FlyingCodeMonkey

Evening of 12/29 after-Hami UGT:

1. No. We started the timer too quickly and had trouble positioning the EWWs.
2. Yes.
3. Apparently not. I thought it was, but Bright reported no Avatar Assassin badge.
4. Fire/Fire Dominator, all ranged controls/damage with one minor debuff.
5. Preservation Specialist, Master of Underground, Very Rare drop.
6. Dunno, 90 minutes maybe?
7. One death, my own stupid fault even.

We've begged for it since the game was young. Isn't it time we were able to set both Hasten and our mez-protection clicks (or what have you) to fire on Auto?

For such a conceptually small thing, it certainly is a nuisance, and easily within the long-overdue quality-of-life category. I don't know how many hundreds of times it's been requested in the last several years, but here's one more plea.

Speaking only for myself, I have few reservations about bringing an unshifted character to most of the trials, because on the balance I also frequently bring my 50+3s. Sometimes I help carry the league, sometimes the league carries me. It's all in the balance.

I take the same approach to the MSR. Some weeks, I bring an incarnate 50 to help the raid go smoothly. Other weeks, I bring a 30ish looking for XPs.

That's with all the obvious caveats: as long as there are enough 50s/shifts/clarions/etc for the trial to go smoothly. A given league is affected by the mix of level shifts and incarnate buffs in addition to the archetypes present. I'm not inclined to be a burden, but I do feel that I (along with many others) have invested enough time and energy to lean on the indulgence of an otherwise-capable league once in a while. So, I certainly don't mind seeing some unshifted folks in the trial as long as our chances of success are still very good.

Ukase has probably the most personal principle of anyone I've seen in that regard. Me, I'm a bit roguish by comparison.

Lib's been fairly busy these days, actually. In general, I'm seeing more people wandering around, especially in Atlas, than I've seen in quite a while. Liberty seems more like a suburb than the boonies, now.

I can't really attest to the SG broadcasters, but various things that occur to me ... much teaming these days, whether trials/TFs/tips/raids/missions, is done through popular global channels. Supergroups don't tend to fulfill that role anymore, and the few that are still fairly active tend to have their own global channels for coordination, as well.

Since the advent of incarnates and trials/TFs designed for those characters, quite a lot of activity takes place at the 50+ range now. Some evenings, fully half of the non-hidden people are playing 50s. Also, some of the bigger AE exploits have been tweaked, so there's a lot less AE farm chatter.

Finally, I think (?) the latest Star Wars MMO just went live, so I'd assume a lot of folks are checking out that game, as well.

Worst case, join the LB global channel, if you like scum and villainy.

I'll begin by acknowledging that there is some theoretical merit to the Kick Vote feature for leagues, so despite my misgivings I wouldn't suggest getting rid of it.

However, as a feature it is subject to abuse. Case in point, last week's Underground Trial on Liberty wherein one or more persons thought it would be funny to keep starting kick votes on another person, not only at the worst possible times (Extinction War Walker fight), but over and over again. It was obnoxious, annoying, and anonymous. The Kick Vote feature needs some restriction(s) on its usage, whether it be ...

1. A limit on how frequently any one person can start a Kick Vote,
2. A limit on how frequently any one person may be the target of a Kick Vote,
3. A simple cool-down timer on its use, etc.

I'm aware that the system could theoretically be gamed by a few co-conspirators, so perhaps that isn't enough. Maybe only team leaders or the league leader can begin votes. Maybe the league leader's version of the kick dialog includes the identity of whomever initiated the vote. In any case, I can attest that the system we have now may already be abused and the perpetrator(s) are already effectively immune, so it's definitely in need of improvement. Repeatedly starting kick votes on someone during tense moments of a difficult trial is essentially griefing the league.

Ditto that. I hardly ever even build a Judgement or Interface until after Destiny and Lore are slotted to T3. Level shifts are highest priority.

As far as when and how to join incarnate-supportive stuff, there's a lot of luck to it, honestly. There are only a few regular, predictable trial runs. Beyond that, there's usually a decent amount of pop-up trial activity afternoons, evenings, and especially weekends. Finding it is mostly a matter of popping into RWZ to see if a group is gathering, and/or watching the global channels.

It's easier if you're a person who is familiar with the trials and willing to lead them, because sometimes there's a lot of folks ready to form up around a leader. Not everyone enjoys the leader role though, and some days are simply quiet. Either way, it's just a matter of time.

As a very broad statement, you may wish to avoid Underground, TPN, and MoMayhem until you have at least the Alpha level shift. Those trials have some powerful opposition that can trivially flatten an unshifted character. However, sometimes you luck into a strong league of shifted characters who don't mind bringing along a few folks hoping for good IXP. Trials like UGT and Mayhem will punish a league with too many unshifted characters, though.

I see Bright's already mentioned it, but yeah ... you may also want to collect

7. Number of personal deaths during the trial.

Apparently it's been suggested that this quantity figures into your personal success metric. For me from the 12/23 UGT, quite improbably, this number is ...

7. Zero.

I dunno why I enjoy leading Green. I just do.

Looking forward to the next. In the meantime, questions and observations:

In general, what is the minimum AB/PB needed on the nucleus taunter to survive that task? I get the sense that it's in the range of four or five stacked, but I've never known for sure.

It was really, really nice having the mix of control and damage in the green teams. Without the damage ATs, we simply can't overwhelm healing on the first green mito.

There was a (very) slight coordination problem following one of the mito blooms in that the blue team happened to start on the far side of hami from the green team. So while we were taking out the first couple of greens, they weren't able to finish off the first blue for some time because the greens on that side kept healing it.

Depending on who shows up, and assuming we have mez protection from blue terrorize effects, I sometimes wonder if it might not be effective to start with both control and range damage on greens, annihilate them quickly, then move to blues. We ended up doing that anyway on the second bloom. Down side, the yellows team gets bored because their job was over a while ago.

Maybe nothing to worry too much about, I dunno. In the past I've been present for the opposite problem, too: not enough damage to overwhelm the first green mito, so we sat there distracting it until the blue team finished their task and was available to assist us.

As a very random aside, your UI is arranged incredibly differently from mine (even allowing for raid considerations), and that's fascinating to me for inexplicable reasons.

See ya at the next,
FCM

First, the stuff you requested. This was from our friday 12/23 run:

1. Yes, 60 threads.
2. No, bomb badge failed.
3. No, I think, because we didn't get Avatar Assassin.
4. Earth/Rad Controller (strictly ranged control/debuff, with many pseudo-pet-based controls, plus Void Judgement)
5. Rare.
6. No idea, little faster than usual because we failed the bomb badge, and no.

I think there were two VRs reported from that run? Three, maybe?

Second, for commentary purposes, I have had luck of probably every possible description while running trials. Last week, one of my Masterminds had three VR drops from various trials over the course of a couple of days (!!). Other times, I've had melee characters in the thick of every fight who ended up buying their rare bits with EMs, because the RNG was so stingy. I've gotten commons from various trials that we owned as thoroughly as is possible, and a VR from the UGT that included what I think was our slowest bomb run ever, the one where we were starting to get concerned about 10 Threads for lack of participation by everyone not on the bomb team.

While I agree with the prevailing belief that the reward roll is adjusted somewhat by (1) how well the league does overall and (2) how well the player does individually, over time it has always seemed to work out for my guys per probability. That same Mastermind with the incredible VR luck last week also had a miserable early incarnation, with hardly even a rare bit that he didn't buy with EMs. Of course, there are people who simply have consistently terrible luck. I wish there was some sort of streak breaker for trial drops, but I guess buying them with EMs sort of serves that purpose.

The one thing I haven't seen affect it at all is Archetype. I've had at least one VR drop on each of my incarnate Controllers, Blasters, Defenders, Tanks, Scrappers, Masterminds, Stalkers, Brutes, and Spiders. I do make a point of interacting with mobs to ensure the participation credit, but none of my Masterminds even have the attacks from their primary, and they do well on drops.

Anyway, good luck figuring it out. I'll keep providing the results when I remember.

I'd attend an all-MM trial for no other reason than to see it. I have three that I love (Rogue, Hero, Hero), but would probably bring either the Demons or the Robots.

Fortunately, I'm also on vacation through December, so I could actually attend. As two of them are Hero, though, they cannot gather in Cap.

There are plenty of mixed-faction tasks/trials at this point, so why target something like LRSF that's side-specific?

Heh, same thing happened to me today. But, logging again did fix it, as mentioned. I guess it was able to make whatever connection it requires, the second time.

Kind of annoying, and misleading, but not earth-shattering.

Understood. I never joined a UG when it was in beta, so didn't know if the devs had ever discussed/admitted exactly how the Extinction effects work.

The crosshair reticle is a weird and somewhat unreliable thing, incidentally. In one of the fairly recent runs, Bright was helping tank an EWW with her Peacebringer. More than once I, on a melee character, saw the crosshair appear beneath her feet, but it was never visible on her side. Her PB isn't a super-speed character to begin with, much less in Dwarf form, so it's not like it was obscured by other shiny effects ... it simply didn't appear on her screen. She's never seen the gigantic "Will of the Earth" swirly from the Avatar, either.

Might be a difference in our graphics settings, but anyway, my expectation was that a targeted person gets both the crosshair and the "Targeted" status message at the same time as a backup, in case the FX aren't visible. I'm not 100% sure of that, but it seemed reasonable.

I also know that on different occasions, I've had the Targeted status, then: (1) leaped quickly away from the EWW and nothing else happened (much like Will of the Earth); (2) leaped away but not quite so quickly, then LFA killed me and a couple of other unfortunates who were nearby. In the latter case it could have been worse because I did get the effect away from the great majority of the league, but it did catch those few others whom I felt were killed unfairly.

The other thing I don't quite know is the precise sequence. Does the Walker choose its targets, then select an effect? Or is it the other way around? On those (fairly rare) occasions when I get "Targeted", I've never yet been paying quite close enough attention to remember if I'd seen a red message for the effect. I assume it chooses/warns targets first, then effect, but it is only an assumption.

That's why it bugs me having everyone crowd around the EWW with the tanks nearby. Even if it only ever selects taunters as targets, if the effect simply radiates from them rather than affecting only them, it explains how we get league wipes from LFA even when the EWW is facing away and taunted.

I do go on. But it's a fascinating (and dangerous) mechanic that I want to understand.

From the description, seems like almost exactly twice as many phases as will really be enjoyable. :^P

Hopefully they're taking that extra time to apply the lessons learned from Keyes: repeating the same action N times within a single trial (gather 30 temp powers, gather 30 more temp powers, gather another 30 temp powers) does not make it N times more fun.

Anyway, I never seem to have the right timing to check out new trials on beta. It's nice to know a little about this one before seeing it for the first time.

Glad to see plans for a regular UGT, and at least one of them (Sunday) that I should be able to attend consistently.

First Ward isn't my favorite choice of zone (my day-job badger toon tends not to be the one with which I trial at this point), but that's a minor thing. I like RWZ for having convenient amenities (i.e., refilling my inspiration tray and selling off stuff at the quartermaster), but I'll make my way to whichever zone is the gathering point.

Of the UGT runs I've attended in the last few weeks, we're definitely getting better overall. The only thing that still bothers me are the two lichen EWWs. It feels like we either power through these by sheer overwhelming force/luck, or else Lethal Force wipes the league a couple of times and we never recover ... no middle ground to speak of. It's an awkward fight, the EWWs having been so specifically designed to discourage the classic AV dogpile tactic.

I wish we could get the taunters away from the main group so the Extinction effects (particularly Lethal) don't hit us so hard, but that goal runs counter to trying to get them in a controllable location and, in the case of the final Walker, within range of the fewest possible regeneration lichens. But they will not be immobilized, and I don't think there's any spot in that room they can't approach. I sometimes wonder, if the taunt tanks were flying, would it get them far enough away from the main group to minimize Lethal Force exposure, but that would probably tend to randomize the EWWs facing, which would have its own set of problems.

Am I right in thinking that the Extinction effects are massively broad cones, oriented in whatever direction the EWWs are facing?

Pfft, never mind. Apparently even FORUM GAMES only take place during normal work hours, around here.

Isn't it enough that GM-conducted events only ever happen during the day? Must that same pattern hold even for something as minor as this? Geez.

If it's just a streak of really bad luck, then fair enough.

I've taken close to 20 characters through the Incarnate gauntlet (fortunately, I really enjoy BAF and usually have no problem with Lambda), unlocking and populating each slot up to T3, sometimes to T4. In general, I never continue attending trials in hopes of getting enough VR bits to slot everything up to T4. If I do get a purple bit ... great, but most of the time I'm satisfied with everything slotted up to rare.

Prior to a week ago, none of my guys have ever had any serious trouble getting enough rare bits to do so. This includes practically every AT. I've incarnated at least one Controller, Blaster, Tank, Mastermind, Dominator, Stalker, etc. Usually, each of them has accumulated just enough rare pieces to slot Destiny and Lore when those slots unlock (I usually finish Judgement and Interface afterward). A very few were fortunate enough to get more rare bits than I needed, but most were usually awarded just enough.

In the last week or two, I've taken a Cold Defender and an Electrical Tank through the usual BAF/Lambda routine with the regular players. Drops for them have been miserable: an endless parade of Uncommons and Commons. The latest one, the tank, has all five slots unlocked and in that time has received exactly one rare bit from the Well. Ugh.

Hence my question: were the drop tables changed?

If nothing has changed, and I'm just having bad luck lately, that's fine. If it HAS changed, then City devs, please be advised that getting twenty common/uncommon bits in a row is like a physical blow. Having to upgrade bits for multiple rares takes so many more runs and resources that it saps a huge amount of the fun.

I read a rumor a few weeks ago that there was talk of making reward for BAF/Lambda mostly common/uncommon, and skewing the Rare curve toward Keyes. I hope that was only a rumor, because if it was true it would be a incredibly bad decision.

Just bad luck? I hope so.

Thanks,
FCM

The repeated use of "required" in the next-to-last paragraph is awkward, and "He was dead before he hit the wall 50 meters behind him" is a little overbearing with the pronouns.

/grammar off

Otherwise, not at all bad. Not here to nit-pick. Also, my sentence fragments.

I dislike Keyes because it represents far too many objectives performed under constant, extreme, hostile environmental conditions.

Well, that and it takes ten full minutes to explain what to do, to those who are unfamiliar. With BAF and Lambda, a person can pretty much follow along. Not so much Keyes.

Anyway, if the death pulse hit for around 25% damage instead of about 50%, and it weren't necessary to collect THIRTY freaking temps, three per console, for numerous consoles, all the way up the three towers, while people are being scattered by the death pulse, where maybe half of them even understand the temp powers usage constraints, I'd be fine with the rest. That combination of vast number of objectives and constant wide-area mega-damage kills my interest.

BAF is very straightforward. Lambda mostly so. Keyes simply tried to combine TOO MANY different elements and hazard conditions in a single trial. While I appreciate a challenge for incarnated characters, Keyes is simply tedious.

Good sirs, I trust you would not be inconvenienced if I were to construct a device with which to step through time in order that I may purchase this item immediately.

[edit] Having done so, I've returned to amend my original remarks. Capital work, lads.

Add Liberty to that list.

I joined my first post-patch BAF this evening, and the lag was unbearable. It was much worse than the worst I've seen in any of the several dozen prior BAF runs.

As was just observed, none of the timers were similarly affected. We had 9CU and MK6 groups piling up because powers were firing so slowly, the rate of clearing them wasn't remotely keeping up with the rate of reinforcement spawns. The prisoner phase was miserable, but we managed it.

Best of all, when we dropped Siege with about 4% left on Nightstar, a group of 24 couldn't fire enough powers in the ten-second timer to finish her off, so we had to keep their health much closer together than normal to finish. Strong & Pretty will be incredibly difficult until the lag issue is resolved, for that and the reinforcement timer.

Sequestration rings are affected, too. At least once I saw the first and second warnings appear simultaneously on a guy.

I doubt anyone is still reading this thread, but just in case. At least this way I can feel like I posted feedback/comments somewhere relevant.

It's a good thing I (mostly) enjoy the new trials, because like so many of us I've seen the grounds of BAF and Lambda several dozen times now. I say "mostly" because the warehouse phase of Lambda gives me conniptions, at least until level shifts are slotted. Anyway, in summary I love the new stuff; the toys are cool, the animations are great, and while the process of getting them is grindy, it could certainly be worse. The trials strike a pretty good balance on difficulty; not perfect, but not bad, with some of the tougher objectives associated with the badges, which makes good sense. I have exactly two concerns:

First, the recharge on the Judgement nukes is insane. It makes no sense. These powers are better in practically every way than a conventional nuke in area, number of targets, and secondary effects. They don't drain all your endurance. They're generally awesome, and any 50 can get one. Yet they recharge in what, 90 seconds? By contrast, the Lore pets are pretty good but recharge in 15 minutes. Seriously, my Dismantler is available for five of every fifteen minutes, but my room-clearing nuke is up every second or third group? That's not reasonable in a world where any Scrap or Tank or Brute can carry one as well as having access to their entire usual range of powers. I love everything else about the Judgement nukes, but I should be seeing them about once per mission at most.

Second, the mixing of Incarnate powers with older content is not a good thing. In general, the new powers are generally great in the context of BAF and Lambda. Probably also in Apex and Tin since those are also Incarnate-themed, but ... not so much in ITF. The ITF was obviously, simply not designed for those power levels, for a group where (again) every Brute and Scrap is carrying his own Judgement nuke, Destiny epiphany, and so on.

Specifically, the game needs to establish more of a boundary between Incarnate tasks and non-Incarnate tasks. At a minimum, the TF dialog needs an option to disable Incarnate powers, or Incarnate powers above Alpha, or whatever (in the same way that you can already disable temp powers). If the entire team is composed of Incarnate-powered characters then honestly, it can be seriously fun to bring massive ruin to the Cimerorans. However, when only one or two of the team are so powered, it can be very obnoxious when they utterly dominate the action, having most of the fun, leaving the rest of the team for miscellaneous clean-up duty and ambush-catching.

A mixed Incarnate and non-Incarnate group can absolutely destroy the balance of damage and support archetypes that addicted me to this game in the first place. In the BAF it isn't a huge deal (though it bothers me a little that there's so much less need for kin boosts, force fields, fortitude, etc), but for ITF, LGTF, etc., it's a problem.

Think of it in the same way as the exemplar system. If a level 50 could remain level 50 in a Manticore or Numina TF while everyone else was around 40, the results would be silly. Nothing could threaten the 50, and the rest of the group would struggle to contribute. Therefore, higher-level characters are necessarily exemplared to an appropriate level. It's not a flawless approach, but in general it makes things more even. With Incarnates, we have the same situation. Perhaps entering an ITF "exemplars" away Incarnate powers, or Incarnate powers above Alpha, or at least the team leader is given the option.

Whichever. But ask yourselves, developer guys ... can a TF team really maintain any kind of healthy balance or mix of ATs when some of the team are 50 and others are operating at a much higher level? The answer is no, there really is no healthy balance without some kind of mechanical restraint to make things at least a little more even, so a conventionally-powered team isn't so frustrated by that Brute they invited, the one who has all his personal defenses plus a nuke that's much better than the Blaster's, regen debuff in all his attacks, fast regeneration from Rebirth, etc. etc.

Thanks,
FCM