When CoH/CoV Jumped The Shark

I have not posted in quite a while, and though I kept playing quietly, I had long cooled down my playtime here. I suppose it might have been the fact that I toiled through 30+ level 50s (no "gimmies" I knew how to use and play every single one). Maybe it was that each, also, were carefully designed with the maximum toys and upgrades that I won or my influence/infamy could buy. Heck, my base still has a secret spot that holds billions in inventions. Maybe it was my SG(s), which I allowed to slowly die, once honestly earned a spot in the top 10 and is till in the top 100. Once upon a time, Airmen on Liberty were a strong group. When we showed up for a mission, we were held in esteem. We had strict rules of conduct. We had a true, written story.

Ahhh but when did CoH jump the shark? Was it the endless nerfs that resulted in one massive insulting nerf between issues 5 and 6? That really drove a coffin nail into the game that it never recovered from.

Maybe it was the massive groups of villains on maps. Perhaps it would have been better if they upped the XP and removed 3/4 of them rather than nerfing herding or encourageing PL. But the nerfs of Issues 5 and 6? Were they really necessary? Not if they had done the upping of XP and removal of such large and close groups.

Maybe it was listening to the whines from kids who would have quit anyway about some guy that kept beating them up in PvP that resulted in a balancing (nerf) that again drove a coffin nail.

Maybe it was the mysterious dissaperance of the 5th Column? Long suspected was a politically correct decision to remove them just before the opening of a German Server. Perhaps it was the silly addition of Romans? What about Croatoa? Why were the Devs quiet about Apex for so long? Why was low level War Witch suddenly promoted to such an esteemed status associated with Croatoa? AND WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THUNDERCLAP? Dont get me started on Stringa, I never saw a true need for that zone.

Why was the original cut through, via the OLD dance zone removed? Hmmm? I still miss it.

What about the lonely lonely lonely Shadow Shard? A very under used and beautiful area that left people stranded if you did not have the right travel powers.

Maybe it was the sudden appearance of a police force with super powers? Maybe it was the fact that Paragon City NEVER celebrated the 4th of July or was so politically correct about things that they never showed kids, houses, the city airport, or, heaven forbid, a religious reference like a church (well if they did they might show some others too).

What about when they changed the Hami? He was fun to fight, thanks to a parting gift by Cryptic, we got a absolutely awful and no fun to play fight.

Oh but the nerfs of Issue 5 and 6. Oh they were painful. I recall tanks logging into the game, falling out of the portal faceplanted. No herding (do you know how much fun that was?). What of the 7 issues of nerfs to Regen that resulted in a toon that now has to be micromanaged to such an annoying degree that I never play my primary toon anymore?

No, it was the Issue 5 and 6 nerfs, followed by the competition, that killed the game. CoH lost so many people that it never became cool to play again. It never helped that the endless nerfs up till the time NCSoft took over left such a bad taste in peoples mouths that... well... it just took all these years to finally pull the plug.

So you came back from your long hiatus to COX bash? The events your talking about where lead by a different development team I hope you realize.

Apparently it's been a long stretch since you last played or you would have experienced the new strong creative directions That Posi and the team where taking us in.

They were excited... We were excited. Then the fateful Friday hit us square in the gut.

Seriously!? I know it's controversial, but IMO, ED saved the game. The unfortunate part about ED is that the full culmination of it did not arrive until Issue 9 when Inventions and the market came to be. THAT is when the game really took off.

If the game had continued without ED people would have become tired of it because heroes were already overpowered. Six slotted Hasten, etc. ED made people plan and balance and work for a great character. I know that turned some people off, but I think it made for a vastly better game.

When did it jump the shark? Just a couple of weeks ago with the Captain Mako event.

Yes, that is my "theory". All you need do is look at the numbers lost, and, at the same time look at the new numbers that appeared for CoV. That was the point that the game dropped to 200k and never rose again to it's former glory.

Yes, my "theory" is the negative press, the negative opinions were the coffin nail. How many encounters later did I bump into saying that other games dont massively (and proudly) nerf.

The nerfs, how they were done, were part of some sit down between Cryptic and others at a conference. I only recall vague memories about it, but I do recall that SWG did the same thing (and they attended that conference). We all know what happened to their numbers right after...

Go back, look at the numbers, I think they still can be found, but that is about the point CoH fell from a million players to 200k and never recovered.

GONE TO THE AMERICANS!!!!!!!1

Sorry, but literally everything you said was provably wrong, stupid, or both. For example,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airman_America Maybe it was listening to the whines from kids who would have quit anyway about some guy that kept beating them up in PvP that resulted in a balancing (nerf) that again drove a coffin nail.

From day one, their policy was "We won't change PvE to balance PvP." And, they stuck with it.

I think we know when TC jumped the shark...

The future of this game was more exciting now that it had ever been. I was contemplating purchasing my first ever 12 month sub when the news hit. That's why I'm so passionate about keeping this game alive. It never got stale, it just got better and better.

"Jumping the shark" is a term normally associated with some event that was so exciting that the show/game could not possibly compete with its own past and therefore was cancelled. That's not what happened here. I don't think it could have happened here. This dev team always had awesome new ideas up their sleeves. And no matter what happens, I will follow them to their new projects - that's something I don't generally do in any medium. I don't read books written by a specific author (I read them because they are next in a series or world setting, they may or may not be the same author), I don't watch movies because of who directed them, and until now I didn't play video games because of who developed them. But now I will, because I know how talented this team was.

@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian

So... It was aliens?

How did information on the Shark Jump power get leaked?

While I can't begin to address all of your FUD, nor would I want to, I do have replies on two particular points: one factual (to the best of my knowledge and belief) and one opinion.

First, the facts as I know them: the removal of the Fifth Column turned out to be part of early plans for CoV, since abandoned, in which PC villains would start out as flunkies for various factions - Arachnos was only one of these. The Fifth Column was another. But of course we can't let players be Nazis (in Germany or anywhere else), and not just because a certain segment of them would blaze new ground in finding ways to offend. So... the Council. Fascism lite. Lame. Implemented in the clumsiest search-and-replace way possible.

Then, of course, the CoV design got changed (for the better, IMO, but it still needed some work with the whole "flunky" thing) and the reason for ditching the Fifth became moot, but it was already in place, and took years to undo. Unfortunate. On the other hand, it did give us that awesome reveal in the middle of the ITF, at the end of that canyon.

Now, the opinion. Yeah, ED sucked at the time, but it was necessary, utterly so, to prepare the ground for Inventions. So which would you rather have, a screen full of 1-Acc 5-Dam SOs, or the full panoply of IOs, including purples, which can equal or even exceed the performance we used to have?

Oop, one more opinion, sorry. (I just went back and read your post again.) Herding was fun for ONE person, the tank. The tank got to be awesome. Everyone else got to stand around for minutes and, I suppose, marvel at how awesome the tank was. This is not good, IMO. The way we have it now, everyone gets to have fun. My friends and I go through spawns like a steamroller, with no standing around waiting for the tank to herd up the map for us.

If you used to play a tank and miss being The Star, the most (only!) important person on the team, the center of attention for both enemies and allies... well, I could say I'm sorry for you, but it would be a lie. How about "get over yourself"?

By your logic, the same nerfs of i5 and i6, the invention system and the incarnate system would have brought players back. Outside of a few tanks I played back then (who would herd the map, then AoE it with no aoe caps) I'd say a vast majority of my builds are more powerful today then they were pre ED GDN.

What is a much more realistic scenario is as games get older the population generally declines, sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. Restructuring the game will chase some people off, sure. But a better overall product will ensure others stay longer. And that is pretty much what I think happened.

You had some population loss with the i5 i6 nerfs, you had a population loss with the i13 changes. But overall you had a game with a healthy population that lasted 8+ years where most are lucky to last 2.

An easy answer is that it never really jumped the shark. Yes we all complained about ED, but once we got invention sets it made things even better than before in terms of overall building as opposed to the usual "1 ACC, 5 DAM" builds everyone used.

And old Hami being FUN? I find it insane that your idea of fun involves a situation where a few people spend forever dumping PA's on Hami, the framerate was usually 1, and you'd have a zone full of people not actually helping because they wanted to wait until Hami was about dead so they could run in and smack him or, later, to run in and nuke, getting multiple HO's they didn't earn while others couldn't get the one they DID. And that was IF holds didn't fail and we ended up with a Yellow Dawn.

One has to wonder why you chose now to come back just to post a bunch of drivel? Was it because you were afraid you wouldn't be remembered as that guy who whined? Well, I can safely say you'll be remembered as that, so mission accomplished.

This thread jumped the shark when the OP started writing down his own version of lost in translation

I've already forgotten about most of you

City of Heroes jumped the shark, and doomed itself to this fate, the day that Cryptic made the same mistake that every other doomed MMO has made: the crazy idea that once the game was more or less "feature complete" they could lay off 75% of the development staff, and nobody would notice. Only a couple of early MMOs kept their entire development staff: World of Warcraft, EVE Online, Guild Wars, and Runequest. All of them are thriving.

The Freem Fifteen did amazing work with what little resources they had. No more time and money than they had to invest in it, Croatoa may be the single most impressive engineering achievement in MMO history. But by the time they got reinforcements, the game's numbers had fallen below the point of no return.