damage attacks has got to be good for Regen.

Super Reflexes. I cant see any strong synergies between SR and Spines, but they both work as long as you take the powers and slot them reasonably so they should give you a solid combination. Again to a degree the Recharge debuff will help SR as less swings means less chances for you to get snake eyes.

Invulnerability. There is a synergy between Spines and the Invuln power Invincibility. Invincibility makes you harder to hit and more accurate the more mobs are close to you and lots of mobs close to you is where you want to be to maximise your AEs total damage. Other than that Invuln is a solid Secondary that will work as well for Spines as anything else.

Dark Armour. Well I got to 50 before the changes to DA as well and it is just looking better and better to me. Overall I would say that DA is still going to be a tricky powerset to use. If you like tricky then it might be for you. If you want simple and straight forward then maybe choose something else.

Many of DAs AE effects can work well with Spines.
If you are going for an AE strategy then why not go the whole hog. Death Shroud can add significant damage particularly in the Alpha-Volley phase when Build Up is active and will double up with Quills to finish off mobs left with a sliver of HP.
Cloak of Darkness can get you closer to the mobs before they agro on you, generally close enough that you will get Throw Spines off before they agro on you.
Oppressive Gloom nullifies any minions within range and IMHO works particularly well with Spines as if mobs with a ranged attack (ie nearly all of them) are agroed with Throw Spines they will start to use their ranged attack and then fall into the Op Gloom field, becoming stunned in a standing attacking pose rather than a walking pose, which seems to limit the annoying stunned wander effect.

Pool Powers.

Nothing is necessary, but Hasten is good.

If you are pursuing an AE Alpha-Volley strategy then you want Build Up and your AEs recharged fast so you can use them often. Hasten is IMHO the best way to do that. You could slot a couple of Recharge reducers in each of the AEs, but that would lower the damage resulting in less effective Alpha-Volleys. If Hasten had a prerequisite then I might not recommend it, but if you have a power pool free it is IMHO hard to go past.

Spines has no more need for Stamina than any other powerset. If you find you need Stamina for your other characters then you will probably want it for your Spines Scrapper.

APPs

This is mostly based on pure conjecture. I have tried the Darkness Mastery on test and was very happy with it. Also written with a slight emphasis on Spines DA.

I think that levelling from 41 to 50 with APPs is going to be much more interesting and easier than it use to be as the APPs give you a lot more interesting choices than the regular PPs that we previously had to fill the 41 to 49 power slots.

-Body Mastery:
*Conserve Power: self, endurance discount
*Focused Accuracy: toggle: self +acc
**Laser Beam Eyes: ranged, moderate dmg (energy), foe -def
***Energy Torrent : ranged (cone), minor dmg (smash/energy), foe knockdown

-Darkness Mastery:
*Petrifying Gaze: ranged, foe hold
*Torrent: ranged (cone), minor dmg (negative), foe knockback, -acc
**Dark Blast: ranged, moderate dmg (negative), foe -acc
***Tenebrous Tentacles: ranged (cone), moderate dmg (smash/negative), foe immobilize, -acc

-Weapon Mastery:
*Web Grenade: ranged, foe immobilize, -fly, -recharge
*Caltrops: Melee (location AoE), minor DoT (lethal), foe -spd
**Shuriken: ranged, minor dmg (lethal)
***Exploding Shuriken: ranged (targeted AoE), moderate dmg (lethal)

I think each APP offers something to the Spines Scrapper.

Body Masterys best offers are IMHO Conserve Energy and Energy Torrent
Conserve Energy reduces End costs to practically bugger all for 90 seconds and with 6 Recharge reducers and Hasten I think has a recharge of 162 seconds.
Energy Torrents Knock Down will be a useful set up for Throw Spines and Spine Burst or to disrupt a pack of mobs while you wait for your AEs to recharge.

Body Masterys powers will require some slotting.
If you want to use Conserve Energy as a regular tactic then you will need to slot a lot of Recharge reducers in it.
Focus Accuracy, by reports, uses a huge amount of End so 3 End reducers are probably not too much.
Laser Eye Beams like any attack to get decent performance requires slotting, I try to get at least 4 slots in any attack I want to use seriously. And if you arent serious about an attack why take it.
Energy Torrent. Well one reason is that you might be using the attack for its secondary effects. If you are using Energy Torrent mainly for the Knock Down Id still go for an Acc and a Cone Range Enh.

Darkness Mastery is the only APP I have tried out on test. Petrifying Gaze and Tenebrous Tentacles look good as does Torrent and Dark Blast is a solid dependable attack that fitted straight into my single target attack cycle.
Petrifying Gaze will let you Hold a single Minion or LT. This can remove a seriously annoying mob like a Sapper from the fight. For DA scrapper it can also reduce the variety of damage types you might be facing, possibly allowing you to drop one Shield.
Tenebrous Tentacles is a Moderate Damage Cone, with an Acc Debuff and Immobilise, all good. TT, Throw Spines and Spine Burst then stand around while the TT DoT, Quills and Death Shroud finishes the Immobilised OpGloomed non responding mobs off, sounds like a tactic to me and TT has a very cool graphic.
Torrent not quite as useful as Energy Torrent as it Knocks Back rather than Down, but you could use it to sweep mobs up against a wall for maximum AE carnage.

Darkness Mastery will require some slotting.
Petrifying Gaze has a much shorter duration and longer recharge than the Defender version. If you want to get any Hold on a Boss you will have to slot very heavily. IMHO it is probably worth 2 or 3, I will be going for an Acc and two Hold durations.
Torrents low damage makes it a poor choice for slotting Damage Enh. If you are going for the Knock Back effect an Acc and a Cone Range are probably worth while, thats about it.
Dark Blast slot like any other attack you would take.
Tenebrous Tentacles Id give at least an Acc and a Cone Range Enh. Its Moderate Damage should give you a decent return for Damage Enh if you can spare the slots.

Weapon Masterys Exploding Shuriken is probably its pick for Spines, although Caltrops can be useful too.
Exploding Shuriken is a Moderate Damage AE. Another AE attack to add to your Alpha-Volley, excellent.
Caltrops, well there is a reason they are still used. Drop it on some mobs they will be slowed and will spend some time trying to get off the Caltrops. The damage is a bonus. Also a power likely to have a good synergy with Op Gloom.

Weapon Masterys attacks will require slotting.
Web Grenade is pretty good right out of the box. Slot an Acc in the slot it comes with, nothing else about it is really worth Enhancing.
Caltrops also are pretty good as is. Id go for Slow over Damage as the Damage is small and if you Slow them more the mobs will stay in the AE longer.
Shuriken, low damage wont give you a good return for slots, put an Acc in the slot it comes with and leave it.
Exploding Shuriken, if you have taken this then you should be pursuing an AE Alpha-Volley strategy, so slot it up for all it is worth. Id go an Acc and 3 Damage.

Missions and Teaming.

Spines is good for doing missions solo or in groups.

I missed out on levelling my Spines Scrapper with the Difficulty slider available, but I would probably have gone for only one difficulty increase. More minions are not an issue for Spines when you are going to AE them all.

Warning about the Difficulty slider. If you want to maximise the amount of plot content you see then you will need to not increase the difficulty of your missions. If you get a larger amount of exp for a smaller number of missions then you might outlevel some mission based plot content. If you dont care about the mission based plot content then go crazy.

IMHO duoing missions can be very good for Scrappers and Spines in particular. You can work well with almost any well played other AT. The Buffs and Debuffs from a Defender or Controller can make an enormous difference. The mob control of a Controller or Tanker can greatly reduce the threat of mobs letting you KO them with a lot less risk. For a Blaster you can play Tanker and let them do the hard work while you take the Alpha Strike that they have difficulty dealing with. And two Scrappers can be a hoot.

As well as benefiting from your partners powers an extra person bumps up the number of mobs without increasing their level giving the Spines Scrapper more AE Alpha-Volley fodder. Try hitting your Find Member button and picking up a loose player. If you do then do some of their missions too, it will make them remember you fondly and get you exp without using up your missions.

In bigger groups Spines Scrappers dont suffer quite so much from the lack of a role that other Scrappers can. You have more stuff to AE, you just have to be careful about grabbing too much agro.

If you are the only melee in the team then you can do a decent job of Tanking as your AE Alpha-Volley will grab at least the initial agro of most of the mobs. Again this can be good unless it is too much. And the Recharge Debuff provides some protection to all your team mates by slowing the return rate of attacks.

Being Uber, Not.

Most of my Spines levelling career I picked fights with level+0 and level+1 mobs and mostly in missions. Every couple of levels I would look for some packs of +3 and +4 mobs to see where my limits were and to try out new powers and I was always happy with my success rate.

I have no experience soloing monsters or AVs.

When grouped without being sidekicked and facing a sea of red and purple I did often get KOed if I drew too much agro, but I also often got comments about how much damage I was handing out to any horde of mobs that were silly enough to pack around the Tanker.

I have no experience herding large hordes of mobs on the streets or in missions. Occasionally my regular team would gather 2 or 3 packs of mobs inside a mission to clear it more efficiently, but our desire to keep everyone involved stopped us from sitting around waiting for the Tanker to herd up the whole floor before KOing it in a single AE volley. Solo Id much rather try to get the perfect AE Volley strike on a naturally standing pack of mobs than herd them into a dumpster and KO them.

I did have fun with my Spines DA Scrapper all the way to 50, probably not enough to want to do it again, but I do look forward to the Flashback mode that will give me the chance to see how well I go at various levels without a one armed Secondary.

Summary.

Spines is not the prettiest or fastest Scrapper Primary.

It does not do the biggest single target Damage.

It is not always the most End efficient.

However it is very effective and can cause great carnage. You will shine against medium sized packs of mobs and provide good solid output of damage in groups.

There are several guides and faqs regarding Spines and they are all good, definitely worth tracking down in the Scrapper Guides and FAQs thread at the top of the Scrapper Forum or the Guide to Guides in the Guides and FAQs forum.

Regards, Screwloose.
50 Spines DA Scrapper Justice.
Be the change that you want to see in the world.

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Screwloose · 01-27-2005 02:41 PM

I hadnt wanted to really concentrate on builds in my ramble, but I get PMs every so often asking me what powers I took, so here is some more about that.

Screwloose the pre I3 build that I took to level 50.

Archetype: Scrapper
Primary Powers - Melee : Spines
Secondary Powers - Defense : Dark Armor
Slot[01] Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Lunge /Acc, End, 4xDam
Slot[02] Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Dark Embrace /End, 5xRes
Slot[03] Level 2 : Death Shroud /Acc, End, 4xDam
Slot[04] Level 4 : Spine Burst /Acc, 5xDam
Slot[05] Level 6 : Hasten /6xRecharge
Slot[06] Level 8 : Build Up /2xRecharge
Slot[07] Level 10 : Impale /Acc, Range, End, 3xDam
Slot[08] Level 12 : Obsidian Shield /End, 5xRes
Slot[09] Level 14 : Super Speed /Run
Slot[10] Level 16 : Hurdle /Leap
Slot[11] Level 18 : Health /Heal
Slot[12] Level 20 : Stamina /6xEnd Recovery
Slot[13] Level 22 : Quills /Acc, End, 3xDam
Slot[14] Level 24 : Dark Regeneration /Acc, 2xEnd
Slot[15] Level 26 : Cloak Of Darkness /End, 4xDef Buff
Slot[16] Level 28 : Ripper /Acc, End, 4xDam
Slot[17] Level 30 : Cloak Of Fear /Acc, End, 3xTo Hit Debuff
Slot[18] Level 32 : Throw Spines /Acc, 5xDam
Slot[19] Level 35 : Oppressive Gloom /Acc, Disorient
Slot[20] Level 38 : Whirlwind /End
Slot[21] Level 41 : Recall Friend /Empty
Slot[22] Level 44 : Teleport /End
Slot[23] Level 47 : Swift /Run
Slot[24] Level 49 : Teleport Foe /Empty
Slot[25] Level 1 : Brawl /Dam
Slot[26] Level 1 : Sprint-Prestige /Leap
Slot[27] Level 2 : Rest /Recharge

My goal after I had chosen Spines and Dark Armour was to see how well they worked with a minimum of Power Pool reinforcement.

I liked the look of all the Spines powers, except Taunt (now Confront) as I didnt want to be that sort of Scrapper, and I decided that I could probably do without one of Barb Swipe or Lunge.

All the Dark Armour powers looked pretty useful too. Except that I decided changing between 3 non stacking shields would probably be a pain, so I would drop Murky Cloud and just live with the pain of that decision. Soul Transfer also was never in my plan as I dislike self rez powers.

I had a pretty tough time of it from levels 20 to 30. After level 20 I found it not worth while to turn off ObShield as there was so often some minion that would have a chance to Stun me taking down all my toggles. Shortly after taking Cloak of Fear I noticed someone posting about the strength of its To Hit debuff and gave it a go, after one mission it had become the foundation of my tactics vs Bosses.

Once I got OpGloom I hardly ever turned it off and is made my life much easier, nullifying a huge proportion of the minions that I faced after that.

My power selection after 35 was pretty much just filler powers. By that time we had some indication that the APP were coming so I didnt want to take anything that I would like so much it would be hard to drop, and I still wanted to see how well Dark Armour could protect me without something like the Fighting pool.

It also probably helped me because I didnt put any slots into those powers so my earlier powers became very heavily slotted, something I wouldnt be able to do once I was taking APP powers at 41+.

As it was I enjoyed TPort and Swift so much that I decided to drop Superspeed and Hurdle and change to TPort as my movement power.

Screwloose post I3 respec, with Stacking Shields and Darkness Mastery APP.

Archetype: Scrapper
Primary Powers - Melee : Spines
Secondary Powers - Defense : Dark Armor
Slot[01] Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Lunge /Acc, End, 2xDam
Slot[02] Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Dark Embrace /End, 5xRes
Slot[03] Level 2 : Spine Burst /Acc, 5xDam
Slot[04] Level 4 : Death Shroud /Acc, End, 4xDam
Slot[05] Level 6 : Build Up /Recharge
Slot[06] Level 8 : Hasten /6xRecharge
Slot[07] Level 10 : Impale /Acc, 3xDam
Slot[08] Level 12 : Recall Friend /Recharge
Slot[09] Level 14 : Teleport /End
Slot[10] Level 16 : Obsidian Shield /End, 4xRes
Slot[11] Level 18 : Swift /Run
Slot[12] Level 20 : Quills /Acc, End, 2xDam
Slot[13] Level 22 : Health /Heal
Slot[14] Level 24 : Dark Regeneration /Acc, 2xEnd
Slot[15] Level 26 : Stamina /6xEnd Recovery
Slot[16] Level 28 : Ripper /Acc, 4xDam
Slot[17] Level 30 : Cloak Of Darkness /End, 3xDef Buff
Slot[18] Level 32 : Throw Spines /Acc, 5xDam
Slot[19] Level 35 : Cloak Of Fear /Acc, End, 3xTo Hit Debuff
Slot[20] Level 38 : Oppressive Gloom /Acc, Disorient
Slot[21] Level 41 : Murky Cloud /End, 4xRes
Slot[22] Level 44 : Petrifying Gaze /Acc, 2xHold
Slot[23] Level 47 : Dark Blast /Acc, End, 2x Dam
Slot[24] Level 49 : Tenebrous Tentacles /Acc, Cone Range
Slot[25] Level 1 : Brawl /Dam
Slot[26] Level 1 : Sprint-Prestige /Leap
Slot[27] Level 2 : Rest /Recharge

This is a respect build from 50 so order of the powers is less important, until I am Exemplaring.

Trying to get Hasten, a movement power and Stamina all in early does push back powers that I would like to take as soon as they are available. I would like to be able to do without Stamina, as I have on some other characters, but even I cant avoid the end issues with Spines Dark Armour.

Regards, Screwloose.
50 Spines DA Scrapper Justice.
I am not young enough to know everything.

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Powerbernie · 02-04-2005 01:24 AM

Heh - nice guide. Lotsa nice information.
Just dinged 38 and got Ustop. Now im looking forward to the EPPs. Think i will go for EShuriken, guess i will be an AOE Monster.

One Question:
Most ppl advice against Stealth on Spiners. I myself made very good experience with it as it does not impact aggro itself but only the aggro range. So all mobs near enough to be in my SB range, get aggroed while those more far away dont notice me (Thats very nice for postI3 Inv scrappers as i dont want them to use ranged guns on me - but its prolly bad for herding guys).

Do you see any synergy with open PPs to Spines in general?
(I agree on Hasten and Stamina being nearly mandatory for a AOE monster).

As i went Leaping (Superjump) i have chossen JumpKick instead of the more popular CJ. Imo a heavily underrated attack. It offers KB at 100% - this means, when i cycle it with Ripper under PermaHasten i can keep a strong boss on his butt 50% of the time in average - a very nice addition to our SpineSet which misses CC options like KB. Your opinion on that?

Screwloose · 02-04-2005 01:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Heh - nice guide. Lotsa nice information.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ta

[ QUOTE ]
Just dinged 38 and got Ustop. Now im looking forward to the EPPs. Think i will go for EShuriken, guess i will be an AOE Monster.

[/ QUOTE ]

Weapons seems to be the least popular EPP, but I think the EShuriken on top of the rest of your AE will be pretty nasty. One thing I did have wrong for a while was that you can get the top EPP power at level 47, like any other PP you only need two prereqs for the top power and you can take those at 41 and 44. The trick will be getting everything else you want in before 41.

[ QUOTE ]
One Question:
Most ppl advice against Stealth on Spiners. I myself made very good experience with it as it does not impact aggro itself but only the aggro range. So all mobs near enough to be in my SB range, get aggroed while those more far away dont notice me (Thats very nice for postI3 Inv scrappers as i dont want them to use ranged guns on me - but its prolly bad for herding guys).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like Herding anyway so it never bothered me. I think Stealth is fine. As you say you are going to damage agro everything nearby, especially with Throw Spines so that is not so much of a problem. I have found that some players, even ones I play with often, forget that the mobs can't see me and move so close they agro stuff further back, but they tend to work it out after a couple of times.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you see any synergy with open PPs to Spines in general?
(I agree on Hasten and Stamina being nearly mandatory for a AOE monster).

[/ QUOTE ]

I wish Stamina was less useful (% . I don't find myself needing it on my ofhte AT's maybe it is just that Scrappers feel more Scrapperish as little dynamos of action.

Hasten is good for just about any character, if it needed a Pre Req then I would say it might be a harder decision, but if you have a PP choice open then it is very hard to go past.

[ QUOTE ]
As i went Leaping (Superjump) i have chossen JumpKick instead of the more popular CJ. Imo a heavily underrated attack. It offers KB at 100% - this means, when i cycle it with Ripper under PermaHasten i can keep a strong boss on his butt 50% of the time in average - a very nice addition to our SpineSet which misses CC options like KB. Your opinion on that?

[/ QUOTE ]

If it works do it (% .

Generally I have a fairly vanilla design style for any AT, I take a lot the Primary and Secondary and few PPs. If I can't see 7 powers I want in a Primary or Secondary then I don't take it.

For the most part IMHO PP attacks are overall less effective than Powerset ones, however as you say where it gives you an effect that your Powerset doesn't have then it can give you some very effective combat options.

And that certainly is one of the reasons to take something form a PP, if it gives you some option or capability that makes you play more fun that you couldn't get from your Primary or Secondary.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

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Xandier · 09-06-2005 08:51 PM

Body Mastery:
*Conserve Power: self, endurance discount
*Focused Accuracy: toggle: self +acc

If you take Focused ACCY,then can you get away with 6 slotting your attacks with all damage? Or should you continue to have at least 1 AACY in your attacks as well?

A bunch of 50s and too many alts...
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Xandier · 09-06-2005 09:01 PM

And one more thing....is Acrobatics the best knockup/knockback protection? I've read where a lot of scrappers are gonna go with Hover/Fly......but it seems to me that CJ/SJ/Acrobatics would offer more defense and better resisitance as you do a "backflip" even if you have Hover or Fly activated.

A bunch of 50s and too many alts...
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Questions about Fire/Rad? Just ask!

Screwloose · 09-06-2005 09:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Body Mastery:
*Focused Accuracy: toggle: self +acc

If you take Focused ACCY,then can you get away with 6 slotting your attacks with all damage? Or should you continue to have at least 1 AACY in your attacks as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much. FA provides about an SO's worth of Acc, which is fine for fighting up to level+1 and maybe level+2 mobs. If you fight mostly level+3 or more then 2 SO's worth of Acc would be worth while, which you can get from slotting 3 To Hit buff Enh in FA.

I would consider slotting several single target attacks with an End reduycer as well. Running a continuous attack cycle is a major drain on End, so slotting End reducers in your attacks is a good way to cut End costs.

[ QUOTE ]
And one more thing....is Acrobatics the best knockup/knockback protection? I've read where a lot of scrappers are gonna go with Hover/Fly......but it seems to me that CJ/SJ/Acrobatics would offer more defense and better resisitance as you do a "backflip" even if you have Hover or Fly activated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless you are Dark Armor your Secondary Powerset Status protection power has the best protection vs KnockBack/Down.

If you are DA then you have to look at Acrobatics or Hover, or just live with KnockBack/Down.

Acrobatics can be overloaded where Hover can't and the other reason to get Combat Jumping was the Immobilise resist, which you now get in Cloak of Darkness.

The Hover "backflip" cuts the effect of KB/D by about 90% so it is good cheap easily available mitigation if you have a power pool choice unused.

I think many DA Scrappers will still go Leaping as it gets you fast movement with a vertical component and the option to get KB/D protection all in a single power pool.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

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Dr_Robert · 09-24-2005 10:51 AM

Just dropping this in my favorites. Thanks for all your hard work.

Dr. Rob

Alexina · 09-25-2005 11:06 AM

Great guide, I play a Spine/Invuln in addition to my Dark/Dark. I've found the Body pool useful for both.

For my Dark/Dark, I went with Conserve Power (6 Slots Recharge), and as the Dark Armor self rez now seems to work 100% of the time in i5, I've been testing that as my 49 power.

For my upcoming Spine/Invuln, I'm planning:

01 : Resist Physical Damage damres(01) damres(11) damres(15) damres(9)
01 : Lunge dam(01) dam(11) dam(13) dam(15) dam(39) dam(46)
02 : Temp Invulnerability damres(02) damres(3) damres(3)
04 : Spine Burst dam(04) dam(5) dam(5) dam(7) dam(7) dam(9)
06 : Build Up thtbuf(06) recred(37)
08 : Dull Pain hel(08) hel(13)
10 : Swift runspd(10)
12 : Combat Jumping defbuf(12)
14 : Super Jump jmp(14)
16 : Unyielding damres(16) damres(17) damres(17) damres(19) damres(19) damres(23)
18 : Health hel(18)
20 : Stamina endrec(20) endrec(21) endrec(21) endrec(23) endrec(25) endrec(25)
22 : Impale dam(22) dam(40) dam(40) dam(40) dam(45) dam(46)
24 : Resist Elements damres(24) damres(27) damres(39)
26 : Ripper dam(26) dam(27) dam(34) dam(43) dam(45) dam(45)
28 : Invincibility defbuf(28) defbuf(29) defbuf(29) defbuf(31) defbuf(31) defbuf(31)
30 : Resist Energies damres(30) damres(33) damres(39)
32 : Throw Spines dam(32) dam(33) dam(33) dam(34) dam(34) dam(37)
35 : Hasten recred(35) recred(36) recred(36) recred(36) recred(37)
38 : Quills endred(38) dam(46) dam(48) dam(48)
41 : Focused Accuracy endred(41) endred(42) endred(42) endred(42) thtbuf(43) thtbuf(43)
44 : Conserve Power recred(44) recred(48)
47 : Energy Torrent kbkdis(47)
49 : Unstoppable damres(49) damres(50) damres(50) damres(50)

-------------------------------------------

01 : Brawl dam(01)
01 : Sprint runspd(01)
02 : Rest recred(02)

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Screwloose · 09-25-2005 04:07 PM

Looks pretty good.

I would 6 slot TempInvuln before I put any slots in RPD, you get a much bigger return in Res from the toggle.

I would not slot Build Up with a To Hit Buff, anything that you need more than the Base To Hit Buff to hit is going to be so much higher level than you that you aren't going to do it any damage any way.

I might want to move the slots around to try to get a few more in the attacks earlier. With the general reduction in the effectiveness of Scrapper secondaries the best way to suirvive a fight is to KO the mobs before they can KO you. Your Res and Def just aren't going to keep you up if you can't generate sufficient damage to KO mobs quickly.

Otherwise it looks pretty solid.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

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Alexina · 09-26-2005 02:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Looks pretty good.

I would 6 slot TempInvuln before I put any slots in RPD, you get a much bigger return in Res from the toggle.

I would not slot Build Up with a To Hit Buff, anything that you need more than the Base To Hit Buff to hit is going to be so much higher level than you that you aren't going to do it any damage any way.

I might want to move the slots around to try to get a few more in the attacks earlier. With the general reduction in the effectiveness of Scrapper secondaries the best way to suirvive a fight is to KO the mobs before they can KO you. Your Res and Def just aren't going to keep you up if you can't generate sufficient damage to KO mobs quickly.

Otherwise it looks pretty solid.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, I moved the slots from RPD to Temp Invuln, and I played with the slots a bit to get a few of the attacks in earlier.

Great guide btw!

Koyote_elnegro · 09-27-2005 01:53 AM

Hello screwloose

I pla a spine/dark scrapper as well. I was gone fro the game for a while an am recently coming back.

I am getting killd from kb cause it takes me out of spine burst range and also dark regen range , so i have to get acrobaticks, problem is i have super speed i find the ss with cloak of dark is almost perfect invis(great for stealthing a mish). this catch 22 here now gives me 2 travel powers so i have to pass on ripper, as well as the last 3 shields.

will just taking hover keep me close enough to mobs to live or am i missing some thing( i am still amazed shields stack god this is heaven)

thanks in advance

Gaean_Conspiracy · 09-27-2005 07:15 AM

3-5 slotted hover makes a great combination with Super Speed. I have a lvl 45 DM/DA and I love that combo on her. I use Cloak of Shadows and SS to sneak around and switch to hover for attacks to deal with knock back and combat maneuverability.

One caveat is that Knives of Artemis can stack enough immobilizes and -flights on you to cut Hover and CoS which will lock you down and make break the knockback defense of Hover.

The choice between Acrobatics or Hover is primarily based on whether you can afford to spend more powers (Acro) or more slots (Hover).

Koyote_elnegro · 09-27-2005 01:12 PM

wow thanks so I could go with hover and save those 3 slots and get a few more attacks /shields thanks

Screwloose · 09-27-2005 03:23 PM

Shai basically nailed it, if you don't want to use Leaping as your movement power then Hover is cheap on power choices, but will cost you a few extra slots to get a decent combat movement. It won't work against everything, but it is pretty good in 80%+ of circumstances.

Check out Romances Spines DA guide and my Dark Armor Overview for Issue 5 (links in the Scrapper guides and faqs thread) for more DA and Spines DA info.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

How to Look Stuff Up Yourself - It's Fun and Easy
Looking for Powers Numbers try City of Data.
For Fraks sake read the Guides and FAQs
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Koyote_elnegro · 09-27-2005 05:53 PM

thank again all thid helps so much now i just have to do a respect.

so 3 slots is ok? and this is for def slottig or flight speed?

jetka · 11-19-2006 04:29 PM

I think its a great guide. Im relativley new to this game, however, so please do not make fun of this next question. How do you get APPs? Are they just pool powers or something else?

Screwloose · 11-19-2006 04:36 PM

APPs are like Power Pools that you can only take at level 41 and higher.

If you check the guide to guides thread in the Player Guide forum you will probably find a guide to APPs in general and there is a link to a short overview of Scrapper APPs by me in the Scrapper guides and faqs thead.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

How to Look Stuff Up Yourself - It's Fun and Easy
Looking for Powers Numbers try City of Data.
For Fraks sake read the Guides and FAQs
Global Chat Channels - Australia

Naaman_NA · 11-19-2006 05:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Super Reflexes. I cant see any strong synergies between SR and Spines, but they both work as long as you take the powers and slot them reasonably so they should give you a solid combination. Again to a degree the Recharge debuff will help SR as less swings means less chances for you to get snake eyes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Having just read this (how slow am I ) and levelled a Spines\SR to 50 I'd say the synergy comes when avoiding a mobs Alpha when you wade in on full AE mode - although,as with DA, there's a lot of toggles to play with so the need for stamina increases

SM4SH3R · 07-06-2007 06:35 AM

This is an amazing guide. Very detailed yet still to the point. For some reason there are many guides out there that don't discuss epic powers. I can't thank you enough for running through them! I like Spines/DA so far, I've got a lvl 14 on Justice and I've followed this guide so far.