A lot of thought in that post.
There are people who swear that squishies shouldn't be in melee. Lots of them in fact, including those that feel high and mighty about their personal opinion.
(Think about it for a second though: If squishies were never meant to be in melee, why would so many melee oriented powers be in their sets? Kind of a rhetorical question....)
As you and I both know, there is a big difference between being in melee and being in melee for a reason! Arctic Air is usually a very good reason. Of course, those that universally think that squishies should never be in melee see it as a melee power....something they weren't "meant" to take, and therefore don't. Blasters do the same thing with their secondaries, despite the fact there are many melee powers in their secondary sets.
There are those, though, that think there are ranged ATs and melee ATs and never shall the two meet. Those players often can't see past that gross generalization, and often therefore miss some great opportunities.
The other case is the one you highlighted: "Support" toons. Its not just Defenders who suffer from this ailment.
Additionally, Arctic Air suffers from what I like to call "Flash sucks" syndrome. For Illusion controllers, Flash comes too early in the build. Flash comes at level 6 where, without a fully slotted SO build and without additional control options, it is a pretty useless power. People who take it early almost always conclude that . . . "Flash sucks!" But later on, when it is fully slotted with the right kind of enhancements, Flash is a decent power.
Arctic Air has the same problem. If you take it when you can first get it, and throw a few TO enhancements in it, it seems pretty lame. It gulps down your endurance before you have Stamina, and the confusion lasts for a very short time. Later on, when fully slotted with EndRdx and Confuse, and with the right strategies, then AA is pretty awesome. On the other hand, Shiver is pretty nice right when you first get it. It is easy to see how people might think that Shiver is better than AA before a mature build.
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That's a great explanation. It's funny, because Flash was my first encounter with an AoE hold. I concluded it sucked and dropped it. Independently, I ended up with Glacier on an Ice troller who passed the Illusion guy up in level. I got Glacier and thought "this isn't so bad." And it got better as I went up in level. It wasnt until much later that I realized it was the same power with different graphics.| Additionally, Arctic Air suffers from what I like to call "Flash sucks" syndrome. For Illusion controllers, Flash comes too early in the build. Flash comes at level 6 where, without a fully slotted SO build and without additional control options, it is a pretty useless power. People who take it early almost always conclude that . . . "Flash sucks!" But later on, when it is fully slotted with the right kind of enhancements, Flash is a decent power. |
I have to say in the case of AA some of the reason people may be concluding that it sucks is coming from the advice they are getting on how to slot it at low levels. IMO, AA is the most important power to six slot early in your career. Starting out it should be slotted almost entirely with endurance reduction trainings (the equivalent of "let me use this power more often" for a toggle). As you go up in level, the end redux should be gradually changed over to Confusion duration.
It might also require a change of mentality for low level characters. I think a lot of people look at toggles and assume it should be on ALL the time. The mental adjustment low level users of AA have to make, IMO, is to think of the toggle as just a placeable long duration AoE that you can move around the battlefield as necessary. Thought of that way, the considerable power of AA should be more apparant, as should the idea that it should sometimes be turned off between fights, when it provides no benefit.
BTW does anyone have any information on how effective AA is at detecting hiders in PvP? It's one of the few powers with that function, and it has saved my skin in difficult AE missions, but I've never used it in PvP.
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The same thing happens with Explosive Blast, only in reverse. Despite the fact it is a clone of several other blaster powers, and has the same damage as even more blaster powers, the fact is it is a tier 8 power......and therefore it "sucks" because it doesn't do more damage than it does.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
Additionally, Arctic Air suffers from what I like to call "Flash sucks" syndrome.
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It is just one of those things everyone has to learn is that tier isn't always relevant. Lots of similar powers have vastly different tiers assigned to them.
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I've got multiple Ice controllers (and dominators.)|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I think I've asked this question before so hopefully you will forgive me.
I keep running into Ice Controllers on PUGs who do not have Arctic Air. The actual builds have varied, ranging from what I would call absolutely terrible (lvl 25 Ice/Empathy with only Block of Ice and Ice Slick from the primary) to just varied. The lack of Arctic Air makes me wonder how much they are contributing to the team, tho. |
The highest ice controller is a 50 Ice/Emp. Everything (except Glacier) that I use offensively is ranged. Most of my support is ranged (I combat-buff - the groups tend to pause a moment to see what incoming enemies are, and get their RAs then.)
AA does that character exactly zero good, so I never took it. They don't get into melee with me, and if they do - they're held, slowed, about to trip up on an ice patch, and/or dealing with Jack.
My 50 Ice/Psy Dom, on the other hand, is almost *always* in melee, and so the cost of Arctic Air makes far more sense. (Setting up a second build for her with stamina. >.> ) My Ice/Kin controller will likely take it. Ice/Storm, probably not - especially with feeling how END-use-heavy my Fire/Storm is, there won't be much in range to make it worth the cost.
Basically, if I expect to be in melee more often than not, I'll take it. If not, I have better things to use - AA's not, to me, a "must have" power for any ice controller (though it's not flash freeze, at the level of "yay, a globally skippable power" either.) Sometimes it's an either/or with Shiver, as well (more use on my "stay in melee" folks.) The former Coercive bug (pets getting confused by the proc) didn't help, either - glad that's gone.
Edit: I do agree that it comes too early, though.
A lot of people think that Ice Slick is the set-defining power of Ice Control. Up until 50, I would perhaps agree with them: Ice Slick is, after all, the power that made me decide to make an Ice Controller. Since I've hit 50, however, I find myself having specced out of Ice Slick in favor of the ridiculous damage that is Arctic Air. Simply put, I don't want my enemies knocked down when I have a sea of purple dots floating above their heads. I don't even have Ice Slick in my build, anymore. I never use it. All that said, I agree with what has been said so far: Arctic Air is a late bloomer, and poorly placed in the power tree.
Arctic Air, out of the box, is mediocre at best. It is a terrible endurance hog, and, up until recently, had no really discernible effect due to the fact that the confuse animation was not displaying properly. I believe that this animation problem has contributed greatly to AA's lack of respect, as nobody could really tell that it was doing anything. Indeed, even as a Kin, I spent my entire 1-49 career spamming Shiver instead of AA. Even now, when it is easily distinguishable, the history of the power keeps people from seeing the sheer amount of awesome that the power emits.
AA begins to shine in SO levels, when you can slot it with three confuse durations. This allows for the confusion to at least absorb one attack. Coupled with the slow, most minions and LTs effected by the confuse won't be doing any damage before they are annihilated by the damage coming in. With Arctic Air and Ice Slick, melee range becomes A-OK for squishies and a cakewalk for your more durable ATs. Still, Shiver keeps Ice Controllers safer, as it keeps them at range. I can see the argument for Shiver vs. Arctic Air until 50.
Here's the kicker, though. Arctic Air gets gets better, while Shiver stays the same. When you hit level 50, Arctic Air gets so much better that it blows Shiver out of the water. A well-slotted AA will become the set-defining power of an Ice Controller's post-50-ding career. The key, like the key to making most powers completely overpowered, is invention sets.
The first and less important aspect of Arctic Air is the fact that it can accept three damage procs, those being Cacophany: Change for xxx Damage, Malaise's Illusions: Chance for Psionic Damage, and some slow set (I think it's Tempered Readiness). Three damage procs plus the confusion already prevalent in the set creates a significant amount of damage from the "least damaging" Controller primary.
AA really shines, though, when you add the Contagious Confusion proc. It costs a mere 15 million, which should be affordable to anyone that has been using IOs since level 35. And it changes the power in a fairly ridiculous fashion. I swear, it is like having Mass Confusion in toggle form. There is a sea of purple dots, which, depending on the enemies that you're facing, add up to more damage that Hot Feet does for the Fire/Kin. Walking into an 8-man minion/LT Council spawn, I can usually see minions start going down after about 5-7 seconds just from AA alone - I am not pressing buttons at all (Okay, one non-Fulcrum'd Frostbite at the beginning of the fight for the -knockback). This, in addition to your proc madness.
Based off of this idea, I've been fooling around with an Ice/Kin farmer build. I cheaply soft-capped my S/L (about 30-50 million if you make your own IOs), gave myself a luxury Zephyr Knockback resistance, and opened up a high-AoE farm map (Council Empire, with tons of rocket-AoE minions and LTs). Utilizing Arctic Air, generous applications of Frostbite (for the -knockback, as rockets tend to scatter mobs), and Fissure, I can farm a mission almost as fast as as a Fire/Kin. If I ignore fringe leftover mobs (usually fringe LTs, as Jack can take down fringe minions in two hits) and just go from group-to-group, I can farm at an absolutely ridiculous speed. All at a greater level of safety than a Fire/Kin, as enemies rarely ever throw an attack my way.
The largest problem with Arctic Air is the terrorize aspect, which causes mobs to flee. It makes grouping a pain, and sometimes I need to turn off Arctic Air to get the a scattered mob to gather on me. But AA doesn't have a significant activation time, so it's not a significant hassle. And Hot Feet has this same problem, IIRC.
I'm working on a new build for this farmer that's going to push me in the 300-500 million range. The idea is to cap my AoE/range defense so I don't need Stone Armor. Then I can move over to the Fire Tree and pick up Fireball, which doesn't stun enemies and thus doesn't remove the added AoE damage that confused rocketeers provide. I also get Rise of the Phoenix, which I will never use but is one of my favorite powers based on sheer Look I'm Awesome factor.
I don't think it will be Fire/Kin or IO-Warshade fast, but it will at least approach those levels.
I'll be posting more about this as my experiment continues, but right now I'm incredibly pleased with how well this is working. My attack chain is Frostbite --> Fulcrum Shift --> Siphon Speed --> Transference --> Fissure --> Frostbite --> Fissure. By allowing a little bit of time before Fissure, I maximize the amount of damage that AA does. Many mobs fall to the first Fissure, and even more are killed by the second Frostbite.
By the way, here's my AA-slotting of Awesome. Coercive Persuasion: Con/End, Coercive Persuation: Con, 3 Damage Procs, Coercive Persuation: Contagious Confusion. It costs about 20-30 million, as CPs are cheap aside from Contagious Confusion.
TL;DR version:
1) Slot AA with 3 damage procs and a Contagious Confusion.
2) Walk into a high-AoE mob (Council, Family would likely be good).
3) ????
4) PROFIT.
PS: To the poster asking about AA detecting Stalkers in PvP: You must damage a Stalker in PvP in order to break their hide. If you slot your AA with damage procs, you have an okay chance. Still, never stand still in PvP unless you're around like seven Force Field/Sonic buddies.
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This makes me curious. I run an Ice/Thermal Controller, which I think is pretty comparable to Ice/Empathy, and I can't imagine how you can say AA would do you "zero good." The radius on AA is the same as your PBAoE heal. Are you also not using that power?| AA does that character exactly zero good, so I never took it. They don't get into melee with me, and if they do - they're held, slowed, about to trip up on an ice patch, and/or dealing with Jack. |
Ice Slick is a good power, but it is frequently cancelled by other Controllers or or outright resisted. I haven't found it reliable enough to reduce total incoming damage. It is very effective when it works, though.
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My first Ice Controller was one of my first heroes, so in addition to all of the aforementioned, I was still learning about aggro, the various sorts of enhancements and the abilities of the various enemy groups I was facing in PUGs.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
Additionally, Arctic Air suffers from what I like to call "Flash sucks" syndrome...
If you take it when you can first get it, and throw a few TO enhancements in it, it seems pretty lame. It gulps down your endurance before you have Stamina, and the confusion lasts for a very short time. |
My conclusion was that AA was leaving me without endurance but attracting a lot of aggro to me. Given what I knew at the time, this was not an unreasonable conclusion. My secondary was FF, and even then, I was finding that going into melee range was extremely dangerous, given that my experiments with that coincided with facing A) the Warriors and B) Nemesis. And not only is Nemesis pretty tough close up, 2 or 3 groups can aggro and snipe you with multiple shots, and it is tough to tell where the shots are coming from. I was getting buried in the incoming barrage next to the tank. So I avoided AA for most of my trip to 50 and was a ranged player, although I respecced into AA in my later 40s and it was great.
My Ice/Storm Controller, however, was AA all the way. IO sets made this an even better power, along with the Festive Procs. By this time, I had a few tricks up my sleeve for each group I encountered, though Nemesis was still a challenge.
I had not heard that AA will now cause purple dots. That will be very useful.
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
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Honestly? Not that much past, perhaps, the mid teens. Control, after all, does reduce the need for healing in general. |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
This makes me curious. I run an Ice/Thermal Controller, which I think is pretty comparable to Ice/Empathy, and I can't imagine how you can say AA would do you "zero good." The radius on AA is the same as your PBAoE heal. Are you also not using that power?
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If anything, it's treated as a self heal probably 60% of the time I use it. Melee is off doing its thing, while I'm supporting them, keeping threats held or contained and using the ST heal, if needed. Squishies, back with me, benefit from the AOE - they're generally not getting hit as much. If I'm in melee, it's for a matter of seconds - right on the heels of the melee folks to fire off Glacier, or as a quick hop in for a spot AOE heal.
There's generally no reason for me to be in melee most of the time on that character.
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Thanks for explaining. My experience has been a bit different. Even running AA, I find myself hitting the PBAoE heal 2 or 3 times per fight. | Honestly? Not that much past, perhaps, the mid teens. Control, after all, does reduce the need for healing in general. If anything, it's treated as a self heal probably 60% of the time I use it. |
The way I usually run things in a team is to let the tank jump in, then open with Ice Slick, Shiver and Melt Armor (if it is up), then run to a spot where I can surround mobs in AA but keep them about 10 feet away. Anything that tries to get closer gets a Block of Ice. Once things are in AA's radius the rate of fire drops drastically. By then I am usually checking to see which allies need their buffs refreshed, which I can do in relative security because AA keeps shenanigans to a minimum. I also fire Warmth every so often to keep everyone's HP bars full (I do this even if I can't see any damage in the team window, because if no one else pets are practically guaranteed to be taking damage).
For solo work, ideally I drop Ice Slick from behind a wall, then run in with Melt Armor and Shiver, before finally jumping in with AA. Enemies are then invited to a meet-and-greet with a fire shielded, Forged Jack Frost. What I have found is that anything that stays in AAs radius is easily dealt with from this point forward.
Where I mainly run into problems is when mobs are too scattered to surround, and some of them are able to shoot at me. Their rate of fire outside of AA is around double what it would normally be, because the Confusion in AA has about a 50% chance to cause them to blow their attacks on each other.
This, to me, is the major draw of AA. By itself, flooring the recharge on an enemy increases the rate of fire on a 5 second recharge power to a max of 20 seconds. But with AA's Confusion, this changes to around a 50% chance for 40 seconds, 25% chance for 60 seconds, 12.5% chance for 90 seconds. Combined with Ice Slick to keep enemies from shooting me at the start of the fight, it is a safe way to get enemies to discharge their first shot so that -Recharge goes a lot further.
All of this said, there is one kind of enemy that gives me major headaches solo: anything with a mezz. It is critical that I hit mezzers quickly, because if they get me first and the toggle drops, this is pretty much instant death. It's these moments when I realize just how effective AA is. One moment I am easily standing toe to toe with 10+ enemies, the next I am tasting the floor thanks to a 1 second sleep. Other Controllers have issues with mezzers too, but its always alarming how fast I go down the instant AA drops. On the other hand, it illustrates to me how ridiculously amazing this power is.
Pulled out my Ice/Storm yesterday for an ITF. I recently added three purple Coercive Persuasion IOs, including the Contagious Confusion proc, and I wanted to test it out.
LOVE IT! I found that the confusion hits far more often and lasts longer, including on foes who wander out of the AA zone. I currently have my AA slotted with Malaise EndRdx/Confuse and Chance for Psi proc, Coercive Persuasion Confuse, EndRdx/Confuse and the proc, common EndRdx. That puts me at 96% confuse and 95% EndRdx. I think it hits more often than Choking Cloud fully slotted up, even with the Lockdown proc. Maybe it is because I can now see the purple dots from confusion, but I was really, really impressed with the power of Arctic Air with this slotting. I would love to get a little slow in there, but no room.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
The contagious proc, imo, is quite overpowered like that.
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Yeah, it's nice now that it's *fixed.* It was not fun when it was affecting player pets - especially when I was teamed with a friend's Plant dom. Jack, Audrey and the vines had fun attacking us. >.<|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
Pulled out my Ice/Storm yesterday for an ITF. I recently added three purple Coercive Persuasion IOs, including the Contagious Confusion proc, and I wanted to test it out.
LOVE IT! |
So *very* glad it's fixed!
I agree that the purple dots are making AA much more obviously powerful. I find it very helpful in helping me identify which enemies need mezzing.
Issue 16 dramatically increased AA's power in 3 ways:
- You can now see the purple dots
- Contagious Confusion no longer hits your pet
- If you want you can now pick up World of Confusion from the Mind APP for ridiculous levels of mezz stacking. This power pretty much sucks for most other Controllers, but if anyone is ok with being 8ft away from enemies, it's an Ice troller.
As if you need more convincing that this power is awesome, try watching Combat window some time to see what its doing to enemies. Jump into a spawn of around 5 enemies and watch as the mezzes fly up the window. Now picture what AA would seem like if all those Afraid effects had an animation too.
I'm pretty sure the devs have no way of limiting the Contagious Confusion proc to only fire off of the Confusion aspect of Arctic Air... and since Arctic Air is auto-hit, that means that the Contagious Confusion proc is going off on 30% of the spawn for ten seconds every twenty seconds, according to Red Tomax. The thing is that it has a radius of 20 feet and a max target cap of 5... which essentially means that, in a spawn of 14, Contagious Confusion will proc on almost the entire group about 4-5 times. With the way that target caps work, if Contagious Confusion misses one target, it will move on to another, until it runs out of targets within its radius or hits its five target cap. Basically, the first ten seconds of a fight out to see almost everyone confused.
The actual confusion proc from Arctic Air is also limited at 30%, but it's not actually as important as Contagious Confusion, which not only procs an AoE but also actually lasts longer than the confuse from Arctic Air (even if you've maxed out confusion duration slotting, actually...).
Wow. Looking at the actual power stats on Red Tomax makes me think that the Arctic Air + Contagious Confusion combo is actually more overpowered than I'd thought. Yet, Contagious Confusion itself is actually pretty well balanced outside of AA. In a single target confuse like Deceive, Contagious Confusion is actually pretty balanced. In an AoE power like Mass Confusion or Seeds of Confusion, it really only succeeds in catching the misses or nailing bosses. Arctic Air, though... I mean, it is totally overpowered, but I don't know how they fix it without destroying its usefulness in the other situations.
Sorry for getting off an a rant about Contagious Confusion in an AA thread, but I think it's relevant. Contagious Confusion completely changes the name of the game for an Ice Controller. The first ten seconds of every battle (minus resistances), everything is going to be confused. That's substantial.
I actually don't think AA is overpowered with the CC proc. I don't know how the math works, but my level 50 Ice troller has had the proc for months and it's definitely not the case that whole spawns gets hit with the contagion.
The reason I think this is that prior to i16, you could see which enemies were hit with the proc because they would get the purple bubbles, and those confused by Arctic Air itself would not. With a group of around 10 enemies inside AAs radius, it was rare to see more than 3 or 4 enemies with purple dots, and even that didn't happen altogether often. It was especially noticeable back then, too, because when the proc went off it could hit your pet. Jack didnt stay perma-confused (that would have sucked!) Instead he would get hit about once every 10 minutes and give me the scare of a lifetime.
Is it possible that the proc is tied not to the AA radius but to the confusion element? AA's slow and -recharge are auto-hit, but the confusion and afraid components are not. I always used to be under the impression that the proc could only fire if something got tagged by a confusion effect, but I could be mistaken.
In any case, as great as the proc is in Arctic Air, I don't think there's a power in the game (well, except Fulcrum Shift) that pushes the overpowered envelope as much as Seeds of Confusion. Arctic Air is a great power, but Seeds is pornographic. Not to hate on Plant too much, but to me Ice is a much more difficult set to play than Plant, and it almost entirely comes down to the "win" button that is Seeds.
Oh I almost forgot.
I think most of us can agree that AA is too awesome to skip.
And it's sad, because since I posted this I have grouped with 4 different Ice trollers, and NONE of them have had AA. Makes me cry.
P.S. - Should you happen to read this, Mr. Ice/Storm Troller who was in my group a few days ago, I didn't have the heart to tell you that you probably want to rethink your build. Taking 02 Burst and 3 powers out of the Medicine pool does not make up for skipping Arctic Air and Freezing Rain. You need more out of life than Block of Ice and Ice Slick. Your character is running at about 1/4th of his possible efficiency. Our group was taking hits and we should have been mopping the floor. I just didnt want to be rude and call you out after our first near wipe. 
I've had the opposite experience with my Ice/Kin. 8-man spawned Council, no bosses... sea of purple dots. It feels like the entire spawn is confused at times.
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/em jawdrop|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Taking 02 Burst and 3 powers out of the Medicine pool does not make up for skipping Arctic Air and Freezing Rain. You need more out of life than Block of Ice and Ice Slick.
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I will spot someone not taking Arctic Air, although now with the purple dots, it is clear it has not gotten the respect it always should have had, but a Stormer who does not take Freezing Rain... the mind just boggles. You MUST take that. *shakes head sadly*
However, as a result of this thread, I dusted off Ye Olde Lvl 50 Ice/Storm for Fun and Games with Banners. The bad news was that there were never very many folks running teams when I was on, but the good news was that I was able to hold down a banner solo and get it to vulnerability. With Tornado and Lightning Storm (although it got nerfed badly) smacking folks down, Freezing Rain and Ice Slick tripping them up, Jack wailing away with his Ice Sword and a Festive Dose of Fire Ball/Blast, the table was set for Arctic Air to confuse/frighten the rest of the baddies. This helped in two ways: not only did they NOT shoot me, they helped take themselves down to get the Banners vulnerable. So I lived and accomplished the mission.
Those purple dots were turning up a LOT, and melee attacks on me were almost nil. I took him out for some Trick or Treat and it was likewise wonderful.
I have an Ice/Rad in his 20s, and I am anxious to see what he can do now that he has Stamina.
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
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Now, yes, but that isn't just the proc firing. The purple dots are now a native part of the power. The only way to tell if the proc is really firing is to read the combat log.
| I've had the opposite experience with my Ice/Kin. 8-man spawned Council, no bosses... sea of purple dots. It feels like the entire spawn is confused at times. |
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Oh wow, your PUG teammate used Block of Ice? I seldom see anyone use the holds -- it's just immobilize/fireball/wait for fireball to recharge, in many cases. Holds are awesome, but usually I have to bring my own Controller if I want to see them.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
since I posted this I have grouped with 4 different Ice trollers, and NONE of them have had AA. Makes me cry.
P.S. - Should you happen to read this, Mr. Ice/Storm Troller who was in my group a few days ago, I didn't have the heart to tell you that you probably want to rethink your build. Taking 02 Burst and 3 powers out of the Medicine pool does not make up for skipping Arctic Air and Freezing Rain. You need more out of life than Block of Ice and Ice Slick. |
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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I agree about the immobilize. That kills me everytime. | Oh wow, your PUG teammate used Block of Ice? I seldom see anyone use the holds -- it's just immobilize/fireball/wait for fireball to recharge, in many cases. Holds are awesome, but usually I have to bring my own Controller if I want to see them. |
I think there is a rule somewhere that says the only place you are allowed to spam AoE immobs is on top of Ice Slick. And I'm lol'ing about the immob, fireball, wait strategy. I see that a lot too, and wonder if people are having fun playing gimped Defenders.
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Ice/Rad doesn't get enough respect. It is the ultimate soft-controller. Ice Slick, AA, RI, EF, CC... gg... Of course, it'll play absolute hell on your endurance bar, but I'm pretty sure it's completely impossible (AVs excluded) for one to sustain enough damage to die in such a situation. Especially if one is using the Lockdown/Contagious Confusion procs.|
Originally Posted by Melancton
I have an Ice/Rad in his 20s, and I am anxious to see what he can do now that he has Stamina.
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On top of those, though, you also get EM Pulse and Glacier.
As far as the AoE immobilize --> Fireball --> Fireball game goes... Eh. Fire/Kins. Whenever I have an immob --> fb --> fb user, it's usually one of them. Fulcrum Shift is nice, but I generally don't like them on my teams. Maybe it's my pathological hatred of Fire Control, though. Aside from Flashfire, which can't realistically be used on every mob, can a Fire Controller really be called a Controller? I'd rather have an Ice/Earth/Plant Controller any day. Even Grav would be more welcome.
Anyways, that's a tangent that I'd rather not further explore. AA is awesome, and has my vote as the set-defining power in Ice Control. Take that, Ice Slick.
I recently started an Ice/Earth Dom despite all the critique against Ice/, and on my way to 20 I've started wondering more and more why the set is ill-reputed. I just put on an Ice Slick against the alpha, slow the enemies with Shiver to stop them staggering too far without suppressing Ice Slick and then jump in activating AA. I rarely have any issues due to everyone being busy crawling away from me at a ridiculous speed and attacking each other instead of me.
I'm seriously looking forward to the Contagious Confusion proc at lvl 50.
I've also been on a lvl 42 8-man-team yesterday and while I wasn't able to stand the remaining aggro myself, I noticed that at the moment I died, the Brute was toast, while she didn't take any noticeable damage at all while I was alive. I've wondered if I'm a real Dom with Ice/ - This was my proof that I am.
I think I've asked this question before so hopefully you will forgive me.
I keep running into Ice Controllers on PUGs who do not have Arctic Air. The actual builds have varied, ranging from what I would call absolutely terrible (lvl 25 Ice/Empathy with only Block of Ice and Ice Slick from the primary) to just varied. The lack of Arctic Air makes me wonder how much they are contributing to the team, tho.
I have a level 50 Ice/Thermal. And what I can't figure out is what powers people are leveraging in order to skip Arctic Air. I also have to wonder if all the people skipping this power aren't the reason so many believe Ice isn't a very good primary.
I have heard some say that Shiver can replace Arctic Air, and that Ice is a "melee optional" set, but to me thats like saying Quicksand (decent slow and -defense) replaces Volcanic Gasses (ridiculously awesome AoE hold).
Another opinion I've heard is that getting into melee is too dangerous for a squishy. It seems very odd to me that this objection is frequently posed for Ice Control but not for (for example) Kinetics Defenders, who are much more vulnerable to attack than an Ice Controller.
So, opinions? Am I just an AA snob?