Cyber Bullying :(

People who say that are really, really, REALLY misguided.

This is why I hate people sometimes. And why I would, had I had access to guns, CHEERFULLY shot up my school when I was her age. Luckily (for them) my parents never owned guns, and forcibly restrained me from taking a bat to school.

What do you want to bet the little bastards who pushed her into this get off with a slap on the wrists?

Yeah. There's NOTHING stopping these people from hounding you both in cyberspace AND the real world. And kids at that age are cruel.

That and, even the most sensitive faculty are still figures of authority who can't be trusted.


No, people who say that are goddamned imbeciles with absolute ZERO idea of (and ability to grasp even if educated) the scope of the problem they're talking about.

I wish it wasn't such a cruel thing to tell kids that school is NOT "The World". It's THEIR world at that point. They don't (and possibly can't) see how just a couple years of maturity can cause people whose brains actually function beyond simply keeping their hunks of meat alive to shrug off a silly little "flashing" incident like this as "kid stuff" and "no big deal".

Some young woman looking for affirmation of her worth and her beauty decides to "flaunt" her assets. Even once. How many young women have done that? Why the hell is it a huge deal?

Oh yeah, because some mouth-breathing little sociopath in her class happened to be watching and couldn't find a healthier outlet for his libido than stalking this poor girl and making her life hell.

******* I hate people some times...

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I dunno: On the one hand, bullying is something that shouldn't go on and can certainly be a "big deal", but on the other hand people *do* need to learn that not everyone will like them and they thus shouldn't base their self-worth on what other people think of them.

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Some people just feel things more extremely than others.

At the age she was when all of this started, it's really hard to not give in to peer pressure, especially when said pressure is baited with compliments. She made a mistake when she was 14 and it ruined her life. Eventually, she saw no other way out, and took her life.

I don't doubt things would have gotten remarkably better if she managed to finish high school and moved on to (a nice out-of-state) college. But high school--the mid to late teen years--is absolutely the worst time to be a social pariah. Not only was she the victim of bullying, but don't forget, that came as the result of her being the victim of a sexual predator.

So, it is sad. Extremely so. But her reactions were... understandable, if misguided and unfortunate.

I don't believe in an afterlife personally, but I do hope that she's found peace.

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

Yes, but allowing bullying to occur is not the way to teach this lesson. It is also one that is taught in rather asymmetrical ways.

Why not? Nothing she did earned that kind of treatment. The treatment is still wrong regardless of anything she did.

And she was 12 years old when she flashed someone on video. I mean, at 12 years old, children are impulsive and make mistakes easily. No one should be haunted, stalked, harassed, blackmailed, and bullied for two years across multiple schools for making a stupid mistake at 12 years old.

Really? Are you that out of touch? You need a reality check.

Absolutely. As someone who was ostracized, made fun of, pushed around, and occasionally physically attacked throughout his school years I am 100% against bullying. But given human nature and our driving need to make everything into an Us vs. Them situation, I expect it will always occur to some degree despite our best efforts to curb the behaviour. That being the case, curbing the behaviours (such as craving the acceptance of others and seeking self-affirmation through them) that lead to suicide or lethal violence as a reaction is also a necessity.

I cannot sympathize with getting worked up over threats to expose something embarrassing I voluntarily did in a fit of stupidity, or the subsequent exposure. It's the sort of thing I would shrug off.

And I cannot sympathize with taking up self mutilation because people say bad things about me.

And I also cannot sympathize with not taking appropriate legal action for clearly misplaced sentiment.

And probably a few other actions and reactions on her part.

Having been in similar situations to varying degrees, I can sympathize with the situation itself, but just not the actions and reactions to it.

Wow. You need to get out and see what's happening in the world. People aren't all perfect like you. I feel sorry for you.

That's not what causes suicide. Suicidal ideation, obsession, and actual suicide is typically a consequence of severe mental illness. Mental illness is a perfectly normal and natural consequence of traumatic experiences.

Also, social rejection causes the part of the brain that processes physical pain to light up in the same way it lights up when you experience physical pain. Which is to say that being rejected or ostracized is a fairly excruciating experience, at least psychologically and neurologically. Even if one does not crave the acceptance of others or seek self affirmation through them, one can still be impacted by outright rejection like this.

I would not view this as curbing perfectly normal behaviors, though, but rather helping children and teens develop coping mechanisms for dealing with these situations with the understanding that humans are social animals and that for many this is not a switch that can be turned on and off at will.

You do not seem to have a very firm grasp on the concept of mental illness. She said in her video that she was diagnosed with major depression, anxiety, and panic disorder. Mental illness means that irrational actions and beliefs will seem rational, and developing mental illness is (unfortunately) a normal response to certain kinds of experiences. When you experience panic attacks (panic disorder) anything can set off a chain reaction that leaves you feeling like death may be imminent. It's an experience of terror for your life, and it can take years to learn how to understand and manage them. Major depression is also known as clinical depression and is a severely impairing and disabling disorder, and suicide attempts are common among those diagnosed with it. When you are suicidal, the decision to kill yourself actually seems rational and sometimes seems like the only possible option. "Tomorrow" or "the future" in general becomes meaningless. Another feature is "anhedonia," an inability to take pleasure in anything, which makes distraction from the depression itself very difficult. Anxiety disorder means that any kind of situation or potential situation can prompt crisis-directed thinking. Everything that might but probably won't go wrong becomes will probably go wrong in the worst possible way, which curtails one's ability to even leave their own home.

You seem to communicate this idea that she chose to take up these behaviors and attitudes in response to the situation, but that is not the way this sort of thing works. What happened to her was that her sense of personal safety was severely damaged by her stalker's actions. It took away her personal security, and probably to some extent harmed her sense of self. It completely redefined her life for the worse. It is very difficult to not have a strong reaction to this, even if one does not develop mental illness in response.

Also, some people are more prone to particular mental illnesses (such as depression, PTSD, anxiety, etc.) than others, and this could easily have been the case for her. The illnesses she had are extremely common, as far as mental illness goes.

Also, they did try to take legal action:

When people are targeted by predators, it is not always possible to engineer the best possible outcome. I find it perplexing that you would judge Amanda's behavior and the outcomes of her actions when these were not within her control.

From her own words, she tried hard to fight all of this. She was getting better before her suicide, and something caused everything to fall apart. Since it was apparent that her world was increasingly fragile with each iteration of this harassment, it would not have taken much.

I see what's happening in the world, and it generally reinforces my stoicism (which is not actually apathy). And I have never claimed to be perfect.

And your pity is noted, but can you make a case for self-mutilation and suicide being a sensible response to other people not liking you? Because it doesn't make sense to me. It's a ridiculous notion - crazy, even - and thus I cannot sympathize with it any more than I can sympathize with the act of shooting a bunch of random people because you don't get asked to join their reindeer games.

Not everyone is made the same. A predator got her at 12 and she made a mistake. Most of her world tormented her. She was put through hell for almost 4 years. She was obviously troubled and I cannot begin to imagine how she felt after going through all of this. People can be absolutely savage.

Another story notes via CTV news notes these same savages vandalized her Facebook memorial page. They posted sick images which included a pic of a bottle of bleach and a comment about her nose. All this after she took her life. They are still attacking her. So, I hope you can maybe begin to comprehend what kind of sick animals have been at her for almost 4 years. This was far from a case of not being liked.

I find this interesting, because Amanda wasn't self-mutilating or attempting (and ultimately committing) suicide because "other people didn't like her," but rather to people harassing her, blackmailing her, physically attacking her, lying to her, tricking her into sex, and so on.

I explained this in greater detail upthread. I hoped it would have an impact, but perhaps I am too optimistic.

If you do not desperately need social acceptance, social rejection is not so traumatic an experience.

I won't quibble over the semantics, but I basically agree that however it is accomplished, they need to be able to cope better.

Whether I understand the concept of mental illness has little impact on my ability to sympathize. Sympathy requires a certain amount of relatability. Ergo, I sympathize with the situation, but not her actions/reactions in said situation - those are completely alien to me.

In her video she makes the statement that she chose not to press charges against any of the kids involved with the just-short-of-a-lynch mob. That is what I was referring to.

Unless people were doing all that because they *did* like her, you're just arguing semantics.

Yes, people can be horrible and cruel. I have personal experience with that. As I said, I sympathize with the situation. And I find the loss of life tragic and stupid.

I do not even know what "loneliness" feels like because I have very little need for social interaction and acceptance. And yet, rejection still hurts. Why is this? I have come across research that explains the neurological basis of how people react to rejection. It's a matter of neurology, not choice. None of us choose how our brains work, we deal with what we have.

Yes, but this sort of coping is not something that someone can usually come up with on their own - or if they do, it can take years. Helping people learn to cope is something that isn't really taught, and really should be. Still, I think more focus should be on preventative measures against bullying in general.

You seem to be phrasing her actions as conscious choices she made, without accounting for the fact that her perception and cognition were altered by her experiences. Altered in a manner that made irrational actions and decisions seem rational or necessary.

For example, you seem to view her self injury as something she chose to do in a rational state of mind. Self injury is not something people do because they consciously weigh their options and decide to try. It's something that happens in a fairly distressed state of mind, whatever caused the distress in the first place.

You are not taking all of the facts into account. For example, she says she thought the boyfriend really loved her, and she didn't want to get him in trouble or cause trouble for him.

No, I am not arguing semantics. If you cannot perceive the difference between "doesn't like her" and "actively stalks, blackmails, and harasses her," as anything but semantic, I seriously question if we have any common ground for this discussion. "Doesn't like her" is a trivializing and misleading description of events.

I don't find it stupid because I know what it's like to have major depression, anxiety, and panic disorder. I simply find her suicide tragic, and I do not blame her for where she ended up. I consider what was done to her to be malicious and vicious, and not necessarily stupid. Her stalker, unfortunately, knew exactly what he was doing.

Don't think it has anything to do with being perfect and everything to do with 'reality checks'. I'm not into the whole social networking deal but I have friends whose whole existance is their facebook page. They live for it.

Bullying is a problem but it's a problem compounded by many other problems in this particular scenario. For one, giving kids access to social networking is like handing them a loaded gun; they might use it to protect themselves, hunt down something to eat or go firing it at each other for fun.

IMO, there is *NO* reason a kid needs to be socializing with 'the world' because the world is no place for them yet. And it's hard on parents who are trying to shield their family from 'the world'. Don't they have a special division of facebook that does bully-watch and deletes, suspends and bans accounts that are reported for excessive harrassment to minors (who shouldn't be on facebook in the first place)? They can't send out the cops to people's houses (who foolishly put all their personal information on their page) to put a stop to their actions?

It's sad she let herself become an example of how far cyber bullying can lead but its primarily a problem with society, not bullying. Society's connected nature, their views on sex and nudity, their use of mobs and violence. I'm sorry to say, but those issues won't be solved in our lifetime and she will not be the last to fall victim to them.