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Plus they're adding a damage buff to the ranged origin attacks, like Throwing Knives, for players below level 20.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Personally I like Web Grenade as is, yes the lack of damage does hurt for low level Blasters since they can't use it to fill out their attack chain but once you get to level 25 or so I find that the debuffs from Web Grenade are a lot more useful than the damage would be.
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True.|
Originally Posted by Moon Dog
Currently, Devices is pretty bad.
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| It's pretty much the red-headed stepchild of Traps, at this point: it's ugly and hard to synergize thematically with primary powers, and it's very rarely, if ever used, due to the gimmicky, circumstantial powers and the lack of a build-up. |
And while I agree that it falls short performance wise, that hasn't stopped *anyone* from using it over the years. These days I do see more /traps players thanks to proliferation, but /dev is far from a rarity.
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| 1. Web Grenade: Add a lethal DoT as the super-thin strings cut into skin and armor to bring it up to speed with other secondaries' immobilizes. |
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| 2. Caltrops: Fine as-is. Caltrops is always pretty badass. Maybe change the animation to the one used by the heal in Poison, which looks better than the current "fling your arm out like a tool" animation. |
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| 3. Taser: Alternate animation when using a weapon powerset, such as DP, Beam Rifle or Assault Rifle. Fires the taser leads directly from the weapon. |
I have it on my ar/dev, but only as a set mule.
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| 4. Targeting Drone: With blasters getting an instant snipe in i24, maybe make this a toggle that gives you just enough to-hit to facilitate that instant snipe, as well as some +range. Increase endurance consumption to compensate. If not, make it similar to Focused Accuracy with an extra +range component. |
I don't see it needing any more help.
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| 5. Smoke Grenade: Turn it into a ground-targeted area of effect that lowers enemy perception and increases ally defense inside the area of effect. |
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| 6. Cloaking Device: Cool as-is. |
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| 7. Trip Mine: Get rid of this, as it does not fit the thematic image of the powerset and it is not fun at all to spend five minutes planting a giant stack of landmines (which, I'm pretty sure, was never the original intent of this power and was only kept in because everything else in Devices is trash) when you could be doing something useful like using your primary powerset instead. Ignore all the crybabies who want to keep their gimmick power that they only use because all the other powers in the set suck in comparison. Replace with either a concussion grenade (ground-targeted AoE knockback, ideally used to corral enemies into a firing slot) or a flashbang (targeted AoE sleep and -tohit.) |
It is also a very effective power that many people quite like- I ditched it not because it doesn't work well, but because I got tired of the gameplay style it imposed. But you can do some crazy things with trip mines and any crusade to get rid of it or materially change how it works is going to run into a stiff headwind from annoyed players.
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| 8. Time Bomb: Get rid of this, as I can't recall a point in time when anyone ever took or used this ability in serious gameplay. Replace with a standard build-up power, stick it lower in Devices. Maybe call it "Tactical Focus". |
Happily, a recent Red Name post informs us a change is on the menu possibly as early as I25.
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| 9. Gun Drone: Fine as-is. Maybe lower the damage and add a -def or -res component as the barrage of gunfire eats away at enemy protections. |
Eliminating the cast time made it worth taking, but it still does piddly damage and self destructs way too fast.
I could go for leaving the damage as-is while adding a -def & increasing duration, or even just making it a better aggro magnet- give it a little taunt and a few extra HP or something.
It's 'okay' right now, but could use a little something to make it shine.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I'd say he has an unhealthy fascination with Batman as well. As if he's the only super hero that uses devices/traps/gimmicks.|
Originally Posted by Kazz
Funny. I play /Devices by, you know, blasting them to hell and never missing because of Targeting Drone.
Frankly, based on this, I think the person with the unhealthy fascination with Trip Mine is... well, you. You're the one going on and on and on about how awful it is, while the rest of your suggestions lend credence to you never really playind /Devices (or quitting at an early level from frustration). |
Leave my Tripmines alone.
Others have pointed the out many flaws in your argument, but I am surprised no one has pointed out the logical inconsistency of your first post since in later posts you resort to asking WWBD (What Would Batman Do.)
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and another post...|
Originally Posted by Moon Dog
Yeah, dudes, I'm saying remove Trip Mine. It looks ugly and doesn't fit with the power. Would Batman run around planting giant stacks of landmines everywhere?
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Originally Posted by Moon Dog
The idea here is to make Devices a powerset that an actual hero would take, rather than some kind of field engineer that carries around a giant sack of landmines. Again, think Batman.
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Originally Posted by Moon Dog
9. Gun Drone: Fine as-is. Maybe lower the damage and add a -def or -res component as the barrage of gunfire eats away at enemy protections.
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Additionally, You tried to portray that Batman's Sack would need to be huge to carry the Trip Mines but using the same logic for Gun Turrets means that multiple Giant Bags of Holding would be needed for all the Gun Turrets that you say are "Fine As Is"
If we dip into reality, rather then game graphics then an explosive device with proximity detector would weigh less than 8 ozs and over a dozen of them could fit in the pouches of the "Bat Belt" with room to spare. By comparison a single robotic full auto machine gun turret would weigh in at 30-50 pounds and need to be carried in the "Bat Back Pack". Considering the number that can wind up being destroyed in a single mission he had better also have the "Bat Hernia Belt" handy to carry them all.
Gosh, I'm the new girl but even I know about the Cottage Rule.
I Don't necessarily like Trip mine but It is a good power. As a trapper I lay the things down mid combat all the time when it's not being interrupted 
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My Beamer well lay down a few blast the mob with your aoe as there melting from disintegration the rest stumble over your mines. Devices is a tactical power set not a face roll rawr give me xpz nao! power set.
Saying that I'd love for it to work more like the mines in Fall Out press the button toss it on the ground, but for that to happen and stay balanced either the damage would have to be reduced( and i love COH to much to make enemies of everyone by suggesting that!) or it's recharge increased
As for being ugly? well sure I admit for a mine it is not very attractive what with being flat and blinky and.. well flat.. I suggest using the power customization like I did and make the sensor lasers pink!
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Just a general comment on the whole issue of Trip Mine. Personally I feel that the main issue with Trip Mine isn't that Trip Mine itself is bad it's that Devices has TWO powers that are rather situational and use the same basic principle. For me fixing Time Bomb to make it useful in fast-paced play effectively also fixes Trip Mine because now I don't need it. That's why I tend to favor fixing Time Bomb and leaving Trip Mine alone. Have one bomb for people who want a fast-paced action set and one for those that prefer a slower paced style.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I am not a fan of trip mine and don't have it in my ar/dev's current build, but saying it ISN'T THEMATIC is ridiculous- it fits in perfectly with the whole 'gadget' vibe of the set.
It is also a very effective power that many people quite like- I ditched it not because it doesn't work well, but because I got tired of the gameplay style it imposed. But you can do some crazy things with trip mines and any crusade to get rid of it or materially change how it works is going to run into a stiff headwind from annoyed players. Time Bomb is pure, hot garbage. Happily, a recent Red Name post informs us a change is on the menu possibly as early as I25. |
The Mastermind version of Traps is a good example of this (at least in theory). It has Trip Mine for MMs who want that and Detonate for MMs who prefer a more direct solution. Unfortunately due to some somewhat questionable design decisions in the set it doesn't work that way in practice by the intent is right (Trip Mine does Blaster level damage while Detonate does wildly variable damage depending on the type of pet used meaning that Trip Mine frequently out-damages it). When the devs fix Time Bomb I'm going to suggest porting the new version of that to Mastermind Traps as well.
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so is your experience, as far as waiting for set up, hardly its about the same as a master mind needing to resummon dead pets heck faster. I also haven't noticed any one else to this point beside YOU saying trip mines is a crappy power, MOST of them seem to have great success with it so again I think the problem is YOU.|
Originally Posted by Moon Dog
The cases you hear of people using trip mine to 'great effect' are biased, |
So, i recommend YOU use another set, cause I don't see the devs making any of YOUR fixes to please a clear minority.
btw I love how you talk down to me even though you are loosing the battle on this one
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This. I have a AR/Traps Corr, Nerco/Traps MM and still working out what i want for a blaster /Dev but Tripmines are going to stay.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Leave my Tripmines alone.
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Going to miss the fun and nice people here at CoH. Feel free to add me on PS3/XBox360
PS3X360: OmniNogard
Currently playing: Mass Effect 3(PS3) Minecraft(X360) Skyrim(X360).
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Yep Bats hates guns.|
Originally Posted by Cathulhu
Most versions of Batman have him refuse to use guns against humans. I guess it has something to do with some silly little child hood induced trauma involving guns.
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3 examples since the 1940s, yep that proves he loves guns, hate to break it to ya but in MOST (and that was the term used MOST) imaginings of Batman he doesn't use guns, the most notable exception being in the batman Year two series and was all of 4 comics and in which he used said gun for maybe a comic.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Yep Bats hates guns.
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Yes even the mighty batman has lost his way a few times and used guns but these pictures are horribly out of context Bats has only ever picked up a gun reluctantly and as last resort.
but we are now horribly off topic so I return you to your regularly scheduled argument about traps
Edit: Xenophage says what I mean better and with fewer words. 
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And how does your post counter my statement that "Most versions of Batman have him refuse to use guns against humans." None of those shots show him using a gun against another human.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Yep Bats hates guns.
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Out of Batman's 2000+ canon (Not alternate reality) stories, spanning 60+ years, I CAN NOT think of 3 instances where Batman intentionally use a gun to cause harm to a human?
I don't recognize all of the pictures you posted but the first one is apparently from an ALTERNATE UNIVERSE story "Batman/Doc Savage Special". Using an Alternate reality Pic is about as valid as countering someones claim that "Statesman is a hero" by bringing up "Tyrant."
A website that actually looks at Batman and guns is
http://sacomics.blogspot.com/2005/08...-and-guns.html
If you look it over you will quickly see that there are very few instances of Batman using a gun and virtually none where he intentionally shoots another human to cause harm.
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Why yes, all the examples made were since the 1940s, To be accurate May 1939. That's because it's impossible to show examples of him using guns before he was ever published in a comic book. |
Originally Posted by Xenophage
3 examples since the 1940s,
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The truth is that Batman uses guns whenever the writer feels it's necessary to the story he is telling. Deal with it.
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Oh you want pics of him using guns against another human. Why didn't you say so.|
Originally Posted by Cathulhu
None of those shots show him using a gun against another human
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Nope You are right. I couldn't find one instance where Batman ever used a gun against another human being.
Hello all.
I, a scrapper/Brute player who has never gotten a Blaster past 30, am presently playing a Dark/Devices Blaster, and am loving every bit of it.
I am 27 now, and do not have time bomb or trip mine yet, but, as a solo player, I am getting a lot of utility out of the Devices powers I do have, which is everything up to Trip Mine with the exception of Taser..might take it in the future, but as of now I am not missing it.
I am almost half finished with First Ward, and have not had a single death...if this powerset needs fixing, than I can't wait for issue 24...I will need to put on shades to prevent being blinded by it's awesomeness
Lisa.
So don't wait for heroes, do it yourself
You've got the power
winners are losers
who got up and gave it just one more try
***Dennis DeYoung
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You seem to love to use Strawman arguments. Please show me where I said that "You couldn't find one instance where Batman ever used a gun against another human being." One more time. I said |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Oh you want pics of him using guns against another human. Why didn't you say so.
Nope You are right. I couldn't find one instance where Batman ever used a gun against another human being. |
"Most versions of Batman have him refuse to use guns against humans."
I directed you to the very page you have now chosen to post pictures from, so I would expect you to at least try to contradict what I actually said, instead of posting the very pictures I pointed you towards to refute some a strawman. How does posting 5 pictures out of at a minimum of half a million Batman comic panels spanning 2000+ issues and over 60+ years dispute my claim that
"MOST versions of Batman have him refuse to use guns against humans?"
You seem intent to try to put words in my mouth but so far you have failed to show that my statement is false. One more time since you seem to keep missing it.
"MOST VERSIONS OF BATMAN HAVE HIM REFUSE TO USE GUNS AGAINST HUMANS."
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my point was the times he uses guns are in vast minority and he usually hates himself for it later
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Why yes, all the examples made were since the 1940s, To be accurate May 1939. That's because it's impossible to show examples of him using guns before he was ever published in a comic book.
The truth is that Batman uses guns whenever the writer feels it's necessary to the story he is telling. Deal with it. |
Will not talk about Batman, will not talk about Batman, will not talk about Batman...
I've got a few /Devices Blasters and I do enjoy the use of Trip Mine (not Time Bomb, but that's going to be a different animal soon). The one thing I would get behind as a change would be to switch placement from underfoot to a short-range location reticle. This would give it a little more flexibility, allow some corner ambushes, wall placements, etc. I don't know what kind of balancing would need to happen to compensate for that (if any). If the expected change would significantly gimp its effectiveness, I would heartily withdraw said suggestion.
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Batman (the 1989 movie, on this past weekend) had him shooting the machine guns on the Batwing at the Jack Nicholson, I mean, the Joker. (dang it, I talked about Batman, I couldn't help myself, I'll take myself behind the woodshed and await my proper punishment)
@NC Thunderbird, @Last Kid Picked
HELP! I can't stop making Alts! Up to 175 now, including: Lutadora, Tess LaCoille, Not Of This World, Lies Behind Stars, Redshift Monk.
Campaigning for title of official "Thread Killer" of the Suggestions & Ideas forum.
Okay, I'm going to ignore the Batman and guns part of this thread and respond to the OP's attitude throughout this thread.
Moon Dog:
Sorry chief, but your attitude of "I'm right and anyone who doesn't heap glowing praise on my idea is stupid and wrong" is not going to win you much support here, or anywhere else for that matter.
Given your registration date, and general lack of knowledge, I also find it hilarious that you have the audacity as such a new player to tell people who have been playing for 6-8 years that they know less about how the game works than you.
You don't like Trip Mine, I get it. But the game is City of Heroes, not City of Moon Dog. You're just going to have to accept that you do not get to dictate what is fun or worthwhile for everyone else.
Your entire case here has been based on Trip Mine being a useless power. Not only has NO ONE agreed with you, but several people have shown you proof of it being effectively used in more than the "niche situations" that you assert it is only useful in. Which you completely ignored.
If you want to win a debate, respond to the evidence of you being wrong instead of ignoring it. All ignoring it does is prove to everyone else that you can't refute the evidence. And if you can't refute the simplest evidence of Trip Mine being useful, your entire argument falls apart.
Have a nice day. Drop the attitude in future proceedings and you might find people willing to actually engage in a civilized discussion with you. Calling people pants-on-head retarded in your first sentence for having a playstyle that differs from your own is not a good way to start one of those.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Get over it.|
Originally Posted by Cathulhu
You seem to love to use Strawman arguments.
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My quoting your post about him using guns was tongue in cheek. Hence the silly emoticon at the bottom of my post, but you had to go all anal and throw a hissy fit and claim he never used them against humans.
As I said to Xeno, the writers have Bats using pistols, rifles, machine guns, grenades, rockets whenever they feel like it. When he isn't carrying it personally his various vehicles are armed to the teeth.
It's not real. It's a comic book. Deal with it. Your acting like someone kicked your puppy.
I still don't see how Batman is even relevant in a thread about Devices as it exists in CoH.
Batman is not a Blaster, by any stretch of the definition.
When I think "Devices Blaster" The Punisher and Nick Fury come to mind long before Batman does.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Meh the OP kept trying to use Bats as justification for changing Devices. I can't imagine why the OP thinks Bats would be anything other than one of the melee AT's in this game, but his logic has holes in it you could sail an aircraft carrier thu sideways.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I still don't see how Batman is even relevant in a thread about Devices as it exists in CoH.
Batman is not a Blaster, by any stretch of the definition. When I think "Devices Blaster" The Punisher and Nick Fury come to mind long before Batman does. |
Personally if I were to make a Bats themed character in this game he'd be a Scrapper or Stalker and the "devices" would come from the Weapon Mastery ancillary pool.
I think this thread has run it's course: The OP made a suggestion, gets negative comments, OP responds negatively, more backlash, ???, talk about Batman.
I was doing some playthroughs of City of Heroes. Now they will serve as memories of a better time ...
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sop!
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Originally Posted by theshattered
i think this thread has run it's course: The op made a suggestion, gets negative comments, op responds negatively, more backlash, ???, talk about batman.
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Yeah, Bats would pretty much be a MA or StJ/Ninjitsu Stalker with the powersets currently in the game, with the weapon mastery ancillary. Using him to justify changes to Devices is really, really silly.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Personally I think that with the changes previously made to Gun Drone and the upcoming I24 changes Devices is in a pretty good place. Field Operative is IMHO the best of the new Sustain powers (it's a toggle but you don't have to worry about it generating Aggro unlike the other toggle sustains). Targeting Drone means perma-FastSnipe is easy to obtain. Caltrops are awesome for keeping foes at range. Gun Drone is now reasonably useful. Smoke Grenade is a useful debuff both for increasing your survivability and stealthing glowies.
As for the more situational powers. Personally I like Web Grenade as is, yes the lack of damage does hurt for low level Blasters since they can't use it to fill out their attack chain but once you get to level 25 or so I find that the debuffs from Web Grenade are a lot more useful than the damage would be. Trip Mine is (as people have mentioned) a somewhat situational power but it still provides some useful benefits for a Blaster, particularly if their Primary lacks in AoE (personally I tend to use it for the knockback as a last line of defense behind my Caltrops). Time Bomb is the only real stinker in the set and the upside is Synapse has said that this is high on their list of things to fix so we know it will get fixed (I'm hoping for I25 but we will have to see).