Grey Pilgrim

They're... relevant because they explain what Peacebringers need adjusted to get in line with Warshades?

People don't know how to fix them? How so? Pretty much every thread I have seen on the subject cite similar things: recharge on Photon Seekers for the damage they do, Pulsar only a guaranteed Mag 2 stun, Light Form issues, build up not lasting long enough, etc. Suggestions from people that know Peacebringers are often quite similar. The problem is more that NOTHING is done about the issues everyone acknowledges for the AT.

Exactly who is doing this? Did you miss MY BOLDED AND CAPS LOCKED STATEMENT THAT PEACEBRINGERS NEED IMPROVEMENTS TO GET IN LINE WITH WARSHADES AND OTHER ATS IN MY PREVIOUS POST? I see no one suggesting the things in number 1 or 2. Peacebringers need adjustment. However, the problem is your 3, where you suggest that Peacebringers cause buyers remorse. Again, Peacebringers are not so weak that they can't play decently in the game. You may not enjoy them, but that does not mean they are not viable

This whole post clearly misreads everything I and others have clarified on the subject. You can't seem to distinguish between "plays okay but needs some adjustments to be closer to other ATs" and "this AT has powers all over and is in serious need of improvement."

Okay, this doesn't make much sense. We can't control what the developers do, and I know BAB and Castle at least had some ideas for the AT that they couldn't follow through on because of time constraints. Nothing being done is an issue, but it's not necessarily because no one acknowledges the issue.

You can get get dev attention by posting about it, and that's about it. Even then, there are no guarantees. I and others posted until we were blue in the face about how Fiery Aura needed some tweaking still after I11, and nothing happened. Castle suddenly posted in a Shields thread in the Scrapper forums that mentioned the issue, and BAM! suddenly adjustments were made in time for GR. I don't know what triggered it for him, or even if it was that thread. It might have been on his to-do list and he finally had time for it, I dunno.

But not playing an AT that I like? Heck no. Devices needs help, but it doesn't mean I'm letting my Archery/Devices Blaster sit, same for my Peacebringer. I wish I could like the mechanics of Warshades, but I just can't, and I like Peacebringers. So I have my alpha to rare levels on my Peacebringer, and I'll work him into the next four whenever I can... darn grindy nature of the trials is the only thing holding me back there.

Oh, and last but not least:

I am telling it how it is, by the way. Peacebringers need some tweaks but are plenty fun to play. I'm calling you out for not calling it how it is, though.

*added* I do apologize for the caps and bold, and sounding a little cranky, but I do hate having to repeat myself... especially when I'm grading through a huge stack of papers.

Yes, I have been talking about relative performance as well. One of my main points was that not every set in the game can be the "most uber" and that some sets are going to be a little weaker than others. That's okay, as long as they offer a degree of uniqueness or options that are different from other sets. The only other option with all this is to make all sets the same... which may or may not be possible, and doing this would also make the game much more bland.

The "relative" in "relative performance" is an important word to be sure of with your meaning. When you say people want to be as strong as their friends, you (since you're falling into this with your post) and others want to be able to stomp on all other powersets, or seen as the most uber. Your "relative" performance is a bar set far higher than the developers necessarily think things have to aim for, like soloing at +4 x8. Maybe that's not quite where your bar is, but your bar is set higher than you may be accounting for.

Why can I say that? Because the game is still technically set up for SOs, and where 3 minions=a hero or villain. Most can get beyond that, and any decent Peacebringer can (I was beyond that before the I11 changes on my Peacebringer, so I'm even farther now). People tend to put their "relative performance" significantly higher than that, though, and that is part of the perception problem. And that's not really an opinion problem on my part, because nowhere have the devs implied that you have to solo on +4 x8, or even +2 x6. It's merely an option you can play at if YOU choose.

There is a lot of room for opinion on what needs buffs, and of course who knows what the devs are thinking (if anything) about Kheldians, Peacebringers in particular. But I'll make this point, and break a lot of internet etiquette to do it, just so I am clear. PEACEBRINGERS DO NEED BUFFS AND ADJUSTMENTS TO THEIR POWERS TO PUT THEM IN LINE WITH WARSHADES AND OTHER ATS. I am not saying they don't. However, this is not in line with saying they suck or something like that, as you continue to state. You can tank for your team, you can blast for them, you can even scrap for them if you want, or do all of that solo. We're not at some seriously weakened point where we have a damage debuff solo, or a weaker damage mod, etc., like we used to.

If someone likes the idea of Peacebringer powers and the powerset, they can play the game well with them. Just because people see the need for some adjustments to Peacebringers does not mean you can't play them well at this point. In short:

STOP RAINING ON PEOPLE'S PARADES BECAUSE YOU SEE THE NEED FOR SOME ADJUSTMENTS TO PEACEBRINGERS.

I seriously wish the developers would do something about Peacebringers, as I am rather tired of them sitting in a spot where they do need some fixing. But I'm equally sick of players trying to get down on another player's choice for characters or powersets, just because they're a little weaker than some others. Sheesh, it's a game. Let them go have fun with if if they want: it is possible with a Peacebringer.

If you don't do IO sets, you're never going to get close to a high end build like you are noting here. They use IO sets to squeeze the most from those powersets, and IOs really do help out Kheldians to build better, as they are slot starved and love lots of recharge.

Do you HAVE to use IO sets? No, you can do fine without them, if you so choose. Plasma's guide in the guide section will still help you out here, if you want. And you can make a decent tri-form Peacebringer with just general IOs or SOs. Just realize you're not going to be up there with an IO build... those bonuses really do add up a lot to improve a build.

Tri-form Peacebringers are pretty fun. You can adapt for your team (I tank, blast, or scrap for my team, depending on what they need at the time... even better, you can do this in the middle of a battle) and do a lot of different things. I was on an ITF recently with mine, and it was great to mow down a huge swath of Cimerorans with a couple blasts from Nova, then switch over to scrapping for taking down a Minotaur or something. Good times.

One note on tri-forming. As you level up, don't spread your slots too much between the forms. Focus on one, get it slotted up well, then move on. Plasma's guide notes this, and it helped me a lot when leveling. I focused on Nova first, then Dwarf, then human (though some key human powers like the heals, build up, etc. got some attention as I worked on the other forms). If you don't focus, your slots get too spread out, and you can't do any one thing particularly well. Going Nova, Dwarf, Human works well, since blasting makes things a lot easier in the early levels: the Blaster AT kind of has it easier at those levels than most other ATs, I would say. Nova rather mimics that.

... Where did I say that Peacebringers outperform Warshades, exactly? Nowhere. I said Peacebringers don't suck where they currently stand, which is not equivalent to all the stuff you posted about something... I did not say.

Yes, Peacebringers do have performance issues... it's not like I don't argue for those buffs everywhere. I did in this thread, too. I am going to take umbrage with anyone saying they suck or can't get the job done, though. Because there aren't any sets or ATs in this game that can't solo or add to the team anymore. Heck, Devices needs more help than Peacebringers do, I would say.

Here, you're running into a perception issue for developers and players with balance. The game and its powersets aren't designed so everyone can handle the old Invincible levels, or the new +4 x8. You're not going to get any traction from a developer in saying "X Powerset or AT needs buffing, because it can't solo at +4 x8." The game isn't designed with those expectations in mind. Difficulties were made more customizable for players to go where they felt comfortable, and also (if we're honest) to shut up that stupid farmer spam we'd get if you were running around in PI.

However, you can make an easy and clear cut case for Peacebringers needing a buff by comparing them to how well other powersets perform, and you can do so just by looking at the numbers, as you said. Smiling Joe's analysis of the two Kheldian sets made that even clearer to everyone (and by the way, I did read that thread... I commented in it multiple times, too, to clarify what the tables meant).

For whatever reason, Peacebringers have been allowed to languish, even though we all made suggestions for improving them (the same ones that keep getting stated since the last round of "major" adjustments in I11) back when Castle made some adjustments to them. It's quite on par with how silly Burn and other issues were for Fiery Aura all those years, and I was somewhat annoyed it took a whole discussion about Shields on the Scrapper forum to (apparently) get Castle to make a change to Fiery Aura, even though nothing was said there about Fiery Aura that hadn't been said for years.

So how does all that jive with me saying Peacebringers don't suck? Because if we're honest, we can see that Peacebringers can solo and do fun stuff for their team. The problem is that they're too far behind other powersets (it's okay for powersets to be at different levels: we don't want them all to be the same, but Peacebringers are clearly too far down from other sets). So yes, you can argue for a buff to Peacebringers. But sucking? Not so much. Unless you expect every powerset in the game to be at the level of Shields that is heavily IO'd, etc., but then the problem is more your perception, more than the powerset itself.

More than a little work? I think you and I have significantly different definitions of "a little work." Peacebringers no longer have a negative damage power when solo, enemies that do large and unresistible damage, or have an inherent that doesn't help them out in forms.

Anything you posted there, or I did in the other post, is not a lot of work. Making Pulsar a guaranteed Mag 3 is not a huge change, but a helpful one. Same for the recharge rate on Photon Seekers. Now, I'm sure the tech to do a more major change to Build up (rather than just lengthening its duration) might take more dev time, but as far as PB performance goes, that's a small thing. Same thing for the inherent not working while solo.

So again, it's a bunch of little things that would add up to make Peacebringers better. But their being small issues (and potentially labor intensive on a development end) are probably why they are continually ignored by the devs. But they're also why saying Peacebringers need a lot of work is disingenuous. It implies that they're just not able to play the game well, which isn't true. Things used to be much more difficult and for no good reason.

Now, there are smaller issues--whose continued existence don't make sense, I agree--but they are smaller issues. There aren't any powersets or ATs out there anymore that are doing badly to any extreme (hence my calling people out on the hyperbole). Just a lot of small things that I sure as heck hope get looked at sooner rather than later.

Wow... not sure how he is ever going to get this series done if he still hasn't gotten to that. I assumed that threat was going to pop out in the second book at least. I didn't care for the style or feel of the world, so I gave up after Book 1... but that vignette at the start of Book 1 certainly made me think the whole series was going to go in a very different direction.

Your strategies for tanking AVs in any encounter are going to be pretty much the same as for any other tank. Fiery Aura isn't as defensive, of course, but it is a tank set: it will get the job done. Any recommendations you see on the Tank forums will hold true no matter your primary: your primary simply changes how you need to get to that survivability (Statesman TF comes to mind in particular for this)

Battle Maiden isn't an issue on Apex for Fire Tanks. You really can't be standing toe to toe with her with how it works, so I honestly haven't taken many melee hits from her. She and her minions can hit pretty hard, but it's not really any more of an issue than fighting a bunch of Romans on the ITF or something. Pick up Tough and round out your defenses if you can, as it helps. Pick up as much recharge as you can, as Healing Flames getting up sooner helps out.

I'm also a huge fan of the Cardiac Alpha for Fiery Aura. Without dipping into expensive IOs, you can get your S/L resists into the 76% range, which is a big boost over the high 60s. If you add Barrier on top of that from the new Cardiac boost, that's even better.

But yes, any of the AVs on the trials can do a number on you as a Tank (it doesn't matter what tank you are). Any level shifts you can get will help, but also remember that this is meant to be team content. If you're running around solo on Lambda, for instance, and trying to take down crates on your own, you are going to have issues from those mobs too. Before the new level shifts, they're +3 or +4 to you, and they have a lot of exotic damage: Psi, Energy, etc. The best trial runs I have been on, people stick together and it helps a lot more. These really aren't like the ITF or LGTF where you should be running around solo for too much. YOu can do it, it's just not the best idea for you (and you're not tanking for your team much on your own, either).

Yeah, there are different approaches for your defenses. I can understand people that go the all S/L route, but I'm kind of the opposite of you: I hate having performance all over the place. My defensive build with decent defenses to pretty much all damage out there is a lot more fun with mobs in the +40 game. Running with a S/L build was not a whole lot of fun when fighting Carnies, personally.

If anything, that's one of the great things about Fiery Aura, you can make it pretty well rounded against almost all encounters out there, whereas Invuln (which is much, much better against S/L damage) is going to be more nervous against exotic damage types.

It's listed in the power info for Healing Flames, actually. I don't really talk about it much beyond that, as toxic damage is fairly rare in game, and I'd still handle it like other types of damage: use healing flames after you take some damage. Using it pre-emptively only gets you about 20% or so resistance to the toxic damage, so you're better off using it for the heal first off.

Don't get me wrong, the resist boost is nice when you need it: it's just more helpful to get something from the heal first. I generally take the same approach with Dull Pain (except on a Regen Scrapper, since they don't have as many resists). On the Apex TF, for instance, I usually use an orange inspiration before taking all the damage from the Hydra, then heal when my health inevitably goes down... it takes longer then before I need another heal (if ever before the pylon is destroyed).

Nice hyperbole. No ATs in CoH suck. They all play differently and people will have their preferences, but none of them suck. I dislike every Defender and MM combo I have tried, but I'm not going to go and say they suck because of it.

Peacebringers have some wonky powers that need tweaking, sure. But they can do a great job all the same and are fun to play. If I was less honest, I would let people whinge about them on the boards and hope that gets them the dev attention they deserve, but I can't. People paint it overly bleak and it annoys the heck out of me.

Antares, some sections of the boards get quieter depending on what's going on. I know the comic culture section is a lot quieter since new forum rules were put in. Kheldians are a smaller niche and people chatter about them a little, but these have never been hot part of the boards. Most Kheld players have said what needs to be said about the tweaks they need and how to play them, so I know I don't post here as much as I used to.

Have fun with your Peacebringer... I'd probably recommend tri-form, though you can make all human work: I know I've actually been playing my tri-former like that on teams lately, just for fun. Go with what floats your boat and make sure you have a good overall build (pretty much what I say for every AT, heh).

Well, the reward system seems wonky, but do keep in mind that it is random. I just led a Lambda on Wednesday night on my Fire/Fire Tanker, it went quite well and fast, and I earned a Rare. *shrugs* Random is random.

I may use threads for more xp again, but I have already done so and would rather make sure I have all the commons I need for at least a rare with Lore before spending more of them. Did 2 lambdas and one BAF last night, which got me enough to get Destiny to Rare levels.

I'm pretty much spending all my Astral merits now, but Baronyx's post today is reminding me that doing so may not be the best thing at this point. Oh well, I'll stockpile a few later: I probably won't have enough for whatever we can buy with them no matter what I do.

Blech, BAF IXP is pretty crummy, though. Our BAF run last night had Nightstar and Siege rez multiple times with many defeats of their adds, and I think I made all of 16% on Destiny. Pathetic. A run of Lambda that I crashed on with my Controller yielded 44% on Interface. Less xp needed for that, I know, but that was a lot more than I usually got on BAF for Judgement.

That's par for the course for Jack Emmert and Cryptic, actually. You can see that kind of thing all over in their games. They did not design this game with long term game development or customization in mind.

You can't entirely fault them for that, of course. It's a common problem with a lot of things. My department at my college has a textbook we put out, and it is in need of major revision. Part of why it is so hard to revise and revamp is because it's too integrated: each chapter refers to many other sections of the book, so any change to one part of the book requires finding and revising those parts.

We're going to rewrite it so it doesn't do that so much and each chapter can stand on its own. Overall design for any more complex system is always tricky. Still, there's a lot to be said for designers that think about that stuff ahead of time.

I do hope they change this, but you should be picking up typed defense when you're building for positional, so it isn't completely lost. If you went Barrier with Destiny, it'll also add on top of that (this is what I am doing on my Fire/Fire).

Not as good as it buffing all types, of course, but I'll take what I can get. The Seer boss will help with your MoLambda badge too, since Marauder's Tier 9, etc., doesn't resist Psi as much (if at all). Not sure how the Seers don't do more damage... with other mobs, though... they sure rip up my tanks pretty well.

If the new Incarnate stuff weren't locked into two trials, and so much XP needed for them... I might have spread out to my Macer for them by now. As it is, I'm still working on Lore for my Fire/Fire, and he needs some more commons to get up to the Rare level with Destiny.

But... soon (as in months, hopefully) my Macer will be at the same spot! Just in time to be behind for the new round of trials. Hehe. Still, it'll be fun to knock some more Warworks around.