Ever notice how newer maps are so linear?

This is something that seems to have been bothering me for a long time, but I've never been able to put into words. But it struck me today - almost all instance maps that we've gotten since Launch have been either linear, or at most following a tree structure. And I don't mean just Praetorian maps or Arachnos bases. Maps as old as the Rularuu/Troll tunnels are almost always linear or tree-like. Let me explain.

A linear map is one which consists of a sequence of a straight link of room -> corridor -> next room -> next corridor with no intersections, or no meaningful ones. Such instances will sometimes give you a T intersection where right is the correct way, but left is an IMMEDIATE dead end 20 feet in.

A tree structure map is a map which consists of branching paths which never intersect down the line. Your standard issue maze is a tree structure like that. In these instances, turning a wrong corner even once eventually leads to a dead end, requiring you to backtrack to the wrong corner and make the right choice.

Now compare those to the oldest of our instances. And I don't even mean Oranbega or the Blue Caves. I'm talking something as simple as offices, warehouses and blue labs. These are often filled with loops and mini-loops inside those loops. A common motiff in warehouse maps is a cross intersection which leads to three diverging paths which go their own ways, but eventually converge in another cross intersection down the line. A common sewer motif is a T intersection where both directions lead to large rooms, which then exit into tunnels which again re-merge into another T intersection. A common office motiff is coming out of a lift room and facing a T intersection going left or going straight. Both paths go through a large room and then converge into another T intersection leading to the exit lifts.

This, to my eyes at least, makes the instances a lot more interesting. When you're on an instance known to have paths loop back into each other, you're always on the lookout for which direction could lead into a loop back into which path. It encourages spacial orientation above and beyond just the room or corridor you're currently in.

This has been absent from almost every map made practically since I1. Troll/Rularuu tunnels almost never loop, and when they do, it's usually IMMEDIATE, ship maps can't really loop on themselves, Arachnos bases rarely even diverge, Praetorian labs are almost all linear from start to finish and Praetorian tunnels rarely split your path for more than a few dozen feet.

And, honestly, I have to wonder why that change happened. Are loops in maps now considered a bad thing? Are we shooting for much, much simpler maps that require less exploration? What's going on with instance design to produce this? Because, frankly, linear and tree structure maps are less interesting to me than grid style maps, and by a fair bit, because they basically consist of "hug the left wall and don't think about it."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

So non-linear maps, no second person tip intros and no io's and the game would be perfect? You're getting close devs

Frankly, I'd prefer more realistic and/or open maps. Seriously, have you EVER seen an office laid out like most of the "office maps?" And any warehouse set up like most of our warehouses - oy.

Give me an office map with cublcles, offices and meeting rooms. The "path" may not show up on the map - you've got to get around these cubicles. Or give me a good building under construction (think of getting to the roof in "No Mercy" in Left4Dead.) The "map" might be open, or have visible sections for, say, the elevators, some walls and supports - but the map itself isn't quite that straightforward, thanks to pallets of cement, construction equipment and the like.

See my Guides and Tutorials

While I have beef with the maps that have been put in place over the last few years, I wouldn't put my troubles in those terms.

My problem is that everything must be reusable now. Back in the day, the devs worked their ***** off creating maps like the ones used in the Eden, Sewer, and hero respec trials. The result was something completely unique that made those encounters feel "epic". Or at least unique.

Now everything is reused and recycled. The biggest end game encounters are set in chunks of map that we've seen elseware (the warehouse in Lambda was new, but it's not much to write home about and it was also put elseware in the same issue.)

Setting goes along way in setting the tone of an encounter, I wish the devs would realize this and go back to the days of old when designing some of the new trials.

Surely the issues here are those of NPC pathing and placement? There's very few video games I've played that have 'realistic' layouts as such....I'm presuming the design of these areas are to allow groups to interact in them as well as to allow for mob movement.

I'm no expert, nor am I claiming this is the answer, but that's just a speculation.



S.

For once, I hoped you'd start a thread with a linear paragraph >_>

I actually like the linear maps. Very little annoys me as much as when I'm playing a brute and have to spend a minute walking through branching corridors and loops just to find the next spawn point (the classic caves, particularly, are horrible about this), or I have to backtrack an entire floor to get to more enemies.

Edit: Which isn't to say that I don't think maps should split at all, but generally, I think they should be designed in a way where you're unlikely to go for three minutes without seeing enemies. If I wanted to run through a nearly-empty office building, I can do that at work.

I'm betting MA had something to do with this as far as having maps with definitive beginnings, middles, and ends.

I like linear maps.

As someone who has driven a forklift in a warehouse in real life, I occasionally amuse myself imagining the horror of working in a CoX warehouse.

"Yeah, go stick that in C tier on shelf 141 at the OPPOSITE end of the building which is U-shaped so it's even further away after going up and down a few ramps."

I know several people who used to play, or tried the game for a while. The most frequent complaint from all of them: the maps. They don't all have the same complaints, but each of them had some issue with the maps. Some thought the maps weren't realistic/immersive enough. Others felt that they were just all too similar and once you notice the pattern, you know which way to go all the time when you see a particular map. A few have mentioned the idiotic elevator system. And then, of course, there were a few complaints about the blue cave layer-cake room.

Personally, I don't mind the maps too much. It would be nice if it didn't look like the same interior designer furnished every single office building, but none of these issues is a real deal-breaker for me.

The Warehouse maps should look similar small Casino maps though made larger. That would be cool. Adding in an office room or 2, stairs to a small room and some catwalks.

Office buildings should be fairly linear, each floor being a similar layout to the others on the map to look like it was built by the same company. The elevators should not be in multiple areas, maybe 1 that accesses floors 1-4 and one that accesses 5-10... but the Boss spawns should be random. The elevators give the pop up asking which floor.

At this moment, I've just quick scanned through the thread, so I may have missed some points...

I do agree w/Sam about the linear (and head-scratching layout) nature of the maps. But then again, what video game doesn't use a linear path, in essence, for indoor/underground areas?

But there is a little spark that the map tech is getting a little better. If anyone has had a chance to go through the new Preatorian Warehouse maps that came w/I20, you'd see. In one of the maps, there is a square office w/a 4 cubicle like set-up and accessible by two doors that swing in. Also in this map is a side break room with a single door access. When the GF & I were running a mission for a newer Prea Character I rolled recently in this map, those changes surprised me and impressed me as well. I would so love seeing little tweaks like this ported over to the older maps and the like.

I'll have to look and see if they've been added into the AE maps. It's not a OMG kind of thing, but, I think, it might be a step in the right direction.

Thank you for the time...

@Travlr (Main) / @Tymers Realm (Test)