Well... I kind of picked powers that allowed me to ignore them as far as slots went. I ended up picking Combat Jumping, Super Jumping and three from the Medicine pool. I put no slots in them, so I kind of got free slots for other powers, since everything I picked works just fine with no enhancements on them.
I'd look for powers that while you may not be excited about them, they still provide a minor function you couldn't do before with no slots. Things like Grant Invisibility or the like. I kind of used a couple of them for IO procs or sets (Super Jump is going to get some Zephar, Combat Jumping got a LotG, etc) so that while I do get utility from it, it makes the 'not so exciting powers' a bit more exciting.
I highly recommend the Medicine Pool. Aid Other won't do you much good without slots but the other powers have fairly good utility out of the box. Stimulant will let you respond to those calls of "Zzz" if the buffer's busy. Aid Self can be useful on a Warshade if you need HP and there aren't any bodies around to fuel Stygian. Resucitate will give you a means of getting team mates off the floor and pairs well with Shadow Recall for recovering from team wipes.
I hadn't thought of taking Grant Invisibility but that's another useful choice.
[ QUOTE ]
I highly recommend the Medicine Pool. Aid Other won't do you much good without slots but the other powers have fairly good utility out of the box. Stimulant will let you respond to those calls of "Zzz" if the buffer's busy. Aid Self can be useful on a Warshade if you need HP and there aren't any bodies around to fuel Stygian. Resucitate will give you a means of getting team mates off the floor and pairs well with Shadow Recall for recovering from team wipes.
I hadn't thought of taking Grant Invisibility but that's another useful choice.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry. I tried to stay out of this and let the thread live on. I really did.
I have to dissagree with most of what you said. It's not personal just a different perspective.
1.The self heal isn't that great "out of the box" it requires slots to be moderately effective. And we are already slot starved as it is.
2. If you see the "ZZzz's" let the buffer handle it and kill the offending mobs, or failing that use dwarf to taunt the mezzing mob off them. If the buffer is too busy to handle it he is probably doing your job of killing mobs anyways.
3. If there aren't any bodies around to heal from your not playing aggressively enough and you need to go make some more corpses. Only an idle or hessitant warshade ever lacks corpses to heal (or explode or pet) from.
4. Resucitate will rezz people from a team wipe. This is true. So will the day job accolade power and combining inspirations, and this won't turn you into a 4th rate healorz who everyone expects to be jonny on the spot doing "your job healing and rezzing people". But thats very limited on uses you say? Then rezz the guy whos power sets actually include a real rezz power and let him do "his job".
This is mainly a philisophical gripe as after 40 you do have the powers to spare for this kinda thing. But it relagates the Kheldian to jobs that aren't theirs and gives other players the impression that "good Khelds" should take these powers to be effective in what they do. Yet none of the powers listed are what we do any more than they would be for a katana/Dark armor scrapper to be good at what he does.
It is only the lack of common knowledge reguarding Kheldians that allow people to form opinions around the taking or not taking of specific pool powers to indicate whether(sp) a specific Kheldian build is good or bad. Were it common knowledge that Kheldians were first and foremost damage dealing psychos like blasters and tanks and scrappers and not pseudo healor controller defenders I wouldn't raise a fuss everytime this is mentioned.
Once again I appologize for my annoying manner of saying these things everytime the topic comes up, but I do feel a counterpoint needs to be made so that the consensus isn't "Khelds should probably take medicine to be good".
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
[ QUOTE ]
...I do feel a counterpoint needs to be made so that the consensus isn't "Khelds should probably take medicine to be good".
[/ QUOTE ]
Woah!!!! I've never, ever, heard that this was the consensus. 
Did I again, miss a memo?! 
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
No memo but when a significant number of well known forum board members endorse this in builds I feel it requires a counter point.
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
It's not that your counter point doesn't have a point... but there's still the real issue of having to take powers at Lv47, and by that time, some of the available power choices do not seem to contribute to the individual Warshade-player above and beyond what their current build already accomplishes. So... they dip into the pools.
The only question that remains, is, do they dip into the pools because they're copying someone elses' build, or because someone told them to, or are they doing so with a firm resolution and clear knowledge that the powers they reject are not worthy of their interest?
As long as people clearly know what they're giving up in exchange for Pool Powers, and as long as they build their Warshades to fulfill their perceived role(s) on a team, I for one see no problem with their decisions.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
I have no problem with informed decisions, but as we all know the first stop on how to build any AT is a stop here for most people who actually don't want to figure it out for themselves.
So when people who are percieved as experts in the field proclaim the use of specific powers pool or otherwise, the majority take it on faith that they do know what their talking about. I am not stating they do not. But,(and there is always a but) What I have recently noticed is a few people who proclaim the use of medicine pool are also the same people who suggest 1-2 slots (usually SO or common IO's) in Stygian Circle is plenty. There is no way 1-2 non-set slots in Stygian Circle is enough to keep up with the healing AND endurance needs of most active aggressive WS's.
In combat a poorly slotted Stygian Circle cannot keep up with the healing needed for most WS's and Medicine pool is all but useless if your taking any mount of consistant damage due to interrupts.
I feel this is an important fact completely left out in most discussions on this topic. If your waiting till after the fight to use medicine to heal up why didn't you stygian the last corpse or two when the fight was concluded?
If your using it during combat you have used extra slots on a tight build to get the interrupt time down (that could have just gone into Stygian anyways) or your praying to the Kheldian gods that nothing breathes on you while your using your little tricorder.
My main beef is you cannot suggest that a WS needs medicine pool and at the same time not properly slot and use Stygian Circle as if it was your main form of healing (which it is). Have you ever heard of a regeneration scrapper just 1-3 slotting Reconstruction but taking medicine pool because they don't have enough healing? No. It's silly because if they had just slotted up recon properly they could have saved the power pick and slots they put into medicine pool. To me it's the same thing.
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
[ QUOTE ]
2. If you see the "ZZzz's" let the buffer handle it and kill the offending mobs, or failing that use dwarf to taunt the mezzing mob off them. If the buffer is too busy to handle it he is probably doing your job of killing mobs anyways.
[/ QUOTE ]
... Or there's not a "buffer." Not every team is going to have one, or have one that can do jack about a sleep/hold/etc. (There's no "Wake me up arrow," f'rinstance.) As a single-slot power, Stimulant doesn't hurt if you have nothing else. I'd skip Aid Self or Aid Other, true. But pre-Dwarf-While-Mezzed, my 'shade picked it up and it came in handy. It's not a "must have" power, though.
[ QUOTE ]
3. If there aren't any bodies around to heal from your not playing aggressively enough and you need to go make some more corpses. Only an idle or hessitant warshade ever lacks corpses to heal (or explode or pet) from.
[/ QUOTE ]
Or is in a fight that's taking longer than usual.
[ QUOTE ]
Once again I appologize for my annoying manner of saying these things everytime the topic comes up, but I do feel a counterpoint needs to be made so that the consensus isn't "Khelds should probably take medicine to be good".
[/ QUOTE ]
I have yet to see that as a "consensus." Just saying.
[ QUOTE ]
Well... I kind of picked powers that allowed me to ignore them as far as slots went. I ended up picking Combat Jumping, Super Jumping and three from the Medicine pool. I put no slots in them, so I kind of got free slots for other powers, since everything I picked works just fine with no enhancements on them.
I'd look for powers that while you may not be excited about them, they still provide a minor function you couldn't do before with no slots. Things like Grant Invisibility or the like. I kind of used a couple of them for IO procs or sets (Super Jump is going to get some Zephar, Combat Jumping got a LotG, etc) so that while I do get utility from it, it makes the 'not so exciting powers' a bit more exciting.
[/ QUOTE ]
The thing is, I don't want to have to shift into human form in mid combat just to do that stuff, and taking something that's only of limited usefulness to me seems a waste. I primarily roll in Nova and Dwarf form. I don't want to shift to human while in combat just to use Stimulant or Aid Other or whatever.
I don't think Tough carries over, otherwise I'd get that just for the added resistance, and I already have a stealth unique in sprint, so I'm covered in the personal sneakiness category.
I haven't tried it, but I imagine that the epic pool taunt/fear/etc only work in human form, as well, so that's of limited usefulness. I believe the leadership powers are the same way, or I'd consider one or two of them.
If there were a couple more Kheld powers worth taking it wouldn't be an issue, but there are several duplicated powers of lesser effect that I skip.
My Deviant Art page link-link
CoH/V Fan Videos
[ QUOTE ]
[...]and taking something that's only of limited usefulness to me seems a waste.
[/ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately, during the time you're talking about, it's really a matter of picking powers that are "less of a waste". The Medicine Pool has two powers that can help out a team that you can't duplicate with a WS (I don't do PBs well for some reason), so does one power in the Stealth Pool (Grant Invis).
So put a priority on how useless the powers are to you, based on when you can use them, and how useful they would be. For me, it goes like this:
Toggles are usually right out. I can't use them while shifting, so any combat based toggle I get is going to be useless. Also, I'd have to turn them back on again every time I shifted, which knowing how I play, would be a lot.
Auto Powers are a bit better, but now I have to factor in how useful they are. The Fitness Pool is the only source, and I know Endurance and Health aren't an issue for my WS. Ever. And moving around in combat isn't either, because of Nova form.
Click Powers are the only ones I take seriously, and it's these that I have to start comparing what they do VS how many slots they take up to be 'useful'. Add onto that that some click powers have effects that last longer (Grant Invis vs Boxing, for example), and I need to figure out which effects are worth having (would I rather give someone invisibility, or mez protection?)
That's why I tried to suggest things that help you out of combat. Your combat is covered. Nicely, I might add, by your Warshade powers. Power Pools aren't going to buff your combat abilities any better then what you have, so look for things that help you when you're not blasting the crap out of things.
Listen up guys! And listen GOOD cause I ain't gonna say this again!
The Medicine Pool is required, yes.. I said r-e-q-u-i-r-e-d on Kheldian Human-only support builds who are dedicated secondary support characters for All Kheldian Teams/SGs.
Even then, most use of Medicine Pool powers happens BEFORE the battle, and during battle only in emergencies such as attempting to keep your dedicated "tankers" alive.
I know this because I lead such an SG. Take my word for it, All Kheldain Teams are epic in every meaning of the word. Our victories are epic, and so are our failures!
In any other circumstance, the Medicine Pool, or any other Power Pool for that matter, is to be considered a luxury item. Sheesh! should someone write a guide for this?! 
Are we clear? 
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Well now that Xen has finished shamelessly plugging himself and the Umbra Illuminati we can get back to business
I was not implying that the Medicine Pool is required and I've certainly never seen any sort of consensus that would indicate such a thing. I recommended the powers in that particular pool because I have personal experience with them. They're certainly not game changing but they do give me an even greater level of utility than I already have on my Kheldians. The last few power choices on a Kheld are largely innocuous since you probably won't have enough slots to realize their potential. This is especially true for TriFormers.
That said, some other interesting options that'll provide added utility are Grant Invisibility, Intimidate and Invoke Panic. The latter two will see more use on Human Only builds but they can be useful on TriFormers as well. Particularly if you have Super Speed and some form of stealth that'll allow you to position yourself before initiating combat.
The Power Picks in the 40s are BLeh. I remember wishing I could sacrfice powers for slots.
[ QUOTE ]
Snip LordXenite having a [censored] fit.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are weird m8. 
Yeah, so Here's how I roll, at least:
Dwarfshade. You'll find no Nova on me.
The only pool powers I currently have are Hasten and Superspeed (For fun.) Hasten was required for my pets.
I do spend most of my time in Dwarf form. That being said, I think the only power I rarely use is Unchain Essence, but I've been told by a few that not hitting UE makes me a failure of a kheldian.
Yeah, no power pool stays with you when you change. Things like Hasten, that have a duration, will stick while you're in forms. Toggles, autopowers, and clickie powers, do not work when not in human form.
Which means you would have to find a power pool with a clickie duration buff, if you wanted to use a power pool. Yeah, your choices are very limited now.
All human form Kheldian? Sure, pick up aid other and stimulant. Sounds good. Kheldian former? Don't touch them. You should be killing with hasten up.
~The end
Well, *I* thought my post was funny...
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
heh it totaly was.
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
'Course! You sure are tough to keep alive, but it's worth it hehe
Symbiote., you're alive!!!!
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
[ QUOTE ]
I have difficulty figuring out what power selections I want in those 40's.
I dinged 47 on a Warshade yesterday, and spent probably over 10 minutes trying to figure out what I wanted to get, as there was nothing I really cared for. Some human-only usable powers that only duplicate other stuff, no chance for fly in human form, some shields that have limited usefulness to me, and some epic pool powers that only seem usable in human form. I finally settled on the aid other in the Med pool.
I remember thinking on my PB that I wished I could swap a power selection for more slots, and that held true here again.
Anyone having similar troubles, or have suggestions for those of us that tri-form and prefer Nova/Dwarf in combat? I don't really want anything that won't carry over to the forms, and I dislike the idea of grabbing a power just to slot an IO set for a bonus.
P.S. Devs - I'd *love* for our "epic pool" to just be the ability to choose slots instead of powers! 
[/ QUOTE ]
If you are shooting for perma eclipse or as close to perma as you can get it, perhaps Stealth, Grant Invis and Invis, no extra slots added to them and all 3 are slotted with an LOTG 7.5% recharge booster.....?
Also I agree that at 41+ Khelds should gain more slots for their powers.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have difficulty figuring out what power selections I want in those 40's.
I dinged 47 on a Warshade yesterday, and spent probably over 10 minutes trying to figure out what I wanted to get, as there was nothing I really cared for. Some human-only usable powers that only duplicate other stuff, no chance for fly in human form, some shields that have limited usefulness to me, and some epic pool powers that only seem usable in human form. I finally settled on the aid other in the Med pool.
I remember thinking on my PB that I wished I could swap a power selection for more slots, and that held true here again.
Anyone having similar troubles, or have suggestions for those of us that tri-form and prefer Nova/Dwarf in combat? I don't really want anything that won't carry over to the forms, and I dislike the idea of grabbing a power just to slot an IO set for a bonus.
P.S. Devs - I'd *love* for our "epic pool" to just be the ability to choose slots instead of powers!
[/ QUOTE ]
If you are shooting for perma eclipse or as close to perma as you can get it, perhaps Stealth, Grant Invis and Invis, no extra slots added to them and all 3 are slotted with an LOTG 7.5% recharge booster.....?
Also I agree that at 41+ Khelds should gain more slots for their powers.
[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree with additional slots, only because Kheldians can go different directions with a build (And all of them are awesome.) I'm afraid that adding more slots will standardize most Kheldians into the Tri-Former role, instead of someone making their own concept.
While I agree in spirit with Pipsy, the truth is the main reason imho Kheldians are STILL stamped with the gimp lable, is because they are not standardized as other AT's are. There ARE many ways to build a Kheldian and most will "work", but there is ALWAYS a most efficient, most effective manner to do anything.
This is why people found the perfected builds on other AT's. They realized that yes you can build it any way you like but with only a few alternate possibilities "this" one will yeild the best results.
Kheldians have never gone through this stage of the game because the high end players of the AT are ok with the Kheldians being the "scrapperish tank with jump kick and flurry attacks" concept characters. And nobody "myself included" is willing to accept that their methods might not be the most effective.
Their content to play the AT as what they invision it to be and not look at the hard performance numbers until a single (again with a few alternate options for individual taste) best type of build can be achieved.
And possibly worse yet when it is suggested that certain build ideas are performance wise superior, there is a general "well the way I do it works fine." attitude that wont argue that it's not a better numerical plan but also will not acknowledge that it is infact better than what they are doing so that other or new Kheldian players can take advantage of knowing what the most effective builds are.
This imho is what leaves the Kheldians in such a mediocre state as we have today.
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
[ QUOTE ]
While I agree in spirit with Pipsy, the truth is the main reason imho Kheldians are STILL stamped with the gimp lable, is because they are not standardized as other AT's are. There ARE many ways to build a Kheldian and most will "work", but there is ALWAYS a most efficient, most effective manner to do anything.
This is why people found the perfected builds on other AT's. They realized that yes you can build it any way you like but with only a few alternate possibilities "this" one will yeild the best results.
Kheldians have never gone through this stage of the game because the high end players of the AT are ok with the Kheldians being the "scrapperish tank with jump kick and flurry attacks" concept characters. And nobody "myself included" is willing to accept that their methods might not be the most effective.
Their content to play the AT as what they invision it to be and not look at the hard performance numbers until a single (again with a few alternate options for individual taste) best type of build can be achieved.
And possibly worse yet when it is suggested that certain build ideas are performance wise superior, there is a general "well the way I do it works fine." attitude that wont argue that it's not a better numerical plan but also will not acknowledge that it is infact better than what they are doing so that other or new Kheldian players can take advantage of knowing what the most effective builds are.
This imho is what leaves the Kheldians in such a mediocre state as we have today.
[/ QUOTE ]
I get you, I do. In a lot of ways I agree. The thing that gets to me is that you aren't the first person to say that Kheldians are mediocre, but I've not seen it. I mean, I do have fun with other ATs, but my WS is possibly the best MMO character I've ever had, "funwise."
I can see that it is mediocre from the point of 'nobody has made the ultimate build that every strives for' like other builds. But to me, most of the fun is the discovery. Granted others have discovered things time and time again, but throwing sets into powers for the sake of throwing them around has been a real journey for me.
But anyways, yeah, people have a hard time agreeing that other Kheldian builds (That are fairly different than theirs) are worthy. We won't admit that we're built "wrong" or our build isn't the best. I know for Warshades at least, it's in part that they own under most conditions. That ownage makes it a bit hard for us to agree that there's a better build out there.
And they do own. But when the general concensus of players who don't know much about Kheldians is they are gimp, it makes me wonder what sort of builds and styles they "have" played with to have such an outlook.
I do not believe if the majority of Khelds owned there would be such a unilateral opinion of us being a gimpy AT.
I think this fact alone requires we ask ourselves "why is it so?".
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
I have difficulty figuring out what power selections I want in those 40's.
I dinged 47 on a Warshade yesterday, and spent probably over 10 minutes trying to figure out what I wanted to get, as there was nothing I really cared for. Some human-only usable powers that only duplicate other stuff, no chance for fly in human form, some shields that have limited usefulness to me, and some epic pool powers that only seem usable in human form. I finally settled on the aid other in the Med pool.
I remember thinking on my PB that I wished I could swap a power selection for more slots, and that held true here again.
Anyone having similar troubles, or have suggestions for those of us that tri-form and prefer Nova/Dwarf in combat? I don't really want anything that won't carry over to the forms, and I dislike the idea of grabbing a power just to slot an IO set for a bonus.
P.S. Devs - I'd *love* for our "epic pool" to just be the ability to choose slots instead of powers!
My Deviant Art page link-link
CoH/V Fan Videos