Regeneration - The red-headed stepchild
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2012-08-25 03:45 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Quote:
Sadly I think this sums up regen. I have a BS Regen Scrapper at 50 semi stripped of IOs. |
Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
The set demands more skill to play than other secondaries but doesn't reward you better than they for needing to have that skill.
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I know people can say and will say its about a challenge and if you want to have some skill with a toon. I can understand because in some fashion Storm is slightly similar in the sense Hurricane does take some skill to use.
But if I really want a challenge I jump on my Petless mastermind(s).
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
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My main gripe is lack of regen debuff resists and recovery debuff resists, because at the heart and soul of it, that is what regen does, and it isn't protected from debuff like other sets protect their strengths. Those 2 things are primarily what makes it binary...if debuffs had no teeth against the regen and recovery so you could always use your clicks and always know about what you were getting with your regen, you would be solid.|
Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
In my ramble I also forgot to mention that you can't use a click when dead. Hence, binary. That was my personal issue leveling it, and it was partially me. I'm a terrible judge of when to hit the magic clicky. I'm better at it now (especially with the god mode breathing room), but still on occassion I'll find myself on the receiving end of a salvo of APU hits faceplanting me from full before I know they're there, let alone before I can hit a button. The set demands more skill to play than other secondaries but doesn't reward you better than they for needing to have that skill.
But yes, regen is king of handling unresistable damage. Unless I'm in a burn patch, I usually don't even bother leaping away from Marauder's nova fist if instant healing is running. |
Like you said, there are a few groups that exascerbate this fact...and those are the 2 holes I think /Regen needs filled.
Currently Playing:
Rage King - SS/Regen Brute (50+3)
Soulfire Darkness - Dark/Fire Tank (50+2)
Deaths Final Embrace - Kat/Dark Brute (50+3)
ULTIMATE REGEN GUIDE I22
I still think that Regen really benefits from strong mitigation primary. I've been heavily tempted to make a Titan weapons character just because pbaoe KD. Having mitigation from your primary makes Regen feel a lot less clicky, at least not more than Fire armor. I kept Dull pain on auto, then depending on what I had to tank I'd hit MoG then run in. Instant Healing really only came into the equation when fighting something that could really cause damage such as AVs. It's kinda like what Dechs Kaison said once in his blog, It's fighting with duct tape (he said it about a different powerset but it's still the same situation)
But I will admit that my Stone Melee/Regen Brute ran on sos for a long time. It's a great pairing. The end recovery helps a lot with keeping the cost of stone down and as flipside, fault keeps things either in the air or walking around like drunks. The only problem I have is because of the stun I don't generate a whole lot of rage. Which is why I really want Tankers to have Regen.
There's particular groups that definately mess up Regen. But doesn't all defensive powersets have that issue? Just ask a Stone armor or a Invul to go fight a mishmash of Carnies and Arachnos.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tater Todd
"My Thugs/Pancake can solo Breast Cancer!"
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I have four /Regens, two Scrappers and a two Stalkers.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Since the IH nerf they've buffed: Dull Pain, Resilience, MoG, and Revive. Regeneration is significantly sturdier than people give it credit for.
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I find these threads silly.
You want to buff me, I'm not going to complain. But I kind of laugh at them.
And I don't IO out until I'm 50, and I haven't PL'd anything since ... Issue 1 or so.
Edit: Frankly, Regen is one of the things I find easiest to play at 50 against Incarnate stuff. The claims that it lacks debuff resists ring hollow, and sound like people who are spoiled by +defense sets. Nothing I have that's not SR or maybe Shield has enough debuff resists to avoid being stripped of +def by x8 Banished Pantheon or even Malta. They all get screwed by that. And I find Regen extremely forgiving in iTrials - more so than most other sets that have weaker self heals, because few of my melees have sufficiently strong resists to Psi and Energy, so they suffer strongly from those attack types (which are very common in iContent) and don't have the HP recovery to deal with it, outside of a fresh Rebirth).
But I have a metric butt-ton of experience playing the set, so that probably affects my view of it. I am pretty tuned towards that good reward from playing it well. Everyone has bad luck sometimes, but overall, I find Regen very easy to survive with. It takes a lot of clicking, sure, but I don't consider that "hard" any more.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Hmm, so far I've leveled 2 /Regen scrappers, one BS/Regen and one Spine/Regen. Both are kitted out with good IO builds; not 10 billion by any stretch but decent builds with good bonuses and both ended up with a fair amount of defense.
I find both of them to be considerably squishier than my Spine/Electric and my BS/Shield scrappers. No, they aren't unplayably gimped or anything but they are less durable and require a lot more attention to the HP bar than my other scrappers.
So far I've leveled 5 Scrappers to 50, and durability wise I'd rank them:
1. Street Justice/Invuln
2. Broadsword/Shield
3. Spines/Electric
4. Broadsword/Regen
5. Spines/Regen
I do think /Regen could use a bit of buff; it's not BAD but it is a lower performing set than some of the others. On the other hand if you invest a ton of inf and get close to the def soft cap things change considerably. It's a bit hard to do though without gimping other areas since you're starting from zero.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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I think the first part is true, but not the second. What Regen gives you is a way to turn around bad situations. I'm leveling a SR/Staff Tanker right now, and it's silly strong with just SOs (40% def to all positions at level 22!). But when things go south, I have to pray I have an inspiration at the ready. |
Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
The set demands more skill to play than other secondaries but doesn't reward you better than they for needing to have that skill.
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With Regen, I am never without one of my four cooldowns (Recon, Dull Pain, IH, MoG). Of the four only Instant Healing doesn't IMMEDIATELY change the circumstances. Regen is reactive unlike many of the sets, but that's a boon at times. It means that you're almost never at the mercy of the RNG. No defense set can say that (Energy Aura gets the closest).
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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This I completely agree with...Dark Armor would likely be right up there as well...BECAUSE of it's good composite resists, but I whole heartedly agree with this.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I have four /Regens, two Scrappers and a two Stalkers.
I find these threads silly. You want to buff me, I'm not going to complain. But I kind of laugh at them. And I don't IO out until I'm 50, and I haven't PL'd anything since ... Issue 1 or so. Edit: Frankly, Regen is one of the things I find easiest to play at 50 against Incarnate stuff. The claims that it lacks debuff resists ring hollow, and sound like people who are spoiled by +defense sets. Nothing I have that's not SR or maybe Shield has enough debuff resists to avoid being stripped of +def by x8 Banished Pantheon or even Malta. They all get screwed by that. And I find Regen extremely forgiving in iTrials - more so than most other sets that have weaker self heals, because few of my melees have sufficiently strong resists to Psi and Energy, so they suffer strongly from those attack types (which are very common in iContent) and don't have the HP recovery to deal with it, outside of a fresh Rebirth). |
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| But I have a metric butt-ton of experience playing the set, so that probably affects my view of it. I am pretty tuned towards that good reward from playing it well. Everyone has bad luck sometimes, but overall, I find Regen very easy to survive with. It takes a lot of clicking, sure, but I don't consider that "hard" any more. |
Currently Playing:
Rage King - SS/Regen Brute (50+3)
Soulfire Darkness - Dark/Fire Tank (50+2)
Deaths Final Embrace - Kat/Dark Brute (50+3)
ULTIMATE REGEN GUIDE I22
Quote:
QFT. It somehow got ingrained in the player base that if you don't have high levels of debuff resistance then you immediately fall apart when you come across debuffing enemies, and it's absolutely not true.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
The claims that it lacks debuff resists ring hollow, and sound like people who are spoiled by +defense sets.
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I remember running into a few too many "all or nothing" regen debuff resist attacks during the Rikti invasions, which prompted me to retire my spines/regen scrapper. I may give her another go given that things sound fairly positive at this point.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Oddly enough, this is my exact complaint about Willpower. At least with Regen I can look at a situation and say, "Well, if I had clicked this a little earlier in the fight I likely would have survived." With Willpower, the answer is pretty much always I shouldn't have dove into that group and should've pulled or split the group. Regen at least feels like it could've survived times that Willpower has no chances. I've got both at 35+ on SOs and I just can't get behind my WP character. I know it can do some stupidly ghodly things (the guy who got me into the game has a SS/WP brute that basically can't die if he is looking at the game at all against pretty much anything), but I just can't enjoy the either you're not worrying at all about anything or your faceplanted gameplay of WP.|
Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
I just find Regen, especially on SOs, too damn binary.
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Anywho, Regen seems just fine to me. On SOs it's not an amazing tank set, but for off tanking, it's damn great. Probably a better Scrapper set, though I'm quite happy with my brute and the only reason he doesn't see too much playtime is because he's on a different server than the people I normally play with.
EDIT - Forgot to add; While I think Regen debuff resistance ought to exist in sets that rely on regen for the majority of its survivability, isn't an issue with Regen debuffs that they are so huge that without a massive debuff resistance ammount you're going to have your regen floored? And if any +regen set were given that much debuff resistance to -regen it would be stupidly unkillable?
Also, I should note that, unlike most posters, performance against +4/x8 content is not my metric. I don't expect anything but my maxed IOed characters to perform at +4/x8 without team support, and even that level of performance I don't expect against every enemy group. I keep my metric solo more at +1/x4 for Brutes/Scrappers.
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I couldn't care less about your guide and smarmy ******* attitude buddy, I'm not going to spend forever doing incarnate trials and billions on IOs. Out of the box, 50 with standard IOs or SOs (or hell, even cheap sets), Willpower and Bio Armour outperform Regen by miles.
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Originally Posted by planet_J
Have you played /Regen lately? Maybe you should read my guide...the link is in my sig. I talk about /Regen and what it can do in there...might bring you into modern times and reality.
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"Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these. It might have been."
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Willpower also does suffer this binary nature for quite a while, yes. Either things can overcome rise to the challenge or they can't. However, with permanently higher health and higher in set resistances and defenses I've always found you have a little more breathing room to say 'I might want to consider combat jumping out of here for a sec'. Or pop an inspiration.|
Originally Posted by Sir Hextor
Oddly enough, this is my exact complaint about Willpower
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Since it comes with defense popping a purple inspiration gives you more oh crap benefit than popping a purple on a regen. The same deal with orange popping due to its resistances.
Both armor sets benefit greatly from a strong mitigation primary on SOs. All armors do, of course, but these two more than most since it buys them what they need most: time (time for rise to do its job, time for the heals to recharge, breathing room to use them).
Personally, I'd like to see extra max health added to regen's fast healing to bring it in line with willpower's health.
Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
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LOL...ok...according to lots of other people here, and myself, they don't outperform on cheap builds either...but it's whatever YOU think...right?|
Originally Posted by SiGGy
I couldn't care less about your guide and smarmy ******* attitude buddy, I'm not going to spend forever doing incarnate trials and billions on IOs. Out of the box, 50 with standard IOs or SOs (or hell, even cheap sets), Willpower and Bio Armour outperform Regen by miles.
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Couldn't be the player, had to be the powerset?
That's ok, as quickly as you've gotten snarky in this thread, you can keep playing WP...I hope you don't see the light.
Currently Playing:
Rage King - SS/Regen Brute (50+3)
Soulfire Darkness - Dark/Fire Tank (50+2)
Deaths Final Embrace - Kat/Dark Brute (50+3)
ULTIMATE REGEN GUIDE I22
As everyone can understand numbers, I'll throw some out there:
Standard IOs. No Hasten.
Regeneration:
Triple slotted Health, Fast Healing and Integration, 6 slotted Instant Healing with 3 recharge and 3 healing.
Regen without Instant Healing: 578%/32hp a second.
Regen with Instant Healing: 1576%/88hp a second.
236 seconds of downtime on Instant Healing.
Willpower:
Triple slotted Health, Fast Healing and High Pain Tolerance, 4 slotted Rise to the Challenge with 1 end-red and 4 healing.
Regen 1 foe in RttC : 578%/41hp a second.
Regen with 10 foes in RttC: 1026%/78hp a second.
No downtime on RttC.
Bio Armour:
Triple slotted Health and Inexaustable, 6 slotted Ablative Carapace, DNA Siphon and Parasitic Aura with 3 healing, 3 recharge.
Regen standard: 296%/20hp a second. (Meh)
Regen with Ablative Carapace: 560%/38hp a second.
Regen with DNA Siphon (10 targets): 760%/50hp a second.
Regen with Parasitic Aura (10 targets): 1456%/98hp a second.
Regen with Ablative Carapace and DNA Siphon: 1025%/69hp a second.
Regen with all of the above: A whopping 2185%, or 146hp a second!
Downtime on Ablative Carapace and DNA Siphon, 15 seconds. In addition, the absorption from Ablative Carapace hasn't been factored in.
Downtime on Parasitic Aura is 135 seconds.
Now, don't get me wrong, I love Regeneration as a set. My first character back in 05 was a Spines/Regen Scrapper, though he never gets played anymore as poor old Regeneration pales in comparison to nigh on every other Scrapper secondary.
Consider the above and tell me Regeneration doesn't deserve some love.
"Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these. It might have been."
Quote:
A well built regen will have perma Dull Pain at the endgame. So I don't think more health is what's needed. IF and that's a big if (really look at it |
Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
Personally, I'd like to see extra max health added to regen's fast healing to bring it in line with willpower's health.
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) Regen were to have something added to it, I would add a big +ABSORB shield to the initial click of Instant Healing. But I would remove it's enhanceable regen portion as compensation.So Instant Healing would go from:
600% Regen (non-enhanceable); 200% Regen (enhanceable); Recharge 650 sec
to
600% Regen (enhanceable); 50% Absorb (enhanceable); Recharge 600 sec
Which would be a slight nerf in its health over time in exchange for making Instant Healing a good tool to deal with burst.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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That's kind of like me doing this:|
Originally Posted by SiGGy
As everyone can understand numbers, I'll throw some out there:
... Consider the above and tell me Regeneration doesn't deserve some love. |
As everyone can understand numbers, I'll throw some out there.Regeneration is just one number among MANY numbers that define how useful a secondary may be. Are you getting hung up on the fact that the set is called "Regeneration"? Does that make you think it should clearly have the best regeneration in the game? If it were more-accurately named "the spastic clicky-clicky to survive set" would we even be having this argument? Well, that's what it's been for the vast majority of this game's history, NOT "regeneration".
Standard SOs. No Weave, Combat Jumping, etc.
Scrapper Super Reflexes:
Triple-slotted defensive powers
30.4% defense
Scrapper Shield Defense:
Triple-slotted defensive powers
21.3% defense
Consider the above and tell me that Shield Defense doesn't deserve some love.
It doesn't somehow deserve the highest regeneration in the game based on its name any more than "Shield Defense" deserves the best defense in the game based on having "defense" in the name. That's not how game balance works.
But perhaps you're not hung up on the name of the set.
Anyway, I'm not even strictly disagreeing with you. I'm not opposed to a little Regeneration love. A little, such as the oft-suggested regeneration and/or recharge debuff resistance, or even what you suggested about making Instant Healing a toggle (with a suitable drop in regeneration rate). But bringing up a single stat in a vacuum isn't a balance argument. Otherwise, every set can say "My X isn't as good as set Y's X, so I need a buff."
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Originally Posted by Werner
That's kind of like me doing this:
As everyone can understand numbers, I'll throw some out there.Regeneration is just one number among MANY numbers that define how useful a secondary may be. Are you getting hung up on the fact that the set is called "Regeneration"? Does that make you think it should clearly have the best regeneration in the game? If it were more-accurately named "the spastic clicky-clicky to survive set" would we even be having this argument? Well, that's what it's been for the vast majority of this game's history, NOT "regeneration". It doesn't somehow deserve the highest regeneration in the game based on its name any more than "Shield Defense" deserves the best defense in the game based on having "defense" in the name. That's not how game balance works. But perhaps you're not hung up on the name of the set. Anyway, I'm not even strictly disagreeing with you. I'm not opposed to a little Regeneration love. A little, such as the oft-suggested regeneration and/or recharge debuff resistance, or even what you suggested about making Instant Healing a toggle (with a suitable drop in regeneration rate). But bringing up a single stat in a vacuum isn't a balance argument. Otherwise, every set can say "My X isn't as good as set Y's X, so I need a buff." |
I can see your point.
However, I'm of the view that the power set named Regeneration should be akin to the healing-factor type Superheroes (our regen stat), just as it was around the start of the game.
Instant Healing prior to issue 5 was likely nerfed due to the amount of +regen you could rack up with no enhancement diminishing returns. Now that we're long past that, it would make sense to swap it back to its old functionality, possibly with a lower +regen value or a higher endurance cost.
"Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these. It might have been."
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Yes, understood. And I actually ragequit the game for 6 months at some point during the change from "regeneration" to "spastic clicky-clicky". I grew to love "spastic clicky-clicky" as well, but it certainly wasn't what I'd signed up for. But actually, I'm out of love with it again, even if I believe that it's objectively competitive. I think I'd personally enjoy something in between.|
Originally Posted by SiGGy
I can see your point.
However, I'm of the view that the power set named Regeneration should be akin to the healing-factor type Superheroes (our regen stat), just as it was around the start of the game. |
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Originally Posted by SiGGy
Instant Healing prior to issue 5 was likely nerfed due to the amount of +regen you could rack up with no enhancement diminishing returns. Now that we're long past that, it would make sense to swap it back to its old functionality, possibly with a lower +regen value or a higher endurance cost.
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Kinda glad to see Werner chiming in since I know he knows regen inside out. Also interesting to here him say leave it alone.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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And there's another issue with Regeneration as it stands.|
Originally Posted by Werner
But back when I really loved the clickfest, I'd have argued against it. I'm sure plenty of people love it the way it is, so it may be best for the devs to let it be. Not sure.
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If you've not poured a good billion or two into defence IOs, a bit of lag or a long power animation can easily have you eating more rug than Ron Jeremy.
"Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these. It might have been."
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Honestly, I DON'T know Regen inside and out any more. Other than an occasional fling for old time's sake, I haven't played my namesake Katana/Regen in years, and that was my ONLY Regen. I've never played Regen with Shadow Meld. I've never played Regen with Incarnate powers.|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Kinda glad to see Werner chiming in since I know he knows regen inside out. Also interesting to here him say leave it alone.
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My most recent "experience" with it was in Mids' and spreadsheets and forum discussion maybe six months ago. A number of people on the Scrapper board were really down on it at the time, and I (and several others) really felt that it had a lot more top end potential than most seemed to think. So my initial salvo was a soft-capped near perma Hasten Regen that could spend the majority of time at the Incarnate soft cap, and the community significantly improved it from there. I never built it, but at least several people adopted similar builds and reported great success. But even if that counts as experience, that was at the very top end, no expense spared, all Incarnate powers on the table. That's perhaps most relevant to what the Scrapper board tends to be interested in, but at best peripherally related to balance discussions and whether the set should be left alone, modified neutrally, or buffed.
And I'm not strictly saying that they should leave the set alone. As a dev, that's probably what I'd do, or perhaps add some regeneration and recharge debuff resistance. I probably wouldn't touch Instant Healing. But as a player, and given my current temperament, I'd personally like to see Instant Healing turned into a toggle, acknowledging that it would have to pay for that in other ways.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
I don't think it is a critical need, but would have liked to see Regen get recharge debuff resistance of some sort. Instead it got a decent level of regen debuff resistance. I don't think it needed that. I can't even remember the last time having my regen zeroed got my killed, but I can think of times in the recent past that having my recharge floored got me killed. Modern Regen depends heavily on its clicks, and having them made available at much reduced rate has a dramatic affect on its performance.
And one of the closest sets in playstyle, IMO, Fiery Aura, got some recharge resistance in Temperature Protection. (I used to skip this power, and took it after that change.) Honestly, I don't think FA has any better thematic reason to have resistance to -recharge than Regen does, so for me it all comes down to performance benefit.
That said, now that Regen got regen debuff resistance, I would be surprised if it also got recharge debuff resistance. And since I didn't think recharge debuff resistance was critical to Regen's performance, I don't feel compelled to keep talking about getting recharge debuff resists. I would still like to see it happen, but not enough to campaign for it.
One change that I think would be nice would be for Instant Healing to actually provide some up-front healing when activated, in addition to the high regen it gives now. I'm thinking Reconstruction-level heal, here, as opposed to Dull-Pain-sized. That would go a long way towards making IH able to turn around a situation that's going south, instead how you currently really need to activate it ahead of time for it to really benefit you.
If they were to reduce the fraction of IH's +regen that was unenhanceable, I wouldn't complain, but I think having it give an up-front heal would be more helpful. Of the two, I'd rather have the heal.
All that said, though, I am not going to be grumpy if Regen stays like it is.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
Well, your argument, while valid for what you compare, is skewed...|
Originally Posted by SiGGy
As everyone can understand numbers, I'll throw some out there:
Standard IOs. No Hasten. Regeneration: Triple slotted Health, Fast Healing and Integration, 6 slotted Instant Healing with 3 recharge and 3 healing. Regen without Instant Healing: 578%/32hp a second. Regen with Instant Healing: 1576%/88hp a second. 236 seconds of downtime on Instant Healing. Willpower: Triple slotted Health, Fast Healing and High Pain Tolerance, 4 slotted Rise to the Challenge with 1 end-red and 4 healing. Regen 1 foe in RttC : 578%/41hp a second. Regen with 10 foes in RttC: 1026%/78hp a second. No downtime on RttC. Bio Armour: Triple slotted Health and Inexaustable, 6 slotted Ablative Carapace, DNA Siphon and Parasitic Aura with 3 healing, 3 recharge. Regen standard: 296%/20hp a second. (Meh) Regen with Ablative Carapace: 560%/38hp a second. Regen with DNA Siphon (10 targets): 760%/50hp a second. Regen with Parasitic Aura (10 targets): 1456%/98hp a second. Regen with Ablative Carapace and DNA Siphon: 1025%/69hp a second. Regen with all of the above: A whopping 2185%, or 146hp a second! Downtime on Ablative Carapace and DNA Siphon, 15 seconds. In addition, the absorption from Ablative Carapace hasn't been factored in. Downtime on Parasitic Aura is 135 seconds. Now, don't get me wrong, I love Regeneration as a set. My first character back in 05 was a Spines/Regen Scrapper, though he never gets played anymore as poor old Regeneration pales in comparison to nigh on every other Scrapper secondary. Consider the above and tell me Regeneration doesn't deserve some love. |
Add in Reconstruction, Dull Pain, now what? Recon on SOs is 40% health every 30 seconds....Dull Pain is a Max HP boost...what about Regen with DP up and IH running? Then what if you used Reconstruction?
You can't quantify that without putting it into a spreadsheet and making up formulas and all kinds of other things...but...
Let's add in reconstruction...40% of 2200 HP (not capped as it could be, but for sake of argument)...is going to be +/- 880 HP/30 secs = 29.33 HP/sec + 32 HP/sec = 61.33 HP/sec
Now try with IH 29.33 + 88 = 117.33 HP/sec and WP= 78 HP/sec...but only surrounded by 10 foes...AND with your MAX HP buff included...but why skew it so /regen doesn't use the MAX HP buff it has?
Your numbers don't include dull pain... add that in, and who is winning?
Bio armor REQUIRES hitting 10 targets to be CLOSE to as efficient as Regen on SOs...I played Bio on beta...and I NEVER hit 10 targets...5-6 maybe...never hit 10...I played it on +1/x6 up to +2/x8 too...something tells me most others will never hit 10 either. Also, sometimes you FAIL on epic proportions to even hit anything because your to hit is debuffed to the floor. Now where's your Regen? I don't have to hit anyone to get my buff.
Currently Playing:
Rage King - SS/Regen Brute (50+3)
Soulfire Darkness - Dark/Fire Tank (50+2)
Deaths Final Embrace - Kat/Dark Brute (50+3)
ULTIMATE REGEN GUIDE I22
Quote:
Actually the thought process is to put it into the Auto power resilience based on the last discussion I had with a red name. They seemed to think that changing the set other than that would make little sense, and they could set the buff up to occur at a preset interval and last X seconds until Y timeframe is reached and absorb replenishes costing no endurance.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
A well built regen will have perma Dull Pain at the endgame. So I don't think more health is what's needed. IF and that's a big if (really look at it
) Regen were to have something added to it, I would add a big +ABSORB shield to the initial click of Instant Healing. But I would remove it's enhanceable regen portion as compensation.So Instant Healing would go from: 600% Regen (non-enhanceable); 200% Regen (enhanceable); Recharge 650 sec to 600% Regen (enhanceable); 50% Absorb (enhanceable); Recharge 600 sec Which would be a slight nerf in its health over time in exchange for making Instant Healing a good tool to deal with burst. |
I actually like the idea that way. I mentioned IH, and they are content with IH as it sits and do not want to change the clicks in anyway. They would feel in the inherent it would be "adding" to the set...not "changing" the set. After a lot of consideration, I am happier with their suggestion for it.
Of course, that was all tentative conversation, and there was no time table discussed for actually working that in, or even a full commitment to doing it that way either...so their thoughts may be completely different at this time.
Currently Playing:
Rage King - SS/Regen Brute (50+3)
Soulfire Darkness - Dark/Fire Tank (50+2)
Deaths Final Embrace - Kat/Dark Brute (50+3)
ULTIMATE REGEN GUIDE I22
Nobody does regen better than /Regen...period...Willpower can't do it...unless you don't count /Regen's clicks...but then...you shouldn't be able to count Willpower's scalar if you do that...and now you're right back at /Regen is better than /WP.
/Regen may not be for everybody, but I ran some Itrials last night, and my SS/Regen Brute 50+3 outsurvived a 50+3 WP tank....explain to me where /Regen is weak again?
Just saying...
The set isn't the worst that I have played- but I have been in enough heavy burst damage situations in heavy lag and been one or two seconds too late on a heal to realize that it isn't the set for me.
I suppose I could have used different words in my initial post, but I do think that something could stand to be reviewed and or changed with regen. I pretty much agree with the OP that maybe putting IH back to a toggle is a good place to start.
Is it my opinion? Sure. You have yours and I have mine. Not fact. Just my experience.
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality