Captain-Electric
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:A super rabbit pulling tricks out of a hat with Gravity's propel power.Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
And a little bit more of levity...
*Pauses*
*Thinks*
*Opens mouth*
*Closes mouth*
You know, this thread may continue on if it likes, but it will never do better than this.
Your unnumbered motto is always the #1 rule on my teams.Quote:Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy
1. Listen to the instructions given by whover is leading so we actually succed and reap the rewards at the end.
2. Plays to the best of his or her ability
Other than that.. my motto is have fun.
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Quote:Well, you're obviously not included in the "Many people..." he's arguing with, such as DarkGob, Hyperstrike, Organica and others who've said literally or to paraphrase, "Good grief, really?" to the entire debate, for whom one word is not worth this voluminous discussion (you folks would love the PhrontisteryOriginally Posted by Electric-Knight
Hehe, a somewhat fair summary of things, except that it completely goes against the fact that I happen to be someone who cares a great deal about words and proper usage and such as well...
I am also someone who holds a great deal of depth, importance and seriousness with my characters.
The fact is that I do tend to use the term "character" for my characters (if I were referring to them in such a manner)... However, I also use "toon", including in actual verbal/spoken usage.
The real difference is in the thinking that "toon" is somehow a trivial, incorrect, childish, uncaring or -whatever else anyone wants to paint it as- term.
I don't see it as that and it is not because I don't care much about such things as being well spoken or the correct usage of a language.
I simply see it as an appropriate and acceptable term.
So, perhaps there is some other difference that we could find if we dig deep enough.
). And though I'm inclined to agree with them, I do hold my own usage to higher standards.
Electric-Knight, part of what we're seeing here is a transition from "Happy" to "Happy", 1950s style, if you know what I mean. It's incredibly amusing, enlightening and frustrating all at the same time, to hear you say that "toon" is perfectly acceptable and not derogatory at all to you, when my experience (again, playing MMORPGs since November 1997) supplies me with a history of the term that speaks otherwise, very much so. But this would not be the first time that people have taken a derogatory slang term and worn it proudly on their sleeve, only to see its original implication eroded by doing so. I imagine that "Toon", for you, is a very innocent and colorful word. Good for you, and I mean that, too; I don't think this is the worst thing that has ever happened to modern language. (It's still a silly, childish word to me, and my characters are too good for it. LOLOLOL. )
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Quote:I think it's giving them undue credit to call them "supporters." The reason that people like me and you don't use "toon" or other sillyspeak is because we think about words and their meaningfulness, maybe a little too much. Many of the people you're arguing with Just Don't Care, and that's not the same thing as Support. Not in the apathetic sense, but in a more practical sense that I don't think I'd have the heart to wage war on them for. If a spoon was closer than a fork for their eggs, they'd probably just grab the spoon. Special people like me and you go looking for the fork. Who's more of a nutcase? Like you, I've never used "toon", and I've been playing MMORPGs since November of 1997. The only difference between us is, I only hold myself to my standards, whereas you appear to lord yours over everyone else. The problem with doing that is, you'll begin to veer away from Blueside territory into Coleside territory, if you know what I mean.Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell
In large part, the supporters of the term have been arguing here not that they have any particular love for "toon" itself, but rather that they use it out of convenience because it's easier, shorter and more expedient than the alternatives. They're using it for the same reason you'd use "Mr." instead of "Mister."
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This really upsets me, because I enjoy hearing developers talk about what's on their sandwiches, or hats. I like it when they put hats on sandwiches, but is that, like, anthropomorphism (oh goodness no), or do we need a totally new term? You guys talk about the game too much. COME ON, IT'S JUST A GAME.
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Quote:Always glad to see a like-minded player when it comes to this. We are too few and far between! I'm lucky enough to have not one, but two, demigods on my roster. And, really, that's probably enough for me anyway, since I tend to keep all my characters spread out and doing different things. Seeven years worth of content didn't disappear for me when the trials were introduced.Originally Posted by Winterminal
That said, I have only one character who will be progressing through all the Incarnate powers, taking and using a T3 or T4 of every ability, because he is my one "phenomenally cosmically powered" being. With the rest, I have self-imposed restrictions on them that they will not break simply because it would clash with their story. Not every comic book character will contend with the biggest threats, and mine are no different. They may take on the minions of the big threats, but not necessarily the head honcho.. (In the two years since I subscribed, this has kept things fresh for me, and when I hear people complain about boredom or stagnation, I almost always find that they are grinding the same content over and over, if I ask.) When Incarnate powers were first announced, there was also a third idea I had for an ascended intelligence via technological means (my most favorite idea of all), but that was before I knew the Incarnates game-lore was designed to prevent players from coming up with their own godlike origin stories (or I should say, "...designed in a way that prevented...", because I know Paragon Studios had good intentions, but still. ) No post-human robot Captain-Electric from the future for me! Arg, arrrr!
(I'm not sure why that ended with a pirate...) -
Quote:Originally Posted by DarkGob
comics are basically cartoonsQuote:Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
This strikes me as true only in a superficial way, ignoring decades of cultural history behind both "cartoons" and superhero comics.Quote:Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
Except that to the best of my knowledge, in the entire history of superhero comic books prior to the MMO age, characters were never called toons by readers, fans, writers, artists, or editors.After the first page, as happens, this discussion spiraled down into the tired realm of semantics. But against my better judgement, I will add that it's an unfair tactic to argue that something has earned cartoon status or become a cartoon after being portrayed by a cartoon show. As a comic book reader who also keeps up with my favorite authors and artists through articles and interviews, I can assure you that comic book authors and artists do not think of their heroes and villains as cartoons. (Though I'm sure with enough legwork, someone here could Google for an exception to the rule, and display it as if it were the rule. At page 5 in the thread, it is about time for such behavior to emerge.Quote:Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
BULL SCHNITZEL!)
Now, it is a different story for the producers, artists and writers at television networks who pay license fees to use those comic book characters as cartoon characters in their television properties. But these are entirely separate entities, and the difference merits some acknowledgement in this completely titillating debate over semantics.
If I may interject some Reason (capital R) into the debate, this oh-so-important debate--before it scrolls into oblivion in a day or two--you gotta know, "toon" isn't going away, and in fact we should all expect its usage to grow. I've never used the term; well, never used it to describe my characters anyway (*elite snicker*, no, I jest, I jest. Maybe.) But I've got two eyes and a brain, so I can see how it's an easy-to-type word, with a kind of slang sound to it. People are gonna use it. No big surprise. This is a big world, with lots of different folks, with lots of different perspectives. And that's just Primal Earth! Har, har. Live alongside them, or lrn 2 enjoy ur headaches. -
I laughed.
What's sad is how likely a scenario this would be if Paragon City were real.
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Quote:This part of Praetorian Earth's situation has always kind of reminded me of the iron-fisted rule that safeguards the Empire of Man in the universe of Warhammer 40,000. Always just near the edge of extinction at the hands of its enemies both within and without, priorities are quite different from what most free citizens take for granted in real life. In that fictional universe, mankind cannot afford luxuries like individual freedoms, because even stray thoughts damn entire worlds, and thought police are everywhere.Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
The alternative is to have the world devoured by the Hamidon. At least with tyranny, people get to live, amirite?
It also makes me think about one of my favorite science fiction shows, the remake of Battlestar Galactica. It seems like every time the fleet--which is what remained of humankind--resisted the urge to remove civil liberties for the sake of safety over freedom, their enemies took advantage of any resulting vulnerabilities (which were always numerous), and the consequences were always grim.
Science fiction is an excellent medium for cautionary tales, and most avid science fiction readers can tell who Going Rogue's writers gleaned some of their inspiration from. Writers like Philip K. Dick and Isaac Asimov probably would have approved highly of its overall theme. Individual freedoms are deemed inalienable rights and entitlements as a matter of principle; but the fact of the matter is that if things got truly messed up (like a superior alien civilization invading our own), our saviors--if we had any--might not be relatable from the perspective of any kindhearted person. -
Quote:A very well-written summary of the term's likely history (and its evolving usage-- physical age is probably a big factor, if a bit overlooked).Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
Actually...
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Quote:"Twink" actually evolved out of an earlier meaning...or possibly one that existed simultaneously, for a while, with the meaning you described. Back in the first couple of years of Ultima Online*, in my circles (which were rather populousOriginally Posted by Ultimus
The term toon first emerged in late 2001 early 2002 in a game called Everquest. I played Ultima Online from when it first came out (Which was the "first" MMORPG, see the quotations) and that was never used there.
When Everquest came out it emerged as what paved the way for all the other MMORPG's out there. There were several terms flying around at the time:
Character or char to describe your character
Main to describe your primary character
Twink which was your alt character that you decked out with gear
Avatar (Not really used) to describe a character.
The prominent word of choice was character back in the day but somewhere along the way new players to the MMORPG's started using toon which was much shorter.
Ultimately, you can tell how "old school" a MMORPG player is by whether they use character (Like I do) or if they use toon.), a "twink" was a newbie character that had been "twinked"--given high level gear, or large amounts of gold, reagents or other resources--by a veteran player seeking to "help" them get started in the game. It was a derogatory term, aimed more at the "helper" than the twink--because it did not take long for more rational minds to discover that removing all sense of challenge or reward from the game did nothing to help anyone, and twinks often became bored and left the game as a consequence.
This, of course, remains one of the surest ways to undermine retention in most MMORPGs, so it's a shame that this other meaning for "twink" has been forgotten and replaced. A nice shorthand term for this problem seems worthwhile, but this late in the genre, I don't expect to ever see one.
More on topic, I've never used the word "toon". I don't mind so much when others do (it's a free country where I live), but it's a little too simplistic-sounding for me, considering all the mental energy I put into creating stories and personalities for my characters. In other MMOs, I've often used the term "character" ("char" in a pinch). But strangely enough, owing to my own quirkiness, even that can feel too far beyond the fourth wall in City of X, so I lean on terms like hero, villain, or simply referring to my characters by name.
One benefit of such a customizable MMO is that my characters are all individually very recognizable (as opposed to the amorphous walking coat-racks of gear you meet in typical fantasy MMOs). So, when I refer to my characters by name, my friends always know who I'm talking about. In fact, regular teammates often express a preference for playing with particular characters of mine, based not on game mechanics, but on themes (or in some cases, the personality with which I RP them). Likewise, I have found myself expressing preferences for certain characters owned by my friends. I haven't seen this happen much in any other MMO. What an interesting dynamic!
*Judging by this thread, we seem to be allowed to mention other MMORPGs now...? -
There's a fetish for bubbly goo people?
No, I didn't know. But I kind of did know, too, because if there's one one thing the Internet has taught me, it's that there's a fetish for every person and there's a person for every fetish. Something I can never unlearn.
I liked the goo person, but he had his season. I like the silver proto-person too. Stop living in the past, people! The silver proto-person's time has come, and not a moment too soon, with the Battalion upon our blue marble's horizon (*COUGH*)! -
If you want an author who takes his work and his stories seriously, look up @Neon Rider. His work is all canon-based but he has also worked some of his own villain groups and arch villains into his evolving mythology. I've been exploring player-made arcs since the get-go, and I've seen many one-hit wonders. Neon Rider's collection has been a rare find--his stuff is intelligent and entertaining every single time.
And Zamuel and Dug are correct about using MA forum resources (and don't forget review sites and blogs); if you're using the MA's search filters to find good stories to play, you're doing it wrong.
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Get well soon VK!
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Quote:Is there any chance in Hades of getting a red name's feedback on this? This being a comic book super hero MMORPG, I've got to say that if this is true, it's got to be my first big disappointment in the game. This game is supposed to be all about freedom of choice, so what lore writer decided it would be a great idea for none of our comic book inspired super heroes to have secret identities? And why did no one at the studio stop them and say, "Hey, that's not a great idea you've got there"?Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Given that superheroes in Paragon are all licensed and registered with the city, nobody, as I understand it, has a secret identity, at least according to the game lore.
Not all of my characters keep their identities secret, but comic books are full of stories about the consequences that some super heroes have faced after going public--including stories about everyone in their family ending up dead in a matter of days (or hours). Most importantly, there's the less-fictitious matter of thousands of subscribers not being able to enjoy tradition, that is if they want to adhere to the studio's lore.
Ever since I subscribed, I have made the effort to nestle my characters firmly into the game's lore, but...wow. I can't do it this time.
(Edit/P.S. If you're saying that our characters must register with the FBSA but that other government branches and/or the public aren't privy to that information, then silly me.
That is not an unheard-of situation in comic book universes, and I'm not worried about the FBSA backstabbing any of my characters. Tony Stark caught a lot of flack for his superhuman registration thing, but if "going public" wasn't so "public", and if such a system had been set up over 70 years ago, I guess we'd all be used to it by now.)
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Point cards would be great gifts, I fully agree. My roommate is also a subscriber, so he'd have gotten one.
But I'm sorry to say, if it had come down to a choice between Paragon Point cards and Steam wishlist gifts (at the last minute, as things go), Steam still would have gotten most of my money. My City of X friends live in other states and countries. I want to be able to log on and gift something from someone's Paragon Market wishlist, direct to their account.
One of my in-game friends makes the best AE arcs--seriously, the guy should be writing comics. I have offered to pay for half of a five-slot package, and he is having to go through the whole rigamarole of setting up a PayPal account just so I can send him ten bucks. -
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I would have gifted Paragon Points to at least three in-game friends, instead I bought them stuff on their Steam wish lists. Please understand I'm not saying this to rub the devs faces in it, but I feel like the game probably missed out on some decent revenue this holiday season.
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I wonder if the Coming Storm is going to be a conflagration of events, all which threaten the world and against which humanity's resources may be spread too thin when the Battalion attacks.
Sounds more like a "perfect storm", given the frequency and variety of seemingly unrelated hints, all which point toward this very crucial point in time.
I'm probably wrong (I haven't played as far along in the story as many of you), but my gut has long told me the Coming Storm isn't just one thing. -
I have to get ready for work, but I'm very happy to see that there's a boatload of advice waiting for me when I get back tonight. I really do want to enjoy myself more here, and hopefully, some others have found this thread useful too.
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Pattern Walker and Chyll, those are some very memorable and haunting bits of writing.
Whatever Galaxy's echo means to you, I'm most impressed by the way some people take these open ends and tie them together with some very strong imaginative knots. -
So, I've begun to notice, the forums are kind of like gamma rays and Superadine for me. Seriously. In-game and IRL, I'm one of the most easy-going, diplomatic guys around. Something along the lines of this prank would be an instant laugh. But on the forums, I take things seriously, get rubbed the wrong way, argue to defend points (and counter-points, and counter-counter-points) that I don't even care about, and don't think about outside of those arguments. My sarcasm detector malfunctions, my sense of humor and even my personality seemingly become mutated and warped. Like, to the point where I get uncharacteristically blunt (apologies for that). And, really, I'm just getting started posting around here. Being a superpowered hero in real life*, I can't allow this to be the way I interact with people.
Sometimes, I think it's not just me. Sometimes I'll make a comment, and someone will nitpick a barely-related aside, and then everyone will spiral into a shouting match over it, or at least start popping popcorn. Okay, that's obviously not just me. But later, I'll realize I'm not even sure I gave my own points enough thought to agree with them, let alone the points of anyone else. That is definitely just me. I hope. For all our sakes. Anyway, I have no explanation for this other than chalking it up to me being really bad at Internet forums. In the past two years since I subscribed, these forums have increasingly represented my only significantly negative experience with City of Heroes. The less I lurk, the more I post and interact, the more negative my experience is. Why use a service that you don't find enjoyable? In the past few days, I have deleted several posts right after making them, just to avoid discovering myself in the middle of another petty quibbling match.
The most obvious solution is to stop posting, which should be OK by me, and you; I haven't really become entrenched or useful around here yet. I could just follow those whose posts I enjoy, much like I always have. The less-obvious solution is to change the way I post and interact. Being a super-powered, world-famous genius, I've learned to respect the scientific method, which is all about falling on your face a lot and only being right sometimes.
Making this thread is kind of selfish: it's a public reminder to myself, to avoid reactionary posting in threads (feel free to link me to it). But I'm also hoping to hear advice or stories from fellow "newbies", or Veterans. Some people around here truly impress me, because of their ability to avoid the tastiest troll bait, or to trim the fat and cut straight to the chase while maintaining civility. Really, that is all I ever want to do when I communicate textually; but time and time again in this environment, I let myself down.
*I'm not really a superpowered hero in real life. -
Quote:I had to read the thread for a bit before I figured it out.Originally Posted by TonyV
Heh, good one, Zombie. Looks like you had some people going for a minute there.
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You do not have to spend tokens in order to be awarded badges. And badges are now awarded monthly, not tri-monthly. I should know, I still have seven unspent tokens, and I'm only a two-year veteran. Every month, I receive my monthly badge, whether or not I've spent a token.
Also, I am actually ahead of where I should be, because I have uploaded extra $15 payments to the Market, twice, almost three times now. My experience shows that it is apparently cumulative, and keeps track of your spending. So I guess, spending more money makes you a time-traveler, as far as the monthly badges are concerned (excluding yearly badges, which are absolutely tied to time spent subscribed).
There are a lot of complaints on the boards from people who never get their points, badges and tokens on time. I do get all of my rewards on time, every time, ever since I stumbled into this game. And I can't be the only one. So, trust me when I say the entire program isn't broken, and I encourage anyone with problems to contact a GM. Be patient in working with them. Allotment errors can be fixed (as I've seen happen with friends), but problems sometimes need to be escalated up the customer service chain and discussed with multiple GMs. Keep your cool, and work WITH them, not AGAINST them. Customer Service probably doesn't know you from Adam, and unscrupulous players DO try to take advantage of the complaint resolution process. -
Quote:I have a big friends list and never saw a mass exodus either, but I also didn't make friends with those FILTHY AE BABIES!!!Originally Posted by Tyger42
I haven't seen any "loss of a great many players". Several folks on your friends list, maybe. But that's not an accurate sampling of overall figures.
Sorry... lost my composure there.
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Oh, fine, I'll explain. I feel kind of guilty, now. But when Dark Gob replied to my post about exploits, I wondered for a moment how impressed he'd be if Paragon Studios adopted a similarly callous and apathetic attitude. "Why bother to plug these holes, it's all just a joke." Seriously? Ever hear of a work ethic?
I'm not invested in PvP in CoH at all, but it's massively underdeveloped. It just is. No one argues this. Not the devs, not the players. I don't PvP, I don't personally lose sleep over this, but it's underdeveloped. How is this an insult? "The sky is blue." I think you misunderstood me, because I wasn't insulting anybody. Still, it's there. Players use it, so exploits need to be plugged when they're discovered. I was responding to Dark Gob saying "PvP is a joke," which was really unrelated to my point. I was basically saying, "Yes, but all of that aside..." And, Samuel, you completely ignored the person who did insult PvP. Dark Gob.
And regarding my alleged slander (which it wasn't), if someone complains that a mechanic has been turned into a joke, and if it's a joke that was begged for by the community, I'm not going to march on the studio's lawn with a pitchfork. I got here in 2009 and I can't believe all of these easy win features were their ideas to begin with. Take some responsibility for all the easy win features we've been generously consoled with over the years, with respect to this terribly challenging MMORPG.
There. I explained myself on the Internet again. Good night.