LuxunS

Swipe is fine the way it is. Compared to other tier 1 melee attacks its actually ahead of the curve DPA wise. Looking at fire, dark, and stone tier ones. It does more damage and has a faster activation time then stone fists. It has the same activation and damage as shadow punch but has the dot component. It does slightly less damage then scorch, but has a faster activation time that makes up for it. In addition swipe has the -20% recharge/speed, I'd say its an excellent attack.

Stone Fist – 1/1.188 = .84
Shadow Punch - .84/1.056 = 0.80
Scorch – 0.84 fire + 3*.1 fire/1.32 = 0.86

Swipe - .8 Lethal + 3x.08 toxic = 1.04/1.056 = 0.985

This
and this
Certainly the two major weakness that I complain about myself. When GR comes around I'm hoping that one or both of these will be options for post 50 power-ups.

I believe that they're just missing out on the change in tier of the power, not the change itself.

Really hoping VEATs aren't left out with the patron power additions like they were last time.

You can choose the respec reward 3 times from any combination of trials, it doesn't matter which level this is done at.

Example
You can do the low level treespec 3x
or
You can do the low level, mid level, high level treespecs 1x each
or
You can do the low level once and the high level twice

It doesn't matter which ones you do, you can only accept the respec reward three times total. If you're interested in merits, they are all on separate timers, so you can do them each daily.

I don't think any build would be able to take out all the vines solo. A small team can blow through the treespec easily. With my VG we would run teams of 4 and do just fine.

Touché

Actually if you read my post I talked about that, not sure if you missed it in the middle of all the math. Adding Surveillance DOES increase dps. The boost is not as significant as you may believe however. Only 13.84dps and I posted the math to back that up. If you find a mistake in the numbers feel free to point it out.


The reason for this is that when using surveillance it takes a bash out of the chain, after the first continuous attack chain you have a damage increase of 179 damage, but lost 188 from using surveillance in place of bash. It isn't until the 5th attack (roughly 9 seconds after casting surveillance) that the damage is increased. This leaves 11 out of every 20 seconds where the 20% dps buff is actually "effective".

tl;dr
Wavicle is not wrong, it does create a 20% increase in damage. However, PRAF is not wrong either, because the increase in damage does not become "effective" until after the animation time's break in damage is overcome.

1. Global recharge isn't the big deal, just need to have the powers recharge before their spot in the attack chain. The global recharge is important only for perma-hasten to maintain the level of recharge. With some of the chains, you can drop hasten completely, even the lowest damage of the continuous attack chains puts out enough to take down most AVs easily.
slash in 5.02s
strike in 2.38s
follow-up and lunge in 3.7s

2,3. I just threw that together quickly as an example, figured you'd tailor it to your playstyle and tastes. Tentacles don't really serve a purpose and I only checked the rule of 5s for recharge, didn't check for hp.

4. I recommend against this. After you have the build set for defense and attack chain, then work on the endurance consumption. The problem with using elude for end recovery is that it causes a crash, if you don't like using inspirations this makes things more difficult. As long as you don't run tough/weave or power pool maneuvers, and shut off tt:l you should be fine.

Made that up quick, but it should be able to run all the possible widow attack chains (might need to double check the recharge on slash for the quicker chains). In order from most to least damaging they are.

1. FU > Lunge > Slash > Strike > FU > Lunge > Strike > Slash > FU > Lunge > Strike > Swipe
2. FU > Lunge > Slash > Strike > FU > Lunge > Swipe > Strike > Slash > FU > Lunge > Strike > Swipe
3. Followup > Swipe > Lunge > Swipe > Slash
4. Followup > Lunge > Strike > Swipe > Slash
5. Followup > Lunge > Strike > Swipe
6. Followup > Swipe > Lunge > Swipe

Edit: Forgot to put follow-up in the build, silly me!

I said I came up with the build. My current build has perma-mind link, no complaining teammates. If I ever built the other one, it would be strictly for soloing AVs or for teams that the 15% defense wouldn't make a significant contribution.

DPS examples will use this build. It has several possible attack chains and all the debuffs and pets w/ softcapped defenses and aid self. Pretty much anything you'd want to solo AVs.
** Note - None of the builds take pets into account. I didn't want to give myself too big a headache. Plus its difficult to account for their survivability as it would vary depending on how well the bane held aggro, as well as the powers used by the individual AV.

[color:#489AFF]Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.401[/color]
[color:#489AFF]http://www.cohplanner.com/[/color]

[color:#B1C9F5]Click this DataLink to open the build![/color]

A chain using Venom Grenade and Surveillance often enough to keep the debuff up all the time, and using the most efficient attack chain I could come up with in between. This includes the damage buff from assault and build-up and a constant 40% resistance debuff. (Sorry the math is so long, I had to write it all out to make sense to myself, and make sure i didn't make any mistakes)

Surveillance > Venom Grenade > Poisonous Ray > Build Up > Pulverize > Shatter > Poisonous Ray > Pulverize > Bash > Shatter > Venom Grenade > Surveillance > Poisonous Ray > Bash > Pulverize > Shatter > Poisonous Ray > Pulverize > Bash > Shatter
0/.47/2.244/0/1.25/1.11/.89/1.25/.82/1.11/0/.47/2.244/.82/1.25/1.11/.89/1.25/.82/1.11 in 39.584 = 0.483
Bash = (55.61)*(1+.9583+.15+.8) + 10.8 = 161.73*1.4 = 226.42
Bash = (55.61)*(1+.9583+.15) + 10.8 = (128.04*1.4)*2 = 358.51
Venom Grenade = (54.6)*(1+.8992+.15) = (111.89*1.4)*2 = 313.29
Poisonous Ray = (111.2)*(1+.15+.8) + 14.36 = 231.2*1.4 = 323.68
Poisonous Ray = (111.2)*(1+.15) + 14.36 = (142.24*1.4)*3 = 597.41
Pulverize = (91.2)*(1+.9583+.15) + 10.77 = (203.05*1.4)*2 = 568.54
Pulverize = (91.2)*(1+.9583+.15+.8) + 10.77 = (276.01*1.4)*2 = 772.83
Shatter = (126.79)*(1+.9586+.15) = (267.35*1.4)*2 = 748.58
Shatter = (126.79)*(1+.9586+.15+.8) = (368.78*1.4)*2 = 1032.58
DPS = 124.85

This is admittedly higher then the original attack chain I posted w/ buildup. Which sits at 116.42. Another thing to note is that I don't have Poisonous Ray slotted for damage. If someone rebuilt the toon with PR slotted for damage, it would probably be the most damaging attack chain. I just threw that one together quickly.

The DPS from that original attack chain however if Surveillance is added, goes up a bit. Of the chains i looked at (with that build), this one offers the best DPS.

With Build-up and Surveillance
Bash > Pulverize > Bash > Shatter
.82/1.25/.82/1.11 in 7.392 = 0.54
Bash = (55.61)*(1+.9583+.15) + 10.8 = 128.04*2 = 256.08*1.23 = 314.98*1.2 = 377.98
Pulverize = (91.2)*(1+.9583+.15) + 10.77 = 203.05*1.23 = 249.75*1.2 = 299.7
Shatter = (126.79)*(1+.9586+.15) = 267.35*1.23 = 328.84*1.2 = 394.61
Taking into account BU and Surveillance replacing Bash ((145.06*35.3)-188.99))/35.3 = ((139.71*20)-188.99))/20
DPS = 130.26

Now, compared to the DPS done by my fortunata. My fort uses an attack chain that does less damage then any of the widow chains because I like dominate's hold while the purple triangles are down. The loss in DPS is worth the increase in survivability IMO.

Fortunata Attack Chain
W/ Assault
Follow up = (50.72)*(1+97.49+2*.3+.15) = 138.21
Lunge = (123.67)*(1+.967+3*.3+.15) + 35.3 = 408.41
Strike = (95.49)*(1+97.49+2*.3+.15) = 260.2
Dominate = (77.17)*(1+.967+2*.3+.15) + 35.3 = 244.97
Take into account Mind Link every 90s = ((221.33*90)-1051.79)/90
DPS = 209.64

The best attack chain for a widow would be
FU > Lunge > Slash > Strike > FU > Lunge > Strike > Slash > FU > Lunge > Strike > Swipe
.86/2.1/1.98/1.3/.86/2.1/1.3/1.98/.86/2.1/1.3/.985 in 14.52s = 1.22

Using the Softcapped build without ML I've been working on that chain comes out to be
W/ Assault + Procs
FU > Lunge > Slash > Strike > FU > Lunge > Strike > Slash > FU > Lunge > Strike > Swipe
.86/2.1/1.98/1.3/.86/2.1/1.3/1.98/.86/2.1/1.3/.985 in 14.52s = 1.22
Follow up = (50.72)*(1+.9749+2*.3+.15) = 138.21*3 = 414.63
Lunge = (123.67)*(1+.9749+3*.3+.15) = 374.09*3 = 1122.27
Strike = (95.49)*(1+.9749+2*.3+.15) = 260.2*3 = 780.6
Swipe = (57.84)*(1+.9364+2*.3+.15) + 14.36 = 169.74
Slash = (174.86)*(1+.967+2*.3+.15) + 35.35 = 510.44*2 = 1020.88
DPS = 241.6

This while it may seem a big hurdle, actually isn't in practice. Ignoring any resist buffs, on paper my fortunata does 221dps. Mind link has to be recast every 90 seconds and I lose less then one full attack chain. Typically when I cast ML I do restart my attack chain, it ends up being about a 10dps loss in the end, not very significant. My next project is making a widow that doesn't need mind link, almost have the build where i want it

I tend to not get into discussions about archetyes I don't play, but PRAF68 is right about the bane animation times. I'm not going to get into the redraw, as i don't have a bane. Widows are good for soloing AVs because their attacks have very high DPA. They do better then most brute/scrapper sets. Banes on the other hand have very poor dpa. Since I don't have a bane, i'm not exactly sure what attack chain would be best but when I considered making one for AV soloing I worked up a build. Here are the numbers I came up with for DPA.

Bane Spider Soldier
Bash – 1.3/1.584 = 0.82
Shatter – 2.78/2.508 = 1.11
Pulverize – 2.14/1.716 = 1.25
Crowd Control – 2.11/2.244 = 0.95

Bash > Pulverize > Bash > Shatter
.82/1.25/.82/1.11 in 7.392 = 0.54

To put it short, thats garbage compared to widows. Even the lowest DPA of widow attack chains is twice as efficient.

Arachnos Widow
Swipe - .8 Lethal + 3x.08 toxic = 1.04/1.056 = 0.985
Followup - .91/1.056 = 0.86
Lunge – 1.82 + 4x.1 = 2.22/1.056 = 2.10

Followup > Swipe > Lunge > Swipe
.86/.985/2.1/.985 in 4.224s = 1.17

Not taking sides, just stating the numbers. That doesn't mean it can't be done. I've heard of people soloing AVs with pure range fortunatas, and the dpa for that chain is 0.66. It may be possible, but it would surely take some time.

Nope other way around. They're listed most damaging to least damaging.