IronAlex

Originally Posted by Novella

Before Light Form was made perma I played by Peacebringer (human form) 1 to 50 as my main and completely IO'd her out. Anyone that says playing PB's is bad is either retarded or only likes playing easy to use characters such as Dominators. I've been told a couple times that I have the best Peacebringer build people have seen. That makes me feel good considering how many people have negative feelings towards Peacebringers. They are effective in any team AND with Cosmic Balance you are always receiving a buff of some kind to make you even better.

If you know how to play a Blaster or Scrapper then you can play a Beastbringer. My PB has perma Light Form, Inner Light, and Restore Essence, and is a complete monster. She had perma RS before the change so that made it nice having capped HP, but the changes just made PBs even more powerful than they already are.

As for KB, I love it and have always loved it. Pop some +rech procs in your powers and you could potential cap your recharge without any buffs. I love Warshades too, played two of them human form only, but ended up deleted each one post-40. You can't compare them at all, but if I were to compare them I would roll a Peacebringer each and every time. That being said I still think Eclipse is the best tier 9 power on the game and has been for a long long time, but the LF timer shorten puts it on par if not ahead of even the mighty Eclipse now.

Originally Posted by Nericus

My first build combined IO set recharge bonus plus dual slotted hasten plus the T4 Spirutual Core paragon. Permlightform and permhasten, unforunately I noted a couple of minor drawbacks:

1. All that recharge great offset stamina recovery during intense battles also due to having weave, maneuvers and stealth running to reach the S/L def cap.

2. Lightform was reactivating well before previous activation would crash, so let's say you have it "stacked" 3 times and you see that two are going to wear off either at the same time or back to back....you will receive the crash from both, and that could be bad.

So we'll call the above, Permalightform One.

Currently I'm running permhasten, a tweaked build and CARDIAC is back in place for my alpha. Permalightform and hasten misses being perma by 5 seconds, however as long as it is retoggled, lightform remains perm and has less overlap crash problems. S/L defense cap is maintained and stamina is neutralized. This would be an Ascended Permalightform, or Permalightform 2.

Still working on Permalightform 3 (no hasten), but defense cap will be lost and I don't like that idea very much.

Originally Posted by Kioshi

Yay feedback! Thanks!



Oh I'm already at 5 LoTGs. The PF proc is not there just because I use an Endmod IO to simulate my recovery without it, although either way the build (for now at least, 20 DOs) doesn't seem very end intensive even with the two shields and Luminous Detonation (which I'm hating, not because of KB but low damage - despite the numbers being similar, looks like Proton Scatter is way better) - but the shields and Luminous will be dropped in the final build.



Boxing is a set mule for Kinetic Combats (s/l def), and I can't drop it if I want Weave. The reason for Thunderstrikes is to achieve 28.8% ranged and 27% e/n def. Also it has 31.9% s/l def which is good enough for me since with 1 purple I'm almost softcapped, bad thing is that I need those Kinetic Combats.

But it seems like I'll need to lower my defenses if I want to get extra recharge.

Originally Posted by Microcosm

I've always approached pb's from at least human-centric, if not human only.

Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe

Yeah, but for what kind of chance of it activating?

The logic behind putting the proc in every power stems from wanting to keep up a more or less persistent resistance debuff on your enemy by loading the odds of the proc firing.

If you want to max out purples, that's one thing, but a -res proc in every attack - provided you can afford the slot - is never a wasted slot, IMHO.

Oh, and yay for finally being able to post.

Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy

I personally don't really like the superprocing, I think you could get more mileage out of your build slotting the full purple sets and topping each of your attacks off with the -res proc.

A big part of the appeal Human Form only has for me is the massive amounts of defense you can build- Resistance is great but it will only get you so far. I feel like your survivability would be an issue if you planned on soloing tough content, ie: 54x8 Arachnos/Malta/Soloing AV's.

Slotting full purple sets will also get you more recharge which can never hurt. Since money doesn't seem to be an issue for you, have you seen my Human Form PB build? Here are some of the stats, maybe if you like them you can use the build for some ideas.

-167.5% Global Recharge (Perma Light Form and some breathing room)
-85% Resistance to s/l/f/c/e/n
-77.9% Resistance to Toxic (85% w/Essence Boost)
-31.6% s/l defense (will be higher in game since combat flight is providing positional only in Mids)
-29% Melee Defense, 27.2% Ranged Defense, 22.9% AoE Defense
-251% Regeneration, 1457 HP (2145 w/Essence Boost)
-110 Max Endurance, 4.94/s End Recovery
-Resistance Debuff Procs in every attack that will be used (Aside from Photon Seekers)
-Fantastic Enhancement Values

edit- My build has enough recharge to have a single target attack chain without using glinting eye, and yours should too.

Originally Posted by Irresponsible

Mostly I was just joking about how nobody ever seems satisfied with Kheldians while I'm a little in awe of how much the Devs have improved them since I started playing one about 4 years ago.

Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy

PVP? What is with all this PVP talk? No one cares about PVP.

Originally Posted by Socorro

Wow...so with the right slotting the New Lightform alone could get you to pretty much cap resist...

That's interesting

And I'm utterly astounded that some of you are suggesting this should be nerfed!!

Overpowered? Who cares? I don't think so, but even if it is, for the first time ever, PBs might be slightly overpowered in a tiny niche area.

Lamenting that you won't need the shields? Why? I'll now forego the shields completely, and concentrate on getting my damage, recharge, and defense, and endurance management up there. Maybe I can at least get in the ballpark of upper level excellence some of my other maxed characters are.

Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill

Well, after all the doom and gloom here and in closed/open beta about "oh my god, PBs are so underpowered, why did I ever make one when my warshade is purple and makes waffles too, I'm deleting my PB after 6 levels, whine, whine, whine" I can't say I find the "joke" all that amusing.

I don't think I've ever seen a forum that seems so dedicated to getting people NOT to play an AT. Even the Stalker forum is more positive. Which should say something.

Originally Posted by Psyrene

Neither

Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy

I was pretty much entirely referring to one person, my comment wasn't directed at you in the least.

I don't think the new Light Form is too strong, I just don't entirely like how it works. In my opinion, it should provide enough resistance to everything including Psi that all resists can be capped at 85% with the use of shields or Dwarf form. I don't think it should allow you to cap all resists with the click of a button, the crash isn't a big enough penalty for a power like that.. Like you said, it's a breeze to recover from.

(By the way, is conserve power going to have a purpose on a perma-LF build? I thought LF itself provided the same recovery bonus or similar to conserve power, so if it can be run all the time is there a reason to have both powers?)

Originally Posted by Tabcef

people who are saying light form is a more dependable power:

have you actually tried using the new version of it in perma/close to perma?
i don't understand how someone could say this if they had experienced the crash firsthand. avoiding the crash and ending up with little endurance after fighting in tf or x8 situations where you actually have to contribute to a fight is nigh impossible, and recovering from it so you can maintain light form without being completely disabled requires you to give up one of your incarnate slots to do so for extended periods of time. and that's only if you have it significantly perma'd in. without that it's even worse.

please don't forget about the crash because it really is that significant.

Originally Posted by Zenyth

Well, that's just it. I'm not wanting to "nerf" our resistance...not really anyways...I'm just wanting to turn the HUGE amount of excess we have into something else. Defense, Regen, SOMETHING...

It's been suggested before, turn our shields into defense rather than resists. At the lower levels it helps with the lack of mez prot because the mez's just aren't HITTING as often, at the higher levels it doesn't have us squished up against the resist cap from our Tier 9's, our inherent, our shields, and any buffer's in the party who happen to have taken a resistance buffing set. Shining for Ranged or Smash/Lethal. Thermal for AoE or Fire/Cold. Quantum for Melee or Energy/Negative. We lose 22.5% resistance (Unenhanced) gain 7-12% defense instead. Lightform's only getting us to 52.5% (Again unenhanced). If the idea someone else had went through to lower the resistance on lightform but gain Psi also went through...that'd be about 35% resists to all...unenhanced so that'd go up. 7-12% defense, with 35% resist, and gaining 10% resist from the offensives on our team is gonna give our resistance cap some breathing room to accomodate not only resist buffs from our inherent, but also from teammates. It makes the shields useful, keeps dwarf's "purpose" (resisty, high HP, tank) helps lower level kheldians, and doesnt really cost us anything because we didn't "lose" anything, it just shifted things around a bit, either gaining psi at a slight loss from other resistance types, or gaining defense instead. Overall, we're a stronger AT for it because we're layering our protection. Potentially OP? Yeah a bit, but not to such a degree that we're gonna start soloing Incarnate trials anytime soon.

Admittedly? Thats from a Peacebringer's perspective, I can't really judge what would be required out of Warshade's. Id say Eclipse should have to have a smaller target limit put in place, and I know WS's would have a hissy over such a suggestion, but sometimes you gotta give an inch to gain a mile. Besides, with the shields becoming defense that's three less LotG fillers you have to take from power pools...



Traitor!

I don't know though. On the one hand, Arachnos got rated, we really should get rated. On the other, I can understand the ?'s because we are intended to be a little more malleable than everyone else. They could at least fix the description to take out the implication that we don't get anything from teaming with other kheld's anymore.

Originally Posted by Zenyth

I don't even really get how its holding us back!

I mean, once I21 goes live I'll cap my own resistances (sans Psi anyways), so the 10% I get from the inherent per offensive AT isn't really going to be doing anything for me; and Warshades have been enjoying Eclipse self-capped for years now.

My damage wont be capped, but Warshades are pretty consistently bumping their noggins against the damage cap from the way they talk, so for them that's another part of the inherent that they aren't really getting much out of.

Do we really need to talk about the mez prot? Really? To be honest, we do because its the exact opposite of the other two. In their cases they're piling more on top of whats already topped off, but in the mez prots case its just so little that it might as well not even be there. If you've got enough controllers/dominators to make the mez prot worth it, nothings attacking you anyway because its all locked down pretty hardcore.

For the resistance and damage portions of our inherent it looks like a lot, but in several cases we're already THERE...and its a hard cap, so its not like we're even getting reduced benefit out of it.

Lets be honest, most of what I'm pointing out here is probably more likely to get us NERFED...which should be fairly ridiculous on its own considering where we're at, but its kinda what we need. At least HALF of what we need anyways...We DO need to lose some of the resistance we've got, we need some of our +dmg% effects to be rolled into the powers naturally, we need some of what we DO have to be shuffled a bit with OTHER forms of effects. It can't just be straight cuts, and it can't just be ignoring yet more "wonk" in our powers.

I've stated several times in the past that all I really want is for my AT to make sense. I dont think we need a "back to the drawing board" overhaul, but I do believe its gonna take more than just lowering some cooldowns, and calling it a day. They're gonna have to directly play with some numbers, change some abilities focus, and skirt the cottage rule fairly hard (if not break it in some places). We need a fairly extensive tune-up, PB's more than WS's; but we both suffer from some of the same problems, even if they're coming from different sources.

Originally Posted by oreso

Why have the toggles suppress? If they just carried over into forms, it would make both the forms and the shields much more attractive and easier to use. That's all toggles too; assault, etc. And while we're at it, let my Dwarf click hasten. Integrate the forms into the AT.

If the AT mods cannot be altered on the fly (such that Nova gets less benefit from the shields for example), then a swap ammo trick can be used to swap the value with a reduced one. Nova would still be getting decent numbers from Tough and Weave, but whoopdie-do, Blasters get an Epic pool with superior armour powers.

I think our goal should be to make each form not just a plug for the holes in the Kheld's abilities, but a fully-fledged and useful way of fighting in their own right. Shouldn't require massive changes, just a difference in emphasis. With Taunt autohitting and Mez becoming less of an issue (so Dwarf isn't a glorified break free) I'd say we're making great strides to it.