Memphis_Bill

Though if you're still at DO level, it will. Check post-SOs. I *believe* I added a set to that.
3 years, you likely have a freespec. Not to mention we can now have a second build, if you don't want to burn that - just go to a trainer, pick "choose build," it'll re-level you from level 1 to wherever you are. If you don't "need" a second build (PVP vs PVE, solo vs group, petless vs standard) it's like another free respec.

Edit: Except you *do* have to buy enhancements for it separately.

<3 the AOE Immob. And a little extra protection never hurt.

Yet that's still where the game's balanced at. Imagine if doms had been balanced around "Well, a few people can triple-stack Domination, we need to balance around that." How heavily gutted would that be? Or even around double stacking it... or permadom on its own? Would you rather the Scrapper game (for another example) be based off BillZBubba's "Let me solo a mission set for 8 with groups of nothing but AVs," or "You can do this with SOs?" (Or common IOs, for that matter?)

It's one of the things that irks me with the forums generally, as well - yes, it's nice that with X build at 50 and all these IOs you can do such and such, but that doesn't give me a baseline, nor does it help at level 10, 20, 30 while you're trying to get up there.
I think you're reading too much into them. The whole second half could fit in one arc, and they could have expanded FAR more. It shows you how one might end up a fortunata? You get that in phipps, as well. Where's the impact you have, being a Bane but operating on your own? How have you escaped the "hive mind?" Oh, wait, two missions total that say "you're being jerked around." They're *not worth doing.* They're lazy writing that feel like the story was completely ignored until a week before they had to be pushed out.
They'd be a good story. They'd be a good story *arc.* You can combine all of them into one 5-mission story arc and free up space to write something more interesting.

Going genre-specific, they're the equivalent of taking a (standard sized) comic book, tearing out the pages, and selling one to two pages of THAT each month. They're disappointing, unfulfilling, and rather slipshod. Frankly, had time been put into them, they COULD have been an interesting story instead of the farce they are now. Heck, they could have gone into the impact you have depending on the branch and AT you choose - doing the early Kheld arc (where PBs and WS start on independent arcs, then join the overall Kheld war storyline) in reverse.

Where the other COV arcs are a decent steak dinner, the VEAT arcs are a grilled cheese sandwich with the bread replaced with cardboard.

Actually, this one looks like it needs a bit more of a personal touch. Some of the cut-and-paste will be repeated, though.

For the OP - I'll be mangling your post a little to group some things.

Last bit first, the group transport bit is reasonably new with vehicle posts. It does come up on occasion, though. It does add some utility. Specifying a *flying* car does actually deal with some of the issues when people bring up "cars" as vehicles - dealing with the other cars and such on the road, how they turn and the like.

Some of the things that need considering, though:

1. Powers. Are you now unable to attack/buff/defend? Do you have to get on/off the motorcycle? Don't forget, some powers *require* contact with the ground to work (Stalagmites, Hot Feet (activating,) Grounded for examples.)

2. Powers, part 2 - the flying car. You're now making *four* people unable to do anything - and having had experience with group fly on some of them, even if you say "well, just ignore it and let them work normally" you're still disabling many peoples powers due to flight.

3. Powers, part 3 - If you replace powers with "vehicle attacks/defenses" (for instance,) you're likely going the same way as a Kheldian as far as slots. You'll have slots for your vehicle (speed/end typically) and now a set of slots for every power. While not a problem for some builds, for others it'd be painful.

4. Car powers - Are *all* the passengers getting something to do to deal with ambushes? Or do they just trust you've slotted acc and dam and the like? I, for one, would *hate* feeling helpless - but if I can't fly, I'm plummeting if I try to do anything.

5. END - again, plummeting to doom, as above, depending on one person's slotting.

6. Customization. (Car, specifically.) Quite likely, you'd be stuck with one "model" replacing the characters for some time. Redoing a character replacement model (see MM pets) is a different kettle of fish than just recoloring powers. ("Just." heh.)

7. Riding. We can't *ride* anything in the game. Go ahead, try to jump on a car - or the blimp in atlas. You slide off because of how the game deals with models. How does the motorcycle deal with scaling? Does your character get replaced with a generic "rider - male/female/huge" that's part of the model? Personally, I'd find that rather unsatisfying.

There *are* issues to consider.




As an "inherent" with the power, perhaps, but would you *really* burn a power pick on this? I'd search for something else.
SS, as I recall, is already at a speed limit (or close to it) for the game. (Might be thinking of "with slotting," though.) If you want the *effect,* perhaps a straight-line, 150 yd teleport (no target, just 150 yd or til you hit a wall, longish recharge) would do it.

Slot for damage?

The OP mentioned "Arena," though - I don't know if they try zone PVP or not. With arena, a 'shade would (I'd imagine) be more at a disadvantage given the mire, pet, and other mechanics. Given that you have no guarantee the enemy will stick around - and it's best to assume they won't - your experience would be more like trying to get death-buffs from Croatoa ghosts. And forget about pets. Of course, some of the zone potential also depends on "Which zone."

This is generally why PBs seem preferred over WS - the buffs are completely self contained, the biggest threat being recharge debuffs.

The other issue when it comes to 'shades also affects both Khelds in Dwarf - Travel suppression completely nullifying teleport in PVP. Castle initially tried just lowering the range, and found it'd lower the range of *every* attack a character had - so for the time being we have Telestuck. For a PB, not as big a deal - they can fly. For a 'shade, you *must* invest in another travel power. (Or go with nova and hope you don't have enough -fly stacked on you to bring you down.)

There's quite a bit stacked against a 'shade in PVP. That said, Square One finally got into a routine with my MM when I fought him, finally managing to reliably (well, somewhat) teleport me out of my pets and kill me before they reached Bodyguard range. How that'd work now, post I13 (and post PVP TP defense IO, which I'd imagine any MM who dedicates themselves to PVP would strive for) I can't honestly say.

There's no *story* to be had.

There's a difference between, say, Robert Jordan's "Wheel of time" series (dragging on,) a good novel or trilogy of novels, and "See jane run."

The VEAT arcs turn from, potentially, a novel - a short one, at that - to "see jane run." Level 30? "Run, jane run." Level 35, another sentence. When I hit 30 and saw the 1-2 mission "arc" that did... well, nothing, my reaction was quite plainly "WTF." And my SG mates will attest to that. I was so *irritated* and disappointed I nearly deleted the character right there. (Not to mention the repetition of "You're a destined one!" "No, wait, you're not." "Just kidding, yes you are." "Nope.")

"Tedious exposition?" I don't see the Kheld arcs as tedious - and you know what's going ON with them when you're done. The VEAT "arcs" (if you can call sets of *one to two missions* an arc with a straight face) are very hollow and disappointing. Of course, ending with the last "Oh, by the way, here's a somewhat awkward speech to try to cram a metagame mechanic (power proliferation) into the game world." doesn't make it any better. If they'd stopped with Kalinda's speech, at least it would have gone out with some dignity.

Edit:

You learn more about being Banes and Forts (not Crabs, obviously) in one arc from Westin Phipps than you do in the *entire* 1-50 stretch of the VEAT arcs. And that, to me, is just *wrong.* Given the general quality of writing in most of the COV arcs (even if they tend to be short) and the expansion of the Kheld story versus what little you learn as a regular AT, yes, the VEAT arcs are a horrible letdown. I wrote up that Kheld backstory guide ... what is it, a few years ago now? and enjoyed it. If I wanted to do the same for a VEAT, well - "You want to be one of the destined ones. You're played for a sucker. You get pissy and decide to try to beat up recluse anyway. The end." I'm just not satisfied with that in the least.

With how much dumped in for IOs? I'll be honest, I'm really *not* impressed by "with multi billion INF builds I can do this" as a measure of an AT. (Or even, really, with "fully IO'd out and a ton of bonuses" builds.) Interesting as far as exercises, yes. Do it with straight SOs and I'll accept that's the built in potential of the AT.

Would that be all the single-mission, why did you bother "arcs?" Or the "Hey, let's have a metagame exposition and call it a misison" 'arc' at the end?

I'm not saying this just because we disagree. I really can't see how anyone can call the story "arcs" for VEATs worthy of an epic (story-based) AT, when the ones from 30-50 *combined* would make a total of one normal arc - even redside.

Of course, it did irritate me enough to write up a two part arc specifically for banes.

/takes nova in, clears out Perez's streets singlehandedly with nova form.

Honestly, I have yet to have any of the VEATs I've run feel "epic." Unless the world "pain" or "fail" follows. And every time the discussion comes up, it seems VEATs have one of two things mentioned: "Of course they're great, get a team of (x) of them together!" (so ... they're not fine solo?) or "They're great for the team buffs." I don't hear much of play, soloing, etc. mentioned - and to be honest, as I was leveling, I figured I could be doing the same thing with a Brute or Stalker with Leadership. *shrug*

Like I said, though - hoping the crab at least grabs me. Have to get it to the branching levels though, which itself still feels like slogging through to me. I wish the branching came earlier so it didn't feel like such a waste of 23 levels to me. I loved the idea of the mechanic when it came out in beta, but it's soured on me. Too late for a remake now, but I'd do it at 14 or so.

Blasters already get it. >.>

*raises hand.*

PBs are (a) more melee-oriented in human form, and (b) more of a "predictable" build - you always know you'll get X amount out of your self buffs and heals, and they'll be available as soon as they recharge. In exchange - you don't get the higher highs (or bigger risks) a Warshade brings along, with its reliance on enemies (alive or dead.)

Ugh. Just the opposite here. HEATs all the way. VEATs, I have to slog through. And to 14 and 6? That's barely learning anything about them.

Khelds, I've got two 50 PBs, 1 50 WS and love playing them, with several others that get a turn along other levels. Plus they actually have a *storyline* that goes along with them, one I enjoy going through each time.

VEATs - a waste of 23 levels (but at least the first few have something vaguely like a storyline, after that it's a complete waste of time,) then you respec and "blah." One at 50 (Widow) that only got there because I wanted to see the rest of the utterly disappointing storyline, and was glad to get to 50 to just say she's *done* and stop playing her, one bane that's boring to play and seems to have one heck of a glass jaw, and others that I just can't bring myself to get to 24 and branch out - though eventually I will, just to see the other branches (and my overall goal of one of each AT to 50.) I find them roughly as enjoyable as a root canal sans anesthetic... performed by Doc Buzzsaw. (Edit: Though I'll admit the Crab playstyle still looks interesting, Widow and Bane have just sucked all the fun and anticipation out of VEATs for me. That and the horribly put together storyline.)

HEAT > VEAT, for me.

You need to look around more. I see Masterminds with it (especially 'bots masterminds) rather frequently. I've seen it used to ferry others across zones.

The "tohit" penalty makes sense for me, thematically - you're not really in control of your own flying. I wouldn't argue with the penalty being lowered, mind you, but having it there does make sense to me.

That said, I'd *love* to have a "Decline" for it - preferrably in the options menu. I've had it interfere with various characters (assassin strikes get interrupted, powers "suddenly" don't work because my controllers or doms got lifted off the ground, elec brutes lose status protection as I recall as well) more often than I care to remember. THAT gives it a bad name to me.

You'd be surprised at what you can get for some prices.

Sums it up nicely.

(And badges for teaming = badgers teaming and leaving their systems on over night 'til they get the badge, then going back to soloing.)

*nods in agreement.* I'm surprised it's still around. Maybe they're watching for intercontinental rep wars or some such. Regardless, yes, it was disabled as soon as I noticed it. If I could get rid of mention of it in the user CP (even though mine seems to be quite positive,) I would as well.

(And speaking of anonymous, I notice in that small user CP list that nobody who leaves a negative tends to want to comment. I was roughly as surprised as I was when I found out the sun would rise this morning.)

This... is huge. Especially when mixed with things like work.

I'd also suggest paying attention to *when,* time-wise, classes are offered. One of the things that bit me in my first attempt was an evil multi-hour gap between my second-last and last class (which happened to be calculus or pre-calc - it's been ... er, well, longer than you've been alive. >.<) It also happened to coincide with rush hour, and I lived well off campus - it made it easy to miss. And then start putting off.

It certainly didn't help things. And TBH I wasn't *ready* for college, attitude-wise, right then - if I'd gone with a plan similar to yours, I think I'd have been much better prepared.

In any case, A_C, good luck.

/This.

It's one thing to decline speed boost or a shield (though, shield-wise, I think it's silly to do so in most cases.) But a single target rez, AB, Fort? Yeah, I'd rather see those give a variation of "invalid target."

I dont' know what they'd be able to do with something like Group Fly, though I know my Earth controllers and doms and every Stalker I have would have it set to auto-decline.

/this. It was an example of something that, if it ever happened, would potentially get people to ask for their money back for the transfers. It was not a promise or a "we'd like to do this/are planning on this." But in yet another example of people reading what they want to, it sparked a flurry of "ZOMG they're going to go serverless!" (and still does.)

Frankly, I'd hate to see it happen.

Edit: Except for the PVP zones, perhaps, so all ten PVPers left in the game can play with each other more easily.