Lakanna
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Posts
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Quote:Farmign AE generates a lot of INF, but the ticket cap ensures that the goods produced- salvage and recipes- are rewarded at a lower rate than INF. Once you hit the ticket cap, you aren't generating any more tickets, but you ARE generating more INF. Playing regular content doesn't have this limitation. The amount of salvage and recipes relative to INF produced will actually increase for farmers, increasing overall supply.Originally Posted by UnSub
First off, farming generates influence regardless of drops. This is always going to see prices at the overall level go up as only a small proportion (5%, I think) exits due to market fees. Other inf sinks - prestige conversion, contacts, etc - probably don't significantly eat up enough inf to ever meet the ever flowing ocean of inf into CoH/V. An improved ability to farm is only going to see inflation rates go up.
More supply is more supply. Demand isn't likely to spike, especially with the super-sidekick system making PLing a bit harder. When you increase supply overall, and don't increase demand, the net effect should be cheaper prices. I do agree, however, that unless purple recipes really DO rain down from the sky, demand will always outstrip supply, and prices will remain high on them. Expect them to come down a bit, but don't expect to pick them up for I9 prices ever again.Quote:Originally Posted by UnSub
More purples would be cheaper purples, if they all actually made it to market. Some do. Some end up slotted on the many alts people play with. Some go to guild mates. Demand is pretty much always going to strip supply with regards to purples, so prices will continue to rise overall (as they have been doing since they were introduced).
And was it different on an AE map? If the dedicated farmers trash stuff from AE, or trash stuff from regular content, it's a wash: no net effect on the market. Here's the fun part, though. By keeping only the stuff "worth selling" they increase supply of those fvery things. It's kinda how a market works: the participants adjust their production based on their profit margins. If common salvage became worthless again, you'd see a lot less of it on the market as people trash it, which makes it rarer and more valuable.Quote:Originally Posted by UnSub
More salvage doesn't equal cheaper salvage when the dedicated farmer knows what to keep and what to trash. As return rates change for certain salvage, so will farmers change what they farm. A lot of salvage / recipes earned by farmers are trashed so have no impact on the market.
Supply will be increasing on the very recipes that are the most expensive. Goat mentioned that supply would be DECREASING overall on set IOs, though, because more people will be farming regular content, which doesn't allow you to select all your rewards the way tickets do. Thus, expect a small increase for some of the more in-demand sets, especially at low levels (Regen tissue, Miracle, Steadfast- stuff that doesn't drop at 50).Quote:Originally Posted by UnSub
Some IO sets might see costs deflated as supply increases, but these are ones with low levels of demand. IO sets that are seen as desirable (or particular recipes for popular frankenslotting) will - as you stated - get more expensive. Farming probably isn't going to change this, except perhaps for what is to be increasing in value with powerset proliferation changes.
If the price goes high enough, some farmers will return to AE and farm tickets because it's steady income as opposed to the lottery rolls of purple farming.
More characters actively playing regular content means higher production of rewards, including IO recipes and salvage. More players playing AE means a lot LESS recipe and salvage drops. If these changes really do move farmers out of AE and back into regular content, then supply of everything should increase. if the changes don't work, then supply will remain constant while these new players you expect pour into the game. If demand goes that high, prices spike, and regular content farming becomes even more lucrative than it is currently. The smart farmers leave AE and farm regular content for increased earning potential. Self-interest makes the market go 'round.Quote:Originally Posted by UnSub
I'm also assuming that there are more characters involved in CoH/V than there were 6 months ago or so - more characters means higher levels of demand which in turn drives prices up. When Going Rogue hits and brings with it a heap of new players and characters prices will go up then too. Marketeers will benefit from such changes, but for casual players it puts an increasing number of IOs out of reach. -
Quote:The added content for villains who choose to quit redside altogether will be massive. For heros who go to the rogue isles, not so much. I fail to see that as a win for the redsiders.Originally Posted by Redbone
So, you think the blue side is going to get royally screwed over by Going Rogue as well? I mean, the added content for Villians will be massive, but not so much for the heroes....
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Quote:While I agree with your reasoning here, a lot of times the devs "obvious" intentions aren't always what is accomplished. Were the devs trying to move farmers out of AE, or PLers? Were they at all concerned with the sudden tsunami of cheap recipes on the market, and took steps (via ticket cap) to reduce the recipe rewards?Originally Posted by Nethergoat
They don't want farmers in AE.
Their previous punitive campaign to move them out was an unmitigated disaster.
Adding team size to the mission slider is an obvious effort to draw them out by improving the rewards available via 'real' content. It's a feature that will appeal only to farmers and powergamers, there's no point to it except as a lure to get those types of players out of AE.
Don't listen to what the devs say, watch what they do.
The intent behind this move is obvious.
Seems the devs aren't really concerned with INF rewards. They set certain IO sets to be very rare, and aside from a few halfhearted attempts to make things more accessible, they haven't changed much (tickets, merits- both with serious flaws.) Positron's ill-advised comment about merging the markets shows that they actually don't always have a clear idea of how the nuances of the in-game economy work. They've adjusted XP rewards, adjusted ticket drops, which were easy, but they haven't adjusted INF rewards at all in AE.
Watch what they say AND what they do. Either one can be misinterpreted. In the case of purples (going back to the OP) what they say and what they do has always been steady: they want them to be rare, and have so far done nothing to make them more accessible or easier to get. With that in mind, I have some doubts about the new difficulty system, and am eager to see it in practice. -
Just bad luck. And as noted aove, running an 8-man Invincible gives you less enemies than running it on difficulty 2 or 4. Higher-level enemies also don't offer any higher drop percentage than fighting greens, so you might want to consider setting the difficulty down to 2 for faster runs with more enemies per map.
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Alternately, if you can get a quick-recharging AoE stun or hold, Choking Cloud, enhanced for hold and accuracy, can hit up to 16 targets per pulse with a 7-second mag 2 hold. I have mine slotted with 4 basilisk's Gaze and a lockdown proc, and it can hold an entire mob by itself. It works very well as additional hold mag stacked on top of another AoE hold as well.
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I shouldn't be in closed beta. I get annoyed when something is /bugged, /petitioned, mentioned numerous times on the boards, and is STILL allowed to go live broken.
Then I can't resist saying "we warned you about this." -
I never saw that thread. You really should restart it, the forums can ALWAYS use some more positive stuff floating around.
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Quote:This sets off alarm bells to me. If you mean "we want them to be worth something" then it's all well and good. If you mean "these are potentially game-breaking and we don't really want people to have too many" then you made a mistake putting them in in the first place, because people WILL get them, somehow. And break the game. And then justify it by saying "but these were EXPENSIVE, so I DESERVE to be able to do what I do."Originally Posted by Castle
Still, there are major concerns regarding these becoming too prevalent.
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There's no single FAQ because, honestly, making INF hand over fist is extremely easy no matter what you do, as long as you stick with it. Demand in this game is so incredibly high for just about anything remotely useful, and supply so low, that as long as you are generating anything that can be sold on the market, in any quantity, it will sell if you price it to sell.
Salvage is low profit, but can lead to extremely high turnover rates. It's also easy to learn, and low-risk (INF-wise.) It's where most people learn the basics of marketing: cyclical behavior, low, high, and median prices, and why you shouldn't ever let your reach exceed your grasp. Also, you learn to spot people jumping your niche, mainly because the barrier to entry is so low.
Crafting IOs is a healthy profit. You may lost a bit int he beginning getting the memorization badges, but once you can start crafting memorized recipes, you're basically printing your own money: there is a steady demand for the big ones: accuracy, damage, defense, recharge, but some niches almost NEVER have anyone filling them. Find one of those, and you make a good profit consistently.
Flipping recipes and crafted IO's. I don't do it. It can be lucrative, but you can also lose a LOT if you misjudge things, or if someone steps into your niche and you don't catch it. There are entire guides written about flipping. Profits are highly variable, and in general, the bigger you bet, the bigger the potential payout. Flipping purples or PvP IOs for example, takes a lot of INF to get started, but can literally pay out hundreds of millions per market slot.
Of course, playing the game normally, in whatever way you see fit, supplements all this income. Run TFs, run regular content, run AE: it all generates rewards that you can use or sell. One thing that I would advise against, strongly, is saving merits for a specific recipe. Random rolls have, on average, far better returns per merit spent. The market is the best way to make INF, and one of the best things about it is that once you learn, you can log in, move your slots around, then go and make money on the market while you do other things.
[further edit, to address a specific question- AE tickets can be turned into other things. Random recipe rolls are a crapshoot, but if you hit it lucky, you can be looking at several million for a single rare. Even some Bronze-level recipes can go for big money, including the Steadfast protection set in 10-30 and the Regenerative Tissue unique also in that level range. Common salvage rolls give you a very cheap way to get lots of salvage for crafting common IOs, while uncommon salvage can be bought specifically to make a certain uncommon/rare recipe that you either bought to craft, or just happened to get while playing.] -
Honestly, I've seen a few good ideas for "cross-server" environments. I'm among those who would really prefer to keep the individual shards individual, but incorporate some way to temporarily transfer to a new server. While there, your name would be temporarily appended with your home server, you wouldn't be able to join SG/VGs or earn prestige for your home SG, but you could go and play with friends.
Honestly, I hope that they can do this, and do it at a fairly early level: early 20s at the latest, the point where rerolling on a new server is less attractive because the character is starting to come together. Since RWZ is going to be opened up, maybe a mission through their portal to unlock cross-dimensional travel, given by a new level 20+ contact? Sharing resources to fight the Rikti across many Paragon Cities...
More pie-in-the-sky, this would also be a nice way to introduce divergent servers. Faultline is rebuilt in one reality, but the heroes lose public confidence in another, and the Faultline reconstruction falters or even is pushed back by Arachnos. The Rikti are in full offense on servers that don't run regular raids and LGTFs, but the staunch opposition they face in another reality has them fighting on the defensive or even in a retreat. Differing server states based on player actions would be a very interesting thing, especially when players can recruit help from other servers to counteract (or accelerate) those changes. -
Avoiding the market, for whatever reason:
1: Accept that it will take you LOT more time and effort to achieve your goals unless those goals don't involve IOs to begin with. The market is several times faster and easier than anyother playstyle at making progress towards IO sets.
2: Farm a lot. Whether you plan on farming AE for tickets; or regular content for merits, salvage and recipes; you'll need to defeat a lot of enemies. Vendor common recipes. Recipes that are useful to you, craft and slot. Recipes that are not...
3: Join a healthy SG/VG. Preferably, be friends with the members, and run group content often. Offer up the recipes you know are good, but aren't planning on using. Let other SG mates know what you're looking for, and try to keep mostly fair in your dealings with the SG. SG storage is also a great place to put all that salvage you get.
4: Plan very far ahead. learn what uncommon and rare salvage you will need for the recipes you want. When you luck into them, you're set. If you happen to get salvage that you do not need, either give it to the SG, or, unless you really don't want to touch the market at all, put it up for vendor price. someone will buy it.
Always remember rule 1, though. If you're looking for rare recipes, The market is the only way to make efficient progress towards what you want. All other ways involve a lot of luck, a lot of time, or both. Apparently, it is OK with the devs that marketeering is disproportionately rewarded. I guarantee you that the regular posters in the market forum will defend the status quo that allows them such immense rewards with so little effort. -
Quote:This makes a lot of sense to me. I had heard people advocating a lower controller damage cap, but never understood why it would help. Explained this way, though, you're correct: it would hit the outliers, and have little effect on the sets that are performing more int he middle of the pack.Originally Posted by Frosticus
The only way I'm familar with achieving a per target damage boost is through the critical mechanic. And the critical mechanic always works outside of the damage caps. You can either reduce containment or reduce the damage cap. One way hits all trollers and depending on how it is implemented - across all levels. The other way hits a targeted few outliers and only when they start to stomp all over the game.
I have quite a few controllers and two lvl 50 /kins so I'm not personally keen on either, but if I had to choose one I'd take a bullet on my /kins before I made every troller combination suffer due to what /kin can do.
IIRC, containment was set up originally to help controllers solo, because they had low initial damage. I would say that someone leveraging a damage-capped, containment-boosted hot feet or fireball no longer NEEDS containment to fulfill its original role. -
2 accounts. Makes it convenient to transfer things, and to PL lowbies. I would reactivate an old trial account, but my computer has enough trouble running 2 copies, 3 is out of the question.
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Not that I'm in the closed beta, or have ever been invited to one, but in all honesty, WHY?
At least some of the invites are sent out to random-seeming accounts. People who have let account expire, for example. How in the world can you claim that confidentiality is crucial, then let a small number of random people in?
For that matter, do you really believe that it HELPS the community to know that certain people have access to all the information about the new expansion, and can't tell the "normal" people about it? Don't you think this might contribute to the perception that an "elite" group in closed beta gets extra dev attention? Or the gripe posts that come up EVERY closed beta complaining that some people seem to always get in, and some 60+ month veterans have never been invited?
Obviously, you believe that the secrecy surrounding a new issue is worth some player discontent. Is this something that has been really considered, or just something that's just always been this way? -
You might want to check out the TFs in Ouroboros. They aren't a huge time investment, can be started by a single player, and give decent rewards (not to mention, they can be incredibly fun.)
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Quote:Earth is actually a pretty decent damage set, and very safe as well. I posted a while back in this thread, that controllers often get far more synergy out of the buff sets than defenders as well. Earth/ alone might not outdamage every defender build out there, but Earth/TA offers heavy control and -res, -def, -regen. Earth/Kin has a safe fulcrum shift, Earth/Rad can leverage Choking Cloud easily, and even Earth/Emp, Earth/Thermal, and Earth/FF, post-32, can use their full suite of powers solo- stoney is a beast when he's buffed.Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning
Saying that all controllers do more damage than defenders is highly debatable. Earth, Ice and possibly mind controllers, in my experience, do far less damage than a defender merely because the powers that do damage for them are generally not slotted for damage - and to compound matters Earth and Ice controllers best controls don't *do* any damage (Earthquake, Ice Slick, Arctic Air, etc). We all know the outlier control sets, but this thread seems to be judging the entire controller population on the outlier sets, which isn't entirely accurate.
I couldn't stand Ice/ or Mind/, so I have no comment on them, but I'll bet the even if I concede defender builds a damage advantage, an earth/ controller will still solo faster due to synergy and safety. And teamed, controllers force-multiply just as well as defenders, while bringing even more to the table initially. -
Quote:I have to admit, I have a MA/SD scrapper, and the animations are so very nice. I'll stop paying attention to the enemies at times just to watch what that crazy scrapper is DOING. I don't know how they'd look with granite, but the eagle's claw animation as done by a 10-ton chunk of stone would be hilarious.Originally Posted by Vojin
No one here can say that seeing a Granite Brute Eagle Claw someone wouldn't be the coolest thing EVER. It would be so awesome that it should do extra damage since you are dropping something equivalent to 1/2 a ton of GRANITE on their FACES
Yes. Capped in certain places.
Edit: on the topic of Spines, I'd like to see that go to Tanks personally.
Ice/Spines? Icicles and Quills? Yes please. -
I think a single heal IO maxes out regen in rest for everyone but stalkers an scrappers (they might need 2).
Multi-slotting rest for +regen really isn't worthwhile. -
Actually: 2 kins, so they can SB each other too. But after that, you're better off getting any other buff/debuff set, they all stack a bit better than kin does. YMMV as always, this is from playing my kin/sonic defenders.
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Quote:After all these pages and pages, it's pretty obvious though. There is no such buff.Originally Posted by Scorpious_EU
I agree with the damage + debuff/buffs should = defender not controller. 100%
Im not entirely sure we cant come to some solution to increase defenders without a nerf, the solution i gave *might* do that (it could also be tweaked to count as team of 1 when defender is solo) and would definitely work in a team situation where the defender often feels outshined: since the controller would also be helping to fuel the defenders +damage and +status resist.
Im just sick of seeing nerfs and would prefer another solution. At this stage of the game, we dont need that can of unstablising affect on the game, so id like to see a buff to defenders which helps to balance defender Vs controller without making defender > blaster.
Defender damage is low. Controllers do as much or more damage, have similar buff/debuff capability, and bring controls to the team as well. Buff defenders to be on par with controllers, and you make blasters obsolete. The only viable solution, as much as people don't want to hear it, is to nerf controllers. A good start would be to go through and cut controller buff/debuff values, ALL of them, to 60% of defender values. Yes, that means FS too. Controllers would still contribute meaningfully to buffs and debuffs, but a defender would be far more useful to a team looking for support. (on a side note, the PToD would need to be reevaluated- controllers need to ba able to do SOMETHING during an AV fight. Maybe change the protection to resistance so that controllers still can't perma-hold an AV, but holds aren't completely useless either)
Defenders solo. Another touchy subject. a small damage boost, say taking ranged modifier from .65 to .75, wouldn't be unjustified. More than that, and you have them doing damage that is competitive with blasters. Personally, I'd like to see defenders get an inherent that functions similar to defiance and domination: a small power boost effect that builds as you use powers, and that scales with team size. This would, however, change the way defenders play, encouraging an active and engaged playstyle over a more passive or reactive one. -
Quote:Just to let you know, that sounds an awful lot like "exploit" and you might want to be very careful about doing this. The devs have fixed a few ways to exceed the ticket cap. they REALLY don't want people doing it.Originally Posted by Not_Epsilon
Personally, there are ways around the ticket cap, when i run my mish, without reseting, 8 spawned and with 2 ppl, i average about 12k tickets a run per 1 and a half hours.
The fact of it is that most people don't know how to do this -
Quote:How about defense OR resist? Put the +resist bonuses into sets that would compete for slot space with +defense ones. The 6th slot on melee or ranged damage, for example, or create a new universal power set that requires 4 slots to pick up some nice resistances.Originally Posted by Organica
I think you answered your own question. Blasters, controllers, etc can soft-cap or come close to soft-capped defenses. Do you really want people to be able to slot heavily for both defense and resist?
More possible builds is always a good thing, and a little foresight goes a long way towards later balancing. -
Quote:You are not alone. Scrappers and brutes on both accounts chomping at the bit in anticipation of this change. And a similar plan, as well: dump anything I don't need onto the market cheap. The really good farmers aren't stupid, they'll understand that farming for drops and salvage is more profitable than just farming for INF in AE, once they can pad a map for 8 with no troubles.Originally Posted by BillZBubba
I look forward to I-16 and the effect it will have on the markets. I'm under the impression that supply is about to outstrip demand.
srmalloy, I don't know about other folks, but come I-16, I'll have absolutely no reason to use the AE unless I want to go run someone's story arc. I'll be cranking through paper missions solo set for a team of 8 on the 4th difficulty and in doing so, will be dumping all the salvage I get on the market for 250 inf a pop. I won't need to make cash off of the market because I'll be capped out on inf from running missions.
I doubt I'm alone in this.
Only downside I can see is that the low-level recipes might creep back up a bit: steadfast, karma, regen tissue- but the farmers who don't leave AE will still produce those, too. -
It just occured to me today, is this the bug that's letting the repairmen in the STF get their repairs off immediately? Sounds like death is no longer interrupting powers that are queued up, which would lead to the behavior described here, and to the unstoppable repairs on the STF towers.
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47's are easier to beat than 50's. If you know what mission you're going to be farming at 50, get it around 46. Farm it relentlessly. The recipe drops except for purples might be anywhere from 47 to 50, but you'll be able to clear the map in less time per run.