I15/16 PvP suggestions


Aura_Familia

 

Posted

***Skip to the end if you want the readers digest version of my suggestions***

With the latest enhancements to the PvP system from i14, I felt it was time to write a new post requesting additional enhancements to the current system. Some might feel that this post is a waste of time and they might be right. I feel that if we aren’t happy with the way things currently are, the only real way we will see progress is to move forward with the system the developers like and try to find ways to make it work. To that end, I would hope that this post could be a good discussion forum for what changes we would like to add to the system that we have in place.

We have seen a lot of “Just go back to i12 PvP plz” posts, but those don’t really get anywhere. The current PvP system is very much engrained into the game by now and a rollback is probably not possible (Even if it was, the bugs from the rollback would cause major havoc and set the game back months). Ok, let’s get right to it:

[u]1. Tweaks to Mez Resistance:[u]
Preface - Currently, the system really limits the use of support based characters, namely Empaths, Kinetics, Pain domination, Thermal, and Sonic. While each of these sets offer other things aside from support – their core function is support. Doing something outside of sets core function is not bad, but if you are not fulfilling your function, you could be replaced by a better performing AT or set. Also, Sets that use offensive toggles - namely Rads, Storms, Dark sets (Miasma and Armor), and Willpower – are at a very large disadvantage compared to sets that don’t use offensive toggles. The changes that allow defensive toggles to stay on are great, it really adds to more dynamic fights that don’t end ‘as soon as you’re held.’ But the problem is that there isn’t balance between the sets that do toggle drop and those that don’t.

That said, here are some tweaks that I think might work.

-Set a Certain threshold for mez resistance (Say 200%) and Set a cap for resistance (Say 500%). If an AT is within this resistance barrier, that can’t be held. To counter this, each mezzing attack could reduce the mez resistance that a person has by 100%. Break frees would also grant 100% mez resistance for the duration of the Inspiration
Example: Team is Scrapper + Empath. Scrapper has his mez toggle on (100% resistance) and 4 CMs (400% resistance). They fight a team of 2 Controllers (Fire/Rads lets say)
Scrapper = 500% resistance. 2 controllers throw their holds once. These holds last for 4 seconds. The scrappers Resistance is now 300%. They throw their holds again, Now the resistance is down to 100% = Scrapper held

What this does is allow for the support to remain viable by equalizing the control heavy line up. This also doesn’t completely negate the controllers’ powers, because they can, in fact, get the scrapper held.

If that idea doesn’t fly with the vision of PvP, how about this:
-Set a certain threshold for mez resistance (Say 200%) If a person has 200% mez resistance, they will not drop offensive toggles. This again, allows for a support player to help keep ‘Offensive Toggle dependent’ Sets viable and productive in PvP.

[u]2. Tweaking of the Damage normalization to include more data. [u]
Preface – Currently, All damage is balanced around how long it takes to cast. In theory, this is an excellent idea because it balances the “Quick strike” tactics with the long casting attacks. The problem where this runs into is most noticed with blasters. Currently, Blaze does 185 damage base in PvP. Fire Blast (The tier 2 fire attack) does 170. A higher Tier attack that Recharges longer, takes more endurance, and has less range should do considerable more damage.

Here is how I would fix that:
Change the Equation that figures out PvP damage to include the following (In this order of importance):
Activation time
Tier level
Endurance (base)
Range (base)* (only used when comparing within a given set, IE comparing blaze to fire blast)
Recharge (base)
Primary/Secondary/epic/pool
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*********(Skip to the next line of asterisk if you don’t want to see a big wall of numbers)****************
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Activation time is very important because if you are rooted for a long time – you want your shot to mean something (think Shout from sonic blast). Lets take two examples – Bitter Ice Blast and Shout (The information below is taken from Mids):

Bitter Ice Blast – Base damage (Currently) 125
Activation Time – 1.07 sec
Endurance – 13
Rech – 12
Tier – 7

Shout – Base damage (currently) 208
Activation Time – 2.67 sec
Endurance - 11
Rech – 11
Tier – 5

Bitter Ice Blast is a later tier power, costs more endurance, and has a longer recharge time. Its damage should be comparable to shout because of these conditions. It should not exceed shout (Activation time is the most important part) but these other areas shouldn’t be ignored.

Taking the criteria I listed above for the new PvP damage, below are the multipliers I would use:
Activation time – Weight 5/5
Endurance (base) – weight 4/5
Range (base) – weight 4/5* (Only used when comparing within the set – gets messy when comparing outside the set)
Recharge (base) – weight 4/5
Primary/Secondary/epic/pool – Weight 4/3/2/1
Tier – Each tier level is given weight 5

So Bitter ice blast vs Shout
Activation time 1.07 – Weight 5 vs Activation 2.67 – Weight 5. Shout 250% more damage than Bitter Ice blast at Weight 5. (This caps at 100%)
Endurance 13 vs Endurance 11 – Bitter ice blast should do 18% more damage than Shout at weight 4
Range 50 Vs range 40 – Not Compared between two sets
Recharge - Bitter ice blast should do 10% more damage than Shout at weight 4
Primary vs Primary – Next out at 0%
Tier 7 vs Tier 5 – 40% more for Ice blast

100% - .8(18%) - .8(10%) – 40% = Shout should be 37.6% more damaging than Bitter Ice Blast. This would keep shout at 207, but increase Bitter Ice blast from 125 to 151 base.

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The math above might not be the best way to do things, but it keeps things balanced as they are without the huge disparities we are seeing in zones today (Spirit sharks doing more damage than a heavy hitting blaster primary power or Flurry doing more thank knockout blow).

[u]3. Increase DR thresholds for external buffs/set bonuses. [u]
Preface – Currently, DR hurts every AT in zones. Invul tanks have almost equal resistance to controllers who take their shield. SR scrappers find that their tier nine power only grants a small amount of extra defense. Shield inspirations aren’t used because they only give 1-2 points extra resistance.

The current DR restrictions are too severe. The DR thresholds, coupled with global resistance for squishy ATs leads to a lot of the same fights. You can almost guarantee in RV that all ATs will have at least 40% resistance to everything. Where this begins to show itself is if you have a tank with 40% resistance to everything, that means a whole lot more than a controller (who has a little HP cap compared to tanks with a large one). I may have the same resistance, but the tank has more HP, does more damage and the controls can’t mitigate the tank long enough to survive.

Suggestions: Allow external buffs to ignore DR thresholds. Example: If I play a sonic defender, currently my shields do almost nothing to another teammate. If the external buffs ignored DR, then you wouldn’t have an issue because there still would exist the PvE softcap that all ATs have. This encourages balanced teams - which fits thematically within the realm of superheroes and comics

4. Since Stalkers have some un-resisted damage at the moment, Give some un-resisted damage back to blasters
- 20% would be enough to allow a skilled blaster to beat a tank/brute AT

[u]***Readers Digest Area***[u]
1. Allow support to function in team settings
a. Allow buffs to ignore DR (To a point)
b. Allow Mez granting shields to be a soft counter to holders/controllers
c. Heals shouldn’t suppress – only attacks should
2. Tweak the PvP damage modifiers so we don’t have the huge eyebrow raisers we have now (See Sharks and Flurry as examples)
3. I know some people are enjoying blasters not being as good in PvP as they once were, lets be honest they were gods. But they got hit pretty hard with the nerf bat and could use some love. Currently scrappers tanks brutes and stalkers are more viable than a blaster in most cases.



So post your ideas on things you like to see added or changed. Please try to keep "i12PvPplz" posts to a minimum.

[u]FAQ: [u]
Q: Empire, you just wrote a whole big wall of text that no one is going to read, what do you have to say for yourself?
A: Well, I was waiting for a PC to finish imaging so I wrote this up. Plus, as I have said before, I really enjoy hearing myself talk in my head.

Q: Empire, What is your goal of this post? Posts like this was started by people before they didn't get anywhere.
A: Well, The goal of this post isn't to change PvP into whatever wierd image I have in my head (Which if you're wondering, includes a brand enw AT that is an Emp/Kin/Storm/Sonic Tank blaster mastermind.) My goal is to hopefully have the developers read this post and have something in here spark a creative idea that they could implement. Most of the posts regarding PvP post i13 have had a negative connotation to them. Hopefully the mentality of looking forward instead of backwards will allow the developers to be more open about changes.

Those are all the questions I can think that I would get from this post.


 

Posted

Not going to happen. The devs have pretty much said they are happy with pvp the way it is. Some of your suggestions just takes it back to issue 12 pvp.

With that said I'd be happy if they did some/all of these.


Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Not going to happen. The devs have pretty much said they are happy with pvp the way it is. Some of your suggestions just takes it back to issue 12 pvp.

With that said I'd be happy if they did some/all of these.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately this.


 

Posted

Good post.

Don't listen to the "not going to happen" responses even though it's probably…uh..not going to happen

Suggesting changes within the framework of the i14 changes is a good way to go.

I tend to leave the number crunching to other folks, but some of the changes you are suggested definitely have merit.

[u]MEZ Resistence[u] - Fact is they completely overhauled the way mez works in pvp, and I doubt even the devs think the implementation was flawless. Surely, with enough complaints/suggestions they will consider making adjustments.

[u]Damage Normalization[u] - See MEZ Resistence above.

[u]DR Threshholds[u] - See Damage Normalization above.

AND FOR GOODNESS SAKES, HEALS AND BUFFS SHOULD NOT TRIGGER SUPPRESSION. THAT IS ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!!!!


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not going to happen. The devs have pretty much said they are happy with pvp the way it is. Some of your suggestions just takes it back to issue 12 pvp.

With that said I'd be happy if they did some/all of these.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately this.

[/ QUOTE ]


"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict