No! BAD Forbin! Do not feed the trolls.
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**** it, I can't resist either.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Excellent thread.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Below are excerpts from his long winded suggestion.
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Originally Posted by konrad knox
Again, the responses here so far are mostly from carebear population,
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Originally Posted by konrad knox
It is true, so no need to argue or troll me.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
I just found out about CoX closing on 11/22. I've been on an extended hiatus due to RL issues. When I logged in yesterday and saw the announcement, I immediately knew why.
Why? It all comes down to money folks...Sure CoX was making money, but ROI is very important...especially to a company(NCSoft) that is at the beginning of a downward spiral.
While CoX may have been making a profit, the return on investment simply must not have been there.
Lets make up some numbers to frame this properly
In other words, if your expenses, are 1,000,000 a month, and that 1 million earns you a revenue of 1,050,000, then you pocket, 50k a month or 5%. But what do you do if you know that the same 1 million invested in something else is going to return you 250k a month? or 25% if it is put somewhere else?
That's why right there...They simply want to put the money somewhere else.
They decided to shut down rather than phase it out...why? Because announcing that they were going to stop development and freeze the game status would have killed the game anyway...probably would immediately drive it to a loss.
The next question, is why not sell it? Because, they would continue to own all the intellectual property....forever. This means they own all of your characters, all of your stories and story arcs. They can literally make a movie or comic book on YOUR concept and they get all proceeds. Do you know what all that creativity is worth?
So delete you characters right? I'm sure they have the capability of preventing any sort of permanent data loss. Hell, they probably have all historical data on every character you ever made. Deleted or not deleted.
Our best hope, our best hope...is that someone like steam or some other service is willing to buy it and keep it active. It would be mildly feasible that all character data is maintained somehow.
This whole thing saddens me as I feel like this game was the last piece of childhood I had left in me. Even though I've been away from the game, not a single day went by that I didn't think about it. I feel it's actually part of my personality. It is at my core, just like Voltron, GiJoe and Transformers...G1 on all counts.
So this is just the end of another era. Another phase gone by for all of us. We hope for some sort of resurrection. But any sort of Plan Z will ultimately come up short due to funding. It is a mathematical certainty.
Our second best hope? Some other game materializes and fills the gap. Where we can all reassemble and do what we do best.
And now, with CoX gone...there will be a void to fill...and someone will fill it. That, my anonymous friends, I will guarantee you...it is also a mathematical certainty.
See you later.
JohnX
John Wrath
John Sigma
Axonius
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Hit Streak totally went Hulk on Konrads post. |
Originally Posted by konrad knox
Edit: Please refrain from trolling these forums. This is your only warning.
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Edit: Please refrain from trolling these forums. This is your only warning.  Last edited by Hit Streak; Today at 01:03 AM. |
Awesome!
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You really have no idea why people are upset. Games get shut down. That is a fact of life. However that isn't the reason why people here are upset.|
Originally Posted by JohnX
I just found out about CoX closing on 11/22. I've been on an extended hiatus due to RL issues. When I logged in yesterday and saw the announcement, I immediately knew why.
Why? It all comes down to money folks...Sure CoX was making money, but ROI is very important...especially to a company(NCSoft) that is at the beginning of a downward spiral. While CoX may have been making a profit, the return on investment simply must not have been there. Lets make up some numbers to frame this properly In other words, if your expenses, are 1,000,000 a month, and that 1 million earns you a revenue of 1,050,000, then you pocket, 50k a month or 5%. But what do you do if you know that the same 1 million invested in something else is going to return you 250k a month? or 25% if it is put somewhere else? That's why right there...They simply want to put the money somewhere else. They decided to shut down rather than phase it out...why? Because announcing that they were going to stop development and freeze the game status would have killed the game anyway...probably would immediately drive it to a loss. |
People are pissed at the underhanded and disrespectful way NCSoft handled the closure of the game. Blowing smoke up everyones back ends by telling the people at Paragon Studios and us how well everything was doing, providing funding for continued development of content all the while knowing they were going to yank the rug out from everyones feet. Then just a week or two before the release of a brand new issue they call up Paragon Studios and tell them, everyone is fired.
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| The next question, is why not sell it? Because, they would continue to own all the intellectual property....forever. This means they own all of your characters, all of your stories and story arcs. They can literally make a movie or comic book on YOUR concept and they get all proceeds. Do you know what all that creativity is worth? |
NCSoft bought the IP rights from Cryptic. If NCSoft sold the IP rights to someone else that new person/company would own all the IP of City of Heroes.
NCSoft would not get to keep the characters, stories and story arcs.
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| So delete you characters right? I'm sure they have the capability of preventing any sort of permanent data loss. Hell, they probably have all historical data on every character you ever made. Deleted or not deleted. |
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| Our best hope, our best hope...is that someone like steam or some other service is willing to buy it and keep it active. It would be mildly feasible that all character data is maintained somehow. |
Uh yeah forbin right on.
First of all. Your first quotation of me made no mention of why people are feeling the way they are. I made no explanation of people feelings. Just explaining the why because no one, that I read, saw that ROI angle.
Your second and third references to my quotes flat out supported my comments. Thanks for that I guess.
Your forth. Meh. Whatever. If you and everyone else says so. Im obviously not close to the whole thing. Just calling as I see it.
I really will miss this sort of thing.
Inserting random thought...I guess the closest thing to a permanent MMO is RL. I think that is the lesson I've leaned here. It's where we actually do have the most control...except for our AT. Can't really select your own AT in RL...We'll, not unless you PL toward it.
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The "ROI angle" has been presented in various forms on the forums since the shutdown announcement. All of them, yours included, are wrong in at least two respects. One: the game was not as thinly profitable as your examples suggest: the operating profit of the game was far higher. Two: ROI (really, operating profit is the more proper term here) as a percentage of total expenses would have to be so low so as to be lower than all other alternatives to make it reasonable to terminate the business line, and given the current cash position of NCsoft that theory is untenable. In other words, NCsoft is sitting on so much cash earning very little return that it would be illogical to terminate a line of business just to increase their cash position and make even less.
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Originally Posted by JohnX
First of all. Your first quotation of me made no mention of why people are feeling the way they are. I made no explanation of people feelings. Just explaining the why because no one, that I read, saw that ROI angle.
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NCSoft also doesn't own our characters, they own the in-game representation of our characters as related to the CoH universe. They can't use your characters in any other setting and claim to own them (though they could probably make a film or another game set in Paragon and use those characters without having to pay royalties to players). Likewise, you're free to use those same characters in other non-NCSoft games.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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If you are right, and I am wrong, then the implication against NCSOFT is that their action is conspiratorial in nature AND/OR that they are a bunch of knee-jerk minded corporate retards.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The "ROI angle" has been presented in various forms on the forums since the shutdown announcement. All of them, yours included, are wrong in at least two respects. One: the game was not as thinly profitable as your examples suggest: the operating profit of the game was far higher. Two: ROI (really, operating profit is the more proper term here) as a percentage of total expenses would have to be so low so as to be lower than all other alternatives to make it reasonable to terminate the business line, and given the current cash position of NCsoft that theory is untenable. In other words, NCsoft is sitting on so much cash earning very little return that it would be illogical to terminate a line of business just to increase their cash position and make even less.
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If your response is not based on inductive rationale numbers and CEO level financial decisions, then my statement above can be the only other possible explanation.
I can only use inductive reasoning as I have 0 insider information on this. My inductive reasoning drives me to conclude that $1 will make more invested in Y than continued to be invested in X. That is all I'm saying there.
Thus, in their minds, they are not making less. They would be making more from a different investment.
Moot point either way. Learned alot from you arcanville. You made an impression on me and I will always associate my thoughts of CoX with your posts and how you applied your critical thinking to game issues. Hope to see your CoX name in the footer of posts in another MMO.
Well I thought that originally NCSoft and Cryptic were co-owners of the IP after they help paid to complete it's development. When Cryptic appeared to have a slight conflict of interest, siphoning developers off it for what was the "Marvel MMO" at the time that NCSoft stepped up to buy off Cryptic and start up a studio using the remaining developers.
We won't ever, officially at least, know the true reasons behind the closing. My reading of "realignment of focus" is both only having products that will sell well in Asia, which is the majority of their market, as well as looking to expand into markets other than PC based MMOs, meaning browser, mobile and social media gaming. This second being why they are sort of in an alliance with Nexon, co-producing a game with them.
As for not selling off the game, I don't think at the time they were planning an getting rid of CoH as well as Paragon Studio that the idea that selling them off was an option anybody thought of. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Their SOP both in the west as well as previous small games in Asia was to simply close them and layoff everyone involved. By the time they were approached with offers to buy the wheels were well into motion and it was simply too late to stop it.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
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yeah.
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Well I thought that originally NCSoft and Cryptic were co-owners of the IP after they help paid to complete it's development. When Cryptic appeared to have a slight conflict of interest, siphoning developers off it for what was the "Marvel MMO" at the time that NCSoft stepped up to buy off Cryptic and start up a studio using the remaining developers.
We won't ever, officially at least, know the true reasons behind the closing. My reading of "realignment of focus" is both only having products that will sell well in Asia, which is the majority of their market, as well as looking to expand into markets other than PC based MMOs, meaning browser, mobile and social media gaming. This second being why they are sort of in an alliance with Nexon, co-producing a game with them. As for not selling off the game, I don't think at the time they were planning an getting rid of CoH as well as Paragon Studio that the idea that selling them off was an option anybody thought of. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Their SOP both in the west as well as previous small games in Asia was to simply close them and layoff everyone involved. By the time they were approached with offers to buy the wheels were well into motion and it was simply too late to stop it. |
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
I think that it made better business sense not to sell. Big business,especially entertainment based, is a gamble. If they sold it and it got popular, it would take away from their other games. They are losing no more money sitting on it than they are in shut down. Sold it has potential to take more money away than it was bought for. The only way it would be good for them is if it brought good will back.
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Originally Posted by blackjak
I think that it made better business sense not to sell. Big business,especially entertainment based, is a gamble. If they sold it and it got popular, it would take away from their other games. They are losing no more money sitting on it than they are in shut down. Sold it has potential to take more money away than it was bought for. The only way it would be good for them is if it brought good will back.
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I disagree completely. COH has had moderately stable sub numbers for the past several years. Those numbers were obviously not enough for the owners to keep the game operating. Thus it's highly unlikely that anyone else who bought the game would suddenly make it explode into threatening numbers. Think about it...if the new owner DOUBLED the subs to 300,000 that wouldn't make a ripple in the millions of subs NCSoft has through its other games.
If NCSoft had one guy earning 20K a month work on JUST selling COH off for three months and they received, say, a million for it they're ahead 940k. I don't know much about the game industry but the ill-will alone would have been worth the effort IMHO. It was short-sighted of them to close things down in this way. Better to release the new issue (nearly done), hunt for buyers, announce their plan to sell and allow for some sort of continuity. Yes, they're playing to their (much wider) Asian market but by doing things this way they're soured the Western markets for themselves for years to come. Not good business sense.
I think something happened financially within NCSoft and someone panicked. They saw COH as making a trickle of cash (relatively speaking), saw what they'd save in payroll if they cut the Dev team and pulled the trigger.
Customer loyalty is priceless.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
And you are still under the misnomer that the games population was 150,000. Before Freedom the subscription base couldn't be higher than about half that number. Since Freedom didn't do much of anything beyond the first quarter after it was implemented in the terms of revenue, it didn't really matter if the population was 150,000 if half of them weren't spending any money at all on a regular basis.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
It's games. Games shut down. The fact that you were horrible lifeless addicts who detached from reality and got engrossed in a videogame is your own personal problem.
Smatter Konrad, has the football team been shoving your head into the toilet again?
Did the cheerleaders pants you again and laugh at your shortcomings?
Did you just learn that your children (if you have any) have the mailman's eye's?
Oh btw your PvP suggestion from back in June of 2011 where you suggested that nonPvPers be forced to pay extortion fees to PvP groups that "own" the stores and trains in the districts they "control" was at best idiotic.
Below are excerpts from his long winded suggestion.
All purchases made in shops of the district, all deals sold/bought on black market - would pay a small % fee to the ruler supergroup. Yes, this means that some districts (ones with tailors) will be more prized territories than districts who don't have many vendors. Competition will be hot there.
Also, to add to this, make ferries and train stations charge a small fee. No more than 100 infamy/information/influence per trip. (hardly noticeable to an average person daily, 100 infamy is nothing), but it builds up from a 1000 people a day using the ferry, and your supergroup just made 100 000 infamy a day. Not bad.
Now, the beauty of this proposed system is that is that it does not FORCE anyone to use it or pvp.
blah blah blah
And again, if you are not, the game can stay the same to you, and you don't have to care who owns what land. As long as you pay your taxes.
No one cared that you threatened to quit last year, but you have brightened our last days here by giving us someone to laugh at.
Sure we may be upset over the game closing but none of us are so pathetic to be still butthurt about a suggestion getting ignored over a year ago, that we feel obligated to make an "I told you so" post.
Thank you for putting a smile on our faces.
Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas as well.