Finduilas
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Posts
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Quote:Shatter also does knockdown; all the Mace attacks other than the three KD/KU attacks have a chance to stun, though it's a relatively low chance in the T1 and T2 attacks.Originally Posted by Largo
Well, Mace does a combination of Stuns and knockdowns. Whirling Mace and Clobber do the stunning. Crowd Control, and Jawbreaker do the knockdowns.)
Some other differences are that Mace's highest damaging attack (Clobber) does significantly more damage than Axe's highest damaging attack, (Cleave) though the Axe attack is a narrow cone and could conceivably hit more than one target.
The T8 and T9 attacks in the set are very similar, but the Axe attacks do slightly more damage than the Mace attacks. However, the T8 Mace attack's cone is twice as wide as the T8 Axe, and the T9 Mace attack can hit twice as many targets as the T9 Axe. (10 vs 5)
Yes, those were dark times.Quote:Another bit of history, War Mace attacks used to do knockback level knockdown. Which made it quite incompatable with some secondaries that rely on melee proximity for defense, tohit,..ie Invul. It was quite a challenge to be an Invul/WM tank from issue 4 (when ED was implemented, I believe, up until WM got its buff (around issue 12, I think) 
Not only did both Shatter and Crowd Control do KB--huge KB in Shatter's case--but Clobber was purely a stun attack like Stun in EM, instead of doing the superior damage it does now.
As someone who leveled a Mace tank to 50 pre-buff, Castle will always be my hero for doing such a good job buffing Mace. -
It's better than it was, but I'm going to echo a lot of Breog's comments, just in a little more detail.
First of all, there's no need to take the resistance passives as soon as they're available. Taking them in the 20s or even 30s is fine, though you might want to get RPD on the earlier side of that range.
Personally, I'd go with Shadow Maul instead of Smite, but that will make it more difficult to hit the S/L soft-cap without using much more expensive IOs like Kinetic Combat or Rectified Reticle. Your call.
And although I don't have a lot of experience with it myself, the consensus on the tank Pyre Mastery pool is that Melt Armor isn't all that good and that Fire Blast is a better choice.
Okay, slotting issues:
No Steadfast +Def is definitely a problem. Get it and slot it in any resistance power, I usually put it in RPD.
The attacks slotted with Smashing Haymaker are underslotted for accuracy and damage. I prefer to use the Mako's Bite Acc/Dam/End/Rchg but any set IO that has both accuracy and damage will do.
I agree with Breog on UY, six-slotting with TC is pointless for typed defense, you get better bonuses with fewer slots by using Reactive Armor.
Invul does NOT need KB protection, UY will take care of that more than adequately. Save some influence and slots and drop all the -KB IOs.
Invinc is overslotted, and Red Fortune is not a great defense set for Invul. IMO, the go-to sets are Luck of the Gambler if you can afford it, or Gift of the Ancients if you're on a tighter budget or need additional recovery. In your case, I'd go with GotA, but if that's still too pricey, Serendipity is a cheap alternative. But use 4 slots at most for any of those sets. This applies to TH and Weave as well, and as Breog noted, you definitely want to slot up Weave better than you have here.
Siphon Life and Soul Drain are both good attacks, and should be slotted like attacks. Save yourself some slots and put the SH set you have in Boxing in SL instead, and use 3 Eradication plus another couple of slots in SD.
The BotZ sets in CJ and SJ aren't a great choice; the typed defense bonuses they offer now are just pitiful and Invul doesn't need the KB protection. SJ doesn't need more than the base slot; put defense common(s) in CJ and a Jump common in SJ.
Dark Consumption can also be slotted as an attack, and it would be a good place for another 3 slots of Eradication to boost your E/NE defense.
I agree with Breog, your epic attacks need more slots, especially Fireball.
Here's the sort of thing I'd do with your build. Note that it's soft-capped to S/L/E/NE with one in range of Invinc, and at 40% for F/C def. I avoided the Erad quad because it's by far the most expensive in the set, and if the Scirocco's Dervish IOs are too expensive, Multi Strike is a good, cheap alternative.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.92
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Next: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Dark Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(9), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(9), RctvArm-ResDam:40(11)
Level 1: Shadow Punch -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg:35(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx:35(5), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg:35(7), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(7), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(17)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-Rchg:50(A), Dct'dW-Heal:50(3), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:50(3), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:50(13), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg:50(15)
Level 4: Smite -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg:35(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx:35(23), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg:35(25), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(5), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(21)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(29)
Level 8: Unyielding -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(19), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(19), RctvArm-ResDam:40(21)
Level 10: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt:50(A), Mocking-Rchg:50(11), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg:50(13), Mocking-Acc/Rchg:40(15), Mocking-Taunt/Rng:40(23), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(34)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(34)
Level 14: Resist Physical Damage -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A), ResDam-I:40(27)
Level 16: Siphon Life -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg:35(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx:35(43), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg:35(45), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(45), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(45)
Level 18: Invincibility -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx:40(A), GftotA-Def/Rchg:40(36), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:40(36), GftotA-Def:40(36)
Level 20: Resist Energies -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(A), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg:50(39), Aegis-ResDam:50(40)
Level 22: Boxing -- Acc-I:35(A)
Level 24: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(25), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(40), RctvArm-ResDam:40(40)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx:40(A), GftotA-Def/Rchg:40(33), GftotA-Def:40(37)
Level 28: Soul Drain -- Erad-Dmg:30(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(29), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(31), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(31), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(31)
Level 30: Weave -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx:40(A), GftotA-Def/Rchg:40(33), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:40(33), GftotA-Def:40(34)
Level 32: Resist Elements -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(A), Aegis-ResDam:50(37), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg:50(42)
Level 35: Dark Consumption -- Erad-Dmg:30(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(37), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(39), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(39), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(50)
Level 38: Midnight Grasp -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg:35(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx:35(42), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg:35(42), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(43), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(46)
Level 41: Char -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg:40(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx:50(43), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg:50(46)
Level 44: Fire Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx:50(46), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg:50(48)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Posi-Dmg/Rng:50(50), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(50)
Level 49: Super Jump -- Jump-I:50(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal-I:50(A), Heal-I:50(27)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(17)
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Set Bonus Totals:- 16.75% Defense(Smashing)
- 16.75% Defense(Lethal)
- 12.38% Defense(Fire)
- 12.38% Defense(Cold)
- 18% Defense(Energy)
- 18% Defense(Negative)
- 3% Defense(Psionic)
- 9.875% Defense(Melee)
- 10.5% Defense(Ranged)
- 7.688% Defense(AoE)
- 9% Max End
- 18.75% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 4% Enhancement(Heal)
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 84.33 HP (4.5%) HitPoints
- MezResist(Held) 2.75%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 12.1%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
- 12.5% (0.209 End/sec) Recovery
- 20% (1.565 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 10.34% Resistance(Fire)
- 2.835% Resistance(Cold)
- 10% RunSpeed
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According to City of Data, it ticks every 2 seconds. Death Shroud is definitely a great power, especially because it does pure NE damage, which is not highly resisted. The only question is what you'd be willing to delay to get it early.
I forgot to ask in my previous message...do you have access to any veteran attacks? Sands of Mu in particular can be extremely helpful in the early levels when you don't have a complete attack chain. If you had that it would be less painful to delay one of the Ice attacks in order to Death Shroud. -
In a word, no, you do not want to put off the resistance toggles; DE gives S/L resistance and Ob Shield is your mez protection, both of which you need ASAP. Murky Cloud could be delayed for a little while, but I wouldn't recommend past 20. Dark Regen should also be taken relatively early, IMO.
Death Shroud is another question; I delayed it on my Dark/Mace because of the high end cost, but that was before inherent Stamina. However, IMO it can be delayed until the teens or early twenties. Just be aware that then you won't have an aggro aura, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem if you're mostly soloing.
Cloak of Darkness and Cloak of Fear can be delayed for a while, especially CoF, which many Dark tanks don't take at all. Keep in mind, though, that CoD is your immob protection, so unless you're planning to take CJ you don't want to wait to long to get it.
Travel powers are largely up to you, though a lot of Dark tanks take CJ for the immob protection and its defense. At one point Acro was also needed for KB protection; that's no loner the only option, but definitely plan to get KB IOs or Acro at some point.
Here's a Mid's build just to give you a power order suggestion for the first few levels. Again, you could swap Death Shroud and Murky Cloud, but I'd be hesitant to do that since IIRC Praetoria has a *lot* of energy damage. Eventually you will probably want to take the Fighting Pool both for the additional S/L resistance in Tough and the defense in Weave. Increasing defense by using pool powers and set bonuses is undoubtedly the best way to make your tank more survivable.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 48 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Dark Armor
Secondary Power Set: Ice Melee
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Dark Embrace -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Frozen Fists -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Ice Sword -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Murky Cloud -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Hover -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Obsidian Shield -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Frost -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Dark Regeneration -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Fly -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Taunt -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Death Shroud -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Ice Patch -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Cloak of Darkness -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Build Up -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Oppressive Gloom -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Hasten -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Freezing Touch -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Tough -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Frozen Aura -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Weave -- Empty(A)
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- Empty(A)
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Set Bonus Totals:
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Hmm, personally, I'd rather have all my attacks adequately slotted than some poorly slotted and some slotted out with procs. As it is, the attacks 4-slotted with Kinetic Combat and nothing else are underslotted for accuracy and damage.
Also, Aegis is not a great choice for this purpose, since F/C should be a very low priority for you. I'd go with Reactive Armor sets in all the resistance toggles instead.
Here's your build, reslotted so it doesn't need the Glad Armor +def, which will save you 2 billion or more right off the bat. F/C def is lower, E/NE def a little higher, which is the way to go, IMO since energy damage is far more common than F/C. Personally, I'd put another 3 Eradication plus another couple of set IOs in WH for more E/NE def, but you'd lose perma-hasten that way. Oh, and you definitely want to take Grounded long before 30 unless you like being a pinball.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
EngElcTnk: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Electric Armor
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Charged Armor -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(3), RctvArm-ResDam:40(37)
Level 1: Barrage -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(7), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(50)
Level 2: Conductive Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(9), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(11), RctvArm-ResDam:40(19)
Level 4: Energy Punch -- Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg:50(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(7), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx:50(9), Hectmb-Dam%:50(11), Hectmb-Dmg:50(13)
Level 6: Bone Smasher -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(17), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(33)
Level 8: Static Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam:40(13), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(17), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(19)
Level 10: Grounded -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A)
Level 12: Energize -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:50(A), Dct'dW-Rchg:50(23), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:50(23), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:50(25), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg:50(25)
Level 14: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(27), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(27), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(21)
Level 16: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(29)
Level 18: Whirling Hands -- Armgdn-Dam%:50(A), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx:50(29), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg:50(31), Armgdn-Dmg:50(31), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(31)
Level 20: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(21), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(37), RctvArm-ResDam:40(39)
Level 22: Super Jump -- ULeap-Stlth:50(A)
Level 24: Lightning Reflexes -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 26: Power Sink -- Efficacy-EndMod:50(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg:50(34), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:50(34), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg:50(34), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc:50(36), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx:50(36)
Level 28: Build Up -- Rec'dRet-ToHit:20(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg:20(36), RechRdx-I:50(37)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(33), LkGmblr-Def:50(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(39)
Level 32: Lightning Field -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(40), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(40), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(40)
Level 35: Energy Transfer -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(42), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(42), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(42), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(43)
Level 38: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt:50(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg:50(43), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(43), Mocking-Acc/Rchg:50(45), Mocking-Taunt/Rng:50(45), Mocking-Rchg:50(45)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(46), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(46)
Level 44: Total Focus -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(46), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(48), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(48), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(50)
Level 47: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(48), RechRdx-I:50(50)
Level 49: Power Surge -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 50: Spiritual Radial Boost
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal-I:50(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A)
------------
Set Bonus Totals:- 2.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 2.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 2.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 2.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 2.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 2.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 2.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 2.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 31.13% Defense(Smashing)
- 31.13% Defense(Lethal)
- 6.125% Defense(Fire)
- 6.125% Defense(Cold)
- 11.13% Defense(Energy)
- 11.13% Defense(Negative)
- 3% Defense(Psionic)
- 17.06% Defense(Melee)
- 7.063% Defense(Ranged)
- 4.563% Defense(AoE)
- 3.6% Max End
- 60% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 4% Enhancement(Heal)
- 39% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 203.81 HP (10.88%) HitPoints
- MezResist(Held) 2.75%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 18.15%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
- 9.5% (0.159 End/sec) Recovery
- 50% (3.912 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 6.3% Resistance(Fire)
- 6.3% Resistance(Cold)
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I know you're relatively new to the game, so apologies if you know this already. FYI, slotting Disorients in a power does NOT, as you might expect, increase the chances for the target being stunned, it just increases the duration of the stun if they do get stunned.
So, although it's not a bad idea to slot Disorient duration in an attack (I have one in Clobber on my two Mace tanks) I certainly wouldn't do that instead of damage. One Disorient slot, tops, and I only use one in Clobber because it's slotted with sets and is fully slotted for damage and everything else already. -
Quote:So in other words, adding defense above 45% won't help against accuracy bonuses, just to-hit bonuses or to-hit debuffs.Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
The only difference that the level-based accuracy makes is that an enemy with floored hit chance (when you are softcapped -- at 45% def) has a higher hit chance (specifically, 5% * acc bonus)
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Leaving room to 4-slot toggles is with sets is fine, but you'd be much better using that 4th slot for end reduction rather than a wasted def/res SO.
Even as an off-tank I think you'd want LF--it's your aggro aura, after all, and will contribute a significant amount of damage. And although WM doesn't hit super-hard, it is extremely useful it getting and keeping the attention of the bad guys.
In general, an Electric tank won't be as tough as, say, an Invul tank with just SOs, but it's by no means squishy. You might not want to jump into tanking +4s on an 8-person team, but don't be afraid to try some real tanking. It's just debt, after all.
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I see that the description of Grounded says "near", but I also thought your feet have to be touching the ground for Grounded to work. I'd check that out before committing to Hover. Personally, I'd say away from Hover, the idea of "hover-tanking" has never appealed to me.
Some of your other choices seem questionable to me, too. For instance, why no Lightning Field or Whirling Mace? They are the only true PBAoEs available to you, so I'd definitely take both. I consider Pulverize to be the most skippable WM power for a tank, so I'd drop that and Hover to get LF and WM.
I'm also not sure why you would need CP and Physical Perfection on an ELA tank, since it has such a good end recovery power. If you don't want epic attacks, I'd get Hasten and something else instead.
Your slotting also needs work. Remember the discussion about ED? The fourth res/def slots in your toggles are wasted, you'd be much better off slotting end reduction in the toggles and dropping the fourth slot entirely for passives like Grounded.
And you absolutely DO NOT want to slot KB in Crowd Control--the idea is to keep them around you, not send them flying away!
Fly needs just one slot to cap Fly speed, so use the other slots elsewhere. Drop at least one slot from Hover, it has a very low end cost and the fourth def slot is just wasted.
Here's your build with my revisions. I left Hover in because there was room after dropping Physical Perfection, but I would definitely double-check how it works with Grounded before deciding whether to keep it. I added the Steadfast +Def to Grounded, which even with SOs I think you should get ASAP. I don't think just 15% defense is going to feel like much additional survivability; 18% is a little better, though you'll definitely need to use sets if you want this character to feel really tough. I would prefer to slot both Energize and Power Sink more heavily, but with SOs it's hard to do that without either skimping in the toggles or the attacks. It'll be easier with IOs.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Odiniya: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Electric Armor
Secondary Power Set: War Mace
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Charged Armor -- EndRdx(A), ResDam(3), ResDam(3), ResDam(5)
Level 1: Bash -- Acc(A), EndRdx(33), Dmg(34), Dmg(34), Dmg(46)
Level 2: Conductive Shield -- EndRdx(A), ResDam(5), ResDam(7), ResDam(7)
Level 4: Jawbreaker -- Acc(A), EndRdx(15), Dmg(25), Dmg(25), Dmg(31)
Level 6: Static Shield -- EndRdx(A), ResDam(9), ResDam(9), ResDam(11)
Level 8: Hover -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(13), DefBuff(33)
Level 10: Taunt -- RechRdx(A)
Level 12: Grounded -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A), ResDam(13)
Level 14: Energize -- Heal(A), Heal(15), RechRdx(17), RechRdx(17)
Level 16: Fly -- Flight(A)
Level 18: Lightning Reflexes -- Run(A)
Level 20: Clobber -- Acc(A), EndRdx(21), RechRdx(23), Dmg(23), Dmg(36), Dmg(36)
Level 22: Build Up -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(42)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(36), DefBuff(37), DefBuff(37)
Level 26: Power Sink -- EndMod(A), EndMod(27), RechRdx(27), RechRdx(29), RechRdx(46)
Level 28: Whirling Mace -- Acc(A), EndRdx(29), RechRdx(31), Dmg(31), Dmg(33), Dmg(42)
Level 30: Kick -- Acc(A)
Level 32: Lightning Field -- Acc(A), EndRdx(34), EndRdx(37), Dmg(39), Dmg(42), Dmg(46)
Level 35: Shatter -- Acc(A), EndRdx(39), RechRdx(39), Dmg(40), Dmg(40), Dmg(45)
Level 38: Crowd Control -- Acc(A), EndRdx(40), RechRdx(43), Dmg(43), Dmg(43), Dmg(45)
Level 41: Power Surge -- RechRdx(A)
Level 44: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(45)
Level 47: Tough -- EndRdx(A), ResDam(48), ResDam(48), ResDam(48)
Level 49: Weave -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(50), DefBuff(50), DefBuff(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal(A), Heal(19), Heal(21)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(11), EndMod(19)
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Set Bonus Totals:- 3% Defense(Melee)
- 3% Defense(Smashing)
- 3% Defense(Lethal)
- 3% Defense(Fire)
- 3% Defense(Cold)
- 3% Defense(Energy)
- 3% Defense(Negative)
- 3% Defense(Psionic)
- 3% Defense(Ranged)
- 3% Defense(AoE)
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Well, heck, BC, if I'd known you'd quote my previous post, I wouldn't have bothered to type all that stuff up again.
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Well for one thing, it's the Kinetic Combat sets that are particularly expensive, and that's because they're damn good for S/L def and everyone gets melee attacks and can use them. IME the other sets that offer typed def aren't any more expensive than sets offering positional def, and you usually need fewer of them.
But basically, there are two reasons why I'd go with typed def over positional, and the first one is just that it does take fewer slots to get the bonuses. For instance, it takes 5 slots of Scirocco's Dervish to get 3.13% AoE defense, and 3 of Aegis for the same amount of F/C defense. Four slots of Kinetic Combat for 3.75% S/L defense, and 6 slots of Touch of Death for that much melee defense.
That means you have a lot more flexibility in slotting. With sets, you can fully slot an attack with 5 slots if you're not locked in to using 6 slots to get a particular bonus. With typed defense, often that 6th slot can be used for something else. You can also shore up weaknesses in a set, for instance, making sure an attack that's 3-slotted with Eradication has enough end reduction. Six-slotting Obliteration for the Melee def bonus won't give you that option. And you can also mix and match sets for even more bonuses--for instance, Char and other ranged attacks that take Hold sets can be 3 slotted with Thunderstrike and 2 slotted with Gaze of the Basilisk for a total of 5% E/NE def in one attack.
The other reason is that if you slot for the most common damage types you can increase your survivability significantly without having to slot for all types. The last estimate I've seen was that around 86% of attacks have some S/L or E/NE damage. Picking two positional defense types and slotting for them is not going to give you near that level of coverage.
That's why I like typed defense, anyway. Hope that helps! -
I like it, and use it on my tech-origin Dark/Mace tank.
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Quote:Eradication and Cleaving Blow, FYI. If you slot 3 of each in an attack it's worth around 4.4% E/NE defense.Originally Posted by Tormentoso
One thing I did with my Inv/Mace was slot for type defense, which PBAoE sets have plenty of. Don't recall offhand, but there are 2 PBAoE sets which offer Eng/Neg with 3 pieces, so I slotted 3 of each for nice Acc/Dam/Rech values and sexy def bonuses to go in tandem with the Kinetic Combats in the Single Target attachs.
One thing to watch out for, though, is that the CB bonus is the same E/NE def bonus as in Reactive Armor, so it's easy to go over the Rule of 5 if you're not paying attention. -
Yes, thanks a bunch! I want to get my other slots eventually, but I'd like to have the Alpha slot filled first so this will be a huge help.
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I think I know the answer to this, but I want to make sure I didn't miss anything.
Is this correct?
To create the Alpha slot enhancement at any level you have to use Shards, or something that will break down into Shards, like Notice of the Well.
To create any Incarnate slot enhancement other than the Alpha slot, you have to use Threads or something that breaks down into Threads, like Astral Merits.
Shards can be combined into Threads, but Threads can't be broken down into Shards.
There are Common, Uncommon and Rare Incarnate components that are combined to make enhancements for the Alpha and other Incarnate slots, but there's a different set of components for the Alpha slot that are not used for the other Incarnate slots.
If anyone could confirm or correct this I would very much appreciate it! I have a character that has a bunch of Threads from a Incarnate Trial but still needs Shards to complete the Alpha slot. I was hoping I could use or convert Threads for that purpose, but there doesn't seem to be a way to do it. -
Quote:50% defense debuff resistance is "little to none"? I think we have a very different definition of the phrase then. I remember very well the time when Invul literally had none, and I've found in practice that even 50% makes a huge difference. Between soft-capped S/L/E/NE defense and the 50% debuff resistance, even situations like the ITF where defense debuffs are rampant pose little threat to a Invul tanker. As a matter of fact, I did the ITF on my Invul/EM at Tanker Tuesday this week and can't remember having a single cascade defense debuff.Originally Posted by Brimmy
Yes more than 45% def is 'usually' a bit of a waste, but what i'm also trying to keep in mind is that invuln has little-to-none Defense Debuff resist, meaning that a single application will pretty much break the build-concept. Having more than necessary def is one way of negating this, to a degree
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Quote:IMO, this is every bit as dismissive of people who like and use Unstop the way it is than those people who gave advice on how to survive the Unstop crash.Originally Posted by Nihilii
I can understand the point of view of people who don't care about performance and enjoys toying with the crash, but just because the crash is fun to some doesn't make it balanced. Unfortunately for me, fortunately for you guys, it probably means we won't ever see changes to the power.
Are you really arguing that using Unstop suggests that a player "doesn't care about performance" because the crash takes you out of the fight for 20-30 seconds?
In a word, no. Some players feel that the additional survivability that Unstop gives you for 3 minutes is worth the very brief and usually survivable crash. You don't obviously, and others don't, and that's a perfectly reasonable choice, as is the decision to take it and use it when needed.
I just wish I had room for it on my two Invul tanks, but now that they're both soft-capped I dropped it to make room for powers they need more. -
Quote:I'd go with a stealth IO then, and skip the power Stealth.Originally Posted by darkangel32
no i want stealth just to stealth missions, could care less about the defense. makes running lamda alot easier i would think instead of getting shot by all those mobs as we are running through to kill the boxes.
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Quote:3% F/C def for 3 slots of Aegis is crap? Wow, that's a really...interesting perspective.Originally Posted by UberRod
Personally I never cared for Aegis as a set as I usually 3 slot my dam res powers and the set bonuses for just 3 are crap.
In terms of set bonuses for 3 slotted damage resist powers I'm not too crazy about any res set.
Building up F/C defense may not be top priority for most tanks, but I don't see how that changes the fact that slotting Aegis is an excellent way to get F/C def if you want it. -
War Mace is quite good for both ST and AoE damage, and has loads of reliable damage mitigation. At 30, you won't have the final two cones, which are what make it a good AoE set. Two of the three AoEs are cones rather than PBAoE, which might be considered a drawback, but Crowd Control is a 180 cone and it is very easy to hit (and KD) several foes at once.
I've got two level 50 Mace tanks, so I'm admittedly biased, but I think it's a great set and only gets better when you pick up the final two attacks. -
Quote:It probably won't be any consolation, but I did the exact same thing on the first character to run the Mender Ramiel arc. What's really embarrassing is before I headed off to run my TF I was STANDING NEXT TO MENDER RAMIEL.Originally Posted by Local_Man
I ran the Mender Ramiel arc on one of my level 50 characters and finished the last mission to get my Alpha Slot . . . and just as I was finishing, some buddies of mine announced that they were running an STF . . . Oh, goodie! I need Shards!
So off I go to run the STF . . . and I noticed that I wasn't getting any Shards about half way through. I asked everyone else if they were getting Shards . . . everyone (who was level 50 and had the Alpha Slot) said yes . . . I just assumed I was being unlucky.
Last mission in, I decided to check in case I had missed any shards that had dropped . . . and I didn't have the Alpha Slot. "What the . . ." Then I realized that in my hurry to join the TF, I had forgotten to do the last little chat with the Mender where you actually GET the Alpha Slot. . . . My buddies on Ventrilo suddenly heard a string of invictives which are not my usual language . . .
D'oh! One little click was all I needed...
P.S. I do think it's confusing the first time around that even though it SAYS you got an Incarnate Shard at the end of the last mission, you don't actually get one until you talk to Ramiel. -
Quote:Getting flattened by the Psi Clockwork King is practically a rite of passage for Invul tanks. There was a whole thread of stories like that in the Tanker forum a year or two ago--and one of them was mine.Originally Posted by Flower
My funniest (for me at least) was on a LGTF. First mission, I was on my Invulnerability/Super Strength Tank and handling stuff just fine.
Yep you guessed it, got to Clockwork King, ran in threw taunt and was dead before it finished animating. Oh yeah, Invulnerability doesn't do well against psionic damage, guess I should have hit a purple and orange or two before doing that -
Great thread!
I had one last night. Fighting Rommy in the last mish of the ITF, I waited too long to hit my heal and faceplanted. Asked for a small yellow to make a wakie, and one of my team members nicely gave one to me. I then proceeded to combine yellows to make a GREEN. Arrgh, fat lot of good that did me.
If anyone wondered why I ended up hosping anyway after getting the insp I needed, no one asked--I was too embarrassed to admit what I'd done. -
Your primary/secondary power picks are fine, IMO, Pulverize is probably the most skippable WM attack. However, although Maneuvers is a good choice for defense, I wouldn't recommend Tactics or Assault; the benefit is too small for tanks given the end cost of running them.
You also might want to consider going for S/L/E/NE typed defense rather than positional. It's hard enough to get defense to 32% or 45% on a set like ELA that has no native defense, but with positional you need to work on 3 types rather than two if you go for S/L/E/NE defense.
I was surprised to see how underslotted Conductive Shield and Tough are given that you said in your intro that you want your resistances as high as possible. I'd add another slot to each of those and try to get as close to 56% enhancement as possible.
Also, I'd be concerned that you have three attacks, including Lightning Field, which is a very high-end toggle, slotted with full Oblit sets. I know ELA has good end recovery, but Oblit has very little end reduction so you might want to re-think that.
Oh, and you don't want to put the PF +End in Power Sink since you'll only get the benefit of it when Power Surge is up. Put it in Stamina instead.
Here's what your build would look like with typed rather than positional defense. The Kinetic Combat sets will be pricey, but the most of the other things I added are pretty reasonable. I dropped Assault and Tactics and picked up SJ and Power Surge, though a couple of epic attacks would be a good choice too. If you do go with attacks and need more slots, the Gaussian's set in Build Up can go since it only gives a 1.25% typed defense bonus and without it you'll still be a little above 32% S/L/E/NE defense.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Electric Armor
Secondary Power Set: War Mace
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Charged Armor -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(3), RctvArm-ResDam:40(5)
Level 1: Bash -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(21), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(21)
Level 2: Conductive Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(5), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(7), RctvArm-ResDam:40(7)
Level 4: Jawbreaker -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(13), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(13), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(17)
Level 6: Static Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(9), RctvArm-ResDam:40(17), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(37)
Level 8: Grounded -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Def:50(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(11)
Level 12: Energize -- Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:50(A), Dct'dW-Heal:50(36), Dct'dW-Rchg:50(36), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:50(36), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg:50(37)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(15), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(15)
Level 16: Boxing -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 18: Lightning Reflexes -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 20: Clobber -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:50(29), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:50(31), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(31), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31)
Level 22: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(23), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(23), RctvArm-ResDam:40(39)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(25), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(25)
Level 26: Power Sink -- P'Shift-EndMod/Acc:50(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg:50(27), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:50(29), P'Shift-EndMod:50(39)
Level 28: Whirling Mace -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(34), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(43), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg:50(45)
Level 30: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit:50(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg:50(33), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx:50(33), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx:50(33), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx:50(34), GSFC-Build%:50(34)
Level 32: Power Surge -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 35: Shatter -- Erad-Dmg:30(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(37), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(45), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(46), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(46)
Level 38: Crowd Control -- Erad-Dmg:30(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(40), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(40), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(43)
Level 41: Lightning Field -- Erad-%Dam:30(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(42), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(42), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(42), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(43), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(48)
Level 44: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt:50(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg:50(46), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(48), Mocking-Acc/Rchg:50(50), Mocking-Taunt/Rng:50(50), Mocking-Rchg:50(50)
Level 47: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(48)
Level 49: Super Jump -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 50: Cardiac Core Boost
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Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(27)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod:50(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg:50(9), P'Shift-End%:50(40)
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Set Bonus Totals:- 2.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 2.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 2.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 2.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 2.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 2.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 2.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 2.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 19.25% Defense(Smashing)
- 19.25% Defense(Lethal)
- 8.938% Defense(Fire)
- 8.938% Defense(Cold)
- 18.63% Defense(Energy)
- 18.63% Defense(Negative)
- 3% Defense(Psionic)
- 13% Defense(Melee)
- 12.69% Defense(Ranged)
- 10.19% Defense(AoE)
- 7.2% Max End
- 16% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 4% Enhancement(Heal)
- 40% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 10% FlySpeed
- 253 HP (13.5%) HitPoints
- 10% JumpHeight
- 10% JumpSpeed
- MezResist(Held) 2.75%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 12.1%
- MezResist(Sleep) 3.3%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
- 5% (0.084 End/sec) Recovery
- 50% (3.912 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 1.26% Resistance(Fire)
- 1.26% Resistance(Cold)
- 3.125% Resistance(Negative)
- 10% RunSpeed
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Yes, the idea behind switching the Aegis and Reactive Armor sets was more slot efficiency than greater end reduction.
And I should have mentioned that I reslotted Shadow Maul and Soul Drain, in part to improve their end reduction. End use of attacks isn't included in the end drain and recovery totals, so it's easy to overlook the effect of underslotting attacks for end reduction.
Damage may not be the primary goal of a tanker build, but it does play a role in aggro control since it increases threat. And I honestly don't see why a tank wouldn't want to fully slot attacks for damage as long as it's not done at the expense of other important build considerations.
Lastly, of course you can keep as many KC sets as you wish, but keep in mind that you will rarely use more than 45% defense, and in cases where you do you will most likely have more available to you with the foe bonus in Invinc.