Antigonus

I'm with you. It took all of two days to get completely fed up with farms, so I made my own. It's the one in my sig. Give it a whirl.

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Empathy seems to work pretty well..but only because any time the NPC use any of the available powers, it's helping.

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See! The devs really do love Healers!

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after reading this thread Ive decided to make a scrapper named Fight Clubbin with air sup, kick and flurry.

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Ironically, back in issue 11 I made a Scrapper like that just for fun. After 15 levels he wasn't fun anymore, just annoying, and got deleted. Now I almost wish I'd kept him

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This has been puzzling me for awhile. I checked out the numbers on test and city of data and the patch notes and the hurricane -tohit debuff numbers haven't changed. It's still base -37.5% for defenders and -30% for controllers.

So what exactly are you guys seeing here that I'm not?

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Those numbers weren't taking into acount DR. DR was killing the debuff portion in I13 making it useless.

AE System
--------
Welcome to Architect Entertainment -- Neutral
Death for Dollars! -- Neutral
Bare Knuckles of Rage (9304)
*

Character/Supergroup Origins
--------
Birth of a Fossil -- Heroic
Secret Origins(Tech) The Snake Women of Epsilon V (42221) - Heroic
*

Classic Super-Hero/Super-Villain
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THE BOMBER --- Heroic --- 16607
*

Comedy
--------
The Extadine Lab -- Heroic
MacGuffin Delivery Service (1567) -- Villainous
ParaCon -- Heroic
The new and improved Lord Recluse Strike Force -- Villainous (though I wouldn't recommend against a hero )
The Fire Bunnies - Neutral, They are only bunnies after all...
You Say It's Your Birthday! (3630) - Neutral
Trademark Infringement -- Heroic (2220)
Hail to the King Neutral (34640)
*

Comedy/Drama
--------
A Super Team is Born -- Heroic
Attack of the Space Clowns (18749) -- Neutral
Cause of How Some Silly Stealed My Wings #1481 -- Neutral
How to Survive a Robot Uprising -- Heroic (12669)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare -- Neutral
It's a Nice Day for a White Wedding (9059) -- Neutral
TURG FICTION: Ghost in the Machine, Act I - Heroic (althoughs romantic villains could try this too )
Rum Runners of Bloody Bay (3691) - Heroic
Have a Blap, Blap, Blappy Day Kids! (2019)
*

Crime/Gangs
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The Bravuran Jobs -- Villainous (16809)
The Monstrous Regiment of Lesbian Hellions -- Heroic (27178)
Win the 2009 Freak-Lympics (2150) - Villainous
Ninja Crimewave! (2142) - Heroic
Whitehawks (Arc 49364) -- Heroic
*

Drama
--------
The Fan Club -- Heroic
*

Global Domination
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Axis and Allies -- Villainous (10597)
*

Heist
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Celebrity Kidnapping -- Villainous (20161)
*

Historical (Realistic)
--------
*

Historical (CoH Lore)
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The War on Superadine - The Regulators in their 1980's drug war (Heroic) (Arc 7959)
*

Holiday
--------
*

Horror
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Dark Dreams (3615)
The Amulet of J'gara (1709) -- Heroic
Project: Perilous - Into the Chthonian Pit (#3586) - Neutral (Unless you happen to be a mad cultist, in which case, go nuts!)
Small Fears -- Heroic
*

Large-Scale Crisis
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A Hero's Halo -- Heroic
This Is War, Part I - the Revenge of Hro'Dtohz -- Neutral
Win the Past, Own the Future - Heroic
*

Magic
--------
The Magical Miss Fitz (5079) -- Heroic
Chains of Blood (5492) -- Heroic
*

Military
--------
Redoubt Operations #1: Fires over Kalago -- Heroic
Red Storm Rising (Arc 4912) -- Heroic
Whitehawks (Arc 49364) -- Heroic


*
Misc. Adventure
--------
The Portal Bandits (3326) -- Heroic
*

Mystery
--------
Blowback (18575) -- Heroic
Dream Paper -- Heroic (13030)
Dream Paper 2: Restless Sleep -- Heroic (16797)
Dream Paper 3: Broken Dreams -- Heroic (13064)
*

Mythology
--------
Anactoria's Descent Into the Underworld -- Villainous
The War of Fate: Betrayal (19698) -- Neutral
The Seelie War -- Heroic
The Unseelie War -- Villainous
Tales of Cimerora, volume 1 : Of feathers and fur -- Heroic
The Aegis Affair - Heroic
Witches and Warriors (49594)- Heroic
*

Nemesis Plots
--------
Brass Reaver: Part 1 -- Neutral
*

Player-Chosen Outcome
--------
Hunting the Dark Dragon -- Heroic
*

Sci-Fi
--------
Adventures of the Space Marines -- Neutral
Adventures of the Space Marines 2 -- Neutral
Netrunner -- Heroic (14434)
Above Mars - Part 1: The Wellington -- Neutral (13215)
The Final Nemesis
*

Un-themed Survival/AV/Time Challenges
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The Meatgrinder -- Neutral
*

Just finished my arc and putting it up for review.


'Hail to the King'
Arc # 34640
Length: Long, but not really.
Missions: 3 relatively short.

Description: Strange sightings at a local casino are brought to your attention. Gangsters, aliens and celebrity impersonators make for strange bedfellows.

Welcome to PvP.

1.) Mids Hero and Villain Designer is the best current program for figuring out builds. It is still kinda wonky on PvP numbers, but it's really good for just figuring out what to take and when.

2.) SS/WP can be alright for Brutes, but unless you have an amazing gift for PvP it's not going to shine. Concentrate on +damage, +HP and + recharge. Personally, I wouldn't bother with trying to squeeze defense out of it because it won't be enough. Make the most of Knock Out Blow as that is your big gun. It has a hold and a KB component to it that is really useful for getting people to stick around long enough for a second attack.

The biggest obstacle you will face is range, or rather a lack of it. Not really a whole lot you can do about that since you are bringing fists to a gun fight. Taunt has a -range component that can help slow the bleeding from ranged opponents, but most people will just run till it wears off, then come back and shoot you some more. At 41 you can take Black Scorpion Patron that will get you webmace to help keep people in range somewhat.

And don't get upset when people use inspirations. Inspirations are still the most effective balancing mechanic the devs have introduced. Just remember that the more they pop, the faster they will run out. When that happens, they are easier to beat.

Yes, some villains have different caps. I don't know the exact numbers, but VEATs have higher caps than villains that aren't Stalkers.

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I am looking to try my hand at PVP. I would like a melee character (Tank,Scrap, or Brute). Doesn't really matter if it is red or blue side. I wanna stay away from anything that is just FoTM. I would like something that is good (doesn't have to be great)

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Generally speaking, if something is FoTM, it is because it is good. In some cases, such as some current defensive builds, it is good because of a broken mechanic, but in many cases it's just all around good. Don't take this the wrong way, but by saying you don't want a FoTM build, you are basically saying you don't want something that's good. For somebody that is just getting into PvP, I would actually recommend playing one of those good FoTM builds so you can get a feel for what PvP is without getting too discouraged by a subpar build. Few things will chase a new PvPer away than feeling totally useless due to a weak build. Get your feet wet first on something that is proven, then work on something that is a challenge.

With that being said, some good melee builds:

Ice/Super Strength Tank (nerfed in I14, but probably still good)
Fire/SS Tank
Spine/ SR Scrapper (heavily nerfed in I14)
Spine/Regen Scrapper
Super Strength/ Fire Brute
SS/ EA Brute (yeah, nerfed in I14)

If you aren't totally against Stalkers, then Spine/ SR and Spine/ Nin are both very good right now. Both will take a good hit when I14 drops but they will probably still be good. I haven't tested those to say for sure.

If you decide to go with something different, that's cool too. I would avoid Stone Armor, Duel Blades, and Claws at all costs as those are just not good sets for PvP right now.

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So Corruptors such then I guess heh..? Everyone mentioning only blasters and all ..

/Sarcasm

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Corruptors pretty much do suck now if you aren't Elec/Therm. For ranged damage Forts are best, but even Banes and Doms are better.

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Trick Arrow for me. Just a pure annoyance, nothing more.

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As I was reading over some of the issue 14 beta posts it occured to me that we may see some attitude shifts in regards to PvP in the not to distant future.

People will be building new arcs and many will be using their own characters as EBs/AVs in those arcs. I wonder if this will help people get over the mental hurdle that many have in regards to getting beat by an opponent that isn't just AI. Granted, it's still controlled by AI, but it will be their build, and is something they are familiar with.

I don't know, just a thought. With MA and the new PvP IOs, we might be seeing more RPers in PvP soon. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing yet.

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The problem is that it's not very rewarding to play a pure team toon whose only use to a team is essentially one power. I'm exaggerating a bit, but not much.

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No, this is pretty much dead on.

I've tried to play my Thermal Corr once since issue 13 dropped and it was horrible. I used to be able to buff and heal an entire team and still evade incoming attacks. Now it's virtually impossible to do it all without getting farmed. It got to the point where I would rush in, buff up one guy and run like hell hoping phase was active before the incoming damage killed me.

What a waste.

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Hey all, so when WP came out, I made him a PvP build. In Rise to the challenge, I slotted him with 2 specific IOs. Deflated ego and Dark Watchman. Both giving -25% slow and rech to the enemy. Once the power toggle is on, the other person's togles will show the deflated ego icon toggle. But now in Issue 13, they no longer see it. Is it bc the person is running a protection against the IO's powers, or did they remove the toggle all together?

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Those procs are only going to check for effect once every 10 seconds, so they may simply not be hitting in the 1-2 seconds that most people would be engaged in melee with you in typical PvP. I suspect that the icon showing all the time was probably a bug of some sort.

Now if you are talking about fightclub style toe to toe button mashing, I got bad news. Slows in general got nerfed all to hell with issue 13 so even if they are triggering, the effect probably won't even be noticed.

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But sadly, the disparity can be pretty ridiculous between AT's and/or sets....

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And despite the devs best efforts to the contrary, issue 13 made those disparities worse than ever.

And what makes it so tragically hillarious is that the PvPers told them that would happen, and they chose to completely ignore the obvious.

That's why people are so mad.

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So, screw the honest players if there's any chance of someone getting more reward than they should?

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I apologize if this sounds harsh, but if you (general you, not you specifically) are using an expoit, knowingly or not, then you are wrong.

Just wrong. Period.

It's not up to us as the gamers to decide what is or is not an exploit. It's up to the developers. It's their game, and they get to decide such things.

I'm seeing a bug in which my Bane mace attacks are not animating. Melee is fine, but the ranged attacks won't animate. He just stands there while beams of energy suddenly jump out of nowhere to stike my enemies. While that would be cool in real life, it just looks weird in the game.

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You're not selling me so far.

PVE elements are regular subscription holders. Adding new play elements at minimum pay for themselves and with the re-investment stand a good chance of expanding the playerbase through new subscribers and returnees who find something they like (or just the disappearance of something they didn't like).

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According to the last several financial reports from NCSoft, CoX subscriptions haven't grown in any appreciable ammount since Issue 7. In fact, this last quarter sales dropped 7% for CoH and 10% for CoV. Please tell me how all the Dev time spent on PvE has helped the game grow.

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PVP on the other hand is a subscription loser unless the Community Team is directed to focus on it and then only barely breaks even. It's an open question whether the Community Team might get better results switching the focus of their attention elsewhere in the near future.

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PvP is not anymore of a subscription loser than PvE at this point. The posts from Ex Libris clearly say that PvP is "stagnant". It's not gaining anymore than it is losing at present, the same as PvE. That is a problem because it was expected to generate growth, and it hasn't. The reasons for that are many and varied.


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Nor is "PVP" something that you just add like power windows on a car. CoX is not Lineage or Guild Wars. It has a separate culture and appeals to a different sort of player.

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I agree. CoX is not Guild Wars. Guild Wars, a PvP focused game, had an increase of 57%. The question now is, what kind of player base does NCSoft want to attract? The overall subscription rate has flatlined. All the new additions to the PvE game have done nothing to sustain growth. Seems to me there is only one direction for the new owners to go if they want to see growth.

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From a business standpoint, why on earth would I want to do that?

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Because NCSoft understands better than Cryptic ever did the importance of PvP in the MMO market.

Because they can easily see that the overall population of CoX is about as high as it is going to get with the current arrangment, and if they want to see any significant growth they will have to make some changes to the game. PvE content has been added consistantly, but has not generated growth. PvP is the one area of the game that has not recieved any significant developer attention since issue 7, and therefore is worth the effort to improve if it could be used to lure new players in and generate growth.

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Sure, a dedicated person to develope PvP and promote more players to actively participate. I think there's a idea around here that would be perfect for someone like that to start with. Human Being, do you know where it is?

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I know a great one that has been in the works for a long time.

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Okay, now ask yourself if this philosophy helps or hurts PVP playerbase-growth.

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Both I think.

The is no question that the rewards are usefull and desired by players. This in turn has increased the overall population in the PvP zones. However, I wouldn't say that it has increased participation in PvP in any noticable way. At least not in a voluntary way. Not in a good way. I have no doubt that there are some people that have given PvP a try because of the extra PvE content, but mostly it just gives PvPers something to do when the action is slow.

Overall, I would say that the philosophy of putting PvE in the PvP zones, as a means of encouraging non-PvPers to participate, has failed miserably. It has only served to polarize the two sides even further. The people that have absolutely no interest in PvP feel that they are getting robbed of content and rewards. Of the people that like PvP, one of the greatest complaints heard in the zones is that of getting debt from the NPCs in the zones. Certain powers will amount to almost certain death from NPCs if used against a player that is anywhere near them in a zone, thus limiting the pool of available usefull powers. Nobody wants that.

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I wouldn't have a problem if the rewards were solely for the risk of PvP, but they have the NPCs that must be dealt with as well, so does that make them PvP or PvE rewards?

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The rewards are PvP because PvP is the risk that is taken for getting them. The NPCs are the means by which the devs decided the rewards would be obtained.

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Personally i doubt the resources needed to make pvp a fun aspect of teh game will be put in adequately, and if so, it will take years imo to see the changes and realize a subscription "profit". Hard choices either way really....


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That's kind of how I feel. As long as PvP has been in the game, I really doubt that there are very many people still on the fence about it. By this time almost anybody that has had a subscription for longer than three months has most likely tried it once or twice and made up their mind about whether they like it or not. If they like it, they come back for more. If they don't, they probably won't come back to it regardless of any changes that are made.

The only way I see new growth coming to PvP is to target new subscriptions. That requires more commitment from NCSoft in regards to marketing than actually game changes. And by that I mean more than just mentioning PvP on the back of the box.

The first change I would make is to smooth out the learning curve so that new players can jump in without getting worked over. Perhaps a tutorial of some sort that works similar to the inventions tutorial. Also, since the devs have balanced for teams, they need to make teaming even easier in zones. Pehaps a mechanic when entering a PvP zone that would put up an option to be automatically teamed with others in the zone that also chose that option. It wouldn't be required, but would be very helpful to new PvPers to learn the ropes.

I think one of the biggest things they could do to improve zone PvP would be to have more GM presence in the zones to keep the trash talk under control. Somebody starts throwing out insults? Guess what, they just bought themselves a 15 minute timeout and are ported out of the zone and won't be able to reenter till the time is up. I gaurantee that would keep the trash talk to a minimum a lot better than any flagging system ever could.

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I am confronting the issue, that is the best way I know how to address an issue like this. I have a lot of great ideas that I would like to submit for improvements for PVP but in order for me to do so and be taken seriously, the community has to be viable.

To be considered viable in this industry it has to have a populous that is consistent. For each new person that comes to PVP in our game we lose people to PVP in our game either from natural flow, banning, or people that quit from griefing. It isn't as simple as "ban them all, let the individuals sort it out." This issue is affecting your community's viability.

The PVP community while it may appear to be getting new members is losing numbers at a similar rate, therefore the growth is not quantifiable.

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This is the part of Ex Libris post that I wonder about. In a nutshell, PvP is losing roughly as many participants as it gains. The thing I'm curious about is how they determine who is a "PvPer" and who isn't. It would seem to me that zone PvP is too random to be an element to know for sure. I know that on Virtue we often have informal PvP events in various zones at which decidedly non-PvPers will participate for the chance at some good RP. Arena on test server would be a more stable means of determining PvP population, but from all indications, that segment has grown, contrary to what Ex has stated. I'm confused by it, frankly.

Based on the last several financial reports from NCSoft that have been posted on these forums, the total population of CoX has been fairly constant for the last couple of years. The population spikes with every update, and wanes between updates, but is fairly consistant. In a nutshell, they lose as many subscriptions as they gain.

I am curious if the attrition to the PvP segment of the game is roughly the same percentage in relation to the total subscription attrition. If so, that would not necessarily mean that PvP is in any worse a condition than any other segment of the population. It would only be a more noticable segment because it is one that was expected to show growth, and is a constant polarizing element in the game.

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I wonder if all the PvE content were removed from the PvP zones, how many people would still go there for the pure desire to fight a living opponent.

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Probably most of them. That is something that a lot of PvPers have asked for since the zones opened. Getting rid of the NPCs would make most PvPers happy, and would reduce the RMT farmer population thus making PvErs happy. Seems like a win/win.