Memphis_Bill

*nitpick* It's not necessarily "Hover and Melee," it's "Hover and specific powers." While many are PBAOE, there are a few ranged (Stalagmites come to mind) that are also affected.

... touching on this to reinforce the last reply, and to go with another powerset pairing:

How does AA help FF?
Buffing: I know from experience that bubbling everyone can take quite a bit of END. (Earth/FF to 50, as well. Plus a FF MM that's in the mid-20s, so I've always got a "team" to buff there. ) While you're buffing, you don't need AA running. Looking at the other powers:
PFF - AA won't affect anything else anyway.
Force bolt - knocks back.
Detention field - AA won't affect whatever's in there.
Repulsion field - again, nothing in AA.
Repulsion Bomb - Ranged, knockdown. I suppose you could use it at your feet, but... eh.
Force bubble - FAR larger radius than AA.

How effective is taking AA on this character? I'd have to say "Not very." Things either aren't going to stay in range or aren't going to be affected unless you ignore much of your secondary. And yes, Dispersion bubble provides some hold, stun, and immob protection - but sleeps (also very prevelant) will gut that. It's not overall "mez protection," it just covers three categories. (Health will reduce sleep *duration,* but by then you've already been detoggled.)

It's another powerset combination that, really, is perfectly effective *at range,* and AA would be (IMO) completely optional with - either that, or ignore much of your secondary, which (again IMO) is just as ineffective, if not moreso.

Not, IMHO, a great comparison - heck, we dont' even have to go outside Ice for a similar statement ("What if I take Ice Slick but always place it where no enemies are standing?") The difference, of course, is that both are placed, ranged powers which Arctic Air is not. I can stay at range and have every single spot in a large radius available to place those powers in. AA, by comparison, (a) is constantly draining END, and (b) requires me to place me somewhere - I can't place AA around a corner, or in a doorway waiting to "collect" sniped aggroed mobs chasing someone, grouping them nicely for AOEs.
Actually, the "every-fight control powers" also include the holds (which I'm busy stacking on a boss) and immobilizes, as well. Yes, including the AOE immobilize - it only requires a functioning brain to not put the immob on ice slick (barring the occasional accident.) Not exactly sure why you're not considering those. As a controller - I'm not going for damage, I'm going for *control.*

Again... depending on usefulness to the build. Plus, Shiver has an advantage in not being an always-on END drain. Shiver also slows recharge time more (81% vs 60-some %) at a longer range (60ft) without needing to always be on, and if you must have damage with it, there are slow set procs to throw in.

You're making an assumption that the team's damage (and my heal/buffing) is why I'm running out of END. Dont' forget, I'm not an Emp defender, I'm an Ice/Emp Controller. If I'm just spamming heals, I'm a "healor" and should be replaced with something useful - like a potted plant or a cheeseburger. Control *itself,* barring dealing with purple triangles making life interesting, is going to make healing less of a task - which means, of course, that I *can* stand back and still be effective. (And not need AA running, draining my END for doing nothing.)

That's not the same argument. "Kinetics" is not a single power, for starters. Here -

Your statement:
This despite the majority of powers (looking SOLELY at the primary, here) being ranged.

Kinetics, while the powers *themselves* are ranged, the *effect* of those (non-direct buff) powers (for the most part) are centered around the enemy, not the caster (or in the case of fulcrum shift, split.) A kinetics' heal and END recovery powers affect those around their target. By default, they'll be in melee if they need to heal or buff *themselves* (plus to get full effect of fulcrum shift.) Of course, this is why I said earlier:
The same is not true of Empathy. Yes, the RAs are caster-centered. Heal Other, Absorb Pain, Fort, Clarity, and AB are all directly applied, *at range,* to your target. Player-centered? ABs and Healing Aura.

Again - *pointing at the last quote of mine* - the usefulness of AA is directly related to the character *as a whole* and how both powersets (and selections) influence it.

Kinetics - darn right I'm taking it, I'll be in melee, and want the mititgation.
Ice/Psy dom - again, I'd be a fool to skip it, I'll be hopping in for PSW, Drain Psyche and the like.
Emp - Eh, not so much.

(Edit: Or as lacrimosa just said: Sums it up decently. If the secondary really requires you to be close to the enemy - consider putting more importance on grabbing AA. If it doesn't, put AA in as "far more optional.")

The one power, AA, and whether I have it or not is not (to get back to the original point) the sole, or even major consideration on if my character is effective. How I, as a player, leverage my primary and secondary and work with the team, is.

In other words, when it comes to inviting (or reinviting) a character to a team, player notes > arctic air.

Masterminds do. And yes, I do know of people using Team TP, as well - four Elec/Elec blasters coming in, draining everything, shocking everything and moving on, for instance.

Again. No replacing. Add, yes, replace, no.

I believe the only thing connected to the patrons (not having seen that mention) is the badge, now. You can, after all, respec from one patron pool to another (or none at all) as of - well, a few issues ago.

And really, losing access to the powers wouldn't make sense. I mean, if I learned (say) how to bleed a brake system from my neighbor, and a year later I get into a bad argument and never speak to that neighbor again, or they move and I don't know how to get ahold of them any more - I don't forget how to bleed a brake system.

I thought that, too - but at the same time, thought "What would be fair? Give Heroes "mentors" (patrons) that can't be changed, give villains APPs that can." That way both sides have RP-can't-be-changed options and generic-power-can-be options.
What color fire? Depending on (for instance) what's burning, it can be a wide range of colors... or even no color at all.

/strongly disagree, as mentioned previously. A power that doesn't mesh with the rest of mine and how I'm playing is pointless to me. For the aforementioned Ice/Emp (who's at range,) Shiver's probably more useful. (Edit: Or hasten, see later note.)
Even if the one without is doing effective control anyway? As well as fully utilizing their support secondary, picking up another useful power (again, I find it hard to skip any power in /Rad Emission - they're all good) instead?

If I am running an Ice 'troller, my ST (and AOE) immobs.... aren't going on the ice patch. That's true with or without Arctic Air. The ST hold will be, if needed, yes. The immobs are snagging runners (or at least slowing them and dropping recharge.)

Let me give you the flip side. Say I respec my (staying-at-range) Ice/Emp. I run Arctic Air the entire time as we go through, say, a six mission arc. Every once in a while, a runner goes through my AA, but in the meantime, I'm at range, healing, buffing, laying out Ice Slick, holding and immobilizing while hanging back out of range.

How much more effective is AA making me?

I'd argue, quite honestly, that it's making me LESS effective, as it's eating up endurance I could be using for something else while I'm sitting back there. In fact, it's a constant drain that could, very well, PREVENT me from getting off a heal, buff, hold, etc. when it's needed. Hasten, for that character, is more important than Arctic Air - it lets me stack holds quicker, bring my buffs back quicker, etc. (Which, come to think of it, might be another reason I grabbed it on my dom. With domination, I don't have to worry as much about stacking the holds as they're already 'improved.')

Just saying "An ice 'troller lacking AA is less effective" is - well, really a broad, and very often incorrect, statement, and a very poor way (unlike your next examples) of determining the "worth" of a teammate.

A tanker that doesn't take their mez protection will be many, MANY orders of magnitude more hampered in doing their job than an ice 'troller without AA. Again - got my Ice/Emp to 50, without AA. Never needed it. And yet I was most certainly effective throughout.

Base your judgments of the player on how they play, not "do they have X power." Because in this case, at least - it's a poor measuring stick.

... so now it's unpopular with 5 more people?
As the devs learned, just outright *replacing* powers is VERY unpopular. Yes, this includes TP Foe - which has its uses in PvE (aka, the majority of the game) as well. Plus is part of the Warshade's powersets, as well.)

(Yes, I use it.)
While it would potentially be interesting, there are some issues:

• The hover on Teleport is already considered - well, irritating at times. Since you can't decide "I want to not hover now" (such as when you TP to a train) and you're often stuck in place. Lengthening that hover would likely not be popular (I wouldn't argue with seeing that FIXED, though.)
• Related to that, there are powers that require you to be on the ground. If you're "bamf"ing around with a hover afterard - you're not going to get to use those powers. Some pet powers require you to be on the ground. PBAOEs often require it. Foot stomp, fault, stalagmites, etc. all require you to be on the ground - this would certainly not assist them in combat (thus lowering the pool of people who would take this.)
• Midair combat teleport - right now, to teleport, you must place the reticle somewhere. Midair will work, of course, but as you're moving - so is the enemy, most times. It might work - but I think it'd be more of a frustrating chase than anything. (Edit: Given melee ranges now, this might not be AS big of a deal - but I still see it being somewhat problematic.)
• Not going to go into the numbers. Cast time for this makes sense, the others might need tweaking (I'd see the end cost going up a bit.)
• What do you do about Warshades?

Just some thoughts.

No. The game's not new and needing a rapid infusion of quick cash to get off the ground.

Some, yes.

Think "Alternate timeline" or "What if."

For instance, I *do* have Memphis Bill on - well, most servers. Why?
- One is there because it's the original, and no, I'm not deleting him. He's 50, I've enjoyed playing him - and still do.
- Two are there because... well, it IS me. "Name recognition," I suppose, but there on two different servers because I was joining groups with my "signature name," if you will.
- One is there because Dark armor (which fit the character far better) was only available with superstrength to Brutes, so I made (and still play) a "what-if" character. I have a few other "What-ifs," as well, but that has a specific reason.
- One was made when Dark armor became available to tanks.

I have another character (my first 50) on three different servers - one's the original, one's because I got with some friends who wanted to make a theme team the character fit, and one's another server to re-run that character (since the original got to 50 before the GDN, ED, and IOs and I wanted to see how going 1-50 would play out again with that powerset, but with all these other things in play.) So I used the same name.

Neither of these names are ones I think anyone is going to be stomping their feet over not getting.

Wait, wait, wait.

Vanguard pieces are ONLY obtainable via vanguard merits, and ONLY after hitting at least level 35. You cannot get them earlier. You're not guaranteed of getting them *at all,* frankly, unless you catch raids or do a lot of rikti missions (with a very little bit of help from the day job.)

Vet rewards - you ARE guaranteed to get them, on every character. You don't have to do anything special - just keep your game active. You can have a lvl 1 that does nothing but RP in Pocket D, and as the time comes up - you get the piece. You don't even have to *leave* Pocket D. And you get the pieces from *character creation.*

Seems the vanguard pieces are more restrictive - or, "exclusive," if you will.

Want more exclusive yet? Again - the Hero-con giveaways. You have to be able to reach a specific locale in the US at a specific time for one event. And you can't (so far) get the same one if you miss the event - it's a different one each year. That is *exclusive.* (Top it off with the fact that many of those NPC pieces are unavailable to players to begin with.) Only a very limited number of people will get those. EVERYONE is guaranteed to get the vet pieces, just by staying active in the game.

Of course, with dual builds, there's an easy answer to that, as well - they have a solo/concept/team/etc build. It doesn't hold *quite* as true for a controller or dom, perhaps, as for a Defender or Corruptor, but for a solo build I'll skip or put off powers I'd otherwise grab immediately. (FF, Sonic, Cold and Thermal are probably the most obvious for this. No shields = solo build.) You can then put those power choices into, say, leadership for example.

Some combos don't give that sort of flexibility, of cousre (I can't see skipping much of anything in Radiation Emission, f'rinstance - the rez and fallout for a solo build would be about it.) Others can give a lot of leeway.

/this. And no, sometimes -1 isn't enough.

Personally I wouldn't put dull pain in this at all any more than "I can decide if I want to use sprint or not." It's just not the same - it's purely you, you can only use it on one person, ever. Now, if you wanted to say Frostwork - at least it's a buff for someone else.

Now, as far as "the perfect time to have a shield on is all the time," I'd say "not quite." Part of why you mention liking Forge is prioritization, who needs the extra damage. I'd assume you try to keep it on specific people. Why can't you do that with FF (or sonic?) You don't (I'd assume) mind running Maneuvers on your VEAT - well, FF and Sonic do have an "in it all the time" bubble, that's perfectly fine for those hanging back. It's fewer (to use part of your gist) timers to chase, it lessens what some see as the 'burden' of bubbling.

Now, obviously this doesn't affect cold or thermal. Yet even there you have some prioritization - both of team and powers - you can do. It's longer term (*usually* the length of a mission,) but you can do it. Fire shield, with its smash/lethal resist, is generally a good one to have on regardless, but Plasma (fire/energy/negative?) See if you really need it for the mission. If not, you've just cut down what you "need" to do. (Cold, I'll say, doesn't have QUITE that much of a luxury, as Glacial = ranged/AOE defense, versus thermal's resists. Though you can still decide how much it's needed versus the other things your powers are doing, and for mob capabilities.)

It's also one of the things (since we're talking chasing timers) that bugs me with PBAOE buffs, really, such as the RAs or AM. I *don't* tell people to gather - I find it disruptive, and usually the team's close enough I can hit everyone. But if I *miss* someone... I'm watching the timer. I can't spot-Accelerate Metabolism them - they're SOL until that timer says I can do it again. Single target, I can wait, or catch someone after (or make sure they're getting the buff as they run in) - plus the timers on the powers are typically short.

So... do so?

If I'm in combat on a buffer, the shields are dropping, melee's doing its thing and range/control isn't getting a lot of attention, I only worry about hitting melee with shields, and double checking on any mez protection buffs. Top them off later. Worry about "even" buffs when everyone has a chunk of downtime.

I have a reasonable stable of buffers (earth/ff, sonic/sonic, ill/sonic, several thermals, etc.) and I've just never seen buffing as a chore. I might miss out on attacking one group... oh well. (Though I usually have some AOE to drop on them anyway.) Maybe it's from having binds - select, left arrow for whatever the first shield is, right arrow for the other, so it's a very swift process.

I know it doesn't answer some of your other comments. That one just stood out for me.

Numbers. Go ahead, prove people are "flocking to (other) games" for this very reason. You said it, now prove it.

Have you looked at the "Baron" coat? Personally, I prefer it to the trenchcoat.
Cherub, bat, burned, bone, dragon, tech... six vs two, and really, three or four of those tend to be far superior to the demon wings, IMHO. And dont' forget Valkyrie.

Hero-con attendees have exclusive, permanent access to costume changes - model changes, actually. I *cannot* get that, no matter what happens, at this point. Those powers provide 'costumes' (npc models, really) that are unavailable to anybody, in any way, shape, or form in the costume editor.

EVERYBODY has access to vet rewards simply by meeting the requirements of having an account active X months. Doesn't sound particularly "exclusive" by comparison, does it.

And by getting access to unlockable pieces, we'll have someone else giving the EXACT SAME argument as you - "They get it by being vets right away, I don't, it's not fair." (Even though veteran rewards, by definition, aren't awarded "right away" but after a period of time with an active account.)

... except they *are* available to everyone else, as they meet the requirements for the rewards.

I know (to make something up) that if I stay with X insurance company for a year, I get some percent discount.

I know if I stay with my employer for however long, I'll get days off. Eventually little do-dads and trinkets, as well.

And I know if I keep my account paid for three months, I get access to a trenchcoat. And more rewards every three months thereafter that my account is active. Just like everyone else.

Well, to be honest, they DID make a change to fire aura, one that was rather important given healing flames - they added slow/recharge protection to Temperature Protection. So we can't say it's been *completely* ignored.

But burn still needs to be looked at.

Yeah, I hear the Cosmos is great to work in. The other one, though, has two things going for it - no door (pulled the door off my Sonata II, as well, after a while,) and the slide-out MB tray.

Of course, I've liked the look and reputation of the cosmos pretty much since it came out.