PB as bad as people say?
I like PB. Very high AoE damage in nova form, high burst single target damage in human form, excellent survivability with three separate self-heals (one in human, one in dwarf, and a dull pain clone) and dwarf form. They also get a really fast uninterruptible heal other which always surprises me with its effectiveness.
Obviously WS has its perks as well, but I suspect many people who complain about PB are expecting human-form blasting to give them satisfaction, which it will not. In my mind, the main argument for WS over PB is for the -res debuffs it provides (and free recall friend), but I always have a soft spot in my heart for PB.
Peacebringers were perfectly playable even before the changes, but they weren't easy. Warshades, other than the forms, are completely different and shouldn't be compared that way.
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
ok so what did the change do? What's this perma light form I hear about
I'm no min maxer but I couldn't stand PBs, I found them so weak, but I kept trying them.
After the buffs I actually like mine now. Sure to min max you'll need an expensive build and you won't farm or devastate tons of mobs like a WS, but I find the playstyle very fun - even on SOs she feels very damaging especially with the Inner Light power. It's like a blapper with shields and heals, or a scrapper with ranged attacks but no mez protection (since I don't have Light form yet).
ok so what did the change do? What's this perma light form I hear about
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Before, you could have decent resistances from your shields and cap them using Light Form, but not often and with a very dangerous crash. Now you can have capped resistances all the time without shields, and the crash is much lighter (although I find it annoying that often).
That also means you can have mez protection all the time, but not much.
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
I think WS are easier to get right because they've been able to perma eclipse for longer. There has been more practise and experience shared on them.
With PBs perma light form is more recent and perhaps more needs to be looked at under the hood now so to speak. I have no doubt that someone will make a PB their main, purpling it out and proving all the haters they're wrong. If the hate is cos of KB then I suggest upping the setting, I can be literally wondering "what KB?"
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
As mentioned already, if you spend enough to get Lightform and Inner Light perma (and throw in some SL defense; it works wonders), PBs can really do it these days.
I always set my missions to +8 and just roll whatever comes up, not cherrypicking missions. Any build that can't roll thru these doesn't get to solo. My PB can now solo the same missions that my brute, scrapper and MM can. Her AoE, while not exceedingly high, is awesome because she has so much of it, and of course ST damage has always been good for PBs.
Again, this advice is for expensive endgame builds (mine cost billions), and going Human Only is more effective for these types of builds. With Perma Lightform you are more survivable than Dwarf (and moreso than any Scrapper or Brute I've ever played) and you can beat out Nove for ST and AoE damage. With less expensive builds, the forms and shields are still quite valuable.
Before Light Form was made perma I played by Peacebringer (human form) 1 to 50 as my main and completely IO'd her out. Anyone that says playing PB's is bad is either retarded or only likes playing easy to use characters such as Dominators. I've been told a couple times that I have the best Peacebringer build people have seen. That makes me feel good considering how many people have negative feelings towards Peacebringers. They are effective in any team AND with Cosmic Balance you are always receiving a buff of some kind to make you even better.
If you know how to play a Blaster or Scrapper then you can play a Beastbringer. My PB has perma Light Form, Inner Light, and Restore Essence, and is a complete monster. She had perma RS before the change so that made it nice having capped HP, but the changes just made PBs even more powerful than they already are.
As for KB, I love it and have always loved it. Pop some +rech procs in your powers and you could potential cap your recharge without any buffs. I love Warshades too, played two of them human form only, but ended up deleted each one post-40. You can't compare them at all, but if I were to compare them I would roll a Peacebringer each and every time. That being said I still think Eclipse is the best tier 9 power on the game and has been for a long long time, but the LF timer shorten puts it on par if not ahead of even the mighty Eclipse now.
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Any one got any numbers on Perma light form? Like how much slotting do I need and how much global rec do I need to perma it?
I have perma lightform, inner light and essence boost with 178.5% global.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
When ever I mention PBs in game around 5 people instantly tell me to avoid and instead roll a WS because apparently they're PBs except better. Did the PB buffs fix anything at all? Or am I just going to end up with a lame WS?
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Not into shapeshifting? Even better. Human only peacebringers are the one's that excel (imo). With the new Light Form, my Peacebringer can retain 85% resistance to everything (excluding psionics) and can perma Essence Boost, maxing my health out at 1700. My Incandescent Strike hits for ungodly amounts of damage and, with the use of incarnate abilities, I can truly be one formidable hero. My normal mission is at x8 +2 difficulty, which took a lot of effort before the patch with my PB. My AoE is strong, and while it may knock opponents around, they will usually run right back to me so I can do another big flashy handclap of light blue fuzzy doom.
The main advantage a PB has over a Warshade is the fact that a PB's key abilities do NOT require an enemy's presence. We have full access to our uber resistance and awesome self heals (and don't diss glowing touch! its actually really good!) all the time. Warshade's have to constantly drown in enemies to stay strong, making them much more poor combatanants when fighting one or two mobs. Warshades will out dps us by far in AoE due to their siphoning capabilities, but I prefer to keep my fully accessible Light Form over the mob requiring Eclipse anyday. Deciding between a PB and a WS is truly just a matter of playstyle. PB for a generally balanced all around character and WS for an uber killing machine... if more than 5 enemies are within siphoning distance.
My PB is by far my favorite toon, and I don't think I've ever put more effort into a single character. PB's aren't bad. Quite the contrary. They're just difficult to play and have a steep learning curve.
Templar of Judgement Level 50+++ Triform Warshade - Server Freedom
And you thought eight Kheldians were awesome...
Those people who told you to avoid the PB only said that either beause it was too hard of an AT for them to play or they didn't understand how to play one. The PB buffs did more than fix us; for the first time PB's aren't laughable. We can be taken seriously because of the synergy implemented with the new Light Form and Inner Light. We an shapeshift and retain those buffs, giving us resistance similair to Eclipse and a decent damage boost.
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I don't understand why you guys say PBs are 'hard to understand', especially Human Form. Sure might take sometime to figure out about perma light form and its benefits but it's kind of a smooth ride compared to a Warshade - I don't necessarily find Warshades 'hard', even triform, I just can't get used to them because it feels I have to do a lot of stuff to accomplish something, so I'd classify them as complex, and much more than PBs.
I'm used to busy toons like Controllers which I have as many keybinds as my semi-shelved warshade but really, PBs are pretty straightforward and have a good progress once you're done messing with what power you wanna keep (since there are so many), and even easier without the slot starving from a triform. The reason I disliked PBs before was the same reason a lot of powersets aren't popular, they used to feel underperforming, even to a lot of PB fans, or else we wouldn't have seen so much asking for their well-deserved buffs, and of course the people who asked for them were not players like me, but the ones who played PBs extensively - just like I always asked for Stalker changes because I play them a lot, and yes I can relate to loving an AT that feels underperforming because I like Stalkers since before the i12 buff.
Now I know someone will come and say they play their WSs easily and is second nature, they just didn't fit my playstyle with eclipse-mire-mire-change form-etc-kill mobs-stygian-etc. Now PBs for me are much simpler than controllers, an AT I adore because you always have something to do and most do not require a lot of steps to get massive results like triform WSs - again that's my personal opinion and you're all free to disagree with me, and unlike someone else said, many people have difficulties playing Dominators because mob control is not the simplest of tasks in this game to learn and a lot of new players are afraid to go to melee with them and realize they're control/damage and should use their damage secondary like any damage oriented toon once they are safe enough to do it.
In the end, while you may have a PB that was ZOMG powerful with plenty of IOs for years, if an AT or a powerset (like, say, devices on Blasters, Ta on defenders) doesn't feel like they deliver much *while leveling*, they aren't gonna be popular. Doms were less popular than Stalkers before the revamp, I played one from 1-50, got her purpled, but 90% of her leveling career I was the only one on my team (and I only started seeing a lot of fire/psis later because they were the best villain farmers and lived at 50 on Grandville, mine isn't a fire/psi). It's just weird seeing PB players who asked so much for buffs (that again, turned them into great performers even on SOs) saying now that 'they were criticized because people didn't understand them'. Come on.
In the end, while you may have a PB that was ZOMG powerful with plenty of IOs for years, if an AT or a powerset (like, say, devices on Blasters, Ta on defenders) doesn't feel like they deliver much *while leveling*, they aren't gonna be popular. Doms were less popular than Stalkers before the revamp, I played one from 1-50, got her purpled, but 90% of her leveling career I was the only one on my team (and I only started seeing a lot of fire/psis later because they were the best villain farmers and lived at 50 on Grandville, mine isn't a fire/psi). It's just weird seeing PB players who asked so much for buffs (that again, turned them into great performers even on SOs) saying now that 'they were criticized because people didn't understand them'. Come on.
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But this is all just my opinion, of course.
![Cool](images/smilies/cool.gif)
Templar of Judgement Level 50+++ Triform Warshade - Server Freedom
And you thought eight Kheldians were awesome...
I would dare say most AT's feel underperforming at lower levels. And personally? Leveling my PB was a very smooth ride, and that was before i21. My only conclusion is that players didn't understand them. Besides controllers/dominators/masterminds, I definitely wouldn't say Kheldians are "simplistic" at all. They take a major amount of planning, timing, and work. Which is also why they feel really rewarding to play.
But this is all just my opinion, of course. ![]() |
The thing is, some powersets (because no AT actually feel underperforming in every way to me while leveling) kinda turn players off early. My dominators were an example of that - I took the ice/psi to 50 because I knew I was gonna get 'ZOMG PSW' - at the same time I took a plant/thorns to 35 and man, the damage always felt lacking (all before the revamp so the plant/thorns was not one I was willing to go to 50 and do all the permadom IOing to get good mileage from her at the time).
What I mean that lots of powersets actually don't feel underperforming is when I roll a toon (like an ice blaster, let's not talk about fire stuff here) and feel 'whoo this has potential' since I had 3 attacks. Then... my DP one felt weakish but I liked the animations so much I had to roll another and another until I was happy with a DP/Dark corr (and I know numerically DP isn't that hot anyway but I like her).
PBs used to feel like that to me and now I find them very very good, and mine isn't IOed or anything - I'd say I started being pleased with my newest PB just after I got Inner Light, way before SOs. And when a toon feel good so early it makes you wanna play them to their max much more unless cases like old /psi doms when people knew they were going to endure 40 levels of 'sucky controller' to get an amazing power slotted and later permadom. But of course the impression the OP said, players saying they're weak, will last a bit I guess, I still rarely see one ingame (well I rarely see WSs either but the dedicated players weren't asking for buffs like the PB ones so WS lovers mostly seemed pleased with their toons, I saw some farm in i10/i11 and they were good at that already).
I would dare say most AT's feel underperforming at lower levels. And personally? Leveling my PB was a very smooth ride, and that was before i21. My only conclusion is that players didn't understand them. Besides controllers/dominators/masterminds, I definitely wouldn't say Kheldians are "simplistic" at all. They take a major amount of planning, timing, and work. Which is also why they feel really rewarding to play.
But this is all just my opinion, of course. ![]() |
Off Topic: Your avatar is awesome. Did you make it?
Speak for yourself.
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
We should probably "sticky" this thread, this question is posted at least twice a week
To the original poster, I don't really have a clear answer. They're not as bad as their rap, and do solo relatively well at high level, but they're a pain to level and definitely still below par regarding what most other ATs can offer to a team. To make things worse, general perception counts as much as actual live performance, and Peacebringers' reputation has been in the gutter ever since they went live back in pre-history.
A little buff to lightform and innerlight won't change most players' minds, and you'll still come across "ITF speed run forming, no stalkers or PBs, please!" being broadcasted every night. While you can just say to yourself, "these guys are idiots and I'm better off not teaming with them anyway!", the fact remains that they're still having fun and you're left alone playing by yourself. Numbers alone don't warrant rolling a PB under these conditions.
Their concept, however, is awesome, playing the avatar of a benevolent cosmic entity with access to a unique storyline, and that alone should be reason enough to try a PB
Before Light Form was made perma I played by Peacebringer (human form) 1 to 50 as my main and completely IO'd her out. Anyone that says playing PB's is bad is either retarded or only likes playing easy to use characters such as Dominators. I've been told a couple times that I have the best Peacebringer build people have seen. That makes me feel good considering how many people have negative feelings towards Peacebringers. They are effective in any team AND with Cosmic Balance you are always receiving a buff of some kind to make you even better.
If you know how to play a Blaster or Scrapper then you can play a Beastbringer. My PB has perma Light Form, Inner Light, and Restore Essence, and is a complete monster. She had perma RS before the change so that made it nice having capped HP, but the changes just made PBs even more powerful than they already are. As for KB, I love it and have always loved it. Pop some +rech procs in your powers and you could potential cap your recharge without any buffs. I love Warshades too, played two of them human form only, but ended up deleted each one post-40. You can't compare them at all, but if I were to compare them I would roll a Peacebringer each and every time. That being said I still think Eclipse is the best tier 9 power on the game and has been for a long long time, but the LF timer shorten puts it on par if not ahead of even the mighty Eclipse now. |
But yeah like everyone already said.. usually its people from the real oldschool that hated pb and dont want to change their opinion of them.. or people from the new school.. who just dont care to understand.. they just dont like pbs..
but i pvp with my pb and i can honestly say its my fav toon to play.. and i do have mind/fire dom and psi blaster..
why i like it is becuase its a great mixture like the people say..
great combo of blaster/scrapper.. honestly you wont have blaster or scrapper dmg.. but with sets, incarnates, and reds that doesnt matter..
My survivability is as good as any scrapper out there. i built mine as a regen/resistance type.. i have three heals in human form.. 1600 hp without dull pain 2300 with. outside of inner light my dmg is sitting at 30% and in pvp my light form is down 20 - 25s..
If you like scrappers and blasters and pve i would say build for hp and recharge.. get three fav blast and radiant strike.. and go blapping..
if you pvp build for hp and recharge.. get the 3 single target range, Incandesant strike, and go blapping
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
Add in jump pool speed pool, leadership, and fighting and theres ya build.
Oh also pbs is the only thing in the game i know off that can slot out up to 3 dmg procs in each attack.. (if theres any others my apalogise).. so on my toon in gleaming bolt alone i can push out 200+ dmg on a power that reachrge in 1/2 a sec..
So yeah do it up.. sorry for the fast incorherant talking im headed out the door.. lol but yea do it up
Freedom:
Iron-Blade 50kat/invul Iron Ascension 50trifpb Cinder Reborn 50fire/kin Zaha'doom 50triws Cindered Stones 50fire/ston ColdFusion 35 ice/rad Iron Ash 50 Fir/WP
Iron Wind km/regen Iron Static elec/reg Psy Entity 50 psy/dev Iron-Assassin 50 nin/nin
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
Edit: The mixed Warshade/Peacebringer symbol is a new one where I simply cut out half of the full PB icon and stuck it into the opposite side of the WS one. Then I used, get ready... PowerPoint to create transparency! Was so much simpler than I imagined it to be.
So yes, I did make it
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Geez, didn't mean to strike a soft spot. Allow me to fix it for you;
"for the first time in my experience PB's aren't laughable."
My normal mission is at x8 +2 difficulty, which took a lot of effort before the patch with my PB. |
![Cool](images/smilies/cool.gif)
Templar of Judgement Level 50+++ Triform Warshade - Server Freedom
And you thought eight Kheldians were awesome...
Geez, didn't mean to strike a soft spot. Allow me to fix it for you;
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
late game:
WS mesh better with the incarnate and inventions system due to recharge bonuses. Though I would argue that you could be just as effective on a PB with +dmg and +res bonuses, since PB really don't need to stack recharge.
mid game:
they are pretty much the same.
early game:
PBs are better but doesn't really matter since Nova form is identical and most players use that while lvling.
really comes down to if you play aggressively or defensively. WS peak higher because of the foe requirement but do so at great risk of death. PBs are simply consistent and self-reliant.
I see you didn't go back and edit the original post, but I suppose it's a start.
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![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
late game:
WS mesh better with the incarnate and inventions system due to recharge bonuses. Though I would argue that you could be just as effective on a PB with +dmg and +res bonuses, since PB really don't need to stack recharge. mid game: they are pretty much the same. early game: PBs are better but doesn't really matter since Nova form is identical and most players use that while lvling. really comes down to if you play aggressively or defensively. WS peak higher because of the foe requirement but do so at great risk of death. PBs are simply consistent and self-reliant. |
WS's can out do PB's if they have enough enemies to siphon power from.
If I had to choose from either Archetype to fight a boss;
PB>WS.
Anything else?
WS>PB
Templar of Judgement Level 50+++ Triform Warshade - Server Freedom
And you thought eight Kheldians were awesome...
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
When ever I mention PBs in game around 5 people instantly tell me to avoid and instead roll a WS because apparently they're PBs except better. Did the PB buffs fix anything at all? Or am I just going to end up with a lame WS?