CoyoteShaman

I liked the pink. Very easy on my eyes. I use the blue/hero theme.

I have nothing of use to say about the ideas you presented, however.

As someone who would like to learn more about SD because I'm starting a new /SD, could folks please let us know what would turn it from a "sure it's nice but not nice enough to fit it in" power to a "I'm going to fit this in even at the expense of something else" power?

If you happen to consider Grant Invisibility a useful tool for your team, keep in mind that it automatically makes your pet immune to anything except AoE; the pet never attacks so it never gets noticed. It'll last as long as the Invis lasts or until it's unlucky enough to get AoE'd. Putting other defenses on top of that makes it even more survivable.

Pertaining to the idea that the books make States out to be more of a hero: I was under the impression that neither the comic books nor the novels were cannon and therefore we have to only consider that lore which is available in game. Since not all of us care to pay any attention to things outside the game, and since we're talking about a game, I would think that for the purposes of this kind of discussion we should do so anyway.

Pertaining to the difference between "getting rid of" and "retiring" him: Come on. When has anyone ever used the phrase "getting rid of" to mean "completely rewrite the entire lore while ommitting a single character and everything that character ever touched"? It always means "find a way to remove him from future events and from the ongoing story". In this case, there have been some ideas offered which would work perfectly as conversation starters at least so I won't be going there.

Pertaining to the idea of "he's a hero/he's not heroic": For my money this is a non-issue. The purpose of a game-setting is to give the players a setting in which to play. Duh. Any non-player-character should have an impact on the environment warrented by their purpose in the environment. Flavor NPCs like pedestrains have no effect on the environment; they just give the enemies an excuse to be present in public. Contact/Info NPCs have little impact on the environment; they keep enemies at bay while PCs get information from them which advances the story-line. The problem with Stateman and Recluse, IMHO, lies in my next point...

Pertaining to why any well-known or signature NPC should be removed from the ongoing story-line: As suggested above, the purpose of the game-setting is to give players a setting in which to play. The PCs should have the greatest impact on the environment. When the NPCs are all-powerful, individually or in a common collective, it makes the PCs needless. If States can knock out motherships with a single puch and lure away whole armadas in order to destroy them in a safe fashion, why the hell don't we just go for donuts? He's just standing around on that stupid boat in IP acting like he's our boss.

This goes back to the whole idea about feeling Heroic/Villainous. The new villain arc in Sharkshead made me remember why I like to play this game. I haven't had time to do the Hero-side of those new arcs, but I'm hoping it is similarly tailored to making the PC feel like they're the boss and the contact is working for them. As long as Statesman, and the rest of the Phalanx, is in Paragon and pretending to be in charge, all the PCs are just lackeys. The whole idea of super-heroes having to register with some super-powered government agency is ludicrous. I know they needed some way to have a framework for identities and levels and such, but it's time for the top of the pyramid to be removed so we can get out from under their shadows (that statue of Atlas is more symbolic than some people realize). I think GR could be the perfect excuse to do so, or at least to start the story-line process. Until Stateman and the FP are gone, however, I don't believe it will be possible to really make us heroes. Recluse and his group of lts aren't quite as bad for obvious reasons, and maybe removing States would free that side up as well, but I expect Rec/et. al. would have to go as well.

None of this has been a joke. I've been feeling this way for a long time now, which is why I haven't been playing as much. My RL political views make it difficult for me to get into the idea of a vast number of "super-heroes/villains" which willingly subject themselves to tyranical leaders and obviously counter-ethical orders (heroes committing horrendous acts of assault or b/e without any evidence to speak of and villains performing obviously generous and altruistic acts for no better reason than their "handlers" say so).

I'm not remotely suggesting "I'm leaving". I've been here for over five years now and I doubt I'll be leaving any time soon. I'm just expressing that I think the story-line has a serious whole in it which was put in place from the beginning and is expressed in the form of Stateman. Without removing that expression, the whole cannot be repaired.

Robin

I'd call you a suckup if I didn't love your name so much. Damn MonkeyBirds...

/signed

It would be very good business sense as well. Putting a limit as to how much a certain kind of customer (people who are server-loyal in this case) can spend on a particular product (character slots) isn't very smart.

I understand it's catering to a small subset of customers (server-loyal people with an ungodly ton of alts) but by definition it's a subset that is willing and wanting to spend money on an already existing product. It's silly to not exploit those customers, IMO.

Full disclosure: I don't have nearly that many toons but I am very server-loyal to Pinnacle. Eventually I'm likely to get there as I've already hit my current cap. I'm going to wind up buying some more slots soon (even though I should just delete some of the toons I don't play) and eventually I'll run out of room to buy more.

So very much to go into...

Whips: There's likely to be an assault set created before too long, or a melee set, or whatever, due to the Whips coming into play via the MMs for Demons.

Chainsaw: Aside from this being over-the-top cheesey, I think the idea of a set with -Regen as its secondary effect is brilliant. We really need one like that.

Toxic Blast: No opinions

Throwing: That's a joke, right? Hillarious! I especially like the patatoes!

Diseases: This is awesome! I would love to see this in game. It wouldn't be too hard to balance right either, I don't think. On the other hand, the idea of contagions might be very difficult to implement. The powers would have to have "Grant's power: Contagious" or something like that.

Metal Control: I'd think this would be too situational or too cheesey, sorry.

Time Control: Looks like you've done a great job of making a concept that would be either impossible or way over-powered into something quite reasonable. Very well done.

Obviously there would be a ton of balancing issues to address but that's the case in every new set concept. Over all I think these are very cool (or entertaining in the case of Throwing). Kudos.

"Intangibility" as a concept and "phase shift" as the game defines it are two different things and that is what I see as being the strength of this set concept. Unfortunately the desire to use phase shifting as the game has defined it so far seems to be causing a problem. The game defines both a positive and a negative effect from phase shifting for very good reasons. The idea in the game of being phase-shifted is not incremental; it's all or nothing. That means that if you're phase shifted you can't do anything to anyone who is not phased. The plus side is that you can't be hurt at all, the minus side is that you can't attack.

Intangibility as a concept, on the other hand, lets us move around those pluses and minuses in order to make an acceptable mix which plays to the concept while avoiding breaking the game in any way. One can be partially intangible.

Okay, now that I've repeated what everyone else has already said, I'll move on to actually making a point. Phase shift might be a neat thing in some ways, but it really isn't appropriate for a combat oriented AT defensive set. As has been mentioned, total defense is way over-powered. Hide is acceptable because it's not actually anywhere near total defense; defense is actually pretty limited for Hide but it makes you not get attacked in the first place. We can't really expect to hand that out to the other ATs because that would turn them into Stalkers after a fashion. Therefore, true Phase Shift should actually be left where it is: the level 20 power on the Concealment pool.

That doesn't mean, however, that some form of intangibility which mimics a limited form of Phase Shift shouldn't or couldn't be put into a set such as this. Let me try my hand at some modifications based on Steampunkette's version (which I think is the best up 'til now). When I list "As is" I mean exactly as the power of the same name as described by Steam.

1: Flicker -- Toggle/Self -- Minor +Def (All) -- By wrapping an extra-dimensional void around yourself, you cause yourself to "flicker" in and out of normal space which causes some attacks to pass through you without effect.

2: Immaterial -- As Is

3: Incorporeal Brawler -- Toggle/Self -- Moderate +Def (Melee), +Prot/Res (Knockback) -- Same concept as before, the reason for changing the effects is that I still think having two powers that do roughly the same thing makes one or the other a waste of endurance or makes them a waste of a power slot.

4: Shifter -- Click/Self (easily permed) -- +Mez/Status Prot/Res (Significant), +Def (Ranged) -- By partially stepping into the extra-dimensional void surrounding you, you are able to side-step those attacks which would limit your mobility or hinder your effectiveness.

5: Blink -- As Is

6: Ghost Touch -- If I understand Steampunkette's comment about the AoE Foe TP thing, she's suggesting something akin to a much smaller version of the Grav 'Troller's power. I think this should lose the chance to stun but gain a massive +Taunt. This power would have to be a high (!) endurance, long recharge power but I think the range could be a bit longer; 40' or 50' for instance. Oh, and also WANTWANTWANT NAO!

7: Uncertainty Principle (I absolutely LOVE this name) -- Toggle/PBAoE -- +Taunt, +Dmg (self)/-Dmg (target) -- Extending the Quantum irregularities caused by the extra-dimensional void you have wrapped around yourself, you skew the odds of combat in your favor and against your enemies (this power is similar in effect to the SD PBAoE taunt, I think)

8: Quantum Entanglement -- Scramble As Is except add a little end exchange as well. I just didn't like the name so much.

9: Eigen-State -- Click/PBAoE/Self -- High +Def (All/Self), High Mez/Status +Prot/Res (Self), -HP (Foe), +Stun (Foe), Standard "you're screwed" when duration is up -- You use your own body to cause a doorway to the extra-dimensional void to open. While this door is open you are nearly impossible to hit and any foes in your vacinity are buffeted by quantum irregularities which cause physical trauma and psychological stress. When the quantum state colapses, however, it takes most of you with it...

As you can see, there is no true phase shift in this and that's simply because I don't think that belongs in a melee defensive set. We've lost a small bit of the AoE defense. It's also going to be a bit more Endurance-heavy with the three toggles and a psuedo-perm click. It might be necessary to modify something to add in another auto instead. The problem is that the basic concept of the set makes auto powers problematic.

My thought on this whole thing, which is not likely to be implementable even remotely, is that the way endurance currently works makes no sense within the framework of the game. When you start out you have 100 edurance points. These act as a percentage of a total. Aside from gaining items such as accolades or IO sets, you have those same 100 endurance points at level 50.

That really makes no sense. They're not endurance points. They're a % of being completely rested. Yet you spend points on powers which remain static. If I've had a power for 30 levels, shouldn't I be better at using it? Not only should that power do more damage, but I should be much more efficient in its use. If the power costs me 5 points at level 1, shouldn't it maybe cost me 3 at level 30? 2 at level 50? This would make it important for people to be careful about when they select different powers. The earlier you take those end-heavy powers, the harder it is on you at first but the lower they'll cost later on.

Alternatively, if the endurance cost of a power doesn't change, then shouldn't we be getting more endurance to spend? That would also show how we're getting more efficient in our power use. We do more damage, the enemies do more damage, so we get more hit points. That's "health". Health could just as well be shown as a % of total, too, but it's not because it doesn't make sense given the way the game works. The same is no less true of endurance. It doesn't make sense to have it as a % of total.

By changing endurance to actually make sense within the framework of the game, it would really solve all these other questions altogether. Rest, recovery, Stamina, etc. would all fit within the framework in exactly the same way the health issues currently do. You don't hear anyone complaining about regeneration, do you? I know I don't. Why? Because as you go up in level you get more health points. Lower level attacks do less damage relative to the total number of points you have, as befits a more healthy hero/villain. You've learned how to take more damage by going up in levels. It's foolishly illogical to think of endurance in any other way.

</rant>

The real thing here is to just fix that damn button. Or even remove it. Putting the button there for more than a year now (crap, has been that long???) when it's never worked right is ridiculous. They need to fix it or remove it.

Have they even said why that one doesn't work when the selection screen button works fine? That's just silly.

I would think that having a primary with attacks and then a secondary with massive attacks (pets) would be way over powered unless the pets were massively gimped. In any case the toon would faceplant almost instantly since he would be doing the most damage and would have zero defense/resists.

UNLESS that inherent you're talking about were the survival form. Not a bodyguards type but maybe a direct defense/resist based on number of pets nearby. 3%/minion, 5%/lt and 7%/boss would make 22% defense total at max. That would at level 35, however, and that's a long time to wait for any real defense. Plus as soon as your pets started dying off not only would you be getting more agro but your def would be dropping.

No, I just can't see any way this would be at all survivable. Not yet, anyway.

Lemme see if I understand this "survival" concept (regardless of name). As Assault is ranged/melee damage, this would be personal/team defense? I love the idea of adding personal defense to a team defense set and having it coupled with an assault-style set would definitely make the AT very rounded and thematically easy to play, but where's the weakness? Being too well-rounded makes it difficult to find a reason to play anything else. In this case there would be a ton of these, some controllers and some masterminds running around, and everyone else would be playing others based on simple personal preference for the concept.

Then again, it's already that way between tanks/scraps/brutes/stalkers. This kind of AT would not really replace the tank/scrap because it would be too personally fragile but could certainly support them, while it also wouldn't replace defenders because it wouldn't be as good or versatile on a team, but again it could certainly support them.

I'll be damned, you've come up with an AT suggestion I'd actually support, assuming the right theme/inherent.

Towards that end, I'd recommend a strong leaning towards support along the conceptual lines of the peacebringer/warshade: this AT fills in weakspots and bolsters strengths of their team. Calling it a Coordinator seems kinda lame, but whatever. An appropriate inherent might be called "Survival" and give them perhaps a different bonus based on the team makeup.

Or something.

Actually I think you just hit the big draw for this: soloing.

The problem here is that it's actually either a massive replacement for the scrapper or a weak shadow of a scrappper. The only difference between ranged attacks and melee attacks is that ranged attacks have range. At 7' they're the same. At 20' the melee attacks are useless. Therefore the ranged attacks trump. The secondaries are the same as scraps. The only differences between a scrapper and this AT would be that this one has the advantage of range and any power levels.

That means if the damage/defense was roughly equal or slightly lower this AT would replace the scrapper. If the damage/defense was quite a bit lower then this AT would be useless.

In order to determine viable ATs, one has to look not at the specifics of anticipated power sets, but instead at the purpose of the sets. There are really only 4 purposes of sets: Damage, Defense, Control, Multipliers. Right now Tanks and Scraps are only seperated by the power levels of their Damage and Defense (Health points are part of defense, really). The same goes for Stalkers and Brutes. When GR hits, the overlaps are going to also include Defenders and Corruptors as well as the Stalker/Brute/Tank/Scrap problem. Throwing another Damage/Defense into the mix is really going to make a bad thing worse.

If any new ATs do come into being I suggest you watch for new combinations of those four basic power types. Right now we have a ton of Damage/Defense, three Multiplier/Damage (Def/Cor/MM), one Control/Multiplier, one Control/Damage, and a Damage/Damage (which to my mind is kind of silly, really).

What we don't have is Defense/Control (might not suck), Defense/Multiplier (would be impossible to solo and mostly worthless on a team), and the other three duplicates of Defense/Defense (even worse than Defense/Multiplier), Control/Control (way overpowered, really), and Multiplier/Multipler (either way underpowered or way overpowered depending on the situation).

I'd probably play a Defense/Control, but none of the other options really make sense. Without a massive level of theme/concept/inherent uniqueness, no copy of what's already available is going to be feasible.

My thoughts.

This would make this a whole new game. The possibilities are completely endless. I absolutely love this basic idea.

After a fashion it's akin to automatic access to the paper missions; you don't have to actually go into the paper/radio to get the mission but instead just happen upon suspicious behavior. You know, even though I have no reason to believe this will ever happen I'm still excited by the possibility.

Cops

I think he was talking about a secondary base system, not a replacement. There's no reason to think he was saying "you guys shouldn't have your neat stuff 'cuz we want easier stuff". Quite the contrary, I'm pretty sure he was saying "these guys that want the neat stuff have really neat stuff. Can we who want easy stuff maybe catch a break too?"