How to fix Devices


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Currently, Devices is pretty bad. It's pretty much the red-headed stepchild of Traps, at this point: it's ugly and hard to synergize thematically with primary powers, and it's very rarely, if ever used, due to the gimmicky, circumstantial powers and the lack of a build-up.

Here are my suggestions to improving the powerset, turning it from the crap heap that it currently is into what it was intended to be: a Blaster secondary that has extra support and utility at the expense of little offensive power.


1. Web Grenade: Add a lethal DoT as the super-thin strings cut into skin and armor to bring it up to speed with other secondaries' immobilizes.

2. Caltrops: Fine as-is. Caltrops is always pretty badass. Maybe change the animation to the one used by the heal in Poison, which looks better than the current "fling your arm out like a tool" animation.

3. Taser: Alternate animation when using a weapon powerset, such as DP, Beam Rifle or Assault Rifle. Fires the taser leads directly from the weapon.

4. Targeting Drone: With blasters getting an instant snipe in i24, maybe make this a toggle that gives you just enough to-hit to facilitate that instant snipe, as well as some +range. Increase endurance consumption to compensate. If not, make it similar to Focused Accuracy with an extra +range component.

5. Smoke Grenade: Turn it into a ground-targeted area of effect that lowers enemy perception and increases ally defense inside the area of effect.

6. Cloaking Device: Cool as-is.

7. Trip Mine: Get rid of this, as it does not fit the thematic image of the powerset and it is not fun at all to spend five minutes planting a giant stack of landmines (which, I'm pretty sure, was never the original intent of this power and was only kept in because everything else in Devices is trash) when you could be doing something useful like using your primary powerset instead. Ignore all the crybabies who want to keep their gimmick power that they only use because all the other powers in the set suck in comparison. Replace with either a concussion grenade (ground-targeted AoE knockback, ideally used to corral enemies into a firing slot) or a flashbang (targeted AoE sleep and -tohit.)

8. Time Bomb: Get rid of this, as I can't recall a point in time when anyone ever took or used this ability in serious gameplay. Replace with a standard build-up power, stick it lower in Devices. Maybe call it "Tactical Focus".

9. Gun Drone: Fine as-is. Maybe lower the damage and add a -def or -res component as the barrage of gunfire eats away at enemy protections.


 

Posted

The set is due an update but Tripmine is probably the reason people choose the set in the first place. They can be used on every mob either by pulling foes to a stack of them when solo or stealthing in and toe bombing when teaming.


 

Posted

Based on how I played devices I cannot support this suggestion. The one that stands out is yes trip mine. Very useful power IMHO.


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Posted

Pretty much have to disagree with the entire thing. But really this:

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Trip Mine: Get rid of this, as it is never used except in gimmicky, niche occasions
... I have to think you have never played devices. Ever. Or, for that matter, Traps, which also has Trip Mine in it. If you'd said Sonic Cage was a bit of a "niche occasion" use, I'd agree. Calling Trip Mine "never used" is like saying "Nobody uses Stamina."


 

Posted

Funny. I tend to open most fights by planting a tripmine on someone's feet, on my devices blaster. Resulting in the near death of half the spawn from that alone, usually. But meh, maybe I'm weird.

Also, targeting drone already gives enough tohit for instant snipes. With three SOs it's something like half a percent off it, which is easily gotten by slotting a kismet unique, a fourth SO or some enhancement boosters.


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Posted

I wasn't aware Devices is broken. Granted, I'm pants-on-head retarded, so what do I know? Either way, I happen to like it broken just fine, thank you. If you don't, there are plenty of other powersets out there for you to play.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Dog View Post
7. Trip Mine: Get rid of this, as it is never used except in gimmicky, niche occasions (and the chance that you'll ever have someone with the power when you need to use the power is horribly low.)
Aha....ahaha. Hahahahaaahahahahah...

Hee....
Oh, wait...you were being serious?


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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

wow and I thought people where brutal with my suggestions, though I'd like to thank the OP of this and his hasten thread for making me feel a little less (or more depending on your point of view) pants on head retarded.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Dog View Post
1. Web Grenade: Add a lethal DoT as the super-thin strings cut into skin and armor to bring it up to speed with other secondaries' immobilizes.
It also does -fly and has a significant slow component that will keep any opponents on the ground after the immobilize has worn off. It already does more than other secondaries' immobilizes do and is in no need of "bringing up to speed".

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2. Caltrops: Fine as-is. Caltrops is always pretty badass. Maybe change the animation to the one used by the heal in Poison, which looks better than the current "fling your arm out like a tool" animation.
If you don't fling your arm out, how are you going to get a decent spread?

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3. Taser: Alternate animation when using a weapon powerset, such as DP, Beam Rifle or Assault Rifle. Fires the taser leads directly from the weapon.
A) This isn't possible, and B) even if it were, it couldn't be done for ONE power without being done to EVERY POWER IN THE GAME. That is a ridiculously huge amount of work to do to give a minor adjustment to a single power.

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4. Targeting Drone: With blasters getting an instant snipe in i24, maybe make this a toggle that gives you just enough to-hit to facilitate that instant snipe
Have you ever played /Devices? Because what you describe here is exactly what Targeting Drone is NOW.

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5. Smoke Grenade: Turn it into a ground-targeted area of effect that lowers enemy perception and increases ally defense inside the area of effect.
This doesn't improve the power, it just makes it more annoying to use.

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6. Cloaking Device: Cool as-is.
Ironically, the one power you don't want changed is the one power in the set that IS being changed with i24. It's becoming Field Operative, which will give you a large amount of +Regen and +Recovery on top of what it already does.

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7. Trip Mine: Get rid of this, as it is never used except in gimmicky, niche occasions (and the chance that you'll ever have someone with the power when you need to use the power is horribly low.) Replace with either a concussion grenade (ground-targeted AoE knockback, ideally used to corral enemies into a firing slot) or a flashbang (targeted AoE sleep and -tohit.)
You clearly haven't played /Devices. This power is the reason most /Devices players play the set in the first place.

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8. Time Bomb: Get rid of this, as I can't recall a point in time when anyone ever took or used this ability in serious gameplay. Replace with a standard build-up power, stick it lower in Devices. Maybe call it "Tactical Focus".
First, if you take this power away my Sonic/Devices Blaster will kill you in your sleep, because that's exactly how he uses this power. On entire spawns.

Second, the devs have mentioned having "something cool" in mind for this power.

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9. Gun Drone: Fine as-is. Maybe lower the damage and add a -def or -res component as the barrage of gunfire eats away at enemy protections.
It needs slightly MORE damage, not less.

This suggestion list reads like someone who has never played the set, just read the power descriptions and went from there.


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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
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Posted

Yeah, dudes, I'm saying remove Trip Mine. It looks ugly and doesn't fit with the power. Would Batman run around planting giant stacks of landmines everywhere?

Get rid of it, replace it with something useful, like a build up power or a flashbang/concussion grenade effect. I have legitimately never, ever seen anyone use Trip Mine or Time Bomb, and the few Devices blasters I've played have never used it with no ill effect. Primarily because, again, it's ugly-looking, boring, annoying to set up, extremely gimmicky, and doesn't fit with the theme of being a Blaster. No reasonable group is going to wait around five minutes for you to set up Trip Mine for a boss; it's a hell of a lot faster to just straight-up beat the enemy to death.

Replacing it with something that better fits the theme of Devices will make the powerset a lot more tolerable for people who want to play it without sacrificing their character theme and most of their usefulness as a Blaster for some silly gimmick power that's only feasible in a few select situations.

As extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, I would like to see anyone give me video evidence of a person using Trip Mine in an actual combat situation. Just one example, unless it doesn't exist because nobody ever does it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Dog View Post
As extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, I would like to see anyone give me video evidence of a person using Trip Mine in an actual combat situation. Just one example, unless it doesn't exist because nobody ever does it.
Search on "Toe Bomb."

Common enough it has its own terminology in game.

Bu-bye.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
Search on "Toe Bomb."

Common enough it has its own terminology in game.

Bu-bye.

Ignoring the fact that it's a niche power only useful in certain scenarios, the main reason that Trip Mine should be changed is because, thematically, it doesn't fit Devices. It'd be something better seen in Traps, where the focus IS on dropping things on the ground you lure enemies into. As a Devices blaster, your gameplay is basically "plant 50 trip mines, lure enemies into them, repeat forever" which is stupid both in concept and practice. Maybe you're comfortable with it, but that's more because it's the only way you can make the powerset good, rather than it actually being fun to use in any shape or form.

Here's a tip: If your entire powerset revolves around one gimmicky and ugly power that's only taken by min/maxers without any thought to the appearance or function of the power, then maybe it's time to fix it. Replace it with something that actually better fits the theme of the powerset and has more utility to a Blaster than "extra damage" (which is what their PRIMARY powerset should be doing) like a flashbang or concussion grenade, or hell, even a build-up.

The idea here is to make Devices a powerset that an actual hero would take, rather than some kind of field engineer that carries around a giant sack of landmines. Again, think Batman.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Dog View Post
Yeah, dudes, I'm saying remove Trip Mine. It looks ugly and doesn't fit with the power. Would Batman run around planting giant stacks of landmines everywhere?

Get rid of it, replace it with something useful, like a build up power or a flashbang/concussion grenade effect. I have legitimately never, ever seen anyone use Trip Mine or Time Bomb, and the few Devices blasters I've played have never used it with no ill effect. Primarily because, again, it's ugly-looking, boring, annoying to set up, extremely gimmicky, and doesn't fit with the theme of being a Blaster. No reasonable group is going to wait around five minutes for you to set up Trip Mine for a boss; it's a hell of a lot faster to just straight-up beat the enemy to death.

Replacing it with something that better fits the theme of Devices will make the powerset a lot more tolerable for people who want to play it without sacrificing their character theme and most of their usefulness as a Blaster for some silly gimmick power that's only feasible in a few select situations.

As extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, I would like to see anyone give me video evidence of a person using Trip Mine in an actual combat situation. Just one example, unless it doesn't exist because nobody ever does it.
Batman wouldn't use trip mines cause of ethics, but people like Deadpool, Punisher, deathstroke, slade, and cable certainly would and several of them HAVE, now I will grant you they aren't as obvious as the ones in game but i assume that is for the players so they can SEE them and stay behind them, so maybe the art on it could use a nice reworking, but people have already stated they use the power with high efficiency.

just cause you always use or never use a power doesn't mean others are the same.

see the wonderful thing about the power sets and this game is how prolific it is and that the Devs have gone through pain staking measures to make sure every power set, combinations of power sets and power choices there in are viable as long you slot them well and play better then a half lobotomized monkey.

I have never played Traps TBH but I have seen trip mine used with great effectiveness. Ever watch what happens with ice patch and trip mines in a duo?

lets just say looney toons and Charlie chaplin couldn't do a better job.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Xenophage View Post
I have never played Traps TBH but I have seen trip mine used with great effectiveness. Ever watch what happens with ice patch and trip mines in a duo?
So you're saying that in a full team or in an Incarnate trial, those 8 to 24 people will stop everything they're doing to wait two minutes for you to set up a bunch of landmines for the AV to walk into when everyone (including you) could be doing actual damage?

Simply put, the time it takes to set up Trip Mine and the time the team spends doing nothing while they wait for you to finish is time that could be spent actually playing the game instead. This is why Trip Mine needs to go and be replaced with something that BETTER FITS THE THEME OF THE POWER and HAS ACTUAL UTILITY IN A GROUP SCENARIO.

The cases you hear of people using trip mine to 'great effect' are biased, anecdotal cases that were either from soloing (where the boring, lame process of clicking the Trip Mine power for two minutes can probably be beneficial sometimes I guess) or, again, from the rare gimmick/niche scenarios in which Trip Mine is actually effective and efficient to use. I want to see actual legitimate proof that using Trip Mine is, at all, viable, and that it's somehow so better than simply using your attack powers that it deserves to be kept.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Dog View Post
Ignoring the fact that it's a niche power only useful in certain scenarios, the main reason that Trip Mine should be changed is because, thematically, it doesn't fit Devices.
Well, the original (at least US Civil War, probably earlier) term for a land mine was "an infernal device." Sounds thematic.

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Originally Posted by Moon Dog View Post
Maybe you're comfortable with it, but that's more because it's the only way you can make the powerset good, rather than it actually being fun to use in any shape or form.
Are you listening to us, or just talking into a vacuum? Because a lot of players like trip Mine. It makes me laugh at least a few times every single play session in which I use it.

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Originally Posted by Moon Dog View Post
ugly power that's only taken by min/maxers without any thought to the appearance or function of the power
Uh, most of the complaints about Trip Mine seem to be that it doesn't fit the playstyle of min/maxing rewards per minute. So I'd characterize it as seldom taken by min/maxers.

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Originally Posted by Moon Dog View Post
Again, think Batman.
Didn't the Dark Knight movie feature an exploding cell phone bomb Morgan Freeman carried into a building for...who was it...Batman?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Dog View Post
As a Devices blaster, your gameplay is basically "plant 50 trip mines, lure enemies into them, repeat forever" which is stupid both in concept and practice.
Funny. I play /Devices by, you know, blasting them to hell and never missing because of Targeting Drone.

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Here's a tip: If your entire powerset revolves around one gimmicky and ugly power that's only taken by min/maxers without any thought to the appearance or function of the power, then maybe it's time to fix it. Replace it with something that actually better fits the theme of the powerset and has more utility to a Blaster than "extra damage" (which is what their PRIMARY powerset should be doing) like a flashbang or concussion grenade, or hell, even a build-up.

The idea here is to make Devices a powerset that an actual hero would take, rather than some kind of field engineer that carries around a giant sack of landmines. Again, think Batman.
Frankly, based on this, I think the person with the unhealthy fascination with Trip Mine is... well, you. You're the one going on and on and on about how awful it is, while the rest of your suggestions lend credence to you never really playind /Devices (or quitting at an early level from frustration).


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Dog View Post
Ignoring the fact that it's a niche power only useful in certain scenarios,
If you mean 'every single spawn', then sure, Trip Mine is a niche power only useful in certain scenarios. Most people don't lay down a giant field of Trip Mines, they put down one or two and often another one or two mid-combat (toe-bombing).

Just because you don't see the use in the power doesn't mean it doesn't have a use. Trip Mine is one of the biggest reason people take Devices/Traps (along with it being a 'natural' style set).


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Posted

Times when Trip Mine is useful:

BAF: Prisoners stage or a 'Courtyard' run. Heck, even a 'Separation' run.

UG: Knowing where the waves spawn and placing a Mine or two there. Better yet, place them around the area your team is holding!

Keyes: Place them in the bunkers or spawn points, or on the generators AM flies to.

TPN: Place them at the feet of the technicians, or where the tanks drag the spawns to. Also: Put them where Maelstrom spawns.

Those are just iTrials as well! Most 'vanilla' Task Forces offer many opportunities to use Trip Mine to great effect!

You seem to be getting the usage of Trip Mine wrong. Trip Mine, generally, isn't supposed to be used in the heat of combat (Even then, with a good tank and caltrops, you can still pull it off). You're supposed to place them where you know, or predict enemies will spawn or arrive thickest.

And, despite your claim of 'No one waits for minefields to be set up', in the 3 years i've had my AR/Dev character, not once has someone NOT let him set up a minefield. A well-placed minefield can destroy an entire spawn, or demolish an AV's health.

Devices plays so much more differently than any other Blaster Secondary, it's easy to see where the 'weak' idea comes from. Devices is about preparation, and hindering enemies rather than all out damage.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by TheShattered View Post
Devices plays so much more differently than any other Blaster Secondary, it's easy to see where the 'weak' idea comes from. Devices is about preparation, and hindering enemies rather than all out damage.
And I would not want to see this changed one bit. It caters to a different playstyle and promotes outside-the-box thinking and a little bit of patience. If you don't like that, go play /energy or /fire instead.

Also Time bomb's going to be changed to be a more Remote Bomb-type power. You place it, and it's toggled on. Once you detoggle it, it detonates. At least, according to Synapse on that one thread awhile back.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Moon Dog View Post
Ignoring the fact that it's a niche power only useful in certain scenarios,
Called "Combat," which doesn't happen much in.... wait, yes it does.

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the main reason that Trip Mine should be changed is because, thematically, it doesn't fit Devices.
You're right! Trip mine *obviously* belongs in Mind Control! Because it's a device!

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It'd be something better seen in Traps,
Where it also is.

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your gameplay is basically "plant 50 trip mines, lure enemies into them, repeat forever"
Or plant a few, with caltrops, snipe, and as they're blowing up, Ignite the survivors.

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which is stupid both in concept and practice.
While normally I'd take advice on a specific subject from an expert, in this case, I have to disagree with what's being mislabelled as "stupid" here.

*Note, I'm not calling you an expert on Devices, as you're obviously not.

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Maybe you're comfortable with it,
.... as is every other Devices blaster out there.

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but that's more because it's the only way you can make the powerset good, rather than it actually being fun to use in any shape or form.
Ohhh, and you can define for everyone what's fun now, too...

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Here's a tip: If your entire powerset revolves around one gimmicky and ugly power
Which it isn't
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that's only taken by min/maxers
which it isn't
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without any thought to the appearance or function of the power,
Trip Mine - You put down a mine. Seems like an appropriate appearance to that power for me.
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then maybe it's time to fix it.
And if it's not broken, don't. Which it isn't.

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Replace it with something that actually better fits the theme of the powerset
A device! In devices! Like, say, a mine!
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and has more utility to a Blaster than "extra damage" (which is what their PRIMARY powerset should be doing)
So you obviously know nothing about blasters as a whole, then. Have you met /electric? /Energy? /Psi? .... oh, look, extra damage.

Here's a suggestion for you:


Instead of trying to screw up a powerset that people have used and enjoyed for 23 issues now.... if you don't like it, don't take it.

"Problem" solved.


I also note you, unsurprisingly, ignored what I told you before, which would show you it's hardly a "niche" power.


 

Posted

If it were a throwable proximity mine-style ability, I wouldn't complain. Would maintain it's current functionality while adding another. I believe one of the devs said Time Bomb is getting an update like that at some point.

But getting rid of it is sort of silly. Like it or not, it's iconic.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Sailboat View Post
Didn't the Dark Knight movie feature an exploding cell phone bomb Morgan Freeman carried into a building for...who was it...Batman?
It wasn't a bomb, it was new technology that allowed a cellphone to be used like a sonar device. He used it to get around the building at night to kidnap the banker.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by MentalMaden View Post
It wasn't a bomb, it was new technology that allowed a cellphone to be used like a sonar device. He used it to get around the building at night to kidnap the banker.
And then it blew up.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Sailboat View Post
And then it blew up.
No it didn't.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Dog View Post
I want to see actual legitimate proof that using Trip Mine is, at all, viable, and that it's somehow so better than simply using your attack powers that it deserves to be kept.
Okay, bub...first of all, entitled much? Second, Bill already told you where you could find that, and you blithely ignored it. And third, windmills do not work that way. Everyone who's posted in this thread so far - everyone but you - likes Trip Mine. That makes us the majority here, and guess what? The majority of the players is who the developers of this game tend to listen to.

So if you want Trip Mine replaced with something else, I suggest you get off your high horse and give us 'actual legitimate proof' that there needs to be a change here. Oh and how about you drop the attitude while you're at it? Because until you do both of those, you're not going to be changing any of our minds, and this change you so feverishly desire is never going to happen.


"If I had Force powers, vacuum or not my cape/clothes/hair would always be blowing in the Dramatic Wind." - Tenzhi

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