Human only PB/WS as compared to other ATs

I'm considering starting a peacebringer and a warshade. However, I don't have any interest in the non-human forms. I know not taking them gives up a lot of power and flexibility, but for me it's human-only or not at all. So, how do human-only Kheldians compare to the other ATs? Are there any advantages other than getting the travel power early? Are there interesting things you can do with the human-only variety that you can't do better with the other ATs?

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Virtue
Angel Witch II - Chord of Souls - Storm Witch II - Princess of the Dawn - Standing Horse - Witch of Xymox
Silent Scream - Shadow Witch II - Liquid Serenade - Nebulous Dawn - Ghost Witch II -Xiberia

Well, Human-only Kheldians are a mixture of the following elements:

1. No Human-form mez protection unless you're with Controllers/Dominators.
2. Debuffing in each attack; DefDebuff for PB; Slow/Recharge for WS.
3. Shields.
4. Some ranged attacks.
5. Some melee attacks.
6. A melee hold.
7. Some stuns.
8. Self heal powers.
9. Self buff powers.
10. Self rez power.
11. Awesome pet for WS; mini-pet/mini-nuke for PB.
12. Two wonderful shield powers that stack with the normal shields.

The trouble with Kheldians though is that they have to be extremely active at all times. So if you're used to aggressive gameplay, you should be fine, but if you're used to the strategic combat a Controller/Defender can engage in, you may find yourself biting more than can chew at first, especially soloing the Kheldian story-arcs. Just hang in there, both Kheldians are somewhat late bloomers, Warshades more than Peacebringers at that.

Another important advice, play both AT's and read every guide you can find in the Kheldian Guide Section.

Oh... and most importantly, Welcome!

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I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!

Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati

As LX said, Khelds are late bloomers - Human Onlies more so. They have they're own style, which takes a bit of patience to figure out, but there's no AT I feel that overshadows me.

My Human Only PB can solo any arc or story that doesn't have an AV. Even Crimson's Malta arc and Harvey Maylor's Carnie arc was just a higher challenge - I soloed 90% of both without undue difficulty.

Just always make sure you take out Mezzers and Sappers first - l go for them even before I do Qs and Vs. Doing this should keep you from having to carry a busload of Breakfrees. I carry 5 at most, and always try to have at least 5. Use the 3-1 Insp trade if you have to.

On teams, I usually feel like the most powerful member on the team. Often I'm doing near scrapper-level damage with near-capped Resistance, but I also have a lot of AoEs and Ranged attacks. Oh yeah, and Nukes and Heals.

If you're playing a PB, small hint - get a -KB IO. I recommend putting it in Combat Flight (which you shouldn't use that much, as a PB). You'll be in Melee alot and you don't want to get smacked on your butt constantly.

Hope you enjoy Human Only as much as I do...

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I enjoy my Human WS. I tried many times to fit in the forms, though I like, I flat out could not afford to spread so few slots around and still be effective at my current level(33). Though the non-mired damage is nothing special and the AoE is harder to use, there are several unique, cool powers that makes it work. I imagine once I get my Essence slotted up, my damage will take off, fixing the one hole I mind, just in time for Eclipse.

My plan is to later down the road use my 2nd build as a tri-former with a strong emphasis on Nova/Dwarf. May be a pain due to the 15m cooldown(which is retarded) but I should be able to tell ahead of time which I'll need.

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May be a pain due to the 15m cooldown(which is retarded) but I should be able to tell ahead of time which I'll need.

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What do you mean by this?

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I think it's in reference to the time period you have to wait before switching between builds in the Dual Builds feature. If you switch from your Human-Only build to your Tri-Form build, for instance, you have to wait 15 minutes before you can switch back again.

Since most missions or other activities take longer than fifteen minutes to do (hell, most teams take about that long just to form), I'm not sure why it's so 'retarded'. It's not like it's an hour, or three days. It's fifteen minutes. The only trouble I can see is if you changed prior to a mission and then subsequently decided you ought to have remained in the other build - but even then, by the time you got to the mission, got far enough in to make that determination and returned to a trainer to make the switch, chances are you're getting close to fifteen minutes.

Unless the point was there should be no time limit imposed at all, but I can see the reasoning behind not allowing players to sit there and toggle between their builds ten times a minute.

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With great power comes great RTFM -- Lady Sadako
Iscariot's Guide to the Tri-Form Warshade, version 2.1
I'm sorry that math > your paranoid delusions, but them's the breaks -- Nethergoat
P.E.R.C. Rep for Liberty server

Aha, thanks Justaris.

As for instantaneous build switching... yeah that would be "interesting."

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As for instantaneous build switching... yeah that would be "interesting."

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I think the term you're looking for would be "game breaking"

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I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!

Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati

Which would also be interesting.

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With great power comes great RTFM -- Lady Sadako
Iscariot's Guide to the Tri-Form Warshade, version 2.1
I'm sorry that math > your paranoid delusions, but them's the breaks -- Nethergoat
P.E.R.C. Rep for Liberty server

Well, for a few minutes perhaps...

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I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!

Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati

Thanks for the feedback. I'm still contemplating this. I remember being pretty discouraged with it in early levels because voids or quantums (don't remember which I'd run into) were killing me with ease.

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Virtue
Angel Witch II - Chord of Souls - Storm Witch II - Princess of the Dawn - Standing Horse - Witch of Xymox
Silent Scream - Shadow Witch II - Liquid Serenade - Nebulous Dawn - Ghost Witch II -Xiberia

I've always maintained that raising a TriForm Kheldian through the levels, and then somewhere after Lightform for PB's and Eclipse for WS's and before your 40's you can definitely respec into a Human-only build and then have all the fun you want with a Human-only Kheldian.

Nowadays, with dual-builds it's even easier because you get to keep two builds for one character, oddly enough though, for my own Kheldians, I seem to always think about what it may be like to have a Human-only build, but I never actually get to doing it because TriForming is too much fun! YMMV of course.

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I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!

Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati

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I seem to always think about what it may be like to have a Human-only build, but I never actually get to doing it because TriForming is too much fun! YMMV of course.

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You speak true words.
In other news: My tanker skipped 2 of his shield toggles and I cannot figure out why he isn't performing as well as other tanks....
Be honest, was that too obvious? You can tell me..I can take it.

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If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.

My favorite WS Alt i play is my Human only. They are late bloomers no doubt, but that's for when they crank up their effectivness to be truly powerful. I personally notice for a WS they feel comfortable rght after they get Stygian Circle, and a PB right after Stamina but more like right after Solar Flare.

Now as for my WS, she's a tricky build using the Presence Pool and skipping Gravatic Emenation (I just didn't like the KB, no matter how stunning it is). I notice Solo she's very effective and I have no problems on difficulty 5 mission but on a team i feel frightening. Granted it was at 38 when I got Eclipse when I hit my stride but even before that I was scary, but now I'm in there right next to the Tank, do damage near as impressive as the Scrapper, and control mobs nearly as well as a Controller. I know, this is the usual spiel of a WS fanboi but it is amazing when even a gimpy build gets compliments from teamates.

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I am loving my PB. I feel like I can fit into any team and take on a few different roles if there is a gap in the team. I have found leveling up my PB, that I almost needed to have Nova form in the early levels, and now that I have Dwarf, I am able to stand in with tanks.

(As a side note I have noticed many tanks which do not take taunt. When I am in dwarf form I use taunt constantly, and find that I am able to compliment, even sometimes overshadow the tanks that do not have it / use it)

Recently I took on a side kick and did a mission, he was a scrapper and ran into a room before me. I was in human form about to 'charge up'. I ran in, pulsar, solar flare, Essence Boost, Conserve Energy, Hasten, Build up. He was almost dead at this point and I had taken half my health by the time I had activated these powers. I switched to dwarf form, scrapper fell, and my resistance dropped slightly. I gulped 2 small lucks, 1 small resist, 1 small damage, and took on two groups with the scrapper lying at my feet. I used sublimation to keep my health around 1/4 and saw my end slowly increasing. about 3/4 of the way through the groups the scrapper said "wow, you are amazing".

Ok, I used some insp, so not "that" amazing, but still nice to hear. Really nice to hear considering my dwarf form has 3 slots (2 resist 1 end reduction), and only 1 dwarf attack has slots (4 slots 1 is damage).

I think for someone looking for some versatility this is the AT for you!!

Gorgar, I used my Nova form from level 6 to level 20. and even then I would switch it up to Nova from time to time when some damage needed to be dished out. It takes time for each form to develop, so although my Dwarf gets compliments, at level 27 this form is not complete.

I can understand why this AT is reserved for people who have acheived lvl50. Although I consider myself a smart person I have found this AT to be very complicated, and require a great deal of micro management.

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At level 50, my PB's Human Form is simply more effective than her Alt. Tri-Form build, and of course it's much easier to play.

As many have pointed out, however, it's sometimes not ease of play that draws people to Kheldians, but the challenge of shapeshifting at the right times, etc. Not for me (I prefer the Blappery/Tankery maxed out Human Form), but I can empathize with them.

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My favorite WS Alt i play is my Human only. They are late bloomers no doubt, but that's for when they crank up their effectivness to be truly powerful. I personally notice for a WS they feel comfortable rght after they get Stygian Circle, and a PB right after Stamina but more like right after Solar Flare.

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Thanks! That's kind of what I was looking for. Several helpful replies here, thanks everyone. I'll probably push a pair of human-only to somewhere around those two levels before I make further judgements.

And yeah, I know, it's way more flexible if I take other forms even if I don't plan to use them at 50, but I'm more concerned with the journey than the destination. I just couldn't tell from early experiments what this was going to look like later on, unlike say an energy blaster, which (for me at least) felt like level 50 was a logical extension of what she could do at level 1.

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Virtue
Angel Witch II - Chord of Souls - Storm Witch II - Princess of the Dawn - Standing Horse - Witch of Xymox
Silent Scream - Shadow Witch II - Liquid Serenade - Nebulous Dawn - Ghost Witch II -Xiberia

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...And yeah, I know, it's way more flexible if I take other forms even if I don't plan to use them at 50, but I'm more concerned with the journey than the destination. I just couldn't tell from early experiments what this was going to look like later on, unlike say an energy blaster, which (for me at least) felt like level 50 was a logical extension of what she could do at level 1.

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Good a reason as any. I leveled a PB 1-50 Human all the way for the same reasons. Maybe it's not as efficient, but it's not all that bad either...

IMO, changing play styles so radically (via respecs) so late in a build is almost akin to being able to switch another toon's AT at level 40 or so, something I've heard most people say is not a good idea because "then you won't know how to play it".

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IMO, changing play styles so radically (via respecs) so late in a build is almost akin to being able to switch another toon's AT at level 40 or so, something I've heard most people say is not a good idea because "then you won't know how to play it".

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In my opinion, it allows you to re-learn and get re-acquainted with your "new" character... new fun from an old toon is always good in my book. Now if only I could get myself to actually follow-up on my opinion and actually use my 2nd build on my PB/WS characters for Human-only...

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I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!

Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati

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IMO, changing play styles so radically (via respecs) so late in a build is almost akin to being able to switch another toon's AT at level 40 or so, something I've heard most people say is not a good idea because "then you won't know how to play it".

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In my opinion, it allows you to re-learn and get re-acquainted with your "new" character... new fun from an old toon is always good in my book. Now if only I could get myself to actually follow-up on my opinion and actually use my 2nd build on my PB/WS characters for Human-only...

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Maybe, but I think what I said has some merit. I built a strong Tri-Form for my duel build (per guides I've read anyway), and I simply cannot use it the way you and many others describe doing things (constant shapeshifting, binds, etcs.) with your tri-forms.

Certainly I could learn, but why bother? My Human form is so good at 50 there's no need. But this much is true - trying to play a fully slotted Tri-Form in a late build is literally like having a Scrapper that you respecced into a Blaster. It's completely different. The only success I've had is when I've been on large teams, as you've said, and more or less just stayed in Nova, blasting away. I imagine going from Tri-Form to Human Only is comparable...

There's a thread someone started recently about being able to respec into another AT. For the most part, that thread was viciously shot down. I guess I don't see how some of Khelds respecs, with the resulting major change in gameplay, is so radically different.

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You're absolutely right Socorro, and that's probably why I never bother to learn to play a Human-only Kheldian. I mean, of course I could, but like you say, why bother?

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I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!

Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati

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I've always maintained that raising a TriForm Kheldian through the levels, and then somewhere after Lightform for PB's and Eclipse for WS's and before your 40's you can definitely respec into a Human-only build and then have all the fun you want with a Human-only Kheldian.


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This.

I swear by my Human-only builds (both PB and WS), but my 2nd build (on both) is a tri-former with emphasis on Dwarf and Nova forms...

I agree completely that making a tri-former (as in taking Nova form the moment it's available) when leveling up your Kheld for the first time is a HUGE bonus in survivability... Human-only builds take a lot of time to build and master (I'm still tweaking mine after over a year of playing around with the Human-only form--moving a slot here, changing an IO there, checking the advantages of franken-slotting there, etc...)

But, I gotta tell 'ya... I have more fun with my human-only WS than any of my 30-something other toons... And I enjoy playing my other toons! :P

"The One"

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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)

We should start a thread about which is more fun, a Human-only, a BiForm or a TriForm... then we'll see some heated up discussions...

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I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!

Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati

Fun is subjective but I can tell you which is hardest for me to make builds. I really need more slots for the forms.

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total kick to the gut

This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.

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We should start a thread about which is more fun, a Human-only, a BiForm or a TriForm... then we'll see some heated up discussions...

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My first Warshade (now 50) was levelled up as a triform and when not using it to stealth through missions she essentially stayed in either nova or dwarf depending on how prevalent mezzes were and dropped to human form in order to use the long(ish) recharge nifty powers like Eclipse, Dark Extraction, and so on as well as to let Hasten autofire when I noticed it recharged.

I had planned out a human-only build for her but never got around to doing it because one of the things I liked was the general versatility. I'm weaning myself off of triform, though: my second Warshade, currently level 24, is Human/Nova and Human/Dwarf on her two builds just to allow me to focus slots (and since I used the freespec given to make the Human/Dwarf build all of the attacks in that form have 5 slots already at level 24 ).

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