EmpireForgotten

*I can't beleive Im actually going to say this*

Given the current options that we have (Supression on/off, DR on/off) I think No supression on and no DR off would provide the forum for more diverse lineups than what we see now.

I would personally like to see a No global resists or a No heal decay button, but I doubt we would get those.

Having DR on just requires phase shift to be used more. Disruption teams (end stealing/slowing/minus tohit'ing) can actually do something.



Its really sad that PvP has come to either having a broken game mechanic used or having to ban powers to fix the broken game mechanic.

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You cant really believe people dueling want to fight you mid duel...

I dont see what is to be gained other than small chance of a pvp IO and to spoil other peoples fun.

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It's easy, really - anything goes in a PvP zone. If I see someone con orange, I'll attack them (well, most of the time anyways). If people want to duel uninterrupted, Pocket D is only a button click and 15 seconds away.

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I know what is done and that anything goes in a pvp zone, i have already said he has every right to attack, what i dont understand is why he (or you) would want to. There is no challenge and slim chance of a reward.

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Enemy NPC fight all the time and people attack them mid fight all the time. We don't see any complaints there

On a serious note. When I go into a PvP zone and I see someone con orange - I immediately go into attack mode. I don't stop to think if their in a duel, or if their waiting for a duel to start. I attack. If I stopped to look both ways before I started PvP, I would end up getting AS'd for standing still for to long. If I am on a support player, I will heal my fellow hero because that's what I am there to do - to support the other players.

This suggestion has honestly come up more times than I can count and I have yet to see a dissenting argument for it.

My question is: why isn't it in game yet?

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Yep - just read this and I do sound like a jerk.

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Not really, you do sound like someone I wouldn't want to team with though.

I personally think being able to decline specific buffs is a great idea, CoH just isn't a challenging enough game where we need to have this "Everyone must give 100%" mentality.

If we could finally refuse Ice Shields, *I* could stop being a jerk and stop actively avoiding Cold characters when forming teams.

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I get that a lot.

But I disagree with CoH not being challenging enough. The main reason I like MA is the ability to make absurdly difficult mobs and then tackling them with a well oiled team.

My playstyle and the group I run with doesn't PuG very well - we sometimes move to fast. That leads to multiple teamwipes, whailing, gnashing of teeth, noob calling, and ultimately, teamquitting. It's the price I pay I guess.

Anyways, I still /unsigned - but I totally support being able to turn off non-team buffs. Even I can appriciate costume contests on occasion and people buffing during those are really irritating.

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I don't see having a power auto decline as tieing anyones hands. If someone keeps casting a buff on you and doesn't notice the icon never shows up or the effects they need more practice.

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This post is going to make me sound like a big jerk - which I am, but I try not to be in game atleast.

When I lead a team, I build a team around buffs. I usually don't take tanks- Not to say that they aren't good, They just make it a little too easy for my taste. I like to build a team of squishies and roll really fast through missions. I don't do it for the rewards (usually), I do it more for the challenge.

Anyways, If I have a team that 2 empaths, 1 rad, 2 colds, 2 scrappers - I expect everyone that I invite to accept every single buff that comes their way. People are right in saying I have no right to tell people how to play their toons, but I also have the right to not team with people who don't mesh with the philosophy of the team I am forming.

So, if someone has their /decline on and the emp throws AB their way - that's one buff wasted and its on a long recharge. Same goes for heatloss and AM. Fort is on a shorter recharge, but it is still annoying to cast it only to find it wasted.

People might say "Why would anyone turn those off? There is no bad side effects." I say the same thing about speedboost and ice shields, yet people hate those because they can't control their toon or they hate that their costume can't be seen. (WTH does that matter in a mission anyways!?)


The thing that makes games like this fun is that different playstyles can interact. The way people like to play the game might seem alien to me, but it doesn't make it wrong. Also, liking or disliking something in the game doesn't make either argument less valid (unless its people who wish for the game to end, which is kind of counterproductive).

In the end, I feel adding a game mechanic to the game that enables a user to block certain aspects from another user is wrong. If something like this were to go into effect, I would certain hope there would be a way to tell if that certain person is using said /decline command. That way I would know not to waste my time and invite them - because our team philosophys would not mesh and it would be best to avoid the drama that would ensue.


Yep - just read this and I do sound like a jerk.

Although limiting the selection of powers is not good, I would be for this.

My biggest problem with the current ladder is that stalkers are needed 100% of the time inorder to get consistant kills. If someone has a well known lineup that doesn't include stalkers, please post it. I spent a lot of time thinking about lineups that work - both prei12 and post i12. Here is what I see (Again, please tell me I am wrong and that I suck, because I really hope that is the case).

-With no unresisted debuffs, debuffing classes are basically worthless.
-Storms can't minus range people or hurt recharge because slows/range have a much higher cap than before.
-Rads net you 10% -resist for each EF and it would take you atleast two to break the resistance cap on some ATs.
-Cold benumb is mildly intriguing, but does it do enough to warrant a spot on a 5 person team where Defense is meaningless and -resist is meaningless?

I can think of several counters to the stalker teams, but that isn't my point really. The point is all the lineups I can think of really require 2 stalkers in order to be effective - and in a 5v5 lineup that's not very diverse. Am I supposed to run all tanks just so I can pray that we have a perfect spike sometime during the match?


Here is just a couple question to think about:

Would lineups change any if they added in an option to remove global resists?

Back in i8ish i9ish, The big complaint between hero vs villain was blaster damage and unresisted debuff. Now that the shoe is on the other foot (stalker damage and no unresisted debuffs), why do we think that these ATs can exist in the same ladder?




Do I want a seperate ladder? no I don't, but it just feels like we addressed this before (only it was heroes being Overpowered alot instead of Villains having the edge a little).

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If two people are trying to duel, I generally choose another target (if available), but I reserve the right to attack anyone I want at any time (since my target in already dueling ME by MY rules).

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You probably are still ignored, but someone quoted you.


and /signed too - no reason for this not to be in game ritenao!

Also, RP reasons should never be the reason for not adding in something to the game.

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I'd put money down you're going to get people coming in saying "And while you're at it, put in a prompt for...." (Add your favourites to the list. Grant invis, speed boost, ID, any buff.)

Autoaccept makes sense. Autodecline - I'm a little more iffy about with TP and Rez, but I'd be fine with on the Fortune, as long as the caster gets a message saying "Player is set to auto-decline (buff,)" just so the caster doesn't waste time (and, depending on the other buffs that will inevitably be suggested, END) trying to re-cast it.

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I would be all for this idea if it was just for Off team buffs. Example: Im in a costume contest and someone is putting ice shields on everyone.

If youre on a team, you should be willing and able to accept all buffs. If you don't want a specific buff, you can and should ask. If you're request isn't greated well, its probably best to find a different team. But adding a game mechanic that basically ties the hand of the caster (expecially on buffs that take a long time to recharge) doesn't sit well with me.

Rules look good, but I would disagree with the reset on Office and Caves.

With DR turned on, you can't really disrupt someone enough to make either of these maps broken. The only reason the cage is broken is because a team of two can camp in the cage and debuff the entrances. With the office - if someone wants to camp in the upper room, they can get hit with ranged attacks through the windows.

Also, since you can't minus range someone to 0 anymore with taunt or storms, both of those maps could be useful.

I would either remove all unresisted elements from the game or put back in the old unresisted damages of blasters and unresisted debuffs of defenders

Question of the day:
Q: Who is more bitter?
A: Zetargos Kazhard
B: Roy
C: Slax
D: Empire
E: ScoobyDoo

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AS is not bugged and is not 100% unresisted however there is an unresisted portion just like there was before. Do some testing and watch your damage logs.

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Last night I had a single AS hit me for 893.3 points of damage from the critical. Only 100 damage from the the non-critical part - I didn't think it could possibly get that high with me having 75% resist to everything (Since DR was off and I had global resist + shield running)

It was like that most of the night for me and I don't seem to remember getting hit that hard before in other matches.

I should have screenshotted it because it just looked odd

Just a general question:

Is the current version of AS bugged - meaning crits being 100% unresisted?

Assuming the current version of AS is bugged and it gets fixed so that it is unresisted (I would guess it would be 100% unresisted because no other set has an unresisted damage), what lineups do you think people will run?

I was noticing last night with our damage heavy lineup that it was very hard to even Dent a target. The tank was doing very well too keeping us disrupted.

I'm just hoping to not see a lot of 1-0 wins or 0-0 ties, like we did when cage was near perma and people ran double cage lineups.

I would much rather have MA serve as the medium for PvP content. You could pick any map you want (Maybe even create custom maps someday), set the requirements (You need to defend the vault against attackers), and have a team who wants to go.

Similar to base raids - but without the hassle of having the prestige to make a raidable base. Plus base raiding has a single objective with multiple avenues to get there. I think custom PvP mission would be nice to have a multiple objectives for a win. (Like a villain team wants to kidnap the mayor or And rob a bank - you need to decide how you are going to defend both)

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I -REALLY- like this idea! It also can be used to drain influence out of the bloated pig that is the market!

Great idea, Terp!

-Rachel-

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Has hell frozen over?

But seriously - I like it too.

Ill be gone this day - but good luck.

If the turnout is good, I may throw in a miracle/numina proc to the last place winner

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I think enough people complain about it that I don't really see the profit in continuing to argue with them over it.

And anyway, come on. How realistic is not being able to walk slower?

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When the game was made it was made binary. You move forward at X speed or you don't move. You can adjust your speed by turning on/off powers or getting buffs, but you can't have your cake and eat it too with the current system.

Not saying I agree with it - its just the way that it is.



I think there is a group of people out there that would want a "Walk" toggle 10x more than a speed cap slider.

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Welcome to the Suggestions and Ideas forum. Here, we talk about how the game is now, and ways we'd like to change it. Seriously, we know how it was when it was made. That's why there's a suggestion here to change it.

Your post doesn't address the merits (or drawbacks) of the suggestion. It just sort of wallows in its own air of assumed helplessness.

A walk toggle, to be quite frank, would fall under a different suggestion.

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Wow, this certainly does sound familiar

Who would have guessed - 4 months later, that they same two people - mogura and me - would have almost identical posts about this same topic?

You're very passionate about how much you want this change. Thats respectable - but the youtube video I linked last time we had this post still applies in all your responses in this post.

On topic
This problem should be easily resolved by just allowing an accept team only buff option. It should be togglable via the user interface options menu. This way, external team buffs during raids (Hamidon and Rikti) can be accepted, but if you are in AP in a costume contest, you can turn off external team buffs so you aren't disrupted.

PE beats dUmb 2-0. Grats and GG!

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I think enough people complain about it that I don't really see the profit in continuing to argue with them over it.

And anyway, come on. How realistic is not being able to walk slower?

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When the game was made it was made binary. You move forward at X speed or you don't move. You can adjust your speed by turning on/off powers or getting buffs, but you can't have your cake and eat it too with the current system.

Not saying I agree with it - its just the way that it is.



I think there is a group of people out there that would want a "Walk" toggle 10x more than a speed cap slider.

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Get a better computer or runner a cleaner system.

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?Buy it for me.

Though now that I've upgraded my RAM I don't really get speed crash anymore. In fact I've started making superspeeders, recently! =-3

Doesn't change the fact that many people have computer issues with it. So which would be cheaper? Each and every person buying a new computer or upgrading the one they have to a minimum standard ABOVE The System Requirements of the game, OR The Devs spending a week or two on the Speed Scale for players who don't want to crash?

Unless you've got -deeeeeeeeeeeeep- pockets, Munki, your argument is rather pointless. =-3

-Rachel-

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How many people do you think have this issue? (also, I ran CoV on a minimum specs PC for a long time and I never had problems with speed crashing) I think most people that dislike SB really only dislike it due to the running into walls and such. I think the people who crash out do to SB and Superspeed is very very small.

***Skip to the end if you want the readers digest version of my suggestions***

With the latest enhancements to the PvP system from i14, I felt it was time to write a new post requesting additional enhancements to the current system. Some might feel that this post is a waste of time and they might be right. I feel that if we aren’t happy with the way things currently are, the only real way we will see progress is to move forward with the system the developers like and try to find ways to make it work. To that end, I would hope that this post could be a good discussion forum for what changes we would like to add to the system that we have in place.

We have seen a lot of “Just go back to i12 PvP plz” posts, but those don’t really get anywhere. The current PvP system is very much engrained into the game by now and a rollback is probably not possible (Even if it was, the bugs from the rollback would cause major havoc and set the game back months). Ok, let’s get right to it:

[u]1. Tweaks to Mez Resistance:[u]
Preface - Currently, the system really limits the use of support based characters, namely Empaths, Kinetics, Pain domination, Thermal, and Sonic. While each of these sets offer other things aside from support – their core function is support. Doing something outside of sets core function is not bad, but if you are not fulfilling your function, you could be replaced by a better performing AT or set. Also, Sets that use offensive toggles - namely Rads, Storms, Dark sets (Miasma and Armor), and Willpower – are at a very large disadvantage compared to sets that don’t use offensive toggles. The changes that allow defensive toggles to stay on are great, it really adds to more dynamic fights that don’t end ‘as soon as you’re held.’ But the problem is that there isn’t balance between the sets that do toggle drop and those that don’t.

That said, here are some tweaks that I think might work.

-Set a Certain threshold for mez resistance (Say 200%) and Set a cap for resistance (Say 500%). If an AT is within this resistance barrier, that can’t be held. To counter this, each mezzing attack could reduce the mez resistance that a person has by 100%. Break frees would also grant 100% mez resistance for the duration of the Inspiration
Example: Team is Scrapper + Empath. Scrapper has his mez toggle on (100% resistance) and 4 CMs (400% resistance). They fight a team of 2 Controllers (Fire/Rads lets say)
Scrapper = 500% resistance. 2 controllers throw their holds once. These holds last for 4 seconds. The scrappers Resistance is now 300%. They throw their holds again, Now the resistance is down to 100% = Scrapper held

What this does is allow for the support to remain viable by equalizing the control heavy line up. This also doesn’t completely negate the controllers’ powers, because they can, in fact, get the scrapper held.

If that idea doesn’t fly with the vision of PvP, how about this:
-Set a certain threshold for mez resistance (Say 200%) If a person has 200% mez resistance, they will not drop offensive toggles. This again, allows for a support player to help keep ‘Offensive Toggle dependent’ Sets viable and productive in PvP.

[u]2. Tweaking of the Damage normalization to include more data. [u]
Preface – Currently, All damage is balanced around how long it takes to cast. In theory, this is an excellent idea because it balances the “Quick strike” tactics with the long casting attacks. The problem where this runs into is most noticed with blasters. Currently, Blaze does 185 damage base in PvP. Fire Blast (The tier 2 fire attack) does 170. A higher Tier attack that Recharges longer, takes more endurance, and has less range should do considerable more damage.

Here is how I would fix that:
Change the Equation that figures out PvP damage to include the following (In this order of importance):
Activation time
Tier level
Endurance (base)
Range (base)* (only used when comparing within a given set, IE comparing blaze to fire blast)
Recharge (base)
Primary/Secondary/epic/pool
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*********(Skip to the next line of asterisk if you don’t want to see a big wall of numbers)****************
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Activation time is very important because if you are rooted for a long time – you want your shot to mean something (think Shout from sonic blast). Lets take two examples – Bitter Ice Blast and Shout (The information below is taken from Mids):

Bitter Ice Blast – Base damage (Currently) 125
Activation Time – 1.07 sec
Endurance – 13
Rech – 12
Tier – 7

Shout – Base damage (currently) 208
Activation Time – 2.67 sec
Endurance - 11
Rech – 11
Tier – 5

Bitter Ice Blast is a later tier power, costs more endurance, and has a longer recharge time. Its damage should be comparable to shout because of these conditions. It should not exceed shout (Activation time is the most important part) but these other areas shouldn’t be ignored.

Taking the criteria I listed above for the new PvP damage, below are the multipliers I would use:
Activation time – Weight 5/5
Endurance (base) – weight 4/5
Range (base) – weight 4/5* (Only used when comparing within the set – gets messy when comparing outside the set)
Recharge (base) – weight 4/5
Primary/Secondary/epic/pool – Weight 4/3/2/1
Tier – Each tier level is given weight 5

So Bitter ice blast vs Shout
Activation time 1.07 – Weight 5 vs Activation 2.67 – Weight 5. Shout 250% more damage than Bitter Ice blast at Weight 5. (This caps at 100%)
Endurance 13 vs Endurance 11 – Bitter ice blast should do 18% more damage than Shout at weight 4
Range 50 Vs range 40 – Not Compared between two sets
Recharge - Bitter ice blast should do 10% more damage than Shout at weight 4
Primary vs Primary – Next out at 0%
Tier 7 vs Tier 5 – 40% more for Ice blast

100% - .8(18%) - .8(10%) – 40% = Shout should be 37.6% more damaging than Bitter Ice Blast. This would keep shout at 207, but increase Bitter Ice blast from 125 to 151 base.

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The math above might not be the best way to do things, but it keeps things balanced as they are without the huge disparities we are seeing in zones today (Spirit sharks doing more damage than a heavy hitting blaster primary power or Flurry doing more thank knockout blow).

[u]3. Increase DR thresholds for external buffs/set bonuses. [u]
Preface – Currently, DR hurts every AT in zones. Invul tanks have almost equal resistance to controllers who take their shield. SR scrappers find that their tier nine power only grants a small amount of extra defense. Shield inspirations aren’t used because they only give 1-2 points extra resistance.

The current DR restrictions are too severe. The DR thresholds, coupled with global resistance for squishy ATs leads to a lot of the same fights. You can almost guarantee in RV that all ATs will have at least 40% resistance to everything. Where this begins to show itself is if you have a tank with 40% resistance to everything, that means a whole lot more than a controller (who has a little HP cap compared to tanks with a large one). I may have the same resistance, but the tank has more HP, does more damage and the controls can’t mitigate the tank long enough to survive.

Suggestions: Allow external buffs to ignore DR thresholds. Example: If I play a sonic defender, currently my shields do almost nothing to another teammate. If the external buffs ignored DR, then you wouldn’t have an issue because there still would exist the PvE softcap that all ATs have. This encourages balanced teams - which fits thematically within the realm of superheroes and comics

4. Since Stalkers have some un-resisted damage at the moment, Give some un-resisted damage back to blasters
- 20% would be enough to allow a skilled blaster to beat a tank/brute AT

[u]***Readers Digest Area***[u]
1. Allow support to function in team settings
a. Allow buffs to ignore DR (To a point)
b. Allow Mez granting shields to be a soft counter to holders/controllers
c. Heals shouldn’t suppress – only attacks should
2. Tweak the PvP damage modifiers so we don’t have the huge eyebrow raisers we have now (See Sharks and Flurry as examples)
3. I know some people are enjoying blasters not being as good in PvP as they once were, lets be honest they were gods. But they got hit pretty hard with the nerf bat and could use some love. Currently scrappers tanks brutes and stalkers are more viable than a blaster in most cases.



So post your ideas on things you like to see added or changed. Please try to keep "i12PvPplz" posts to a minimum.

[u]FAQ: [u]
Q: Empire, you just wrote a whole big wall of text that no one is going to read, what do you have to say for yourself?
A: Well, I was waiting for a PC to finish imaging so I wrote this up. Plus, as I have said before, I really enjoy hearing myself talk in my head.

Q: Empire, What is your goal of this post? Posts like this was started by people before they didn't get anywhere.
A: Well, The goal of this post isn't to change PvP into whatever wierd image I have in my head (Which if you're wondering, includes a brand enw AT that is an Emp/Kin/Storm/Sonic Tank blaster mastermind.) My goal is to hopefully have the developers read this post and have something in here spark a creative idea that they could implement. Most of the posts regarding PvP post i13 have had a negative connotation to them. Hopefully the mentality of looking forward instead of backwards will allow the developers to be more open about changes.

Those are all the questions I can think that I would get from this post.

The question they need to ask themselves is: Which crowd got more brutal with their attack on the developers decisions - The AE farming crowd, or the old PvP community?

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We'd prefer to lrn2PvP and then let people watch us.

The 2 stalkers/therm/emp/bubbler lineup is soooo much more open than the old PvP (jump, storm, disruption, etc) GG devs. At least they gave us MA to PL bubblers and crap we'd never play otherwise.

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Im sure we'll find something that counters it...I still the the all Dual blades lineup has merit.

<.< What? When the French navy tried to stalk(er) pirates during the 1600's they got [censored] and pillaged

Sounds like you should of had broadcast chat turned off.

Teaming up to kill someone in a PvP zone is not cheap - its called using the mechanics of the game.
Not saying you did anything wrong by leaving, but there are other options. You could of:
1. Gotten a friend to PvP with you and evened the odds
2. Done some shadow games and try to get them seperated, then attempt to get the kill on one of them.
3. Switched to a different toon that might have handled the 2v1 better. (only applicable if you had one).