Obsidian_Force2

I have no problem with informed decisions, but as we all know the first stop on how to build any AT is a stop here for most people who actually don't want to figure it out for themselves.

So when people who are percieved as experts in the field proclaim the use of specific powers pool or otherwise, the majority take it on faith that they do know what their talking about. I am not stating they do not. But,(and there is always a but) What I have recently noticed is a few people who proclaim the use of medicine pool are also the same people who suggest 1-2 slots (usually SO or common IO's) in Stygian Circle is plenty. There is no way 1-2 non-set slots in Stygian Circle is enough to keep up with the healing AND endurance needs of most active aggressive WS's.

In combat a poorly slotted Stygian Circle cannot keep up with the healing needed for most WS's and Medicine pool is all but useless if your taking any mount of consistant damage due to interrupts.

I feel this is an important fact completely left out in most discussions on this topic. If your waiting till after the fight to use medicine to heal up why didn't you stygian the last corpse or two when the fight was concluded?

If your using it during combat you have used extra slots on a tight build to get the interrupt time down (that could have just gone into Stygian anyways) or your praying to the Kheldian gods that nothing breathes on you while your using your little tricorder.

My main beef is you cannot suggest that a WS needs medicine pool and at the same time not properly slot and use Stygian Circle as if it was your main form of healing (which it is). Have you ever heard of a regeneration scrapper just 1-3 slotting Reconstruction but taking medicine pool because they don't have enough healing? No. It's silly because if they had just slotted up recon properly they could have saved the power pick and slots they put into medicine pool. To me it's the same thing.

No memo but when a significant number of well known forum board members endorse this in builds I feel it requires a counter point.

Oooo forgot that one, but I can make do with mire.

[ QUOTE ]
I highly recommend the Medicine Pool. Aid Other won't do you much good without slots but the other powers have fairly good utility out of the box. Stimulant will let you respond to those calls of "Zzz" if the buffer's busy. Aid Self can be useful on a Warshade if you need HP and there aren't any bodies around to fuel Stygian. Resucitate will give you a means of getting team mates off the floor and pairs well with Shadow Recall for recovering from team wipes.

I hadn't thought of taking Grant Invisibility but that's another useful choice.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry. I tried to stay out of this and let the thread live on. I really did.

I have to dissagree with most of what you said. It's not personal just a different perspective.

1.The self heal isn't that great "out of the box" it requires slots to be moderately effective. And we are already slot starved as it is.

2. If you see the "ZZzz's" let the buffer handle it and kill the offending mobs, or failing that use dwarf to taunt the mezzing mob off them. If the buffer is too busy to handle it he is probably doing your job of killing mobs anyways.

3. If there aren't any bodies around to heal from your not playing aggressively enough and you need to go make some more corpses. Only an idle or hessitant warshade ever lacks corpses to heal (or explode or pet) from.

4. Resucitate will rezz people from a team wipe. This is true. So will the day job accolade power and combining inspirations, and this won't turn you into a 4th rate healorz who everyone expects to be jonny on the spot doing "your job healing and rezzing people". But thats very limited on uses you say? Then rezz the guy whos power sets actually include a real rezz power and let him do "his job".

This is mainly a philisophical gripe as after 40 you do have the powers to spare for this kinda thing. But it relagates the Kheldian to jobs that aren't theirs and gives other players the impression that "good Khelds" should take these powers to be effective in what they do. Yet none of the powers listed are what we do any more than they would be for a katana/Dark armor scrapper to be good at what he does.

It is only the lack of common knowledge reguarding Kheldians that allow people to form opinions around the taking or not taking of specific pool powers to indicate whether(sp) a specific Kheldian build is good or bad. Were it common knowledge that Kheldians were first and foremost damage dealing psychos like blasters and tanks and scrappers and not pseudo healor controller defenders I wouldn't raise a fuss everytime this is mentioned.

Once again I appologize for my annoying manner of saying these things everytime the topic comes up, but I do feel a counterpoint needs to be made so that the consensus isn't "Khelds should probably take medicine to be good".

My personal favorites are these. (excluding purples)
Stygian Circle/Eclipse: Efficacy Adapter.

Melee attacks (Dwarf attacks and Gravity Well): Touch of Death, Makos Bite and Crushing Impact.

Ranged Damage (Squid+Human Blasts):
Devastation,Decimation,Thunderstrike.

Targeted AOE (Squid form AOE's): Positrons Blast.

PBAOE (Mires+Nukes): Obliteration or Erradication(SP).

Ressists: Titainium Coating or Impervium Armor.

Everyone has their personal favorites but these are what I use.

If it helps this is the build i'm currently using

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Obsidian Force: Level 50 Science Warshade
Primary Power Set: Umbral Blast
Secondary Power Set: Umbral Aura
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Shadow Bolt -- HO:Nucle(A)
Level 1: Absorption -- S'fstPrt-ResKB:30(A)
Level 2: Ebon Eye -- HO:Nucle(A)
Level 4: Gravity Shield -- Aegis-Psi/Status:40(A)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:40(A)
Level 8: Swift -- Run-I:40(A)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:40(A), RechRdx-I:40(11), RechRdx-I:40(11)
Level 12: Dark Nova -- GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx:40(A), GSFC-ToHit:40(13), GSFC-Build%:40(13)
Level 14: Sunless Mire -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:40(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:40(15), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:40(15)
Level 16: Shadow Cloak -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:40(A)
Level 18: Gravity Well -- Hectmb-Acc/Rchg:50(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(19), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg:50(19), Hectmb-Dmg:50(21), Hectmb-Dam%:50(21)
Level 20: Black Dwarf -- TtmC'tng-ResDam:40(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/Rchg:40(23), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx:40(23), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(25)
Level 22: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:40(A), RgnTis-Regen+:30(25), Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(27)
Level 24: Stygian Circle -- Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx:40(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc:40(27), Efficacy-EndMod:40(29), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg:40(29), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg:40(31), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:40(31)
Level 26: Gravitic Emanation -- Amaze-Acc/Rchg:50(A), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg:50(31)
Level 28: Unchain Essence -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:40(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(33), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:40(33), Posi-Dmg/Rng:40(33), Posi-Dam%:40(34)
Level 30: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod:40(A)
Level 32: Dark Extraction -- S'bndAl-Acc/Rchg:50(A), S'bndAl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(37), S'bndAl-Dmg/Rchg:50(37), S'bndAl-Dmg:50(39), S'bndAl-Build%:50(39), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:40(39)
Level 35: Quasar -- Oblit-Acc/Rchg:40(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:40(40), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:40(40), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:40(40), Oblit-Dmg:40(42)
Level 38: Eclipse -- Efficacy-Acc/Rchg:40(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:40(42), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc:40(42), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg:40(43), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx:40(43)
Level 41: Inky Aspect -- Acc-I:40(A)
Level 44: Nebulous Form -- Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:40(A)
Level 47: Twilight Shield -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A)
Level 49: Stygian Return -- Mrcl-Heal:40(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth:40(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Dark Sustenance
Level 1: Shadow Step -- Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:40(A)
Level 10: Shadow Recall -- TSM'n-Rng:40(A)
------------
Level 12: Dark Nova Bolt -- Decim-Acc/Dmg:40(A), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:40(3), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:40(3), Decim-Dmg/Rchg:40(5), Decim-Build%:40(5)
Level 12: Dark Nova Blast -- Apoc-Acc/Rchg:50(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(7), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg:50(7), Apoc-Dmg:50(9), Apoc-Dam%:50(9)
Level 12: Dark Nova Emanation -- Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg:50(A), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(17), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg:50(17), Ragnrk-Dmg:50(34), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(34)
Level 12: Dark Nova Detonation -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:40(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(36), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:40(36), Posi-Dmg/Rng:40(36), Posi-Dam%:40(37)
Level 20: Black Dwarf Strike -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg:40(A), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(43), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg:40(45), T'Death-Dam%:40(45)
Level 20: Black Dwarf Smite -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg:40(A), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(45), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg:40(46), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx:40(46)
Level 20: Black Dwarf Mire -- Oblit-Acc/Rchg:40(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:40(46), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:40(48)
Level 20: Black Dwarf Drain -- Mako-Acc/Dmg:40(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:40(48), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:40(48), Mako-Dmg/Rchg:40(50), Numna-Heal:40(50), Numna-Heal/Rchg:40(50)
Level 20: Black Dwarf Step -- Winter-ResSlow:40(A)
Level 20: Black Dwarf Antagonize -- Zinger-Acc/Rchg:40(A)
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]30% DamageBuff(Smashing)[*]30% DamageBuff(Lethal)[*]30% DamageBuff(Fire)[*]30% DamageBuff(Cold)[*]30% DamageBuff(Energy)[*]30% DamageBuff(Negative)[*]30% DamageBuff(Toxic)[*]30% DamageBuff(Psionic)[*]3% Defense(Smashing)[*]3% Defense(Lethal)[*]3% Defense(Fire)[*]3% Defense(Cold)[*]3% Defense(Energy)[*]3% Defense(Negative)[*]3% Defense(Psionic)[*]3% Defense(Melee)[*]3% Defense(Ranged)[*]3% Defense(AoE)[*]2.25% Max End[*]73.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]57% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]5% FlySpeed[*]184.7 HP (17.2%) HitPoints[*]5% JumpHeight[*]5% JumpSpeed[*]Knockback (Mag -4)[*]Knockup (Mag -4)[*]MezResist(Held) 4.4%[*]MezResist(Immobilize) 11.6%[*]MezResist(Sleep) 2.2%[*]MezResist(Stun) 8.8%[*]20% (0.33 End/sec) Recovery[*]64% (2.86 HP/sec) Regeneration[*]20% ResEffect(FlySpeed)[*]20% ResEffect(RechargeTime)[*]20% ResEffect(RunSpeed)[*]8.19% Resistance(Fire)[*]8.19% Resistance(Cold)[*]2.25% Resistance(Psionic)[*]5% RunSpeed[/list]

Plasma makes a few good arguments.
I personaly like the extra slotting on the stygiancircle myself as the ungodly recharge means it's never unavailable to me and I do use the set bonuses from 5 slotting Efficacy Adapter in it and 5 slotting the same set into Eclipse as I find it provided the acc/recharge I like along with a nice endurance boost, and with just a few mobs it caps my ressists anyways.

Although I only use 1 LoTG in my build I still maintain a quite nice 156% global recharge and managed to do it without dipping into my personaly hated pool powers (not that powers are in short supply compaired to slots but..).

Plasma's advice is sound but right now were down to basicly style preferances, so go the route you think fits your play style best.

Blasters and corruptors can have our stygian circle when we get their...ok, forget it. They don't have anything we need or want. They will just have to get by as subpar warshade wannabes.

BWAHAHAHAHA. ..ahem..ok.
5 slotted Obliteration in Quasar :20 million influence

4 slotted Obliterationx2 in Mires :40 million influence

Double mired nuke that turns entire groups of mobs to smithereens, up every 90 seconds. :Priceless.

Anything still alive is being killed by your 2-3 fuzzy balls of DOOOOM, all you have to do is soak up the remains with your Stygian Circle blotter as your leaving to pounce on group 2 with a quick Gravity Well kill (slotted for damage not hold) then Unchain Essence the poor unsuspecting bastards into oblivion before your second mire runs out. Your literaly onto group 3 before they can blink with full health and endurance.
Not situational at all IMHO.

I so wanted to 6 slot it, but I just couldn't eek out that last slot. But 5 does me very well (Efficacy Adapters ftw).

I will simply repost my PM to posi here to show my feelings.

Username: Positron

Subject: Squid hate in i16

There you go again trying to keep the squid down.
No power customization for your Kheldian brothers and sisters?
Have you no shame?

Don't we fight the same bad guys, do the same TF's and run the same story arcs as the humans all with a kryptonite enemy lurking behind every corner?

I see how it is."Earth for Humans!" and all that... I get it.
trying to keep the Squidman down.
You will all rue the day when we all band together and go rogue on your sorry butts...Unless were excluded from that too.... (Only partialy kidding. Other than my dissappointment in Kheldians being left out of the loop on this very important game update this looks to be the best issue I have ever seen in my entire 5 years with you guys. Nice work.)

P.S. Could you please explain what is it about the Veats and Heats that makes it more difficult to allow them the same customization options as the other AT's?

The build looks very good to me.

Not many pool powers, no attempts to make it anything but a fighting machine.
The pain of agreeing with xenite may kill me but you do need at least one KB ressist IO. :P

Additionaly I would do less frankenslotting on alot of the powers and get more from the main sets your using as I believe the set bonuses end up better than the few percentage points you get from crossing over sets.

Honestly, the only thing I would probably do diferently is slot the Gravity Well with your Hecatome set (the amount of recharge in Heca allows you to perma hold bosses and the damage in human form is beautiful.) and use ToD or Makos in the dwarf attack, slot an extra slot into Absorbtion for the KB ressist IO and slot a stealth run or jump IO into one of your sprints. Otherwise very nice build indeed.

/macro human "powexec_toggle_off bright nova$$powexec_toggle_off white dwarf$$powexec_toggle_on shining shield".

+Recharge, +Accuracy, +Damage, +Hit Points, +Regeneration, +Recovery.
in about that order...
I do not dissagree with def builds at all, I just find if you have the acc/dam/recharge and squid form, mobs don't live long enough to actually need worry about having defence when your ressists are perma or nearly perma capped.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really bother with +Recharge. 30s is short enough for me. If you really need it more often than that you're probably running at a difficult that your build can't handle.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have to dissagree here. If we were talking about a regen scrappers heal would you actually say by improving their recharge they were probably playing at a setting to tough for their build? or would they be able to play at that setting because they "HAD" improved their build? A well built Kheldian should have zero problem playing on invinicible/setting 5 exactly as any other well built character. We really have to stop applying different standards to kheldians as if they were a broken or substandard AT unable to do what other AT's can do.

I use 5 slots of Efficacy Adapter in it. I like the bonuses and the endurance recovery/recharge of the set and I find with just 2 bodies and my own natural regen it tops or nearly tops me off on health.

I'll try to be nice and polite on this one.
Powers I concider manditory from the primary and secondary.
Sunless Mire (3-5 total slots)
Gravitic Emmanation (2-4 total slots)
Gravity Well (4-5 total slots)
Stygian Circle (4-5 total slots)
Eclipse (4-5 total slots)
Dark Extraction (5-6 total slots)
Unchain Essence (4-5 total slots)
Shadow Cloak (1-2 total slots)
Inky Aspect (1-2 total slots)
*Dark Nova (2-3 slots +12-16 added slots in squid powers)
*Black Dwarf (3-5 slots +12-16 added slots in dwarf powers)

*see comments below


I will grudgingly admit to human only being "viable", but I will also contend (if you have the money to compensate for lack of slots with IO sets) that a Tri-Form will always outperform a mono or dual build WS simply because you will never be without the perfect tool for every situation.

No matter how pimped out a human only shade is they cannot tank (Tank meaning hold agro, not the I can take buttloads of damage and not die while my team is screaming help me type of Tanking), and a squid form will always outdamage the human forms attacks (outside of the 2 nukes) especialy if your building alot of recharge so you have a flawless chain of squid attacks.

That being said if you don't care to tank and don't mind having less damage in your chain of attacks then the forms are not really required.

I admit perma-Mind Link on a Defence based toon is very nice, and I have not ever tried Venom Grenade, but i still prefer my Eclipse, Mire, squid form, and 3 pets for dealing massive aoe damage.

I completely respect that Mngwa.

I would be totaly lying if I claimed to not be biased on the whole Heat vs Veat topic, but it completely ruffles my tentacles when people come into these things with the "Veats are obviously superior in design and effectiveness of play" philosophy, or worse yet the attempts to get the developers to change the Kheldians into another "Toggle it and forget it, immune to every type of status effect in game, Checkers level AT."

Kheldians are Kheldians and should be played as such. Not yet another scrapper/tank/controller/blaster/defender knock off. We have our own style.
Thank you but no. I'll stick with Chess.

I have both a level 50 Widow and a level 50 Warshade, both heavily IO'ed out, both extreamly effectively built for their respective AT's.
There is no doubt in my mind my shade outperforms the widow in 90 out of 100 missions both solo and on teams, and not just by a small margine...

[ QUOTE ]
So what do you do about mezzers though? This is the thing that really has me hung up. I did an all Human PB and it was really fun until I started running into mezzes and knockback around every corner.

I know that there's IOs for knockback but how do you handle the mez?

[/ QUOTE ]

Switch to dwarf form....

[ QUOTE ]
although I've heard good things about Khelds and the Medicine pool (it's particularly attractive for the Rez power).

[/ QUOTE ]
*Facepalm*
[ QUOTE ]
[*] The Medicine Pool, while being a good choice for either Kheldian, grants them no advantage while solo and when on a team, does not add the role of Combat-Medic to the Kheldian! Do not make the grave mistake of thinking that just because you can take the Medicine Pool you've suddenly become a Healer. Healing is first and foremost for Defenders and Controllers and Kheldians would see a much better use of their energy in fighting to protect the team so that the dedicated Defender/Controller can perform their duties.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you for this clarification.

[ QUOTE ]
I seem to always think about what it may be like to have a Human-only build, but I never actually get to doing it because TriForming is too much fun! YMMV of course.

[/ QUOTE ]

You speak true words.
In other news: My tanker skipped 2 of his shield toggles and I cannot figure out why he isn't performing as well as other tanks....
Be honest, was that too obvious? You can tell me..I can take it.

I haave to dissagree with the "not worth it" comment on the build up proc in any squid form. According to hero stats its 10 seconds duration and it procs more often than not for me.
YMMV. I have it in 2 WS's and a PB and in all cases it serves me well.

I figured as much. I just had to make the joke.
As an aside, am I the only one who loves the ripping sound of a well placed mire? Kinda reminds me of the old Fulcrum Shift sound...