Temporary option for the ladder

Okay plz think about this carefully before you decide if you like it or not. Your initial reaction will be "no, that's stupid." heck it was from my own team then after thinking about it they said "I still don't like it, but it could work."

I propose that we simulate a no gobal res scenario. Temporarily(until we get a no global res button) ban the +res sheilds from the epic powersets. OMG ban powers! I know it's not ideal BUT the res you would then have would be as if you did have the sheild. Instead you would just take another power in it's place. So just think about that for a min...
How would we enforce this? Well we would have to look at each others builds before a match starts.
Discuss...

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I do not like it.

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Not that my opinion matters, but I like it. If you've played at all in zones since I13, you know that it is much easier to get kills in sirens call compared to RV. All because not everybody is running around with ridiculous resists.

Many people were against banning veng too, but I doubt anybody considers that a bad decision at this point.

The problem is other shields, like defense epic shields. Do they get banned too? If not, doesn't that give an advantage to some people? Especially considering something like the ice shield, which also gives some res.

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So fail. If people dont want to spend the time working out teams to beat caped res i feel sorry for them. Coming from the red ladder pre i12 every team we faced and ran were at the res cap to all. finding out ways to get around that was not easy but not out of the reach of a slightly above average IQ person. (Read 110IQ)

Now we just dont need the 3-4 players buffing to keep the team at that high res. this in many ways opens up how many teams can have rosters and do matches. hell 6-8 people could have a team on the ladder now. more teams=good. where it was a small roster before if you could not do 8v8 internals.

I guess I'm lucky because my entire test view has been stalkers=team damage. double A/S=Holy Grail. Even when forts hit the scene i viewed them as more +res, +def +tohit from mind link and support damage to the 1-2 stalkers we still ran. So building teams around this idea is not a unheard of concept, or far from my line of thinking.

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A good point Syn. I think many just feel limited as to what they can feild. I mean, I have the same love of stalkers as you but right now you HAVE to bring them. Without that extra res you could still bring stalkers, but you could also bring blasters, or a sonic for the sheilds! Even a veat for MindLink would be viable again.

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I agree it would open up the team options but then we would have to up the team size again. Putting more buffers on a team would drop your damage output. right now the +res everyone gets acts like the 3 people that "would" be on the team making it that way.

*edit*

Also tell me that a 8v8 "mixed" ladder would not just be a 8v8 blue side ladder if stalkers are removed? Do we really want to go down that road again?

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We wouldn't *have* to up the teams. You would just have to choose.

You could do: 2 emp, 2 blaster, 1 therm
or 2 emp, 2 veat, 1 blast
dUmb could do 1 emp, 1 blast, maybe 3 storm corrs.
I dunno, I'd have to try it

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Yea there is kinda a catch 22. By removing the res, blasters take the place of the stalkers. Stalkers could still be viable but it would depend on how much res the other team pushes out.

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I'm all down for finding the happy center. I just have a problem going from one end of the spectrum to the other

The funny thing is the red side ladder was so diverse in the teams people brought but there was always stalkers for the damage. it was just the things around them that made it diverse.

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I tend to agree with many of the points brought up here, minus the love of stalkers. Ill try to bring this to the attention of the PE peeps but i think they will have the same F no reaction initially.

One thing I see problems with already is how would lolbrutes, scraps, resist based veats and heats be handled? and defense epics?

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Well def epics are debatable. I personally wouldn't have a prob allowing them because if say a blaster wants to sacrifice PFF for it, good. Or an emp takes it over PB, hey fine with me. As for scraps etc. They will have more res, as they SHOULD, so hey.. maybe they will be more viable too.

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Although limiting the selection of powers is not good, I would be for this.

My biggest problem with the current ladder is that stalkers are needed 100% of the time inorder to get consistant kills. If someone has a well known lineup that doesn't include stalkers, please post it. I spent a lot of time thinking about lineups that work - both prei12 and post i12. Here is what I see (Again, please tell me I am wrong and that I suck, because I really hope that is the case).

-With no unresisted debuffs, debuffing classes are basically worthless.
-Storms can't minus range people or hurt recharge because slows/range have a much higher cap than before.
-Rads net you 10% -resist for each EF and it would take you atleast two to break the resistance cap on some ATs.
-Cold benumb is mildly intriguing, but does it do enough to warrant a spot on a 5 person team where Defense is meaningless and -resist is meaningless?

I can think of several counters to the stalker teams, but that isn't my point really. The point is all the lineups I can think of really require 2 stalkers in order to be effective - and in a 5v5 lineup that's not very diverse. Am I supposed to run all tanks just so I can pray that we have a perfect spike sometime during the match?


Here is just a couple question to think about:

Would lineups change any if they added in an option to remove global resists?

Back in i8ish i9ish, The big complaint between hero vs villain was blaster damage and unresisted debuff. Now that the shoe is on the other foot (stalker damage and no unresisted debuffs), why do we think that these ATs can exist in the same ladder?




Do I want a seperate ladder? no I don't, but it just feels like we addressed this before (only it was heroes being Overpowered alot instead of Villains having the edge a little).

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-Cold benumb is mildly intriguing, but does it do enough to warrant a spot on a 5 person team where Defense is meaningless and -resist is meaningless?

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It does on paper at least. But then again, Thorny Assault is good on paper too...

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Just my two cents - but that really does not do a lot. With 40% base res a player can pop oranges to get res cap or get therm buffs or sonic buffs for res cap to most dmg. Add in ios % and you can still build or make a toon with pretty high res.

It might make sonics popular again or force the therms to take the sheilds. I dunno it seems like you can ban epics, but if I carry oranges or take IW and run capped psi res facing psi blasters i am still in the rules but capped on res.

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Yea but at least you have to DO something to get that res instead of having it auto.

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You will still have holes somewhere that the other team can capitalize on without using 2 AS's...

*edit*

This will be hard to enforce because most builds i would still take the epic just for set bonus'... and banning it like veng (can have in the build for set bonus' but not use it).... can you spot all the epic shields on sight?

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You will still have holes somewhere that the other team can capitalize on without using 2 AS's...

*edit*

This will be hard to enforce because most builds i would still take the epic just for set bonus'... and banning it like veng (can have in the build for set bonus' but not use it).... can you spot all the epic shields on sight?

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No, you would have to ban it from builds. Like I said, this is not ideal. Obviously the best option is to have a no res button. This was just an idea to play closer to that until/if it happens.

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No, you would have to ban it from builds.

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eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, thats a bit far imo, and I know there's no alternative, just saying.

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If we start baning unbroken powers I want nothing to do with it. Bugs i can see banning. Broken powers ie. Veng I can see being banned. Now a patron shield being banned because people want to play their old blue side ladder again...... Count me out.

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I'm still against it because it doesn't change a damn thing. You go from one side to the other. The only reason stalkers are popular is because they do the most reliable burst damage . Remove the bonus resistance and stalkers are replaced with blasters because blasters will do the most damage in that situation. And if you want to counter blasters, you have to give up ALOT to do that in 5v5s.

There is no enforcement either. Banning an unbroken power does nothing to help the situation.

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fight like tru warrior

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Just play with DR.

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Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit

Im all for making the ladder more viable (as i love playing my blasters) but banning unbroken powers is not the way to go. If not for the res i love my epic shields for the slotting. On some toons you cant get those type of slots anywhere else, but the epic shields, unless you take tough and weave.

Speaking of tough, what makes it different if someone just took tough instead of there epic shield. a difference of 5-10% res? Will this get banned to because of stacking resistance? I say no to all.

If the base res is such a problem and you want a solution until a button is made.

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Just play with DR

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Just play with DR.

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Problem with DR is heal decay. What's gonna beat a team of 5 Blasters?

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5 Moar Blasterz?

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