Person34
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Posts
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[QUOTE=EricHough;2991824]Keep in mind that there are at least 5 different 'standard' VEAT builds...QUOTE]
There's also the non-standard VEAT... the melee crab. I only bring it up because out of sheer curiosity I made one and it is probably one of the most fun toons I've ever played. More damage then the ranged crab, more survivable than a bane. It's only shortcomings are lack of a big hitting single target attack (shatter armor helps here, and maybe some of the pets) and endurace seems to evaporate if you don't slot end redux in attacks. Just like its ranged cousin it shreds groups of mobs largely without worry of faceplanting. Lots of fun.
Most folks will tell you to just play a bane if you want a melee toon, and for good reason. My main draw to the melee crab was that I -hated- the ranged attacks of the crab but liked the look of a softcapped toon (got to work at this a bit as soldiers are ranged-heavy defense and are light on melee defense out of the box) with great resists across the board and a dull pain clone-type heal. Grabbed up slice, arm lash, frenzy and use sands of mu + shatter armor as needed. Oh and took VG as well... too good a power to pass up.
Anyways, not the most popular choice but it's there if you want to try it out. -
Quote:Actually, widows get a decent bit of enhanceable DDR: foresight gives 17% base and (if you 6-slot it with lvl 50 def IOs) you can squeeze out 41% from it. On top of that, NW's elude grands another 34% I believe and adds in a good bit of additional defense to boot.Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
actually they do, they have no DDR so any -def will kill their defenses
So, for a 3 minute window anyway, a NW can have @ 75% DDR and have enough stacked defense to be largely untouchable.
Outside of that though, yeah gotta make sure you don't bite off more than you can chew solo. Even IOed to the gills an overlap on a +8/+2 map when facing malta or carnies can put me at serious risk. But without risk where's the fun? =D -
Quote:If that were the case then the NW would have the victory by a landslide as their attacks do about 2x's the base damage of a claw stalkers.Originally Posted by JD_Gumby
It would have to be a Claws/Super Reflexes Stalker, of course, that being the closest equivalent for power sets to the Night Widow. No sense comparing other Stalker combos since they would be too different.
For example, base slash damage on a claw stalkers at lvl 50 is 73.4, where is it 152.6 on a NW. Heck, NWs get an attack at lvl -2- (strike) that outdamages everything a claw stalker has access to except eviscerate and their assassins strike. Again, that's a lvl 2 attack...
That's why I suggested DM on the stalker as the attacks are more comparable damage-wise. But in that example the stalker has a clear advantage as its "lunge" equivlent attack is also a self heal.
Would be nice if stalkers did more parses. In fact, trying to recall a stalker ever even attempting the pylon challenge... -
Quote:Yes, stalkers cap at about 1.6k. And VEATS cap at 2.4, but you aren't going to find any widows pushing much more than the stalker's cap which was my point. You'll never, ever see a 2400 hp widow running around, and most of the builds posted are 1450-1500 hitpoints w/ accolades. So yes, again stalkers and widows realistically have similiar hit points.Originally Posted by Vermain
I'd contest this, because I very clearly remember DPS tests done which put NWs nearly at the top for single target damage, with some things like saturated Fire/SD Scrappers beating them out. Stalkers win the burst damage battle without contention, but NWs will win for long-term DPS.
As for HP, the Widow max is 2.4k, while the Stalker max is 1.6k, so... 1622 is actually better than what a Stalker could get. I never really focus on HP for either Stalker or NW builds, because you should have a solid team supporting you, which removes the need for squeezing every last drop of survivability you can get out of IOs. Soloing doesn't present a problem, in this case, since soft-cap Defense is more than enough for most situations.
Stalkers do have better hide, I guess, but they also don't give their entire party 30% Defense. All you need is Hasten, Maneuvers, TT: Maneuvers, Mind Link and Mental Training (all powers you should be taking anyways, with the possible exception of vanilla Maneuvers), three Defense/Recharge IOs to slot in, and you're good to go. This also puts you at the soft cap, which means you can spend your slots on more important bonuses like damage, accuracy or recharge.
Not to disparage Stalkers, since they're cool dudes, but Night Widows have it comparatively better in a whole slew of categories.
I think you are more on track with NWs being more team friendly, which is perfectly acceptable. And while I will agree with the idea of a NW blowing an elec or spines stalker out of the water in the single target dps department I would be interested in seeing how a DM/SR stalker stacks up. They have similiar damage single target attacks and positional defenses with a recharge buff and scaling resists, just like widows. The main difference is the stalker can have 100% DDR and a self heal (which to me blows your "but Night Widows have it comparatively better in a whole slew of categories" idea clear out of the water.. but we are after all comparing one specific AT to another that has multiple options for attacks and defenses).
Anyway I just thought the "NWs are pumped-up Stalkers" was a generalization which is why I responded in the first place. Thematically they are in opposition: one's the team-friendly killer, the other the lone assassin. Both are damage dealers. But don't assume that a NW > stalker in the damage dept, either burst or sustained, as I don't see how it's possible. But without hard numbers it's tough to really know.
Ah well. Widows and stalkers both rule, regards of who can do what. -
Quote:I don't think NWs are pumped-up stalkers, with accolades and a few IO enhancements you can max a stalker's hit points and the best I've been able to get on my widow (with all of the hit point accolades) is 1622. So they are about even there. On top of that stalkers will outdamage a widow, with less resisted damage types offered, assasin's strikes and the ability to crit up to 30% of the time while in teams and while not hidden. Heck, just with the 3 spiderling pets they can achieve a 19% out-of-hide crit rate. And they have placate for controlled crits as well.Originally Posted by Vermain
NWs are pumped-up Stalkers who also have the mild side effect of being able to give everyone on their team 30% positional Defense. Fortunatas are Dominators with claws or psychic blasts (or both).
Also mask presence is nowhere near as good as a stalker's hide.
"NWs are pumped-up wannabe claws Stalkers" might be more accurate =). -
Quote:Smoke grenade has no bearing on critical hits. Only mask presence and the hidden status from placate will grant a crit for a widow.Originally Posted by Novella
The blindness (-perception) is what effects whether or not you land a critical hit though correct?
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Wow, that's tough to read. I'm at work ATM so can't open mids but at a glance this is what I'd change:
- Indomitable will is prob overslotted, I'd just stick the defense unique and end redux in there and call it good.
- Mind link needs to be adjusted, no reason for 4 membranes in there. Stick with 3, not sure what the additional IOs are doing in there as can't veiw the bonuses... but you could prob drop them as I see you also are taking TT:leadership.
- You have a ton of attacks in there, I'd drop swipe and replace it with strike in that slot. I'd move lunge and slash waaaay down the list to 12 and 18 where they become available (they are your heavy hitters), also I'd pick either spin or eviscerate but not both.
There are just what I can spot at a glance. -
I agree with Daemodand, the night widow is a beast. I have dual builds on my widow and I don't even touch the fort 95% of the time. Single target damage is great and it's a very survivable combination.
Forts are ok, and are probably more survivable due to their controls. Forts also have a superior AE attack in psy wail, but it' on a long recharge (6 minutes I think). But when I play mine I feel like I'm running barefoot on a sandy beach, where with the night widow I'm wearing track shoes and rocketing down the 100 meter stretch. My only real gripe with NWs is they can go through end pretty fast if not careful.
Both are very effective, they just have different methods of doing business. -
EDIT: Disregard, think I'll avoid tough on the widow and revisit the idea when the incarnate abilities go live.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Red Pirate Boggarts
Hi guys, I was wondering about bane spiders in general, and in spite of having read that bane executioner guide at the top, I still have some questions. Thanks in advance for any replies.
1. CT Defensive and melee. I've read that soldiers get ranged defense as their auto power while widows get melee defense. I assume there's no possible way of changing the positional defense if one were to go melee bane or ranged fortunata.
Taking this was the easy choice nonetheless, but should I put more than 1 slot on it? I've read that soldiers can cap their ranged def very easily; it's the melee cap that takes some effort to reach.
2. -defense debuffs. I don't see where soldiers get any kind of protection against this. What do you soldiers do when you've got lots of PPP keldians stacking -def debuffs on you?
3. The pets. I understand these are like controller pets, so I can't compare them to my 50 MM. But, knowing how my zombies like to run around if I don't reel them in with the follow button... Exactly how dumb are these spider pets?
I don't want them to run off and aggro spawn B when my team is still at spawn A.
4. What's your opinion of CT: offensive? Could I get away with having it and only having 1 accuracy on my attacks? I had planned on doing 1 acc, 0-1 end red, 1-2 recharge on my attacks, along with the 3 damage slots.
Looking over the end costs of toggles and combat jumping, I don't think I'll have a big problem with endurance (taking stamina).
1. I skipped CT D on my bane and am still running 46% to all 3 positionals. Not really needed once you have a solid foundation for melee and AE defenses as ranged will probably follow in suit.
2. Yeah, all SoAs should be weary of DDR. It's probably our one true shortcoming. Just pick your enemy groups wisely and, if faced with some DDR foes, pop a few oranges. With cloak and placate on your side you can usually win out in the end.
3. The pets are great (esp for the purples: 3 slotting for 3% health and 16% regen? Sign me up!). They are largely a fire and forget weapon, don't worry about having to babysit them, just let em rip! In the higher levels don't expect them to be too durable though. But great mindless damage and control. If you end up going mace patron for shatter armor you can get the blaster pet as well and have 3 robotic spiders.
4. CT O is a waste IMO. With the amount of accuracy you will have access to later in the game through IOs it becomes pointsless as you cannot have a higher to hit chance than 95%. If you end up with a power slot left and no enhancements to plug into it consider one of the low end cost TTs or (like I did) venom grenade with only an acc IO. -
Linking it below: I usually frankenslot ranged attacks as you can get some crazy benefits out of them, i also added shatter armor as not only does it hit hard but it is a 20 second -20 resist debuff... nice to have when going toe to toe with a heavily lethal resistant boss. Also it'll require mask presence running to cap, on my main widow's build I've underslotted defenses because I can still softcap and it leaves room to slot enhancements elsewhere. If things get tough I pop elude and the 120+ positional + 65% DDR (between elude and forsight) keeps me kicking, er, slashing against any group I've encountered.
And hasten makes -everything- better. You'll only need about 30% more global to perma it.
There's literally dozens of ways to build a NW, this build is different than mine due to me not taking travel powers, but outside of that and a few pricier recipes they are strikingly similar in design.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.621
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Venom's Kiss: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery
Villain Profile:
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Level 1: Poison Dart
(A) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage
(3) Devastation - Damage/Endurance
(3) Devastation - Damage/Recharge
(5) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(5) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
(50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge
Level 2: Strike
(A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
(7) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance
(7) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge
(9) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
(9) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(50) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
(11) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(11) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
(13) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
Level 6: Hover
(A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range
(13) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance
(43) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)
Level 8: Follow Up
(A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
(15) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance
(15) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge
(17) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
(17) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(50) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up
Level 10: Indomitable Will
(A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
Level 12: Swift
(A) Flight Speed IO
Level 14: Health
(A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
(19) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
(19) Miracle - Heal/Endurance
(40) Miracle - Heal
(46) Miracle - +Recovery
(48) Regenerative Tissue - +Regeneration
Level 16: Lunge
(A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
(21) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
(21) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
(23) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(23) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
Level 18: Slash
(A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
(25) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
(25) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
(27) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(27) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
Level 20: Stamina
(A) Performance Shifter - EndMod
(29) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge
(29) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy
(31) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
Level 22: Foresight
(A) Gift of the Ancients - Defense
(31) Gift of the Ancients - Defense/Endurance
(31) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(40) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
Level 24: Mind Link
(A) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
(33) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge
(33) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
(33) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
Level 26: Mental Training
(A) Flight Speed IO
Level 28: Mask Presence
(A) Gift of the Ancients - Defense
(34) Gift of the Ancients - Defense/Endurance
(34) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
(34) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
Level 30: Spin
(A) Obliteration - Damage
(36) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
(36) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
(36) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(37) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 32: Aid Other
(A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
(37) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance
(43) Numina's Convalescence - Endurance/Recharge
Level 35: Fly
(A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range
(37) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance
(46) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)
Level 38: Aid Self
(A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance
(39) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge
(39) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
(39) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
(40) Doctored Wounds - Heal
Level 41: Mace Blast
(A) Devastation - Accuracy/Damage
(42) Devastation - Damage/Endurance
(42) Devastation - Damage/Recharge
(42) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(43) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
Level 44: Shatter Armor
(A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
(45) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
(45) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
(45) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(46) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
Level 47: Hasten
(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(48) Recharge Reduction IO
(48) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 49: Placate
(A) Recharge Reduction IO
------------
Level 1: Brawl
(A) Empty
Level 1: Sprint
(A) Empty
Level 2: Rest
(A) Empty
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 4: Ninja Run
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Messed around with a build earlier for you when I got home, it drops both assaults and adds slash and hasten. It retains the 82.5 global recharge as well, plus has about 100 more hit points and I've doubled your hit point regeneration to 23.5 (you wouldn't belive how nice this can be). However, it's a little more end intensive with a bit less recovery, which was not outlined in your specifications. Widow's are end hungrey to begin with, this would be a friendlier PvE build outside of soloing AVs. However I don't think widows are optimized for soloing most AVs so take it for what it's worth.
Also, take into consideration that later on down the road if you decide to end up with purples and/or PvP IOs you can make a widow into and unstoppable juggernaut (outside of cascading defense failures ---> which is why I always take the "I'm coming after you now and there's nothing you can do to stop me" button known as elude on my widow). You could easily get 120+ global rech and have 3.8+ end/sec recovery with the right sets later on.
I can post the build if you like, might give you some ideas anyway if you decide on going a different direction. -
Night Widows can lay down the hurt but they are a low HP AT and, outside of pure defense, are largely "defenseless". Yeah folks will say "but scaling resists..." but they are largely worthless. In an AV fight just be prepared for using aid self a lot. Not trying to discourage you from trying, just making you aware.
Also.. no slash or eviscerate? Those are the "big hitters" most folks goto NW for (well, slash is... some ppl don't like eviscerate esp when you have access to spin). I can see if you are wanting a sustained DPS widow, but outside of placate and mental training you can make a fort with the exact same powers (and add in aim to suppliment your follow up and double stacked assaults).
Outside of my personal preferences listed, nice build. -
Ok thanks for the ideas there, was also considering grouping with a lower level and having them lead so I can match their level and be less of a threat (goes along with your flashback suggestion).
TY! -
Hey all, I am finnishing up one of my villain's accolades (born in battle) and it requires a badge for getting ten spectral pirates onto one of those "ghostbuster" pad things (over by Fort Hades in PO). What is the easiest way for a levl 50 to lure these lvl 10 critters onto the pad?
If I aggro them they run for their undead lives, if I use my weakest attack (brawl or the throwing knife) they either die or run for their undead lives. I was thinking of using my second build and getting either provoke or TP Foe but not sure if these will work. Any suggestions?
This is just for the ten count badge, there's also a one hundred count if I remeber correctly. So any tips would be greatly appreciated! -
Wow, that's a nice build and some good feedback there. I am not a fan of the backpack look and the build you posted looks like a gun-bane of sorts... which is pretty interesting. I may have to investigate this a bit, thanks for the information!
Oh, and my bane I was talking about.. gotta love frankenslotting, which is ultimately what made it possible to pull off. There were some compromises, like not having room for hasten or the medicine pool, but overall it works well with my style of play. Thanks for the compliment =) -
Ok, after about a year of planning my bane's build is almost completed. Now I'd like to work on a second build for her. Something more support themed but can solo decent as well. Someone told me that if I had a crab as my second build my bane would also have the crab's backpack... is this true? Also, I like the idea behind a huntsman's WAWG + venom grenade + frag + full burst combo but without a higher damage like blaster or scourge like corruptors I'm a little uncertain about the performance of the class.
What dual soldier builds do you guys employ? I don't think I've ever seen a true Huntsman on Virtue yet, so I have no idea how effective they are. I know that crabs can lay down some AE hurt but I have yet to group with one. I've read the guides but would like some feedback on which you think is more enjoyable to play. Thanks in advance. -
I have a 43 BS/elec stalker that has been stalled there for about 6 months now. The lethal resists got old after a bit, I avoided any mish with robots because it was so painful (malta, council).
However, the toon was quite the carnie killer: hard hitting lethal attacks + 95% immunity to end drains made the Carnival of Shadows cry. Was funny to get hit with the ring mistresses mask of vitiation (sp) or a malta sapper and just shrug it off. -
Did some testing, think I'm going to stick with spin. Eviscerate is nice, but yeah it seems to animate forever (even though it and spin have the same activation times), and I noticed today that spin allows me to do something eviscerate cannot: I can still hit a mob that has blinded/placated me with it. Glad I do all my stress testing in the GV fab heh.
Ok thanks again for the feedback guys! -
Hmmm... good points there.
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Which do you guys prefer and why? I've always used spin on my NW and have no experience with eviscerate, on paper eviscerate hits way harder and I can see it even being part of a single attack chain (it hits harder than lunge does, and it's also an AE that will affect up to 5 targets). It has the same cast time as spin and less endurance per activation as well.
Part of the reason I want to try it out as well is it is one of a NW's signature attacks: my fort has spin and FU just like my NW does, the only physical claw attack that differs between my 2 builds is slash. The advantage of spin is you can just let it rip and hit everything around you (and it has twice the target cap as eviscerate), but I have no problem stepping back a few feet to line mobs up in a cone and I rarely have more than 5 mobs on me at once so I don't see the advantage of spin over eviscerate for my playstyle.
Just curious who using it and what their experience is with it is all. Thanks guys. -
Ok great, thanks for the information guys =D
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Poison or pain here, both mesh well.
Was originally thinking /pain and that's what I made on test. However, seening that the ember demon has 2 heals (not sure yet if it will target the player with the single target heal like the merc medic does) I'm more inclined to go with /poison.
Stacking the slows of neurotoxic breath with the demon prince's shiver and chilling embrace means crippling a mobs movement and recharge. And the possibility of stacking over -100 resist debuffs on a mob sounds tasty. It will make less of an "autopilot" build than /pain but should just tear through content.
Quote:So then is corruption considered a melee attack or a ranged attack in terms of IO slotting?Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
Corruption, the first attack is also ranged at 80'; keep that in mind when deciding what to take. -
I understand how it works, I am just curious what determines if your pets retaliate: the mob attacking you or the mob hitting you. I was thinking of trying a defensive build to tankermind with, but wasn't sure which triggers the pets to react. I've had mobs miss me before while in BG mode and the pets just sit there. Anyone know offhand?
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Just hit lvl 12, dismissing the t2 demon is pretty funny... a portal opens beneath it and desperately trys clawing at the pavement to keep from getting sucked down lol. It has a AE dam resist shield and a single target heal as well. I think I might try a MM again once this goes live.