Dark Armor: Scary Scraptroller Template (Fear)

The_GhostCaT · 01-14-2005 01:22 PM

With the Dark Armor and fear changes I have been experimenting with my DA toon.

Originally I created this build after issue #3 to see if I could get out of the fighting line before stacking armors came to be. At its heart it is a Cloak of Fear/Cloak of Darkness build. What I found was a very fun way to build a scraptroller using Cloak of fear as the base for stacked fear effects. I have had so much fun with this build, and as it might appeal to others as well: I want to post the template for making it work. The cool thing is the template would work with almost any primary set so its a: */DA presence pool fear template.

First off, the template:

Primary Set: Anything

Some will probably work better than others for various reasons, but Im BS/DA so anything will work . One thing to remember is you wont be able to take a lot of your primary powers, so I find that an efficient hasten plus few attacks type build works best.

A special note to Dark Melee users: Touch of Fear may end up being redundant on this build. They accuracy debuff would be very nice, as you can slot it. Im not sure you really gain anything though as your targets will have their accuracy very debuffed already. Intimidate is fairly end efficient, single target, and ranged so it kind of replaces the function of ToF. Dont really know as I dont play dark melee, but this is my guess.

The build obviously doesnt develop until late in the game, but Dark Armor doesnt either. I suggest this as a respec build. Someone working their way up might find a way to work in some elements of it as their build develops, but Im here already and wont be starting a new fear based DA toon.

Secondary Set: Dark Armor

The new and improved DA as of issue #3 makes this all possible.

Dark Embrace, Obsidian Shield & Murky Cloud: You will need all of these soon to be stacking armors. Unfortunately to slot them all they way we would all like to, means you will have to sacrifice slots from other areas. Still, I wouldnt skip any of these armors as they are barley adequate enough as it is. Against even level or +1 foes you often wont feel the need to run any of them but OS. Against higher level foes you will want to run all of them sometimes. I slot mine all out for resistance, but they are under-slotted at level 43 and I feel it.

Death Shroud: I love this power, but had to drop it to make this build work for me. If you have it running with CoF you will not take any more return attacks than you would normally and against a lot of foes DS can do some insane damage. Up to you and your build, but I miss this power a lot. I am running out of slots to make it effective damage again, so I am not sure if it will come back onto my build.

Dark Regeneration: Get it. Slot it. Love it. We take damage, and this build cannot resist as much as some others. This build needs Dark regen. I slot mine with an end redux , accuracy, and recharge redux. Damage usually happens slowly enough with this build for Dark regen to cycle long before it is needed again.

Cloak of Darkness: Get it. Six slot it for defense. Run it all the time.

Cloak of Fear: This is the awesome PBAoE fear-over-time aura, and the power sets defining power IMO. This is a no brainer on this build. Get it and six slot it. Mine is slotted with one accuracy and five to-hit debuffs. This power is what makes this build work. Its great after the fear changes. Plus it looks super-cool.

Oppressive Gloom: This I feel is not necessary on this build. OG is awesome for what it does and end efficient too. The problem is it steps all over how the stacked fears work as it overrides the fear and causes them to wander. They will often wander out of the fear radius and then be back at full effectiveness once the disorient wears off. The stacking fears work so well on minions of all levels that OG is kind of redundant, but ultimately more efficient under ideal circumstances. Another good thing is it requires very little slotting and it also looks really cool. The use for it would be: an endurance friendly way to fight against minions only. Not bad, just redundant enough on this build to not be a necessity.

Soul Transfer: Meh. Could be fun but not needed. I still want to try it though.

POWER POOLS

Fitness: Stamina is an absolute necessity. It need to be six-slotted. So, three power slots go to this. Even with stamina you will need to find an additional source of endurance as well, this build needs a lot of endurance.

Presence:

Provoke: Only taken because you need to. Kind of like boxing or kick, except that I find provoke to be moderately more useful. I wouldnt waste any slots on this, just put an accuracy into it.

Intimidate: This power wouldnt be terribly useful on its own, but when stacked with CoF and Invoke Panic: it becomes a surgical endurance friendly (compared to Invoke Panic, anyway) way to stack fear on a single target. It has a pretty decent range and Ive actually used it as a lead in power to debuff a particularly dangerous foe prior to jumping into a fight. On a minion and sometimes a lieutenant this means they get one attack then begin to cower. Its used primarily to hit a target within CoFs AoE for the fear stacking. If you plan on using this on higher level foes it needs at least two accuracy SOs and some fear duration. I have mine slotted with two accuracy and one fear duration.

Invoke Panic: The real surprise when making this toon was this power. Its awesome even if you didnt have CoF. It is a click PBAoE power with a slightly larger radius than CoF. When stacked with CoF it pretty much insures everything within its AoE becomes afraid, including most bosses, and begins to cower. This is the main tactic of this build. I will generally pull with TP foe or Provoke, break line of sight to group them up, and fire off invoke panic. It then stacks with CoF and presto: instant AoE attack line up. Then I go to town, reapplying the fear with invoke panic or intimidate as needed. This works equally well solo or with a team. This also needs several accuracy SOs and fear durations to be useful on higher level foes. I have mine slotted 2 Acc and 2 fear.

Body Mastery:

Conserve Power: I highly suggest getting this power to reduce downtime and to help you make it through a fight. The end drain is going to be hard to bear on this build without it.

Thats the template. Pretty simple, so on to how it works.

I want to tell you about my experiences with fear so far and how fear works. Fear is a status effect that ghetto immobilizes a foe and causes an inherent accuracy debuff. This debuff is base of 20% on Cloak of Fear which can be enhanced normally with to-hit debuffs. The presence pool fears I can only assume have an equal to-hit debuff, but I am not certain. One thing is for sure: they will not take to-hit debuff enhancements. If they do contain an equally effective accuracy debuff effect then they stack very nicely with what CoF can do, even vs. much higher level foes and bosses.

The accuracy debuff is only one part of the stacking fear effects. The other is the ghetto immobilize/hold component. Cloak of fear is awesome alone for holding most bad guys close to your level. Nemesis and higher level Lt.s and bosses can escape that effect though. This is where Invoke Panic has roughly the same AoE as CoF does, but I think its just a bit larger. When used with CoF, invoke panic will fear almost anything up to +5 levels over you. Intimidate can be used as a surgical tool anywhere in the radius of CoF to further debuff or insure a missed mob or stubborn boss will begin to cower. I have even had +2 AVs cower, but when fighting AVs the accuracy debuff is definatley the more important component.

When a mob cowers, a few things happen to it. Most importantly it will not attack unless attacked or debuffed. One common misconception on the forums is that a mob will return an attack for every attack it receives. This is not true. The game mechanic for when this attack happens seems to be a check-to-see-if-attacked over a set period of time. I often get three or four attacks in a row only to receive one attack in return and if you have multiple attacks/auras running it wont increase how many attacks you receive, i.e. CoF and Death Shroud.

Another interesting thing is who the return attack is directed upon. In a team situation a squishy can make an attack or debuff on a group of afraid mobs and receive no agro in return if the scrapper gets the attention of the mobs before the retaliatory attack activates. With any PBAoE aura running this basically happens automatically. The kinetics defender I run with no longer dies from fulcrum shifting at all because of this. This is an unstated damage mitigation effect in fear the whole team can benefit from, and what makes fear so awesome IMO.
Attack rate of foes is also reduced while they are afraid. This is not to say their power cycle time is increased, but that they just do not attack as often as they would if they were not afraid; even if you are attacking them constantly. This has to do with the set-cycle-of-time-to-check-for-attack mechanic I was discussing before and definitely acts as damage mitigation.

Fear is a tenuous ghetto hold at best. Lower level mobs will run consistently, so this isnt really effective against them. Even some higher levels will run, but only usually after you have destroyed most of their friends. They also dont usually run very far and stop to cower. Runners can be dangerous as when the fear effect wears off it wont be reapplied as they will be out side your radius. This same thing can happen when you team up with some one who uses knockback that affects higher level foes. Higher level bosses will require additional applications of one of the presence fears plus the tic of CoF to keep them cowering. Admittedly this is no where near what a controller can do, but even with its flaws; the fear-level of control is phenomenal for a scrapper. Occasionally, a runner will throw his hands up and scream like a terrified little girl and run in circles: I wish I knew how to make this happen more often, because I get a good laugh out of it.

The two biggest issues for this build is lack of resistances and the severe endurance drain. The presence pool fears drain a lot of endurance and so does DA in general. This build needs another way to get endurance, as even stamina wont cover the costs alone. Running with a defender or controller who can increase your recovery rate is the best option, and another is the body mastery APP. Conserve power is my surrogate defender, and the only thing that allows my build to solo effectively with out much downtime sans defender. Remember to keep blue inspirations in your tray as well! The lack of resistances shows up in two forms: there is probably no way to fit tough onto this build and this build is slot heavy and its hard to adequately slot your defenses without making sacrifices. The lack of resistances is now at least partially addressed by having stacking armors on test.

I love my spooky scraptroller and wanted to share the concept. Good luck!

The_GhostCaT · 01-19-2005 09:40 PM

==Copied from another post==

Fear was changed with the lastest update.

Fear until this update, reduced attack rate by regulating the return attacks of cowering mobs. Affected mobs only returned attacks every so often, and not as often as their normal attack rate. This was true even if you attacked them constantly.

The cloak of fear alone no longer prompts a return attack as it pulses, but this is acutually is a change across the board to the fear status effect. Even invoke panic doesn't cause a return attack anymore. Now when you attack a mob constanly after the latest update, he will return attacks at a normal rate of attack instead of the goverened attack rate that issue #3 introduced.

I wonder if there was an interim fix for CoF and other fear over time powers (i.e. spectral terror) causing too many returned attacks; that was subsequently repealed when the fear effects were coded corectly to not cause return attacks. Not sure, but it's definatley different now. If so, I wonder if CoF was raised back up to it's original pulse rate.

At first I thought this, would in effect be a nerf to how fear works for me. Then I noticed that leading with fear didn't provoke a return attack if the mob was succesfully scared.

Fear just got better.

I can now hit a sapper with intimidate at range. If it is sucessfull he will instantly cower: no return attack at all. With cloak of darkness on, I can now charge into a group of foes and hit then with two AoE fears (Invoke panic & CoF) and they all cower: no return attacks. This allows for some great set ups for my AoE attacks, as nothing attacks me untill I attack it. IMO, this is more useful than having the attack rate regulated. You still get the mitigation (albeit not as much as before) because only what you attack attacks back and even then, debuffed.

This equates to a better and more reliable form of control for the fear effect. It is now more dependable at the crucial begining of a fight.

This should be entirely relevant to ToF as well. In combination with CoD, you DM users should be able to sneak up on any minion or Lt and (assuming you hit) remove it from the fight by causing it to cower. With CoF and CoD, Dm users should even be able to do this to very dangerous bosses (Dark Ring mistresses anyone?). Please some DM test it out and let me know. This looks like it was an across the board change to fear.

With stacking AoE fears, you can do this with large groups of higher level mobs. I can do this consistently enough to +3's to call it a lock down with my current slotting of three accuracy and one fear in invoke panic. With focused accuracy? Well I don't have it yet, but I imagine I will be able to keep even higher level mobs cowering untill conserve power runs out.

Heh, at first I thought it was an unintentional nerf.

The_GhostCaT · 01-20-2005 09:28 AM

I wanted to post my build so anyone can see how this works when built.

Archetype: Scrapper
Primary Powers - Melee : Broad Sword
Secondary Powers - Defense : Dark Armor
Slot[01] Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Hack(Brd) /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[02] Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Dark Embrace /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[03] Level 2 : Slice(Brd) /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[04] Level 4 : Murky Cloud /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[05] Level 6 : Hasten /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[06] Level 8 : Build Up /Rchg
Slot[07] Level 10 : Recall Friend /EndRdx
Slot[08] Level 12 : Swift /Run
Slot[09] Level 14 : Teleport /Rng,EndRdx
Slot[10] Level 16 : Health /Heal
Slot[11] Level 18 : Whirling Sword /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[12] Level 20 : Stamina /EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec,EndRec
Slot[13] Level 22 : Obsidian Shield /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[14] Level 24 : Cloak Of Darkness /DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf
Slot[15] Level 26 : Dark Regeneration /EndRdx,Acc,Rchg
Slot[16] Level 28 : Cloak Of Fear /Acc,HitDeb,HitDeb,HitDeb,HitDeb,HitDeb
Slot[17] Level 30 : Provoke /Acc
Slot[18] Level 32 : Head Splitter(Brd) /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[19] Level 35 : Intimidate /Acc,Acc
Slot[20] Level 38 : Invoke Panic /Acc,Acc,Fear,Fear
Slot[21] Level 41 : Conserve Power /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[22] Level 44 : Teleport Foe /Acc
Slot[23] Level 47 : Focused Accuracy /EndRdx,EndRdx,EndRdx,EndRdx
Slot[24] Level 49 : Soul Transfer /Heal

As you can see the build doesnt develop until late. You can get the CoD/CoF functioning by level 30 or so, but the stacked AoE fears wouldnt work until the 40s. Again I think this works best as a respec build.

The Dark Mastery App really appealed to me, but essentially the powers in it are some control with an accuracy debuff component. One exception is Dark Blast, but I dont need another attack (ranged or not) or have the slots available for it to do decent damage. I have heard the recharge is long on the Dark powers, the endurance cost high, and I imagine the to-hit debuff is pretty small; so even slotting it out might not be worth it.

The fear powers in the presence line covers all the bases of the Dark Mastery pool and has a better synergy with the CoF/CoD Dark armor build. Dark Mastery has Petrifying Gaze, a single target hold. Intimidate has a much longer range, provokes no return attack when used as a lead in power, and stacks with CoF to hold bosses. Dark Mastery also has Tenebrous Tentacles, which is an awesome cone range DoT/immobilize. While this power is very cool, a scrapper either must lead with it or run out to range to use it effectively. Just in the AoE quality alone Invoke Panic makes a much more efficient power for a scrapper as it is a PBAoE click fear power. It originates from you just like CoF does and covers a slightly larger area. The synergy with CoF here is outstanding, not only does it cover the same area but it stacks the same controlling effect: Fear. This makes both of these powers much more effective when used together, especially against much higher level opponents.

The other component in the fear effect is the accuracy debuff. I am assuming that fear has a base accuracy debuff on par with whats been suggested by Flicker that CoF has. It may not, but I am pretty certain the accuracy debuff is there and at that level. If so, lets assume its around 20% as flicker suggested. My CoF is five slotted for to-hit debuffs bringing it up to about 55%. That means I can potentially debuff accuracy around 95% with stacked fears. On top of CoF that is way overkill for anything even level, dropping any mobs I fight at that level to the 5% floor. The overkill comes into play as you scale up what you fight as mob accuracy scales up with level, and it seems that accuracy debuffs scale inversely to the mob level difference. While reduced in effectiveness on higher levels, the three large accuracy debuffs in the fears still have a very significant effect upon higher level mobs; even +5s.

Dark blast and Torrent have no comparison in the presence line. The cons to those powers are knockback is situationaly useful and hell on teammates and Dark Blast has trouble coming up to the level of my other attacks.

It would be possible to have the Dark Mastery pool on a version of this build, but the end cost of DA + presence fears + Dark Mastery would probably be unplayable with out a defenders endurance support.

I believe the Body Mastery pool is the only viable Ancillary power pool that really matches the synergy already created in this build. Conserve power is the power that can make this build be solo able. It is a fantastic power that trivializes endurance use for a minute and a half and can be back up (when properly slotted with perma-hasten) a minute after it expires. This power reduces downtime so well that I couldnt possibly play without it now.

I havent tried Focused accuracy yet, but I think I know what it will do for this build. Ive found that I can tank much higher level mobs with this build: much higher level than I can effectively kill because of accuracy and damage issues. By solving the accuracy issue with FA I hope to be able to step up what I can fight efficiently. FA is a huge endurance drain and I fully expect it to cause my endurance bar to drop while running a full spread of attacks, all my toggles, and conserve power. That is why I feel, even with conserve power FA needs to be slotted for end redux and only used when necessary. FA will not only improve my attacks, but it will also positively affect the accuracy of my fears and TP Foe. Im pretty keen to try it ASAP. Im 45th now and will get it at 47th.

At the end of my build I have run short on slots, as much as I would like to do more I have only been able to five slot my armors and I was forced to take powers that dont require much slotting. This is why you see soul transfer on my build, it should be fun and requires little slotting to be effective. I thought about Oppressive Gloom, but especially now with the most recent fear changes, I find it to be a redundant power on my fear build.

I will post an update once I get FA, or if there are anymore changes to fear.

heart_teekay · 01-20-2005 10:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Occasionally, a runner will throw his hands up and scream like a terrified little girl and run in circles: I wish I knew how to make this happen more often, because I get a good laugh out of it.

[/ QUOTE ]i've seen that with my cof/cod scraptrolfender, it TOTALLY makes cof worth taking ^_^

Q_Arkhan · 01-20-2005 12:54 PM

Watching a Skyraider run in a very tight circle, hands up, shaking uncontrollably, screaming as I rushed to finish him with my KAT/DA was just too much. You don't get to HEAR the screams very often, but its awesome.

"A few levels ago, you and your friends cut me down with your knives. Now, you cower at my very presence. Ah, what a difference a respec makes "

Kitanajade · 01-22-2005 04:24 PM

quick question - how does fear interact with DoT damage?

i was considering leveling up a dark/rad defender with the intention of doing howling twilight (unresistable ranged aoe stun with minor dot) then fearsome stare to lock them down. toss in a cosmic burst after the fear and theyre double disoriented, debuffed, feared, and probably saying to each other "do you have an awaken?"

but if you do, say, a dot attack (like howling twilight, or irradiate, or fluffy's tenebrous tentacles) and then do fear, do the pulses of the dot "break" the fear after the initial tic if you nail them with fear right AFTER the dotting power is thrown?

Devin_Lacer · 01-22-2005 05:05 PM

I was actually thinking about this build for my MA/DA, good to see someone else has considered it. My MA/DA isn't very high but he'll be shooting for this.

The_GhostCaT · 01-23-2005 09:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]

quick question - how does fear interact with DoT damage?

[/ QUOTE ]
The cowering effect will be broken by DoT and any mob who takes damage will return atacks at his full attack rate. These attacks will be debuffed and their chance of hitting will be reduced by the fear effect. The mobs generally won't run, but instead just return debuffed attacks. So the fear isn't broken by damage, just the ghetto hold turns into more of a ghetto immobilize.

Kitanajade · 01-23-2005 02:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

quick question - how does fear interact with DoT damage?

[/ QUOTE ]
The cowering effect will be broken by DoT and any mob who takes damage will return atacks at his full attack rate. These attacks will be debuffed and their chance of hitting will be reduced by the fear effect. The mobs generally won't run, but instead just return debuffed attacks. So the fear isn't broken by damage, just the ghetto hold turns into more of a ghetto immobilize.

[/ QUOTE ]

apparently debuffs dont break fear anymore.. so with darkest night and the debuff on fearsome stare from the dark defender line, not sure i *care* if it breaks the fear hehe.

ill just have to pick up tar patch to stop the scatter (dark/rad, no tentacles.)

ProcessedMeatMan · 01-25-2005 01:07 AM

I must say... you've inspired me. I'm going to utilize some of these ideas for my Spines/DA scrapper. Fits my concept too! Thanks for the brainstorm!

The_GhostCaT · 02-01-2005 07:50 AM

I hit 47 last night and got Focused accuracy.

I like it, but now I'm getting to the highest level game and I truly wonder if it will be all that necessary because very little will be +4 levels over me. Oh well, it is a fantastic power for dealing with targets with a really high defense so I don't think I will respec it out. Its endurance drain is horrendous, but not terrible with conserve power on. I don't think I will slot it out quite as extensively as my build above shows, and rather slot my armors some more instead. Maybe even put some more slots into invoke panic.

Someone pointed out to me in another thread the merits of using disembowel over whirling sword on this build, and I agree with their assessment. The fear definitely mitigates more damage if you have high power single target attacks. I still act as the melee damage when herding with my invuln tank friend, so right now, whirling sword is the more efficient attack for me. I think though, later, I will respec it out for disembowel. Not certain yet, but the idea behind it is solid: single target damage provokes fewer return attacks.

Q_Arkhan · 02-01-2005 08:11 AM

Since I went with a modified "Scary Scraptroller" build with my KAT/DA, the only time I use LOTUS Drops is when I'm not running CoF.

Disembowel and Headsplitter will be my cornerstones. So, in effect, I'm morphing into a Single-target, high-damage scrapper, similar to MA, instead of a mixed single/AEO like Katana.

I still use Flashing Steel and Lotus Drops, but not nearly like I used to when "I HAD TO" to survive. I currently have 4XDAM in my Lotus Drops but if I run a respec trial in the future, I'll probably not put 4 slots into Lotus again.

DarknessEternal · 02-01-2005 08:25 AM

How do you have any endurance while using Dark Armor? Without Conserve Power, you'd hardly regenerate anything even if you standing around not attacking.

Q_Arkhan · 02-01-2005 09:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
How do you have any endurance while using Dark Armor? Without Conserve Power, you'd hardly regenerate anything even if you standing around not attacking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I can run ALL my toggles at once, Un-enhanced and still hold even while standing. Perma-Hasten will drop me 20 every 2 minutes, so that throws it off.

I'll list my toggles, their base EPS and enhanced EPS in my build

Combat Jumping .08 .08
Dark Embrace .39 .23
Murky Cloud .39 .29
Obsidian Shield .39 .29
CloaKDarkness .39 .29
CLoakFear .71 .42
SuperSpeed .53 .39

Un-enhanced base END drain per second = 2.88
With my enhancement slots, EPS = 2.01

My normal load-out consists of DE, CJ, SS, CoD, for .99 EPS

With Six-slotted Stamina, I recover 2.92 EPS, which covers the maximum, unenhanced toggle load. With full load and my enhancements, I recover almost 1 EPS, my normal load out, I regain 1.93 EPS.

Endurance is an issue, but if I'm in a fight that I know I can win, and there are limited mobs within aggro range, I'll drop SuperSpeed. I only run OS against "controller or stunner" types, and I drop it when its not needed. MurkyCloud is very situational. CloakofFear isn't needed in every fight. CJ is just free.

END INSP are CHEAP and tend to drop pretty frequently from minions and LTs. (moreso than HEALTH)

END use can be mitigated and managed. Its not going away but that's what CONSERVE POWER is for

Zombie_Butler · 02-01-2005 09:37 AM

Ghost Cat gotta love this post. I respected (is that the correct past tense meh I don't know) into a slightly different version of this build with the dark epic powers. However, you have to love the COF.

I have a question on how you slotted out the resistance shields mine are 1 endredux and 3 dam resist. Do you know the slotting off hand for maximum resistance (now that scrappers have a 75% cap?)

Also I toyed with the idea of getting the body mastery pool but when I found I couldn't get conserve power perma I dropped the idea. Do you have end redux slotted on any of your shields?

Spector is at the retirement age but I have so much fun with the scary build that I keep running her on missions (wish this had come a bit sooner now that I see how fun COF can be).
Thanks in advance for your reply

The_GhostCaT · 02-01-2005 01:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have a question on how you slotted out the resistance shields mine are 1 endredux and 3 dam resist. Do you know the slotting off hand for maximum resistance (now that scrappers have a 75% cap?)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think only OS can get you to the resistance cap out of the DA armors, I'm not sure but I think 5 slots in it will do. The others fall just shy even six slotted. I recomend slotting your armors as much as possible.

[ QUOTE ]
Also I toyed with the idea of getting the body mastery pool but when I found I couldn't get conserve power perma I dropped the idea. Do you have end redux slotted on any of your shields?

[/ QUOTE ]

I slot no end redux on my shields.

Conserve power is a fantastic power, worth getting even though you can only run it for a minute and a half with a minute downtime while perma-hastened. It is all that and I can't imagine playing my build without it.

Screwloose · 02-01-2005 08:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I have a question on how you slotted out the resistance shields mine are 1 endredux and 3 dam resist. Do you know the slotting off hand for maximum resistance (now that scrappers have a 75% cap?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Base resistance numbers (Thanks Romance)

Dark Embrace: 22.5% Smashing/Lethal Resist, 15% Negative Resist Toggle. Cost: 0.39 E/ps (Endurance per Second)

Murky Cloud: 26.25% Cold, Fire, Energy Resist, 15% Negative. Cost: 0.39 E/ps

Obsidian Shield: 37.5% Psychic resist, Sleep, Hold, Disorientate Resist. Cost: 0.39 E/ps

5 SO Resistance Enh will double those values, 6 will give you 2.2 times.

So even with 6 SO's only Ob Shield will reach the cap.

I also have a number of 15% for base Resist for Tough, which would mean Tough and DE both slotted with 5 Resist Enh would take you exactly to the Res Cap for Scrappers, but that is looking more like an wannabe Invuln Scrapper than a Scary Scraptroller.

[ QUOTE ]
Also I toyed with the idea of getting the body mastery pool but when I found I couldn't get conserve power perma I dropped the idea. Do you have end redux slotted on any of your shields?

[/ QUOTE ]

I slot an End reducer in every toggle, except OpGloom, and find it does help significantly with End costs.

regards, Screwloose.
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Morcalivan7 · 02-01-2005 09:17 PM

How fast can you guys get Dark Consumption? Imo it's what makes DA reach it's full potential.

Sure Stamina is good but if you can fill up your whole bar while at the same time causing moderate damage to every enemy in range, then why would a Dark/Dark need it right? Depends on how fast it can recharge with perma-hasten and a couple rech enhancements.

When I'm done enhancing I will have 5 rech on hasten (6 is a complete waste) and 3 rech with 1 acc on my dark consumption. With DR followed by DC combos, and soul drain beefing up the death shroud, it becomes pretty easy to kick some [censored] with this set and make the fights short and sweet.

Granted, downtime between fights is a pain in the [censored] without stamina, but with a kinetics or empath on your friends list it should be pretty short. Not to mention fortitude or siphon power while in the fight.

Morcalivan7 · 02-01-2005 09:20 PM

My Dark/Dark Build as Morcalivan, the Nictus Scrapper.

Archetype: Scrapper
Primary Powers - Melee : Dark Melee
Secondary Powers - Defense : Dark Armor
Slot[01] Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Smite /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[02] Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Dark Embrace /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[03] Level 2 : Shadow Maul /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[04] Level 4 : Murky Cloud /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[05] Level 6 : Death Shroud /Acc,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[06] Level 8 : Recall Friend /EndRdx
Slot[07] Level 10 : Obsidian Shield /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[08] Level 12 : Provoke /Taunt
Slot[09] Level 14 : Teleport /EndRdx
Slot[10] Level 16 : Dark Regeneration /Acc,EndRdx,EndRdx
Slot[11] Level 18 : Dark Consumption /Acc,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[12] Level 20 : Hasten /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[13] Level 22 : Hover /Fly
Slot[14] Level 24 : Challenge /Taunt
Slot[15] Level 26 : Soul Drain /Acc,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[16] Level 28 : Cloak Of Fear /Acc,HitDeb,HitDeb,HitDeb,HitDeb,HitDeb
Slot[17] Level 30 : Invoke Panic /Acc,Acc,EndRdx
Slot[18] Level 32 : Midnight Grasp /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[19] Level 35 : Oppressive Gloom /Acc
Slot[20] Level 38 : Soul Transfer /Rchg

I might boot out Opressive Gloom and Soul Transfer and one of the epics for Stamina. Haven't decided yet.

All I know is I want Dark Tentacles so that my Death Shroud and Cloak of Fear can take full effect after I cast Provoke.

Screwloose · 02-01-2005 09:27 PM

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How fast can you guys get Dark Consumption? Imo it's what makes DA reach it's full potential.

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Dark Consumption is available at level 18.

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Sure Stamina is good but if you can fill up your whole bar while at the same time causing moderate damage to every enemy in range, then why would a Dark/Dark need it right? Depends on how fast it can recharge with perma-hasten and a couple rech enhancements.

When I'm done enhancing I will have 5 rech on hasten (6 is a complete waste) and 3 rech with 1 acc on my dark consumption.

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With perma Hasten and 3 recharge reducers you should have DC available every 67 seconds, not bad.

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With DR followed by DC combos, and soul drain beefing up the death shroud, it becomes pretty easy to kick some [censored] with this set and make the fights short and sweet.

Granted, downtime between fights is a pain in the [censored] without stamina,

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And that is why some people prefer the steady always on End recovery of Stamina, it doesn't give you the big highs of powers like DC but it also doesn't give you the long waits while your uber combo recharges.

Not that there is anything wrong with the playstyle that you have suggested, it certainly works, but making a character that relies on it does also come with draw backs, as you have noted.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

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Screwloose · 02-01-2005 09:36 PM

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My Dark/Dark Build as Morcalivan, the Nictus Scrapper.

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Overall pretty good, just a few comments.

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Slot[07] Level 10 : Obsidian Shield /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes

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At some point you will find it pretty much mandatory to run Ob Shield in every fight to avoid Status ERffects, so an End reducer in it is a good investment IMHO.

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Slot[16] Level 28 : Cloak Of Fear /Acc,HitDeb,HitDeb,HitDeb,HitDeb,HitDeb

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Cloak of Fear has a pretty high End cost, similar to other Offensive toggles, an End Reducer in it is highly recommended.

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Slot[17] Level 30 : Invoke Panic /Acc,Acc,EndRdx

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This is for an AE Fear tactic combined with CoF rather than the more usual ToF + CoF combo?

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I might boot out Opressive Gloom and Soul Transfer and one of the epics for Stamina. Haven't decided yet.

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IMHO Op Gloom is a great power, effectivly nullifies all minions that you can get in melee range. Yes Fear will sort of shut them down too but some minions you don't want taking any actions and Fear'ed mobs will still take non attack actions, like healing other mobs.

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All I know is I want Dark Tentacles so that my Death Shroud and Cloak of Fear can take full effect after I cast Provoke.

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Why do you think that you need an Immobilise to make your Fear's work? Fear and Provoke use to be a combo because Fear made things run away, but now Feared mobs stand still and cower, you don't need to Provoke them to keep them near.

regards, Screwloose.
"I am not young enough to know everything."

How to Look Stuff Up Yourself - It's Fun and Easy
Looking for Powers Numbers try City of Data.
For Fraks sake read the Guides and FAQs
Global Chat Channels - Australia

The_GhostCaT · 02-02-2005 05:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My Dark/Dark Build as Morcalivan, the Nictus Scrapper.

Archetype: Scrapper
Primary Powers - Melee : Dark Melee
Secondary Powers - Defense : Dark Armor
Slot[01] Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Smite /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[02] Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Dark Embrace /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[03] Level 2 : Shadow Maul /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[04] Level 4 : Murky Cloud /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[05] Level 6 : Death Shroud /Acc,EndRdx,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[06] Level 8 : Recall Friend /EndRdx
Slot[07] Level 10 : Obsidian Shield /DamRes,DamRes,DamRes,DamRes
Slot[08] Level 12 : Provoke /Taunt
Slot[09] Level 14 : Teleport /EndRdx
Slot[10] Level 16 : Dark Regeneration /Acc,EndRdx,EndRdx
Slot[11] Level 18 : Dark Consumption /Acc,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[12] Level 20 : Hasten /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[13] Level 22 : Hover /Fly
Slot[14] Level 24 : Challenge /Taunt
Slot[15] Level 26 : Soul Drain /Acc,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[16] Level 28 : Cloak Of Fear /Acc,HitDeb,HitDeb,HitDeb,HitDeb,HitDeb
Slot[17] Level 30 : Invoke Panic /Acc,Acc,EndRdx
Slot[18] Level 32 : Midnight Grasp /Acc,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[19] Level 35 : Oppressive Gloom /Acc
Slot[20] Level 38 : Soul Transfer /Rchg

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I think intimidate would be a better choice than challenge if you are not going to pick up ToF. This build is all about control through stacking fear, invoke panic and CoF miss sometimes; othertimes something you need to control is outside the radius of both. For those times, intimidate is a very good power to have.

While it is admirable to think outside the box and build a toon without stamina, I'm not sure it will work with this particular build. One end redux in invoke panic won't make enough of a difference. I think it would reduce it's cost from about 30 to 25 per use. You will have to continously reuse IP during a fight to get a good level of control. This will take your endurance bar down very fast, faster than dark consumption can compensate I think.

This build needs a lot of juice, especially if you want to go the Dark Mastery epic route. I suggest you consider dark consupmtion and stamina, untill you get to the point where you could get conserve power; then respec to a dark consumption plus conserve power build: that's the only way I could see this working. Otherwise the only inspirations you need bother to carry should be blue, and turn on a TV; you'll have plenty of time to watch it.

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All I know is I want Dark Tentacles so that my Death Shroud and Cloak of Fear can take full effect after I cast Provoke.

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Provoke has little affect of afraid mobs, it only makes sure they return attacks at you if they are being attacked, and only if your timing is right using it. That's it, it doesn't stop the few runners that the fear effect can make split. It is useful for gathering mobs into the fears' radiuses though, by using it and breaking line of sight to draw the mobs in.

Deathshroud and TT will cause the mobs you have feared to return attacks at a normal attack rate, so you lose quite a bit of damage mitigation. The attacks will be debuffed, so as long as your not fighting much higher levels you should still do all right with this. Two problems I see are:

1) Your fears are PBAoE and TT is a cone. Meaning you will have to run out to range to use TT again, then rush back in for the fears to be maintained. The synergy isn't quite there as TT is slighlty redudndant; the fear is already a ghetto immobilize, and the damage from it will break the fear cowering effect.

2) The endurance usage of invoke panic+CoF+TT+DS will drop your bar like a stone without stamina.

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Granted, downtime between fights is a pain in the [censored] without stamina, but with a kinetics or empath on your friends list it should be pretty short. Not to mention fortitude or siphon power while in the fight.

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Yup, defenders rock. They would solve all of your endurance problems. I was very fortunate to have an old friend of mine join me regularly to play and be on vetrillio (voice chat). In that way I was able to enjoy playing an inneficient endurance build. I wouldn't recommend that if you plan on finding defenders/controlers though pick up teams.

The_GhostCaT · 02-02-2005 06:02 AM

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IMHO Op Gloom is a great power, effectivly nullifies all minions that you can get in melee range. Yes Fear will sort of shut them down too but some minions you don't want taking any actions and Fear'ed mobs will still take non attack actions, like healing other mobs.

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Op gloom is also a toggle breaker, where fear is not.

Q_Arkhan · 02-02-2005 08:26 AM

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Op gloom is also a toggle breaker, where fear is not.

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Excellent point. That's a big plus for OG, one I didn't realize.

To a previous poster who asked about "Dark consumption":

I know that Ghost_cat's build assumes DM/DA but a lot of other /DA are using the Scary_Scraptroller template. We don't get Dark Consumption, so slotting shields/DS/CoF for END RDX is more important for us. DM/DA work very well together. I think KAT/DA is great for the DivineAvalanche, filling the DEF void in DA until CoD/CoF (and after).

The_GhostCaT · 02-02-2005 09:46 AM

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I know that Ghost_cat's build assumes DM/DA

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Actually, my toon that uses this build is BS/DA. The build concept is for */DA, but DM is a good combo because it has the best synergy with DA.

I don't slot end redux in my attacks or armors, because stamina and conserve power are good enough for me to run with very little downtime.